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Kesper North posted:I too hate white savior narratives. At least they're using Maori culture as the template for the Sand People and their dances, and Temuera is a Maori trained in the haka, unlike Kevin Costner and the Lakota... Please stop calling Temuera Morrison white. The rest of your point belies it.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:04
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Just Chamber posted:This is all valid really. I just don't personally like this sort of pretty safe and probably less interesting way of portraying the character with the history he has. Lol, what history?
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Jan 10, 2022 23:05
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Doronin posted:On the flashbacks, Boba was stuck in the sarlacc and by the time he got out and earned enough respect among the Tuskens to have the option to leave, presumably, his entire safety net of his previous life was wiped out. Jabba is dead. The Empire is gone, for now. So who is he in this new order? Does he exist to serve, or be served? He's captive and cannot get to his ship, which I guess is stuck in Anchorhead, however far away that is. He also doesn't have his armor, which may or may not be necessary to flying Slave One (I legit don't know the answer to this). So he has poo poo to take care of in the short term, and the Tuskens have given him the means to survive until he gets his affairs in order. And if he can prop up a new ally in the process while learning some cool new poo poo, why not? Also, sure Boba worked for rear end in a top hat criminals and fascists but he mostly seemed to be going after other rear end in a top hat criminals and fascists for them. We the audience know him and we the audience like him but Han Solo is basically just another rear end in a top hat drug smuggler working for (and in hock to) rear end in a top hat criminal Jabba the Hutt so to Boba's mind, gently caress him if he got on the wrong side of the Empire, too. It's quite probable that his time with the Sand People is the only time he's spent any extended period around actual decent, caring people.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:09
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teagone posted:Lol, what history? Having zero issues with doing jobs for the Empire (it's Disney canon the Han job wasn't his first for them/ vader) to the point where they consider you the go to guy probably says something about the type of person you are no? Not saying he's evil but he's clearly a bit darker than most characters in this universe. Just expand on and explore that a bit more is all rather than making him feel like another Din.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:14
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fartknocker posted:It’s not. He flys the ship from wherever it was before (Presumably still on Tatooine) to Tython in The Tragedy without it to get his armor back from Din. Yeah, I think I remember one of the trailers showing him and Fennec finding it in the hangar at Jabba's palace.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:29
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mdemone posted:Please stop calling Temuera Morrison white. The rest of your point belies it. I didn't call him white. I said that this is a white savior narrative. There is a difference. In this narrative context, all humans are the equivalent of "white people" - they're part of a dominant overclass that is oppressing an out-group. The actor is not white, but in science fiction race is coded as "other species". So we have the human character Fett comes from the Human-dominated overculture of the Republic/Empire. Even if he was oppressed as a Mandalorian, his humanity codes him as a racial superior in the eyes of the most powerful government in the galaxy. Then we see the narrative still follows the same conventions as Dances with Wolves: an oppressed group of helpless, technologically inferior natives are shown to be unable to defend themselves until a person from the dominant overculture teaches that out-group how to defend itself by adopting the tools and techniques of the invaders. (You could argue that technically the Outer Rim is Hutt-dominated and both species are oppressed, but I'm not sure that really flies here given that the Hutts collaborated with the Empire). Kesper North fucked around with this message at 23:48 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 23:44
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Big Mean Jerk posted:They could come out tomorrow and say “it’s official canon that Boba only tolerated working for the Empire for the money and he’s actually always been a guy who believes in honor” and there’s nothing that would really contradict that, short of Legends bullshit. poo poo, back in the 90s, that's pretty much how it was. In those days, he picked the Empire because they were the legal government and that was about it.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:44
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Won't you guys all feel dumb when it turns out that the first sand people dude to unwrap his head turns out to just be a grunty human
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Jan 10, 2022 23:45
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Just Chamber posted:Having zero issues with doing jobs for the Empire (it's Disney canon the Han job wasn't his first for them/ vader) to the point where they consider you the go to guy probably says something about the type of person you are no? Not saying he's evil but he's clearly a bit darker than most characters in this universe. Just expand on and explore that a bit more is all rather than making him feel like another Din. Boba is his father's son, and his father lived by a simple creed. That he did work for the Empire doesn't seem character defining imo. He also blew up a guy in the first episode without hestiating; his penchant for disintegrations looks to be very much intact. [edit] spelling is hard 
teagone fucked around with this message at 23:52 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 23:47
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Sash! posted:Won't you guys all feel dumb when it turns out that the first sand people dude to unwrap his head turns out to just be a grunty human Totally 100% expecting this reveal tbh
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Jan 10, 2022 23:47
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I honestly hope they don’t ever reveal the faces under the wraps. Same with Jawas. I like the mystery behind it.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:54
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I'm just bummed Boba never called himself a "legitimate businessman" in a cliche Mafia accent, since then we'd have people really angry that we have a series about Boba Fett reinventing himself as an ordinary small business owner instead a cool crime lord or something.
