|
Eric the Mauve posted:I've dealt with a few microcompanies like you described as Job#1 and the M.O. seems to always be the same. They talk and talk and talk so much about how great everything is so surely you don't mind taking a way below market salary to be part of our team right? I think it's fine to work for a small company at a lower salary if you really want to, but you should definitely do that after having made more money in some capacity. I agree that the small company, if any good, will come closer to market. I get a hell of a lot more autonomy and control at my small firm than I would at a bigger firm in exchange for making a lot of money rather than an insane amount of money. However, this isn't guaranteed working at a smaller company, and I already make way more money than I need or thought I would ever make so why bother switching?
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2022 15:16
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
Vox Nihili posted:One thing I would be sure to look into is the benefits. If the job comes with fully-paid top-flight health insurance and a pension that might make up the difference. Some union jobs are like that. Yeah the benefits were nothing special. I ended up calling them back and they didn't have any room to budge on the initial offer. It's a bummer but the nations healthcare system is heading towards some sort of collapse so maybe it's better to get away from the bedside while I can.
|
|
#
?
Jan 7, 2022 17:17
|
|
|
I'm a nurse making okay pay in a boarding school rather than hospital setting. I'm pretty good at it; it's a small team and I get a lot of reinforcement from my colleagues and the pupils, but not much/any from anyone leadership wise unless I come to the rescue in a more serious situation (this is happening too frequently at the moment.) The job is secure and comes with a few benefits, like meals and use of the excellent facilities. Recently they have put through a change in shift patterns that is pretty catastrophic for my social life that *may* increase safety. The job has become less pleasant recently as demands have increased and parents more toxic. This has contributed to me feeling it isn't worth it any more. I sent a formal list of grievances about the state of things to my manager earlier today, and we're having a meeting later this week. It basically books down to me wanting a not insignificant pay rise if I'm to continue working there (10-20%). The communication also talked about what I bring to the team (a lot) and how I want to continue being there if possible. Is it crass to straight up ask for more money? I have never done this in my life, but I have another job I do as and when (travel nursing) that I could easily make my main employment. Any tips?
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 17:34
|
|
|
Shelvocke posted:Is it crass to straight up ask for more money? I have never done this in my life, but I have another job I do as and when (travel nursing) that I could easily make my main employment. Any tips? It may be crass, but only because companies have a vested interest in making people think it's rude to talk about money or ask for money, so there's been a lot of pressure put on people (pretty much since the industrial revolution, if not earlier) to not do it. That doesn't mean you shouldn't, just that you should be aware that it'll feel weird. Just be prepared to invoke your BATNA (best alternative to a negotiated agreement), which in this case is transitioning to travel nurse full time. The likelihood you'll need to do that depends on how much leverage you have over your employer, which involves things like how hard you are to replace, how much they'd end up paying the replacement, and how angry they'll be that you dare ask for more money (employers are rarely perfectly logical entities). Good luck!
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 18:09
|
|
|
Not crass, it wasn't crass when they changed your working conditions, it's not crass when you are responding to it. Agree on BATNA in general here. I'd actually maybe spend some time so you have good idea on whats realistically available. Also, fwiw, I feel like if you can do the travelling nurse thing it seems like a thing that should be strongly considered. Its one of those "once a decade" opportunity that I think could really make a big difference for people. That's just my poorly informed opinion though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 18:48
|
|
|
Thanks those are good insights. I've done travel nursing full time before, and it's fine, and gives a lot of freedom. I guess the most compelling reason to stay is that my friends there asked me to stay? This is not a good enough reason.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:10
|
|
|
Shelvocke posted:Thanks those are good insights. I've done travel nursing full time before, and it's fine, and gives a lot of freedom. Yeah, your friends will recover. Or they won't, and they'll quit, and management will learn that it's a bad idea to jerk employees around (jk, management won't learn poo poo).
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:25
|
|
|
or they're work friends and you'll gradually lose touch with them after you leave, which is fine and normal
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:32
|
|
|
Yeah I wouldn't base your decision on what your work friends think, and if they don't meet the pay threshold you think is appropriate for the changes, you should absolutely go get paid Texa$ money travel nursing while the getting is good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:44
|
|
|
Ah the power of gemeinschaft
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 19:49
|
|
|
Shelvocke posted:I'm a nurse making okay pay in a boarding school rather than hospital setting. I'm pretty good at it; it's a small team and I get a lot of reinforcement from my colleagues and the pupils, but not much/any from anyone leadership wise unless I come to the rescue in a more serious situation (this is happening too frequently at the moment.) The job is secure and comes with a few benefits, like meals and use of the excellent facilities. They know you can get 300-400% more travel nursing and that they will pay 300%-400% to replace you but they will refuse the 20% anyway because they don't think you'll actually leave. Leave.
|
|
#
?
