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Mr Luxury Yacht posted:Yeah I have no idea where the whole "immunocompromised people can't get COVID vaccines" talking point came from considering the recommendation has consistently been for them to get an early booster shot of the vaccine. To be super pedantic, there's timing concerns with cancer patients, but that's less "can't get the vaccine" and more "might have to pause treatment for a bit"
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Jan 8, 2022 19:19
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enki42 posted:Immunocompromised people can almost always get vaccinated, it just doesn't do all that much. They generally can't have live virus vaccines, but I don't think any of the COVID vaccines are live virus ones (certainly not anything you can get in Canada). Yeah true, I think I was mixing that up with the small populations who can't get the mRNA vaccines because they're allergic to some of the vaccine ingredients (e: and as you note above, some cancer patients). I think the point still stands though considering the ongoing risks of breakthrough infections in immunocompromised people, but you're right that I was probably thinking of a larger population that can't get vaccinated than is actually out there.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:23
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Goddamn it 2022. I hate you so loving much.CBC News posted:Alcohol has been classified as a Group 1 carcinogen (carcinogenic to humans) for decades by the International Agency for Research on Cancer (IARC). It's right up there with tobacco and asbestos. Alcohol is also a top cause of preventable cancer after smoking and obesity. https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/alcohol-warning-labels-cancer-1.6304816
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Jan 8, 2022 19:24
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:Goddamn it 2022. I hate you so loving much. Who cares? Put a warning label on it, put a gross picture of a fat alcoholic or a diseased liver like they do for cigarette packs, go plain packaging, it will not change anyone's behaviour or affect anyone in any way. We all know that smoking and drinking are addictive and dangerous.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:30
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infernal machines posted:Arivia's posted about it a number of times, but not recently. IIRC she mentioned some remaining issues with the language of the bill, but I don't know if those were addressed before it was passed.  No it’s still pretty bad. The Liberals used it as a political football for multiple elections and actually helping people suffered for it. The significant issues in the final version just got ignored to instead facilitate passing it through Parliament at turbo speed. I hate it.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:33
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Jordan7hm posted:Hoping for the death of people in general is really hosed up. I dont want anyone to die, but given the choice between a petulant anti-vaxxer and anyone else, the choice is pretty easy tbh. Like, it really doesn't sit well with me that people might die as a result of anti-vaxxers taking up hospital beds they would not have, had they vaccinated. That's also ignoring the ripple effect the system being overloaded has for people with non-critical stuff. Like how many people might end up not seeing a doc and having something caught early?
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Jan 8, 2022 19:34
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PT6A posted:Who cares? According to that article, this appears not to be true. quote:In 2017, public health researchers and the Yukon government agreed to test cancer warning labels on all alcohol containers in the government-owned liquor store in Whitehorse. But less than a month after the cancer labels were put on, they were taken off under pressure from the alcohol industry.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:36
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If we're honest the number of people with legit medical reasons to not get the vaccine is pretty drat small, especially as we have 4 approved vaccines with different ingredients and poo poo. I'd make it mandatory for children and let adults choose between permanent quarantine or getting jabbed, with exemptions decided by a panel of impartial physicians or something.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:37
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vyelkin posted:According to that article, this appears not to be true. I guess then we should err on the side of caution and do it. I know drinking and smoking are bad for me when I do them, I don't think I would choose to do either one less if the packaging were different. I don't think I would get upset about packaging being changed. The only issue with going to plain packaging outright is that it could affect small-market imports who don't want to deal with the bullshit.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:41
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The main shocker for me is it's classified in the same carcinogen group as asbestos and tobacco. Like, how is this not more widely known.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:46
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The bit I haven't seen evidence of is where the drop in sales comes from - when cigarettes/alcohol are in plain/gross packaging, who buys less? Do heavy users moderate their use, do people not start, etc. Saying there's a 7% drop in sales doesn't necessarily reduce the actual negative outcomes that much. If it means Jim the alcoholic is drinking less that's great, if John drinks 1 beer a week instead of 2 that probably makes no difference.mom and dad fight a lot posted:Th main shocker for me is it's classified in the same carcinogen group as asbestos and tobacco. Like, how is this not more widely known. Trapick fucked around with this message at 19:49 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 19:46
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Drewjitsu posted:1) Do we need a thread title change? I appreciated: Rust Martialis posted:pure loon Drewjitsu posted:2) We need to clean up the OP. If you want to help, that would be great! It's missing a couple of Green Party leaders for sure, but it could probably stand to be condensed a bit too.
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Jan 8, 2022 19:52
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Trapick posted:I think this is the same as meat, where "group 1" just means "we are absolutely certain this raises the risk of cancer" but doesn't speak to how much of an increase it actually is. So it doesn't mean it's as dangerous or anything. Ah, okay, you're absolutely right. The article does go on to say that it's a top cause of preventable cancer, but I wonder if that's because consumption has been so normalized. Either way, learnin' a lot!