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Jan 10, 2022 23:56
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He’s too sane to be a small business owner  e: what kind of conspiracy theories would a Star Wars small business owner be into? Alderaan was an inside job? 1 guy shot 2 torpedoes that blew up the Death Star? Ok  Darth Vader doesn’t exist? The empire created the rebel alliance as a propaganda scapegoat, but accidentally made it into a self-fulfilling prophecy? Icon Of Sin fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 00:00
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Kesper North posted:I didn't call him white. I said that this is a white savior narrative. There is a difference. Good post, I like it.
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Jan 11, 2022 00:12
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Holy poo poo this is a bad thread
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Jan 11, 2022 00:21
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mdemone posted:Please stop calling Temuera Morrison white. The rest of your point belies it. Hooting and Hollering. Kesper North posted:I didn't call him white. I said that this is a white savior narrative. There is a difference. There's weird coding all over this episode. Like the gleep glops bullying the plucky human couple. Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 00:31 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 00:26
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:Hooting and Hollering. Eet chuta
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Jan 11, 2022 00:28
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Holy poo poo this is a bad thread What abouuuuuuuuuuut now? https://www.tiktok.com/embed/7051296858987056431 (Boba Fett driving school montage joke)
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Jan 11, 2022 00:37
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Sash! posted:Won't you guys all feel dumb when it turns out that the first sand people dude to unwrap his head turns out to just be a grunty human It's just a whole mess of those lizards piled up.
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Jan 11, 2022 00:38
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mdemone posted:Eet chuta Hey, while you have your calipers out can you advise how the underlying ethnicity of the actors playing the Neimoidians let's them be critiqued for racism? Chef Boyardeez Nuts fucked around with this message at 00:43 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 00:40
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Holy poo poo this is a bad thread I'm having PTSD from the "discussions" about what's his name being in a slave labor camp, so obviously anyone who liked the episode, or the show itself, was in favor of slave labor. Being Native American myself I'm pretty sensitive to these tropes, and I do cringe at some of the things they show, most of it is around the seeming casual cruelty shown by the sand people. Yet historically, Native American's weren't particularly nice to their enemies. So I'm more in the camp of these stories should be told, instead of watered down or whitewashed, because we should remember our history, as lovely as it may be, because then we can see how far we've come, and how far we have left to go. But that might be too extreme a viewpoint for a place like the TV IV.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:01
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Holy poo poo this is a bad thread You must be new here.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:01
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Dingleberry2 posted:I'm having PTSD from the "discussions" about what's his name being in a slave labor camp, so obviously anyone who liked the episode, or the show itself, was in favor of slave labor. It sounds like cogent and reasonable viewpoint, so yeah, way too extreme for TV IV.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:05
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gold leader was just straight up Dutch. not even a coded stand in just a Dutch guy named Vander that's kind of weird
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Jan 11, 2022 01:11
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Owlbear Camus posted:gold leader was just straight up Dutch. He was a former stormtrooper though. 