Jan 10, 2022 21:08
|
|
|
shame on an IGA posted:They know you can get 300-400% more travel nursing and that they will pay 300%-400% to replace you but they will refuse the 20% anyway because they don't think you'll actually leave. Yeah sadly there's a 90% chance that this is the scenario that plays out And yeah if you don't mind wearing a n95 for the next 2 years at work, go collect that sweet travel nurse money, this is the time to do it, they won't be paying as much in 8 weeks as they are now
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 00:08
|
|
|
Shelvocke posted:I guess the most compelling reason to stay is that my friends there asked me to stay? This is not a good enough reason. It depends: will your friends pay you the difference to stay? 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 01:48
|
|
|
Had the meeting brought forward and got down to it. Outlined problems I have with the institution and so on, quite a good talk. The meat: boss not budging on new scheduling system (that none of the nurses think will work) and is not able to see why my schedule in particular is unreasonable. She said that HR straight up would rather accept high turnover off staff and have a flat rate for us (this is baffling??). She also said that from a public liability point of view, less capable operators within a dialled down framework made more sense than more capable professionals with a more complex skillset (??). Because gently caress what the kids actually need, right? I'm going to have a meeting with the HR director before I hand in my notice but honestly this screams "institution that does not value it's staff." Thanks for the encouragement guys. Truly eye opening.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:37
|
|
|
Shelvocke posted:Had the meeting brought forward and got down to it. Outlined problems I have with the institution and so on, quite a good talk. drat, that's really unfortunate, and I'm sorry to hear that. However, I can't say that it's overly surprising. I've always felt that in situations like this, the decision was made by someone high enough up that there is no changing it, and any explanation to "why" isn't going to make sense because there simply isn't one. In other words, the truth of the matter is in what they do, not what they say. The trick is to not get confused/distracted by what they say, heh.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:52
|
|
|
They want to break labor before labor breaks them; they think you won't call their bluff. If they do want to keep you their next trick will be "why are you doing this to the children, they did nothing wrong." They don't give a gently caress about results, they care about maintaining optics important to their clients (the parents) for the lowest possible cost. To those clients, a nurse is a nurse is a nurse. If you stay they'll have won; if you (and/or others) leave they'll spin it as a cost reduction measure and try to keep it going with less qualified bottom-bid personnel. Their clients don't know how to sort an okay nurse from a great one so they're taking the path of least expense. Get out and get paid.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 21:57
|
|
|
It'd be different if you had a union. Alas.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
Not a Children posted:They want to break labor before labor breaks them; they think you won't call their bluff. If they do want to keep you their next trick will be "why are you doing this to the children, they did nothing wrong." 
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 22:15
|
|
|
I think the vague, unknown higher-up motive is almost always profit.
|
|
#
?
Jan 11, 2022 22:49
|
|
|
I've never had a recruiter directly tell me the salary range in the initial screen for the position before. after he asked a few questions of me, and I of the company, he asked me point blank if I'd like to move forward with the tech interview given the range he quoted earlier. I was so flabbergasted I gave the professional-speak equivalent of "uh yeah gimme the top of the range you quoted." Has anyone been in this situation before? It almost feels like a lack of professionalism on their part, or maybe they're just that desperate, but I feel like I've been manipulated. (software engineering, USA)
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:05
|
|
|
Is it an rear end-in-seat job as opposed to a remote one? If so, yes, they're that desperate.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:10
|
|
|
I would say one in three recruiters talk salary range in my experience Usually I say something like "that's in the ballpark of what I'm looking at for my next position, but I can't commit to a number right now" signaling I want to continue the process but being clear I haven't started salary negotiations yet A lot of mid range jobs seem to talk salary, makes sense, depending on experience a SWE II might think 70,000 is good, or might walk away from a company's best offer of $145,000 in disgust, no point in doing a technical interview if the employer and candidate are in different markets and don't speak the same salary range
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:13
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:rear end-in-seat job 60 minutes had the chief economist for LinkedIn the other day, it's on YouTube, I think she quoted pre pandemic 1 in 450 jobs was remote, now it's 1 in 7
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:16
|
|
|
I don't think I'll apply for an in-person job again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
Everything I'm hearing is that if you advertise a remote role you get 200 applicants, if you advertise the exact same role but requiring rear end in seat you get crickets. 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:18
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Everything I'm hearing is that if you advertise a remote role you get 200 applicants, if you advertise the exact same role but requiring rear end in seat you get crickets. What are the crickets` salary expectations?
