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The Mash
Feb 17, 2007

You have to say I can open my presents
Yeah I think the second one is the winner because I distinctly remember them being real stupid.

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HelixFox
Dec 20, 2004

Heed the words of this ancient spirit.
I want to cast The Coin of Venom

imagine dungeons
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.
Could the Cleric cast Guidance on me? I really need advantage on Seduce Canine.

neonchameleon
Nov 14, 2012



CobiWann posted:

What do you think the weakest pact is? Undying?

I had an Undying Warlock for several months in my latest campaign and when the Ravenloft book came out it was a race between myself and my DM to see who could suggest to the other that I switch to an Undead Warlock first.

Undying is definitely the weakest warlock pact and as far as I'm concerned is as obsolete as the PHB Beastmaster.

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

neonchameleon posted:

Undying is definitely the weakest warlock pact and as far as I'm concerned is as obsolete as the PHB Beastmaster.
Yeah pretty much, many people think that the undead patron is the replacement of the undying, they just forget to tell us to ignore the undying.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

HelixFox posted:

I want to cast The Coin of Venom

As DM I am fine with any of these spells existing except Seduce Canine

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Morally Inept's DM spotted.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




FFT posted:

Wisdom affects your armor class and the save DCs for your ki effects (like stunning strike).
16 CON is fine unless you're the only front-liner.
The Weapon Master feat is pretty bad for a monk, as those extra weapons you're proficient in won't count as monk weapons.

Ok. Been thinking a lot about this. I'm one of two melee characters, the other's a dual wielding fighter. We're accompanied by a wizard, druid (of land), and a Warlock (hexblade I think?). We also have a cleric who is playing full pacifist, but I'm confident they'll be keeping us alive pretty much with zero problem

So yeah, 16 CON will do and Crusher will allow for great Ki economy or for me to take the dodge action instead and stay even more alive. By level 12 I can at least max DEX and get Crusher, or just Dex at 18 Wisdom at 17, get Crusher, and then at lvl 12 take telepathic for WIS 18.

It won't affect my AC in any different way, though I'll never get up to 20 until my final level up but as I have some bracers which give me +2 AC already I'm not hurting for AC really.

Is it better prioritize damage, considering how many extra attacks monks get that +1 would up fast, or to bolster that saving DC? That seems to get it's juice from Proficiency bonus so it feels less crucial tbh.

I feel like I just talked myself into maxing Dex by 12 and then just working on Wisdom the rest of the way through while fitting in Telepathic somewhere along the line.

TheDemon
Dec 11, 2006

...on the plus side I'm feeling much more angry now than I expected so this totally helps me get in character.

This one is so good. Highlights from just one button press:
Control Thawing
Evil Sound Circle
Ghostly Illusion of Negate Metal
Ogre's Lineage
Ritual of Summon Cruel Lady
The One Hundred Evocations of Monk Seduction

Pussy Quipped
Jan 29, 2009

100YrsofAttitude posted:

Ok. Been thinking a lot about this. I'm one of two melee characters, the other's a dual wielding fighter. We're accompanied by a wizard, druid (of land), and a Warlock (hexblade I think?). We also have a cleric who is playing full pacifist, but I'm confident they'll be keeping us alive pretty much with zero problem

So yeah, 16 CON will do and Crusher will allow for great Ki economy or for me to take the dodge action instead and stay even more alive. By level 12 I can at least max DEX and get Crusher, or just Dex at 18 Wisdom at 17, get Crusher, and then at lvl 12 take telepathic for WIS 18.

It won't affect my AC in any different way, though I'll never get up to 20 until my final level up but as I have some bracers which give me +2 AC already I'm not hurting for AC really.

Is it better prioritize damage, considering how many extra attacks monks get that +1 would up fast, or to bolster that saving DC? That seems to get it's juice from Proficiency bonus so it feels less crucial tbh.

I feel like I just talked myself into maxing Dex by 12 and then just working on Wisdom the rest of the way through while fitting in Telepathic somewhere along the line.

How confident are you your game will make it past level 12?

stringless
Dec 28, 2005

keyboard ⌨️​ :clint: cowboy

As the DM of a group at level 9 that includes a monk with WIS 18 (DC 16) I can assure you that he regularly shuts down single targets

It's kinda frustrating.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




Pussy Quipped posted:

How confident are you your game will make it past level 12?

