(Thread IKs:
ZShakespeare)
|
https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1479598758786707468 I mean, gently caress these kids right? It's just a little mild diabetes. E: Two studies, one found a 30% increase the other a 260% increase.
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:Do you have evidence to back up your assertion that the elected leadership of the three societies that jointly represent all pediatricians in Ontario are speaking in opposition to the membership that elected them, or are you just inferring it because you don't like what they're saying? I'm inferring that you and every other covid-denying loving plague rat can suck the poo poo out of my rear end in a top hat. gently caress you. gently caress everyone who stands by and watches the destruction of our society and the death of the vulnerable. Also what Another Bill said.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:It's just not a substitute for the system of peer review, followed by having medical doctors making decisions based on an expert interpretation of the peer-reviewed literature. I didn't intend to suggest that it was and if that's the impression I gave, I apologize. He was not the only one presenting this exact comparison, but I'm not aware of any peer reviewed studies claiming a direct link between increased case counts in schools and increased case counts in the community, in that direction. It's a very obvious correlation to make, but I fully understand that doesn't indicate causation. infernal machines fucked around with this message at 02:24 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:17
|
|
|
Everyone I know with kids in school had covid hit the household (via their kid in school) in December so I guess it's fine to send them all back now!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:19
|
|
|
Does anyone posting in this thread have kids? e: might as well post this for some laughs  From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COVID-19_pandemic_in_Canada#By_age Count Roland fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:21
|
|
|
A few posters do, yeah.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
Pleads posted:Everyone I know with kids in school had covid hit the household (via their kid in school) in December so I guess it's fine to send them all back now! No that's a coincidence, we don't see any evidence of spread in schools, except when we do. https://twitter.com/maya_chavez_/status/1480220337207918598 Oh, but it's not severe.... except when it is https://twitter.com/greg_travis/status/1480563265369526275 EDIT: I don't want kids to suffer just because some people figured it was really important for them to learn some poo poo sitting in a classroom rather than reading at home. Are your kids lonely? Well, if you think the risk isn't worth worrying about, loving let them see their friends! I guarantee you they'll enjoy it more than doing it at school. PT6A fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:24
|
|
|
Poodlebear posted:You’re an idiot dude I’m so sorry PT6A posted:Please attach your mouth to my anus at your earliest convenience, bitch. I think you can both manage a bit more nuance than this. PT6A posted:I'm inferring that you and every other covid-denying loving plague rat can suck the poo poo out of my rear end in a top hat. ... dude, really. It was a reasonable question. You could, for example, cite prominent pediatricians who disagree with the recommendation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:25
|
|
|
I'm not aware of any pediatricians specifically, but I can cite a whole bunch of doctors in general. And: yes, I absolutely agree that schools should be the last thing closed and the first thing opened back up. I'm equally loving pissed, as I sit here on my fourth day of isolation due to COVID symptoms, trying to do the right thing, that other parts of society are just allowed to be open and continue as normal. That's far worse and dumber, absolutely!
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:31
|
|
|
UnknownMercenary posted:It certainly seems disingenuous to me to say COVID does not significantly spread via schools when the studies cited are about the wild type while we're dealing with the much more transmissable Omicron variant. Yeah, there have been similar instances of decisions to open 'er up/avoid any lockdowns (like the CDC reducing quarantine to 5 days and a lot of other countries following suit) based on what seems like assumptions that omicron's 'mildness' and virulence will just cancel out, while citing only studies based on older variants that aren't really relevant now. Count Roland posted:Does anyone posting in this thread have kids? Even if kids were completely immune to COVID symptoms, that doesn't mean they're not significantly contributing to spreading it to vulnerable people and filling up hospitals (including pediatric).