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:20
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Everything I'm hearing is that if you advertise a remote role you get 200 applicants, if you advertise the exact same role but requiring rear end in seat you get crickets. Every time I hear stories about this, I just think "Boy, this has proved that so much of office culture bullshit was a big loving lie, a huge make-work project for pointless middle managers". I wonder at what point historically we could have technologically achieved high levels of remote work, and where we would be if that had had greater adoption for years or even a decade now. If nothing else, productivity would have been higher. I too have no desire to ever work in an office again unless there is an especially compelling reason, like the work involves an irreplaceable physical aspect to the work itself.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:32
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:Every time I hear stories about this, I just think "Boy, this has proved that so much of office culture bullshit was a big loving lie, a huge make-work project for pointless middle managers". I wonder at what point historically we could have technologically achieved high levels of remote work, and where we would be if that had had greater adoption for years or even a decade now. If nothing else, productivity would have been higher. Just the accessibility ramifications are staggering.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:38
|
|
|
Absurd Alhazred posted:Just the accessibility ramifications are staggering. gently caress I didn't even think about that. That just makes it 600 times more infuriating.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:40
|
|
|
When I applied for workman's comp my employer said my job couldn't be done remotely. Two months later, I'm fired, the pandemic hit and guess what, the job is remote.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:45
|
|
|
Eric the Mauve posted:Everything I'm hearing is that if you advertise a remote role you get 200 applicants, if you advertise the exact same role but requiring rear end in seat you get crickets. Def on the crickets for in-person but for SWE-remote I am still not getting huge waves for intermediate/senior. It's still pretty tough. Still good juniors out there though. I will say almost my entire team is waiting for the office to re-open to at least do 1-2 days a week in office (all voluntary). That might be rose-colored glasses though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 00:51
|
|
|
Magnetic North posted:Every time I hear stories about this, I just think "Boy, this has proved that so much of office culture bullshit was a big loving lie, a huge make-work project for pointless middle managers". I wonder at what point historically we could have technologically achieved high levels of remote work, and where we would be if that had had greater adoption for years or even a decade now. If nothing else, productivity would have been higher. technologically I think the tipping point would be somewhere between 2008 and 2012 but culturally, even if covid had happened 4 years earlier than it did implementation of it would've been sabotaged at every level of government and corporate management because forcing boomers to spend time at home with their families is a war crime.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:04
|
|
|
Junior positions have like 99 applications each on LinkedIn, although about 30 of them are from like Pakistan. Still makes it hard to break in I guess 
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 01:04
|
|
|
I was pretty happy in my last job that was 100% in-office pre-pandemic though there were a lot of soul-crushing aspects of being in the office just related to how offices are in general. I still wasn't really looking to change jobs though because there would only have been a couple of local options without changing industries and they seemed likely to be worse for various reasons and I wasn't going to move. Anyway, going WFH during the pandemic made remote seem more do-able and once I started looking there were more opportunities than I expected, which I would never have had where I live. So now I'm with a fully remote company doing related work for more money. And it's good for employers too, I told my last job that they should consider a remote job to replace me because based on industry message board stuff I was seeing, there were a lot of extremely qualified people in smaller cities not getting paid very well that they could poach.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 03:59
|
|
|
Welp you guys were right; ghosted by that one company that I felt like the interview went extremely well. What a ego killer. Onto the next!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 17:03
|
|
|
aperfectcirclefan posted:Welp you guys were right; ghosted by that one company that I felt like the interview went extremely well. What a ego killer. So there's obviously still a chance they ghosted you, but according to your post about it, the interview was last Tuesday (1/4). I know they said they'd get back to you by the end of the week, but that's an absurd claim on their part. Every job I've interviewed for that hired me (aside from contract jobs where I knew they wanted to fill the role ASAP) has taken 1-4 weeks longer than they claimed they would. It's been a week and a day since your interview- I honestly wouldn't be 100% sure they ghosted you until it's February. Definitely keep looking and considering those other offers though.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 18:33
|
|
|
Will do. I was probably reading too much of Reddits "if they didn't get back right away they're not interested". :v. Thanks for making me feel better!
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 19:17
|
|
|
aperfectcirclefan posted:Will do. I was probably reading too much of Reddits "if they didn't get back right away they're not interested". :v. Thanks for making me feel better! It's not a bad idea to keep applying and interviewing like you were ghosted, though. Until you have a written offer in hand, it's in your best interest to keep looking anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 20:54
|
|
|
Coco13 posted:Until you have a written offer in hand, it's in your best interest to keep looking anyway.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 21:23
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 18, 2024 00:53 |
|
|
FMguru posted:Until you've been issued you door badge (or received your work laptop in the mail, if you're remote) you should keep looking. Offers, even written offers, sometimes turn to dust at the eleventh hour. Truth. I had an accepted offer that got changed due to some miscommunication on their part but had another one lined up and could just hop over. It definitely worked out for the best too with the changes the original co would have required would have caused a lot more headaches and time away from the family.
|
|
#
?
Jan 12, 2022 21:28
|
|