You gotta be optimistic. Frankly we’ve managed a 4 hour game every other Saturday since September. I’m going to believe it will go for the long haul.

Government Handjob
Nov 1, 2004

Gudbrandsglasnost
College Slice
Coming up on level 7 in Frostmaiden with my hexblade warlock and I'm unsure what invocation to pick.

I've got agonizing blast, devil's sight and maddening hex.

I'm torn between some of the 'at wills' like Detect Magic or Disguise Self, but reading all text seems cool and fits my character concept (adopted son of an adventuring party, speaks seven languages) and would save me the use of a spell slot for comprehend languages, though it is pretty situational.

Relentless Hex also looks pretty good for when helping our front liners get advantage, or maybe catching up to fleeing targets, but I'm better at ranged with my improved Eldritch Blast.

Finally there's Bane or Polymorph once a day using a pact slot, honestly leaning towards poly but with only two slots available before I get 'sad and tired' I don't know how much use I would get from either of these. On the other hand polymorph could be fuckin' clutch at times so perhaps this is what I'll end up picking.

We're still a session or three away from leveling up (I'm guessing) so I've got time to ponder these orbs and wouldn't mind some input.

100YrsofAttitude
Apr 29, 2013




FFT posted:

As the DM of a group at level 9 that includes a monk with WIS 18 (DC 16) I can assure you that he regularly shuts down single targets

It's kinda frustrating.

Hm. I'll keep that in mind. I wouldn't want it to be frustrating for anyone, but that does seem useful. We'll see. I personally really like the scouting and stealthy communication options offered by telepathy and it works well enough for what I'm trying to build, so I could hit 18 WIS by 12. To be seen.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy

Government Handjob posted:

Coming up on level 7 in Frostmaiden with my hexblade warlock and I'm unsure what invocation to pick.

I've got agonizing blast, devil's sight and maddening hex.

I'm torn between some of the 'at wills' like Detect Magic or Disguise Self, but reading all text seems cool and fits my character concept (adopted son of an adventuring party, speaks seven languages) and would save me the use of a spell slot for comprehend languages, though it is pretty situational.

Relentless Hex also looks pretty good for when helping our front liners get advantage, or maybe catching up to fleeing targets, but I'm better at ranged with my improved Eldritch Blast.

Finally there's Bane or Polymorph once a day using a pact slot, honestly leaning towards poly but with only two slots available before I get 'sad and tired' I don't know how much use I would get from either of these. On the other hand polymorph could be fuckin' clutch at times so perhaps this is what I'll end up picking.

We're still a session or three away from leveling up (I'm guessing) so I've got time to ponder these orbs and wouldn't mind some input.

Polymorph once per day is way better than disguise self a will. A mundane disguise only costs 50 gold at most, but you can't buy wings or gills.

Stabbey_the_Clown
Sep 21, 2002

Are... are you quite sure you really want to say that?
Taco Defender
Is a Minor Illusion fixed in place where you cast it? For instance, if I use a minor illusion on my own face to make it look sickly, would that be easily discernible if I moved?

Government Handjob posted:

Coming up on level 7 in Frostmaiden with my hexblade warlock and I'm unsure what invocation to pick.

I've got agonizing blast, devil's sight and maddening hex.

I'm torn between some of the 'at wills' like Detect Magic or Disguise Self, but reading all text seems cool and fits my character concept (adopted son of an adventuring party, speaks seven languages) and would save me the use of a spell slot for comprehend languages, though it is pretty situational.

Relentless Hex also looks pretty good for when helping our front liners get advantage, or maybe catching up to fleeing targets, but I'm better at ranged with my improved Eldritch Blast.

Finally there's Bane or Polymorph once a day using a pact slot, honestly leaning towards poly but with only two slots available before I get 'sad and tired' I don't know how much use I would get from either of these. On the other hand polymorph could be fuckin' clutch at times so perhaps this is what I'll end up picking.

We're still a session or three away from leveling up (I'm guessing) so I've got time to ponder these orbs and wouldn't mind some input.