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Jan 11, 2022 01:28
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I dunno man, the Season 1 Tusken Raiders episode was my favorite, in part because they were portrayed as clever and highly adapted to an extreme environment. I can't square that with their portrayal here.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:37
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Chef Boyardeez Nuts posted:I dunno man, the Season 1 Tusken Raiders episode was my favorite, in part because they were portrayed as clever and highly adapted to an extreme environment. I can't square that with their portrayal here. Well for starters they weren't getting shot at by an armored train full of drug runners in that episode.
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Jan 11, 2022 01:53
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Arc Hammer posted:Well for starters they weren't getting shot at by an armored train full of drug runners in that episode. Trains full of drug runners shooting at you with blasters is an infamously extreme environment to which it is difficult to adapt.
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Jan 11, 2022 02:14
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Holy poo poo this is a bad thread Every
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Jan 11, 2022 02:22
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Kesper North posted:I didn't call him white. I said that this is a white savior narrative. There is a difference. Polynesian/Maori have had the completely opposite interpretation when reviewing this episode so maybe there's a difference you're not noticing?
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Jan 11, 2022 02:50
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nine-gear crow posted:Every Nothing to be done about it, really. At least it’s not the CD Star Wars thread.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:02
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Kesper North posted:The actor is not white, but in science fiction race is coded as "other species". So we have the human character Fett comes from the Human-dominated overculture of the Republic/Empire. Even if he was oppressed as a Mandalorian, his humanity codes him as a racial superior in the eyes of the most powerful government in the galaxy. Then we see the narrative still follows the same conventions as Dances with Wolves: an oppressed group of helpless, technologically inferior natives are shown to be unable to defend themselves until a person from the dominant overculture teaches that out-group how to defend itself by adopting the tools and techniques of the invaders. Why is that last bit such a bad thing? Isn't the bigger point that the person of the dominant over-culture teaches that out-group how to defend itself? If you wanted to write some kind of alternate history of the Native Americans with them retaining their ancestral lands, you might end up with a version of Harry Turtledove's The Guns of the South Maybe The Guns of the Sioux? Much like the Spanish were to the Incas and Aztecs, the train is an "out of context" problem for the Sand People. They don't have an answer to it within their own tools and techniques - except for hide and hope it doesn't kill too many people and Banthas this time. Because if they did have an answer to it, they'd have answered it already without Boba's help. For me the main point of that part and those that followed is that Boba is brought fully into the tribe because he has contributed greatly to the well-being of the tribe. So, again, why is the nature of his contribution such an apparently bad thing?
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Jan 11, 2022 03:29
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Everyone posted:Why is that last bit such a bad thing? Isn't the bigger point that the person of the dominant over-culture teaches that out-group how to defend itself? If you wanted to write some kind of alternate history of the Native Americans with them retaining their ancestral lands, you might end up with a version of Harry Turtledove's The Guns of the South Maybe The Guns of the Sioux? I mean that's basically the point.  They are unable to do it without the outsider / white savior because they are so simple or backwards or whatever you want to call it. To use the actual episode as an example: they wanted to destroy the speeders until Boba convinced them to stop and learn how to ride them.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:55
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I figured they wanted to strip the swoop bikes for parts because they know how to salvage. They can't drive them but they can use the metal.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:58
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Myrddin_Emrys posted:Holy poo poo this is a bad thread
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Jan 11, 2022 04:02
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Arc Hammer posted:I figured they wanted to strip the swoop bikes for parts because they know how to salvage. They can't drive them but they can use the metal. That was their first instinct when Boba brought them and he had to stop them and explain that he was gonna teach them how to ride them. I assume that's what they were gonna do with the train as well since none of them have anyone whose taken the time to actually learn how this worked or had it explained to them. And for the most part, they probably didn't feel the need. Xelkelvos fucked around with this message at 04:16 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 04:13
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So that isn't luddite behavior that's seeing a use according to their lifestyle.