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Jan 8, 2022 20:03
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PT6A posted:Who cares? Targeted and persistent attempts to get peoppe to reduce or quit smoking have been pretty successful over the last couple decades
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Jan 8, 2022 20:08
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PT6A posted:Who cares? I already got doxxed by the thread once, please don't put my picture of a bottle of loving smirnoff
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Jan 8, 2022 20:10
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terrorist ambulance posted:Targeted and persistent attempts to get peoppe to reduce or quit smoking have been pretty successful over the last couple decades Yeah, you're right. It's probably the photos/warnings/plain packs and not the ever-increasing price, restrictions on use and advertising, the slow phase-out of the depiction of smoking in media, and general social unacceptability of smoking. There are tools we can use to reduce rates of alcohol use, I'm just saying that warning labels are probably not number one on the list. Consider that it's quite normal for employers to actively provide alcohol during social events, it's incredibly common to see alcohol advertised pretty much everywhere, and alcohol use as a way to relieve stress is very commonly depicted in media, with problem drinking behaviour often being a punchline. We have bigger problems with our societal relationship to alcohol than a small warning label can fix.
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Jan 8, 2022 20:21
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Just put a picture of Ralph Klein on every bottle. 
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Jan 8, 2022 20:28
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Powershift posted:Just put a picture of Ralph Klein on every bottle. Dumb Albertans fuckin love Ralph, please don't!
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Jan 8, 2022 20:49
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I feel like buying people alcohol as a gift would drop off a lot if there’s a picture of a nasty tumour on a bottle of wine. “Happy housewarming, this will help you die!”
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Jan 8, 2022 20:57
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It seems to me it would be possible to just have slap-on stickers for imported liquor. They already do it for localized labels and nutrition facts on food.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:04
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Cease to Hope posted:It seems to me it would be possible to just have slap-on stickers for imported liquor. They already do it for localized labels and nutrition facts on food. Yeah, of course. Or country-specific labels, which wouldn't be a problem. I was talking about if they went all the way to standardized plain packaging, like they did with tobacco. Because apparently having slide-packs makes people like tobacco less than flip-tops.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:07
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January 4, 1973  
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Jan 8, 2022 21:37
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infernal machines posted:I can't speak for anyone else, but I didn't doubt that the image was of a forecast that exists. I was expressing skepticism about the accuracy of the forecast, based solely on the last two years of similarly dire forecasts that have presented scenarios that haven't quite come to pass. Same, I assumed it was legit and just didn't see the point. If Alberta Health was all "our forecast says no problems here" then yeah show them lying about their own forecast. Otherwise what's the story? "Alberta ignores covid pandemic warning signs" is an evergreen headline. I similarly don't get people leaking official covid numbers ten minutes before they're released. If the government’s juking stats then yeah raise the alarm, but when it's literally the same numbers? vyelkin posted:In addition to being fed up with them, I feel sorry for antivaxxers because I think they have been legitimately let down by some combination of our substandard education system and probably bad parenting, and our governments' indifference and lies. Let's not pretend we're doing a great job and there's any reason to trust the people running this clown show. In theory we could maintain enough hospital capacity to handle x% of the country remaining fully vulnerable to severe covid. Anti-vaxxers aren't preventing us from having adequate healthcare. What was the tweet I saw the other day, something about how eradicating cholera meant building sewers and water treatment facilities everywhere. Where's our covid infrastructure push? Like yeah, keep asking the anti-vaxxers in your life when they're gonna get their shots, a lot of them will come around. But as a bloc they're nowhere near our main problem.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:58
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mom and dad fight a lot posted:The main shocker for me is it's classified in the same carcinogen group as asbestos and tobacco. Like, how is this not more widely known. quote:But less than a month after the cancer labels were put on, they were taken off under pressure from the alcohol industry. I wonder.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:05
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In other news the Alberta MLA NDP finance critic wants the private sector to figure out a solution to high energy prices https://twitter.com/sphillipsab/status/1479543367121915907?s=21
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Jan 8, 2022 22:07
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pokeyman posted:and our governments' indifference and lies. Let's not pretend we're doing a great job and there's any reason to trust the people running this clown show. Absolutely. According to this source, hospital beds in Canada decreased from 6.9 per 1,000 people in 1976 to 2.5 per 1,000 people in 2019. We've hollowed out our public services and then acted shocked when our public services are overwhelmed by a crisis.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:10
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pokeyman posted:Same, I assumed it was legit and just didn't see the point. If Alberta Health was all "our forecast says no problems here" then yeah show them lying about their own forecast. Otherwise what's the story? "Alberta ignores covid pandemic warning signs" is an evergreen headline. When they were leaking numbers, it wasn't "ten minutes before they were released" it was "several days before they were released, because Dr. Hinshaw just works so gosh darn hard spinning lies that she needed time off for Christmas and New Years" and yeah I think that's a problem as the Omicron wave was really starting to take off. Likewise, it's important for the public to know they have this model, because they are most certainly acting as if they don't, given their steadfast refusal to do a single loving thing. I mean, maybe in NS where your province isn't run by the legitimate dumbest loving people on earth, you can take it on faith that they'll act in a stupid but ultimately slightly sane way; not so in Alberta, I promise. Leaking this model led AHS to confirm it, and CBC to push it and now people have a much better idea of the assumptions the government is making. I think that's valuable, personally.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:26