  • I asked a while ago in the thread about at-will Detect Magic, and I was told that even though at-will is faster than 10 minutes, it's probably not required as long as there was a ritual caster in the party who has Detect Magic. If there isn't one in your party, at-will Detect Magic will become much more attractive.
  • If you're torn between Disguise Self and Read All Languages, and the latter would be more fitting for your character concept, I'd go with the one which fits your character concept more. BUT how useful either of those are depends a lot on the campaign and DM, so maybe talk to the DM about that.
  • Relentless Hex probably would be good for a Hexblade, as part of the subclass concept is to be able to hold their own in melee.
  • Thief of Five Fates is probably a bad choice, as Bane isn't really that strong, and you have much, much better spells to use one of your few spell slots on.
  • Polymorph is a great spell and very flexible.


As a comparison, what I have roughly planned for my Archfey/Talisman Pact Warlock is Agonizing Blast and Misty Visions at lvl 2. At level 5, probably Eldritch Mind (either that or Repelling Blast, but since my projected spell list has a lot of Concentration stuff I should probably take that one since I won't have room for the Warcaster feat). I'd probably take Devil's Sight at level 7 since that character is a human and hence no darkvision. But I'm not sure which order to take Eldritch Mind and Devil's Sight.

I'm not sure that I actually have room to take any of the EI's which go with the Pact of the Talisman, but I only really picked that pact because none of the others fit my idea.

Stabbey_the_Clown fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Jan 8, 2022

Toplowtech
Aug 31, 2004

Stabbey_the_Clown posted:

Is a Minor Illusion fixed in place where you cast it? For instance, if I use a minor illusion on my own face to make it look sickly, would that be easily discernible if I moved?

[list][*] I asked a while ago in the thread about at-will Detect Magic, and I was told that even though at-will is faster than 10 minutes, it's probably not required as long as there was a ritual caster in the party who has Detect Magic. If there isn't one in your party, at-will Detect Magic will become much more attractive.
[*] If you're torn between Disguise Self and Read All Languages, and the latter would be more fitting for your character concept, I'd go with the one which fits your character concept more. BUT how useful either of those are depends a lot on the campaign and DM, so maybe talk to the DM about that.
Yeah comprehend language is also a ritual so your comment on detect magic as a ritual and the need to know what your team is capable to do stands for both invocation. Disguise Self at wild i really useful to make the consequence of spell like Charm fall on other people.
Also yeah minor illusion is "fixed" unless your gm thinks otherwise. Silent illusion is the first moving/animated illusion.

If you are level 7, ascendant step (levitate at will) can be useful. Remember that it works well against hostile melee--only enemies and allow you to eldritch blast them to death safe from a 20 feet height. It's level 9, my bad.
Since you are pact of the blade, thirsting blade gives you an extra attack when using your pact blade. Improved pact weapon gives you a +1 to your pact and allow you to use it as a spell casting focus so you can cast with it (and a shield).

Toplowtech fucked around with this message at 16:13 on Jan 8, 2022

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

What would be a really funny one off student npc at Strixhaven? I've been thinking of like a Nothic bound in permanent student debt because he can't stop learning, or a demilich who gets discounted senior classes or maybe an animated object that has some really difficulty way of speaking.

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Nehru the Damaja posted:

What would be a really funny one off student npc at Strixhaven? I've been thinking of like a Nothic bound in permanent student debt because he can't stop learning, or a demilich who gets discounted senior classes or maybe an animated object that has some really difficulty way of speaking.

- Troll on a scholarship
- A familiar who ran away from home to learn magic
- A golem created by one of the teachers who has gained sentience and has enrolled as a student with a really obvious disguise that no one can see through (glasses, fake mustache, dish gloves, etc)
- A genius archwizard who has to go back to school because they technically never graduated

Rythian
Dec 31, 2007

You take what comes, and the rest is void.





The Mash posted:

I've had to full on build surprise rules from scratch for the games I DM because the surprise rules in the book are a) ambiguous and b) garbage

What kind of rules did you end up going with?

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


change my name posted:

- Troll on a scholarship

From the strixhaven set:

change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Drewjitsu posted:

From the strixhaven set:



I actually used the same idea when my party did a 22 Jump Street adventure at a magic university last year so that's pretty funny that it's canon

(also too bad that this is green, I feel like it would have had way more synergy in white, especially since it has vigilance)

Hollow Talk
Feb 2, 2014

Nehru the Damaja posted:

What would be a really funny one off student npc at Strixhaven? I've been thinking of like a Nothic bound in permanent student debt because he can't stop learning, or a demilich who gets discounted senior classes or maybe an animated object that has some really difficulty way of speaking.

