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KingKalamari posted:Perhaps not the most accurate word choice, but I think it's a little presumptuous to come into a game someone else is running and try to get them to switch to a different system. sasha_d3ath posted:A friend of mine is trying *really* hard to start an Eclipse Phase campaign and this conversation just backs up my decision to not want to play :B If they are getting bites and are just having scheduling issues or something or they are getting bites and sasha just isn't or of then then yeah that's obviously different.
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Jan 7, 2022 14:45
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Splicer posted:To me this reads as them not getting any bites. I admit to finding the fishing metaphor a bit.. strange.
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Jan 7, 2022 18:14
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hyphz posted:I admit to finding the fishing metaphor a bit.. strange.
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Jan 7, 2022 19:39
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Nessus posted:This may just be regional slang, the idea is that you're putting out something attractive to see if it gets attention. It sounds like Eclipse Phase is not getting that attention, but the hypothetical DM here seems to really like the idea. Oh, I know it's slang, but the thing is that in fishing the attractive thing is also a trap. It's always seemed that instead of getting bites, the fish should be jumping out.
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Jan 7, 2022 20:00
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Now I feel bad about fishing for compliments. 
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Jan 7, 2022 20:23
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The real fun one is that trolling was originally trawling.
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Jan 7, 2022 22:16
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Nessus posted:The real fun one is that trolling was originally trawling. Nope, they’re two different fishing techniques: http://www.marinersguide.info/blog/why-do-i-need-to-know-the-difference-between-trawling-trolling-i-dont-fish
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Jan 7, 2022 22:34
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yea it's trolling because you're tossing out a lot of bait and just waiting for bites, trawling is the one with the nets
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Jan 7, 2022 23:43
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Going back to running my weekly game online tonight after a few glorious in-person months and not looking forward to it at all.
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Jan 8, 2022 00:53
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DressCodeBlue posted:Going back to running my weekly game online tonight after a few glorious in-person months and not looking forward to it at all.
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Jan 8, 2022 06:59
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hyphz posted:Oh, I know it's slang, but the thing is that in fishing the attractive thing is also a trap.
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Jan 8, 2022 17:33
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hyphz posted:Oh, I know it's slang, but the thing is that in fishing the attractive thing is also a trap. It's always seemed that instead of getting bites, the fish should be jumping out. The slang is usually considering things from the fisher's perspective, not the fish's.
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Jan 8, 2022 18:48
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Warthur posted:The slang is usually considering things from the fisher's perspective, not the fish's. Exactly? The fisher is aware they're trying to trick the fish into trying to do something they don't really want to do? I hope that's not what GMs are thinking.
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Jan 8, 2022 21:56
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yeah I hope that crazy thing isn't true either
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Jan 8, 2022 22:20
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It’s a perfectly normal idiom and I’ve never heard of it being meant or taken maliciously. No more so than like “house on fire” or “the cat’s out of the bag” or any other one that has a less than cozy compositional meaning. Like in my English, it’d be totally normal to say one isn’t getting any bites about distributing presents or something (because no one is around to collect them). But hey at least it’s at least a slightly icky one that’s getting a reaction instead of people worrying about “call a spade a spade” or whatever.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:21
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give a man a fish, they will eat for a day give a man a fishing metaphor, they won't shut up
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Jan 8, 2022 22:25
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I'm pretty sure there's at least one study that shows if you give a man a fish, he'll spend the time he doesn't have to spend worrying about his next meal to do something really interesting.
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Jan 8, 2022 22:48
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It originates from VtM. Successful storyteller pitches would result in applications, which would obviously include backstories containing the character's embrace. An unsuccessful storyteller pitch would receive no such backstories and as such "get no bites".
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Jan 8, 2022 22:57
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I always assumed that metaphor was what the phrase "plot hook" was referencing in sandbox games, so I never really associated it with trickery, even if the original activity is.
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Jan 8, 2022 23:18
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What's the closest game to Burning Wheel (that isn't a BW derivative like Torchbearer). If I want to play an epic crunchy-and-narrative game, am I stuck playing something with a very defined scope like Ars or Pendragon? Splicer posted:It originates from VtM. Successful storyteller pitches would result in applications, which would obviously include backstories containing the character's embrace. An unsuccessful storyteller pitch would receive no such backstories and as such "get no bites". 