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Arivia posted:
Ah, sorry, that sucks out loud. It's not surprising, but it's always disappointing.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:51
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PT6A posted:When they were leaking numbers, it wasn't "ten minutes before they were released" it was "several days before they were released, because Dr. Hinshaw just works so gosh darn hard spinning lies that she needed time off for Christmas and New Years" and yeah I think that's a problem as the Omicron wave was really starting to take off. That's a fair leak if they're sitting on useful info for days. It's the 30min head start that seems useless. quote:Likewise, it's important for the public to know they have this model, because they are most certainly acting as if they don't, given their steadfast refusal to do a single loving thing. I mean, maybe in NS where your province isn't run by the legitimate dumbest loving people on earth, you can take it on faith that they'll act in a stupid but ultimately slightly sane way; not so in Alberta, I promise. Two years in to the pandemic, I don't see why it matters if AHS is heeding or ignoring internal modelling when making baffling decisions. I'm with you, we have more than enough evidence to assume they'll make a bad choice.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:00
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I keep seeing "learning to live with it" articles, but like okay? We still need to curb things as to not back up the hospital's with covid cases and the domino effect that has, but everything seems to imply that learning to live with it will somehow work out okay. Without acknowledging the reason why restrictions are actually necessary, it's just people crying over "normal". Also on immunocompromised, my sister takes immune suppression medications and was told her vaccines likely didn't do much, she still got them all, but because of her meds it's negligible at best.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:03
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pokeyman posted:Two years in to the pandemic, I don't see why it matters if AHS is heeding or ignoring internal modelling when making baffling decisions. I'm with you, we have more than enough evidence to assume they'll make a bad choice. I guess. I mean, I don't think you need to be super bright to predict that they'll do some dumb poo poo at this point, regardless of what data they're looking at, but it is/will later be helpful if we can say "look, they admitted they had a model showing X as of a certain date, and they still did Y-stupid-thing." Maybe. I hope.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:04
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Syfe posted:I keep seeing "learning to live with it" articles, but like okay? We still need to curb things as to not back up the hospital's with covid cases and the domino effect that has, but everything seems to imply that learning to live with it will somehow work out okay. Without acknowledging the reason why restrictions are actually necessary, it's just people crying over "normal". Learning to live with it is basically saying "it's cool if people with complex health conditions die, and also you can't be very certain of receiving medical care if you need it but, gently caress it, YOLO Cancun here were come, bitches!"
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Jan 8, 2022 23:05
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PT6A posted:but it is/will later be helpful if we can say "look, they admitted they had a model showing X as of a certain date, and they still did Y-stupid-thing." Maybe. I hope. When's your next provincial election? Ours is the beginning of June. I'll let you know how it goes.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:08
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infernal machines posted:When's your next provincial election? Ours is the beginning of June. 2023... 
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Jan 8, 2022 23:11
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Cool, well you get to watch in horror as Ontario's election unfolds, knowing what awaits you next year and exactly how much two solid years of demonstrable, preventable fuckups matter to the voting populous. It'll be fun.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:15
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On the plus side, we don't really have any divisions on the anti-UCP side of things, and some cracks forming in the right-wing coalition, so... we have that small thing going for us.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:23
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Here's hoping. Here, the ONDP is the exact same ONDP that has been the perennial third choice* since the mid-90s, and the OLP has a relative non-entity who doesn't even hold a seat as leader. I expect the OLP to regain a number of their seats, entirely at the expense of the ONDP. I have no idea if Ford pissing off literally everyone in the province for two solid years is enough to actually cost them the government. I strongly suspect it isn't. *second choice in 2018, by virtue of the OLP collapsing to the point that they're no longer an official party. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 23:34 on Jan 8, 2022 |
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Jan 8, 2022 23:31
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infernal machines posted:Cool, well you get to watch in horror as Ontario's election unfolds, knowing what awaits you next year and exactly how much two solid years of demonstrable, preventable fuckups matter to the voting populous. There are few parallels. Ford has a 47% approval rating for handling the pandemic, Kenney has 20%. The Ontario PCs are leading in their polls, the UCP are down by 20 points Doug Ford is expected to win and it will be sad but expected when he does. The UCP are expected to lose badly and it will be crushing when they win. Kenney's government has done unforgivable things to almost every demographic in Alberta. If they can turn that around into a second majority government, the province is lost. It will be difficult enough as-is recovering from the damage they've already caused in only 3 years.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:33
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How is horwath still leader after the shambles of the last election
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Jan 9, 2022 00:31
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It was literally the best showing of her entire career and the ONDP in general since 1990. That's the high-water mark here.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:34
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