Not Strixhaven, but my Elven Druid in a homebrew campaign tried to wait out having to hand in assignments by hoping the professors would retire before then.

Legit Businessman
Sep 2, 2007


change my name posted:

I actually used the same idea when my party did a 22 Jump Street adventure at a magic university last year so that's pretty funny that it's canon

(also too bad that this is green, I feel like it would have had way more synergy in white, especially since it has vigilance)

I'm willing to bet the card started out as a white card, but moved to green when they could use the pun Honor Troll.

imagine dungeons
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

Drewjitsu posted:

I'm willing to bet the card started out as a white card, but moved to green when they could use the pun Honor Troll.

It was probably always a green card because Witherbloom (the green and black college) has a life gain theme going for it.

D&D: is the Strixhaven book any good? I can’t find it on D&D beyond. Was it just a physical release or am I just overlooking it?

Facebook Aunt
Oct 4, 2008

wiggle wiggle




Nehru the Damaja posted:

What would be a really funny one off student npc at Strixhaven? I've been thinking of like a Nothic bound in permanent student debt because he can't stop learning, or a demilich who gets discounted senior classes or maybe an animated object that has some really difficulty way of speaking.

Drake with a pet Drakewarden. A cunning draconic spirit that figured out he can use a ranger as an anchor to manifest physically on this plane, so he found a dumb kid to train into a ranger. Now he gets to go to school at the low low price of dragging a dumb kid around with him.

imagine dungeons
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

Nehru the Damaja posted:

What would be a really funny one off student npc at Strixhaven? I've been thinking of like a Nothic bound in permanent student debt because he can't stop learning, or a demilich who gets discounted senior classes or maybe an animated object that has some really difficulty way of speaking.

A mimic student that is a desk in a classroom. Yes, all of my suggestions are mimics.

Cthulu Carl
Apr 16, 2006

imagine dungeons posted:

A mimic student that is a desk in a classroom. Yes, all of my suggestions are mimics.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T5BpDHdUifI

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

imagine dungeons posted:

It was probably always a green card because Witherbloom (the green and black college) has a life gain theme going for it.

D&D: is the Strixhaven book any good? I can’t find it on D&D beyond. Was it just a physical release or am I just overlooking it?

It's on Beyond somewhere. I just did session 0 so I can't say much yet but people seem excited by it.

imagine dungeons
Jan 24, 2008

Like an arrow, I was only passing through.

Nehru the Damaja posted:

It's on Beyond somewhere. I just did session 0 so I can't say much yet but people seem excited by it.

Oh, it looks like I have to buy it from the website and not through the app. Weird.

DrOgreface
Jun 22, 2013

His Evil Never Sleeps

Nehru the Damaja posted:

It's on Beyond somewhere. I just did session 0 so I can't say much yet but people seem excited by it.

It has a very good looking spell called Silvery Barbs that a lot of people think can’t be allowed in games as-is.

To roughly summarize the effects:

1st-level enchantment available to Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizards
60 ft. range, verbal component, cast as a Reaction when a target succeeds on an attack/check/save
The triggering target rolls a new d20 and takes the lower of their successful d20 roll and the new d20 roll
A secondary target, which can be the caster, gets Advantage on their next attack/check/save within one minute of Silvery Barbs being cast

Nehru the Damaja
May 20, 2005

DrOgreface posted:

It has a very good looking spell called Silvery Barbs that a lot of people think can’t be allowed in games as-is.

To roughly summarize the effects:

1st-level enchantment available to Bards, Sorcerers, and Wizards
60 ft. range, verbal component, cast as a Reaction when a target succeeds on an attack/check/save
The triggering target rolls a new d20 and takes the lower of their successful d20 roll and the new d20 roll
A secondary target, which can be the caster, gets Advantage on their next attack/check/save within one minute of Silvery Barbs being cast

Silvery Barbs is busted but I don't think the Strixhaven campaign is so big and consequential that allowing it is a problem.

Just keep it out of your regular FR games, imo.

Drewjitsu posted:

From the strixhaven set:



This guy is repurposed in the official book as an Orc NPC. I'm keeping him a troll. I had a pair of troll NPCs in the Astral Plane in a homebrew campaign who, thanks to the stoppage of time, were able to grow intelligent because their brains didn't keep smoothing over through their healing capacity. So they became incredibly learned but knew if they ever set back into the material planes, they'd Flowers for Algernon.