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Jan 8, 2022 23:20
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Give me a fish, and maybe I'll manage to cook it I don't know. Give me a cat, and I will melt into baby talk. 
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Jan 9, 2022 00:04
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Farg posted:yeah I hope that crazy thing isn't true either It's just another thing that ties into the weird social position of the GM, where they're expected to facilitate the activity but also create the desire for it as well in order to facilitate it. It's like being a wedding planner except you also have to get the couple together and convince them to get married so that the wedding happens to plan it.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:31
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hyphz posted:It's just another thing that ties into the weird social position of the GM, where they're expected to facilitate the activity but also create the desire for it as well in order to facilitate it. It's like being a wedding planner except you also have to get the couple together and convince them to get married so that the wedding happens to plan it. It's hard to match the enthusiasm of the one who read the book.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:34
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Give me a fish, and maybe I'll manage to cook it I don't know.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:36
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Splicer posted:With a fish you can obtain a cat. There aren't just cats walking around this area, alas. I guess I could try to entice some crows.
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Jan 9, 2022 00:40
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Absurd Alhazred posted:There aren't just cats walking around this area, alas. the cats of the sky
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Jan 9, 2022 02:07
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Coolness Averted posted:the cats of the sky I try to treat them that way, but they're not really responsive.
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Jan 9, 2022 02:23
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ninjoatse.cx posted:It's hard to match the enthusiasm of the one who read the book. Which begs the question, "Why don't people read books to play?"
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Jan 9, 2022 03:20
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I hear you can train a crow to find things for you, which is cute and terrifying in equal measure. To make this vaguely TG related, the only part of Pathfinder I really liked were the nosoi, which were crow/raven psychopomps that generally handled the bureaucracy of the land of the dead (they could use writing implements without penalty despite not having hands) and all wore cute little masks. They also could be bribed to do things for you with food or information, and you could take one as a familiar. Totally sad I didn't get to play in a game where I could hang out with a scribe bird friend, even if I'm not into PF as a system.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:01
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hyphz posted:Which begs the question, "Why don't people read books to play?" I don't see many scenarios where everyone has already read the book and is familiar with the game we haven't played before I start recruiting for it and drumming up interest.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:21
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There are modules like Hot Spring Island that have a separate player-facing resource and a GM resource.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:27
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hyphz posted:Which begs the question, "Why don't people read books to play?" It occurs to me that there's something of a prisoner's dilemma. If a GM says to me and three other people, "If you all read Exciting Game Book, we can play it and I'll run it! Fun!" Then: If I read the book, but nobody else does, then:
Of course, as in the classic prisoner's dilemma, the one where all the prisoners are faithful to their agreement, it's the best of the six outcomes for all of us. So it's still the one we should pick. Also I cheated a bit, because in the very first option (I read the book, one or more other players don't, and we play anyway) I probably have a better time - less confusion, etc., and maybe I can help the GM teach the game to the other players. I also didn't include the negative social pressure if I'm the only one who didn't read the book, and that's why we don't play: everyone's mad at me for spoiling the fun. So the truth is that this is not really how things work, and probably most people don't read the book just because they were busy, never really felt like doing it, meant to but didn't get around to it, or just weren't as excited about it as the GM was. Still, there may be a kernel of truth in there anyway, about incentives and the power of social inertia.
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Jan 9, 2022 04:49
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I don't expect my players to read the rules before the first session , because that's a high cost to changing systems, but I gate a lot of advanced options behind reading the rules.
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Jan 9, 2022 05:14
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Generally when I want to run a game I ask around to see if there's any interest or I just post a recruitment thread. I assume that people have read the parts of the book that are relevant to them. It's worked out so far.
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Jan 9, 2022 05:33
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In every group I've ever been in, it's one person who owns or has read the book, and then explains to the other players how it differs from D&D and what you can do in it and how. People in this thread/forum are a very self selected group of people super into TTRPGs and running them. Some of my players are there because they're friends with other people at the table, or they used to play a different game/edition in college, but they just want a social activity to do after work.