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:34
|
|
|
I think the mental health damage kids are suffering from (if they are) has more to do with the fact they're being told that even being together can be dangerous and that their parents are completely upending their lives and suffering their own mental health issues. Plus the ones old enough to understand what's going can see how little the people in charge actually care about their wellbeing. If school goes back on the 17th as planned, without a remote option, my kid will be getting a couple extra weeks of vacation.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:41
|
|
|
Is there a risk of spread amongst students? Yes. https://twitter.com/FourWinns298/status/1480661749925830657 Will this impact the ability of schools to open and deliver a quality education? So far, hmm, it sure seems so! https://twitter.com/Lauren_Global/status/1480665458806300678 https://twitter.com/TheBreakdownAB/status/1480574044609003520 https://twitter.com/TheLincoln/status/1479538804604252164 Ignoring the possibility of onward spread, are kids safe from this? Well... no. https://twitter.com/jvipondmd/status/1480678761725005824
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:42
|
|
|
diabetic children will inherit the earth and I’m all for it
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:42
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:I didn't intend to suggest that it was and if that's the impression I gave, I apologize. Yeah for sure -- I was aiming that more at the thread at large. And the thing with correlations based on a single plot is that a rigorous statistical analysis is almost certainly more complicated than that. And neither you nor I are qualified to say when it is rigorous enough to be making decisions from. Another Bill posted:https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1479598758786707468 I mean, gently caress these kids right? It's just a little mild anxiety, depression, substance abuse, eating disorder, developmental delay, and suicide. It's not a simple matter of "thing is bad". It's a matter of trained medical doctors weighing up the costs and benefits of two imperfect courses of action based on the best available evidence. That's how medicine works. eXXon posted:Even if kids were completely immune to COVID symptoms, that doesn't mean they're not significantly contributing to spreading it to vulnerable people and filling up hospitals (including pediatric). The peer-reviewed study from Scotland with 300,000 participants that I linked earlier says they are not.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:43
|
|
|
Jordan7hm posted:I think the mental health damage kids are suffering from (if they are) has more to do with the fact they're being told that even being together can be dangerous and that their parents are completely upending their lives and suffering their own mental health issues. Oh, absolutely. It's hell, and we should probably be looking at kids as "people" rather than some sort of pet we shovel off to a caretaker every day. They are concerned about what's going on too, and they are the ones being told that amidst this upheaval they still need to reach the same standards on the same timetable with shittier instruction. They are the ones who are going back and forth from online to in-person as classes get disrupted due to isolation requirements and lack of teachers, etc., etc. I think we'd all like for in-person school to be consistently available and safe. We can't do that at the moment. Wish in one hand and poo poo in the other, see which fills up first.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:46
|
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:I mean, gently caress these kids right? It's just a little mild anxiety, depression, substance abuse, eating disorder, developmental delay, and suicide. Yeah I'm sure all that will go away because they're in a school building, regardless of the pandemic. It's probably their physical location that is the problem. Also, and I can't stress this enough, suicide rates aren't going up because of the pandemic, in children or otherwise. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.07.13.21260366v1 https://globalnews.ca/news/8407059/alberta-suicide-loss/ https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/article-suicides-in-canada-fell-32-per-cent-in-first-year-of-pandemic-compared/ You are being sold a lie in the service of capital, that children need to be in school in person. It's simply not true.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:51
|
|
|
you can also just ask the kids what they think, they're all on twitter and tiktok and such https://twitter.com/KJ_King16/status/1480362572109033472?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 02:54
|
|
|
Yes but on the other hand https://twitter.com/ItsDanSheehan/status/1479601566352953345
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:00
|
|
|
PT6A posted:Yeah I'm sure all that will go away because they're in a school building, regardless of the pandemic. It's probably their physical location that is the problem. Do you have peer-reviewed sources, or even the opinion of medical experts, to back up any of what you are saying? Even that preprint says there's some evidence the child suicide rate went up during the first lockdown. Like, I also find it deeply uncomfortable that what the medical experts are saying is aligning with some of what the right-wing conspiracy theory types are saying, but if you reject medical consensus because it clashes with your preconceptions or politics, you are just as bad as the anti-vaxxers. Could we get a thread rule against citing medical opinions about COVID made by non-medical non-experts? Not sure of the best way to phrase or frame that, but it feels like it might clean up some of the discussion here.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