Nehru the Damaja fucked around with this message at 08:42 on Jan 9, 2022

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

I spend probably way too much time last year putting together a 70pg compendium on kobold PCs. Because of course!

Compact Kobold Compendium

I'd appreciate the eyeballs and feedback of course, go hogwild.

Narsham
Jun 5, 2008

FFT posted:

As the DM of a group at level 9 that includes a monk with WIS 18 (DC 16) I can assure you that he regularly shuts down single targets

It's kinda frustrating.

5E doesn't value the effect enough. My class overhaul reworked monks so that they are half-casters using the DMG optional spell point system, with their points renamed "ki." An 11th level monk has 32 ki, for example, and casts spells using that ki, as well as monk abilities. All the L1 abilities stayed at 1 ki cost. I moved Stunning Strike to 9th level and made it cost 7 ki, valuing the effect as if it were a L5 spell. That's probably an overcorrection, but it's hard to figure how valuable it is to be able to repeat the effect multiple times in one turn.

Maybe the way to think about Stunning Strike is to approach it from a spellcasting perspective:

Stunning Strike
Casting Time: 1 bonus action
Range: Self
Components: S
Duration: Concentration, up to 1 round
The next time you hit a creature with a melee attack during this spell's duration, the target must make a Constitution saving throw. On a failed save, it is stunned until the end of your next turn.

What level should that spell be? Definitely higher than L1, and I think not higher than L5. But where does it fall between those extremes?

Infinite Karma
Oct 23, 2004
Good as dead





I'd call that Stunning Strike a level 2 spell. Spells like Hold Person, Suggestion, and Hypnotic Pattern can deny enemies actions/entire turns at levels 2 and 3 and last for multiple enemy turns, but with restrictions based on creature type, bring broken/resisted on attack/damage, etc. They also have extra range and don't require an attack roll on top of the save. In exchange for working on any creature and not breaking when attacked, Stunning Strike only lasts for 1 round maximum, and requires a successful melee attack on top of an unsuccessful save (which is pretty similar to a save with advantage AND shorter range). Plus being stunned, they grant advantage when their being attacked, but that's generally pretty easy to get already, and included in some of the alternative incapacitation effects.

Dexo
Aug 15, 2009

A city that was to live by night after the wilderness had passed. A city that was to forge out of steel and blood-red neon its own peculiar wilderness.
Nerfing Monks certainly is a decision.

Rutibex
Sep 9, 2001

by Fluffdaddy
I've always found D&D monks very lame, especially at high levels. A 20th level monk should be like Vegeta not Bruce Lee

Mr. Lobe
Feb 23, 2007

... Dry bones...


IMO they should be able to pull off fist of the north star style poo poo by level 11 instead of like level 17

Maybe if they were as tough as Kenshiro I'd feel different

Cephas
May 11, 2009

Humanity's real enemy is me!
Hya hya foowah!
I was reading some of the Monk subclasses and I couldn't believe how lovely they were. Things like Ascendant Dragon getting a breath attack that averages to deal like 5 damage on a target, or Astral Self's level 6 ability being "you can spend 1 ki point to get darkvision, advantage on intimidation, and can talk real loud."

it's just complete :psyduck: that the game devs could take ideas like a dragon shapeshifter or a stand user and make them so dull and half-baked. Like who decided that "you have a complete stand" should wait until level 17?

The whole ki system seems like a burden that no other class has to carry. And the fact that stunning fist, a completely bland ability that has basically no flavor connection to monks outside of legacy, is supposedly their signature ability around which the rest of their abilities are measured, is pretty unbelievable.

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change my name
Aug 27, 2007

Legends die but anime is forever.

RIP The Lost Otakus.

Astral self monk rules, sorry

Also, I was finally accepted to another Roll20 game after submitting a bunch of apps in the wake of my Frostmaiden campaign fizzling out. This one is nautical-themed and goes up to level 10, so I pitched a dex-based sea elf glory paladin. I'm only losing out on a little bit of AC but I figured there will likely be a bunch of underwater stuff that I'd have a bad time trying to navigate in heavy armor and it makes sense for the character (a clownish gladiator). Are there any good feat options I should watch out for or just go straight dex + charisma for my 2 ASIs?

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