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Jan 9, 2022 06:12
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It just struck me that perennially, when we’re talking about indie systems, it’s always complaints about “finding people to play”, not “finding people to run”. My FLGS is starting an RPG weekly meet in the new year, and their system choice was “DnD, Pathfinder, or any other system provided it is requested by players not in an established group” (and it’s not just a stock thing, they stock quite a few indie RPGs, in fact I bought a print SCRPG while I was there to help them recover from lockdown. Did have to explain to the visiting friend I was with that I probably wouldn’t have an answer to “tell me how that game goes” though) It also seems that the dynamic of RPG groups seems to be healthier when the GM can be a pure facilitator instead of a leader. It also seems that GMing DND and PF2e especially can very easily become mechanistic and less enjoyable. So why do games have this? Obviously you can say, it’s because DnD is better known, but even in groups where indies are better known it’s very rare to see GM recruitment.
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Jan 9, 2022 06:12
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hyphz posted:It just struck me that perennially, when we’re talking about indie systems, it’s always complaints about “finding people to play”, not “finding people to run”. I personally find exactly the opposite in every system, indie or otherwise. It's always getting someone able to run more than a few sessions. (Not even willing, able.) My group has people that step up to the plate, but none of us have managed a long-runner in a while, including me (for numerous reasons, including the recent question(s) in this thread...). Hoping this Apocalypse World game changes things and can manage to last a while.
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Jan 9, 2022 06:28
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Gort posted:Turns out there are some good ones here and some not so good ones I like Papsikel's stuff, https://www.myminifactory.com/users/Papsikels They do cyberpunk (including some Shadowrun), not-Xenomorphs, not-Predators, not-Starship Troopers, and other. The poor bastards had a really good looking not-Dune line in preview, buuuut they got C&D. Too bad, not-Duncan looked exactly like Jason Momoa. They will occasionally do a xenomorph or Predator with tits, but on the whole their stuff is non-skeevy and prints out super sharp. mllaneza fucked around with this message at 07:13 on Jan 9, 2022 |
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Jan 9, 2022 07:09
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hyphz posted:It just struck me that perennially, when we’re talking about indie systems, it’s always complaints about “finding people to play”, not “finding people to run”. Groups start with D&D or something like it because it's the most popular, people want to see what it's like, and it's the kind of game that encourages you to play it for months or years and spend lots of money investing on supplements and accessories. If you have an established gaming group, it's because someone's already volunteered to be the GM. The GM is usually the initiator, pulling in friends, family, coworkers, and other people linked to them to play. Then the GM is the one with the most experience GMing whenever the topic of a new game comes up, while it's less common for someone else to volunteer. If a new game comes up, then you deal with the cycle of starting anew, with the GM leading players through the rules, some of whom may have read stuff or not, until everyone gets a good idea of what's going on. Some people don't want to deal with that learning bump, so they stick to what they know. These all are just statistically common overlapping realities. Things can vary, and I agree with ninjoatse.cx, that discussion here on this particular forum is going to have specific biases in what people want. People here usually have GMed or are open to GMing in addition to playing. That's a big scary thing to a lot of people. We talk about neat non-D&D games that have come out across the span of decades. People get excited and want to try them out. Most people playing TTRPGs aren't in that deep. The Board Game thread has similar problems with getting people to try new board games, getting to play specific ones they like, or having to hold their noses and play Munchkin or Cards Against Humanity depending on what their local friends will tolerate.
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Jan 9, 2022 07:14
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CitizenKeen posted:I don't expect my players to read the rules before the first session , because that's a high cost to changing systems, but I gate a lot of advanced options behind reading the rules. Personally I always write up a "quickstart" sheet if it's not a system everyone's already very familiar with, to ensure that everyone knows how chargen works and how the basics of the system function. It means no one has to read the full book if they don't want to, overcomes the issue where a lot of RPG books have incredibly lovely layout even if the content hidden in the labyrinth is good and also works as a quick reference sheet for myself.
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Jan 9, 2022 07:46
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