Lead out in cuffs posted:Do you have peer-reviewed sources, or even the opinion of medical experts, to back up any of what you are saying? Even that preprint says there's some evidence the child suicide rate went up during the first lockdown. Could we get a thread rule that this whiny piece of poo poo plague rat can go gently caress himself with a pineapple? I loving cite things, but it's not good enough for you. Eat poo poo. All I want is an end to the plague, so that we can all go on living, but apparently online school for a few months is just too big a price to pay, so I guess gently caress the people will die. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:09
|
|
|
As a kid-having goon, we can manage with online school but we're also privileged as gently caress to work in jobs that are both fully WFH and have understanding managers who allow for flexibility. (note that 'flexibility' means 'yes you can do your work at 9 PM when your kids go to bed', so hope you didn't enjoy either sleep or some semblance of a life). A lot of other parents aren't nearly as privileged, so I can totally understand the desire to get kids back to school. The thing I absolutely can't get behind is the utter lack of doing anything whatsoever to make classrooms safe, and especially completely stopping any effort at contact tracing or reporting cases in schools. Like even if kids don't have severe outcomes, some of us are high risk and making a ton of sacrifices to try to stay safe while everyone else just lets 'er rip, and not even knowing if there's an outbreak at my kids class is a giant gaping hole in any precautions I can try to take. I've seriously debated whether it's worth trying stay in the basement for the next little bit and not having contact with my family so my kids can go to school.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:11
|
|
|
PT6A posted:All I want is an end to the plague, so that we can all go on living, but apparently online school for a few months is just too big a price to pay, so I guess gently caress the people will die. You seem really spicy today my dude. I'm sorry to hear about the COVID symptoms, I hope that poo poo clears up sooner than later.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:13
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:You seem really spicy today my dude. Well, this is our life now. I don't think I have COVID, but I do have a cough and we can't get reliable tests for love or money and we have to isolate anyway. But I'm sure it's all worth it to avoid doing the bare minimum to control the spread of a dangerous, highly contagious illness.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:15
|
|
|
Yeah, that was my Christmas holiday, for exactly the same reasons. I eventually did get a couple rapid tests, but more than a week after the onset of symptoms, when it had basically cleared up. Just in time to be able to get back to work.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:17
|
|
|
Really, I don't want this to be our next year. When kids go back to school, I want it to be because it's safe and there are plenty of teachers and they don't have to worry from day to day about whether class is going to be cancelled, or if they have to isolate (and then their teacher either has to provide for them, so they can work while possibly very sick, or fall behind). Flying metaphor: I want to close the throttle, crash-land and walk away, rather than Vmc roll into the ground. We don't have really great options. But it's incumbent upon us to pick the least bad option, and that people can't see that pisses me the gently caress off.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:22
|
|
|
As a teacher in BC, here are my impressions. -The ability to test has all but completely collapsed at this point, so how can we say there is very little transmission? -People have specifically told me when trying to self report to contact tracers, when that was still happening, that no option existed for saying you believe you got it from your kid, so the data may have been cooked to begin with. -Contact tracing relied on interviews with specifically only the student (including kindergarteners) asking them and not teachers who were their close contacts. -My online teaching experience was that it was possible to get good results for children of more wealthy families who were either work from home or had a full time at home parent to support learning as basically a tutor and tech trouble shooter. They also had access to tech that made learning that way possible. -My working class students essentially disappeared as they became caregivers to younger siblings and cousins and could often only work from a borrowed parent’s phone. -My district created a middle ground limited online teaching option in Sept 2020, with no money or staffing support, thinking the pandemic was almost over anyways. This led to terrible quality education for students of families with immunocompromised parents for an entire school year. -I have never before dealt with students in grade 6/7 who had suicidal ideation and severe depression. This occurred with a couple students stuck in the fake at home learning option. -Morale is lower than ever and substitute teachers are in the worst position where none are notified if the classes they are entering into have Covid breakouts, unless the teacher out sick chooses to tell them. My impression of all of this is: 1) Governments never wanted to put the money behind effectively fighting this and hoped it would go away 2) It did not go away 3) Media is busy manufacturing consent around doing basically nothing being the correct strategy There is no real knowledge of the long term effects this disease can cause, but the general feeling is that the people are exhausted of the ineffective middle ground bullshit of the last few years and are resigned to lettin’ er rip at this point. Let us pray the effects of whatever we’re doing now doesn’t bite us in the rear end later, because there is no meaningful opposition to the path we’re currently taking.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:23
|
|
|
Has anyone suggested requiring kids be vaccinated and wear a decent mask to go back into school buildings whose ventilation and filtration has been massively improved? Or is there a large bloc of politically-active eight-year-olds who get stressed out at ballooning education budgets.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:29
|
|
|
Ontario kids back Jan 17 as per The Coward Douglas Ford And here...we....go.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:29