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Jan 11, 2022 04:22
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Icon Of Sin posted:He’s too sane to be a small business owner The Endor holocaust theory Of course there were direct and indirect references in books and RotS about the empire mounting a disinformation campaign that the Jedi were trying to overthrow the Republic. It was also referenced in TFA that nobody seemed sure if Luke was real or not. And in the Jedi Academy books there’s a high level military scientist who’s been brainwashed into thinking that the imperial superweapons she’s developed are used for benevolent purposes like mining or breaking up asteroids.
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Jan 11, 2022 04:36
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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I mean that's basically the point. You know what? There probably is a pretty cool story that revolves around the Sand People maybe luring out a Krayt Dragon or something to come destroy the train for them - a story in which outsiders like Boba Fett play no role whatsoever except to stay home and dig in sand for bug balls to refresh the thirst of the conquering Sand People tribe. Except this isn't that story. This is the Book of Boba Fett. So the stories are presumably going to revolve around on things Boba Fett did in ways that Boba Fett would do them. That said, I would absolutely be up for a "Tales of the Tusken Raiders" series at some point.
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Jan 11, 2022 04:54
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Everyone posted:Why is that last bit such a bad thing? Isn't the bigger point that the person of the dominant over-culture teaches that out-group how to defend itself? If you wanted to write some kind of alternate history of the Native Americans with them retaining their ancestral lands, you might end up with a version of Harry Turtledove's The Guns of the South Maybe The Guns of the Sioux? The general contention (and i'm just summarizing a branch of critical theory here) is that white savior narratives may on the surface appear to return identity and self-determination to native peoples, any actual appeal to those (small, marginalized) outgroups is largely accidental. This show was design for mass appeal to a primarily white audience, and white savior narratives became popular as propaganda for white people because it teaches them that the only way for other cultures to succeed is to become like them. In fact, it makes it morally obligatory for us to "help" them become more like us. Which is also called "cultural imperialism". Any empathetic person's initial instinct is to 'even the odds and give the good guys guns', but that still leaves the out-group dependent on outsiders for parts and fuel. Or, it causes them to begin raiding, as the other Sand People do (as mentioned in the episode). The assumption I'm attacking here is that guns and speeder bikes are not necessarily an inherent good, as the sudden arrival of motor transport and firearms often upset delicate balances of power among local leaders and cause further outbreaks of violence long after the initial inciting event. This production nodded to Laurence of Arabia, which is appropos, considering T. E. Lawrence wrote at some length about how the sudden arrival of firearms and motor transport completely upended the culture of the desert nomads while also rendering them more dependent on modern infrastructure. I'm not saying this is what the showrunners literally intend, this is just the semiotic payload they're delivering even as, by all appearances, they're trying very hard not to. That's what's frustrating me. They're trying hard, and they're getting pretty close, but their own grasp (or perhaps the studio's own grasp) of what a story has to be shaped like seems to be limiting them here. Or maybe something we've yet to see will address this. Their storytelling is generally pretty savvy. CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:I mean that's basically the point. yeah this Everyone posted:You know what? There probably is a pretty cool story that revolves around the Sand People maybe luring out a Krayt Dragon or something to come destroy the train for them - a story in which outsiders like Boba Fett play no role whatsoever except to stay home and dig in sand for bug balls to refresh the thirst of the conquering Sand People tribe. Except this isn't that story. This is the Book of Boba Fett. So the stories are presumably going to revolve around on things Boba Fett did in ways that Boba Fett would do them. That said, I would absolutely be up for a "Tales of the Tusken Raiders" series at some point. I think that's an awesome idea. That's actually kind of what I expected they'd do, but I'm guessing the CGI budget wasn't there. You're right, this is the Book of Boba Fett. And they had to have Boba do something. The problem is, they put this story in the wrong book. They shouldn't have involved Boba in this particular tale in the first place. If he has to be there, have it be a thing that happens around him, or have him go off and find out when the train is going to come back. Have him do something else for the Sand People - anything else, as long as it isn't showing them how to be like offworlders. This show likes to have people fight giant monsters, maybe do that again, nobody really seems to mind as long as it's a cool monster and somebody ends up covered in slime. Kesper North fucked around with this message at 05:37 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 11, 2022 05:21
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