|
|
|
MA-Horus posted:Ontario kids back Jan 17 as per The Coward Douglas Ford Also apparently kids in a class with each other for the entire day aren't considered close contacts (not that it would have mattered when they can't get tested and outbreaks aren't reported in schools)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:31
|
|
|
MA-Horus posted:Ontario kids back Jan 17 as per The Coward Douglas Ford BC kids went back today! 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:33
|
|
|
enki42 posted:Also apparently kids in a class with each other for the entire day aren't considered close contacts (not that it would have mattered when they can't get tested and outbreaks aren't reported in schools)
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:34
|
|
|
ChickenDoodle posted:BC kids went back today! Yeah, back today. Many staff members out with Covid, no n95 masks, no adequate ventilation (parents are lending me their air purifiers that I keep running all day but my class is the exception), no rules about mixing classes, many students awaiting their 2nd doses etc. We could do this safer but the public is either intentionally made unaware of actual classroom conditions and transmissions, doesn’t care or is actively hostile towards such efforts. My district is sitting on the federal Covid money sent out beginning pandemic for a rainy day I guess. Sorry I’m venting, but I’m at a pretty low point mentally right now. Time to make some burgers, have a beer and unplug for a bit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:45
|
|
|
ARACHTION posted:Yeah, back today. Many staff members out with Covid, no n95 masks, no adequate ventilation (parents are lending me their air purifiers that I keep running all day but my class is the exception), no rules about mixing classes, many students awaiting their 2nd doses etc. Good news: local pustulant donkey anus "lead out in cuffs" assures me it's for the best; mental health could suffer if we paid even the slightest bit of attention to public health.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 03:48
|
|
|
infernal machines posted:I didn't intend to suggest that it was and if that's the impression I gave, I apologize. Children being in school also means their parents are no longer pinned at home, and can go out in public and catch themselves some plague that way. Data collected before omicron suggested that staff were more likely to spread it among themselves [e: vs catching it from a student, or for a student to catch it from a peer], even in schools where everyone was ostensibly following the rules, and transmission rates were generally comparable to those in society https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/transmission_k_12_schools.html . That apparent not-unsafety is also predicated on a school's ability to implement and enforce layered protection protocols, and well, I don't have a lotta faith in that. I suspect ARACHTION's experience will be the rule rather than the exception. Also, the transmission rates for omicron are crazy-high in society, so "it's no worse there than anywhere else" doesn't sound like much of a justification flakeloaf fucked around with this message at 04:03 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 04:00
|
|
|
.
Legit Businessman fucked around with this message at 01:10 on Sep 10, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 04:03
|
|
|
ARACHTION posted:Yeah, back today. Many staff members out with Covid, no n95 masks, no adequate ventilation (parents are lending me their air purifiers that I keep running all day but my class is the exception), no rules about mixing classes, many students awaiting their 2nd doses etc. I’m very sorry, friend. I appreciate your posts from behind the front lines. Though going through your post history did lead me back to this tweet. loving government. ChickenDoodle fucked around with this message at 04:13 on Jan 11, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 04:03
|
|
|
Oh yeah there's totally no spread in schools. Oh here's an email from my daughters daycare. She hasn't been going in January but she would be in P3: This is in Kitchener-Waterloo
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 04:43
|
|
|
ChickenDoodle posted:I’m very sorry, friend. I appreciate your posts from behind the front lines. Thanks, bud. Honestly what has been most ruinous to my mental health is communicating this to friends and families and despite them being generally well informed, were totally aghast as the government has always reported all is well and perfect. The “we need a booster of kindness” line by Henry when my work from home friends got their boosters a weeks before me and my colleagues had me screaming. Another one was when my district proudly announced they were giving teachers each one (1) cloth mask to start the 2020 school year. This was after teachers protested receiving the ones plastered with the Henry line “Be kind, be calm, be safe”. So loving tone deaf holy poo poo. Just say “we understand it’s a risk and it’s one we need you to take” and at least then teachers will get the respect we deserve. But of course that doesn’t match the narrative that schools magically don’t act as a site of spread. I’m the only one in my family that my grandma doesn’t recognize anymore because it’s been too big a risk to visit her consistently during her Alzheimer’s decline. /end rant 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 04:48
|
|
|
ARACHTION posted:Another one was when my district proudly announced they were giving teachers each one (1) cloth mask to start the 2020 school year. This was after teachers protested receiving the ones plastered with the Henry line “Be kind, be calm, be safe”. The condescension and paternalism is baffling. It's not like y'all teachers aren't used to buying classroom supplies on your own dime (and it's not like the rest of us aren't shamefully aware of how common that is). Tell it like it is and maybe we can save a few lives.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 05:10
|
|
|
|
| # ? Jun 7, 2024 10:05 |
|
|
https://twitter.com/richardzussman/status/1480739461646348291 what
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 05:10
|
|
