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That and also railroads can make passenger service the lowest priority without serious pushback. If anything it is one system that makes sure nothing will ever get better. Even Portland had silently has thrown up it hands and now unquestionably worships the car.
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Jan 10, 2022 19:56
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Pepe Silvia Browne posted:i know comparatively this doesn't seem like much of a complaint but for two cities this close to each other, in the same (BLUE) state, there's no reason why this doesn't exist beyond Car/Oil Companies Say No I don't think car/oil companies even need to say no anymore, between sprawl making car trips more attractive to a larger and often relatively wealthy slice of the population and basically all politicians having terminal cases of car brain, the question probably doesn't even come up often enough for either of those industries to have to slap it down.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:02
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It is kind of funny how we elected the train president and the trains are worse than ever. You'd think we'd at least get one new train? Maybe just one train from the guy who was all about trains? No. No trains.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:04
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Boywhiz88 posted:Wait. This is real and not a rendering? That really loving sucks!!! Yup, that's Dodger Stadium. They have a bus route for the public transport, and that's about it. For even more capitalism.jpg the stadium doesn't technically even own the parking lot because the previous owner still does (it was a divorce thing) and he is more than happy to just rent-seek and even gently caress with the stadium rather than something a little smarter like a tram from Union Station. Electro-Boogie Jack posted:I don't think car/oil companies even need to say no anymore, between sprawl making car trips more attractive to a larger and often relatively wealthy slice of the population and basically all politicians having terminal cases of car brain, the question probably doesn't even come up often enough for either of those industries to have to slap it down. The propaganda campaign began in the time of the Boomer childhood and the construction of the highway. Once a couple generations grew up that way with no alternative, there wasn't any need for the propaganda as the car actually is the most time efficient transport method in the US today (because they sabotaged and didn't build any alternative)
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Jan 10, 2022 20:06
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Ardennes posted:I think that is both true and also, the idea you can take regular regional trains to even small country towns is pretty mind blowing to an American, who would have to probably take 6 different buses to get there is they didn’t have a car. Yes, our rail network is truly excellent in spite of itself, and in spite of deliberate attempts to cripple it. As usual there are the traditional North-south disparities replicated in our rail infrastructure, in that parts of the South here have either no rail, or single-track, non-electrified (heard rumors of certain southern lines only recently abandoning coal powered locmotives but i dont know how seriously to take them), spotty coverage etc. This is esp. bad in Sicily. Also, the truly common tale to all the world is efforts by the car industry to gently caress up railway infrastructure. In italy investments in rail were crippled and partial dismantlement started, esp. of freight rail, at the behest of fiat, who had an ear in the government and really wanted to sell trucks and cars in the 60s. thats also why we got our monstrous motorway projects. rome to this day has like 2% of its prewar rail infrastructure, looking especially at tram lines, because of a pro-car mayor in the 60s who just like loving tore everything out lmao. as regards alitalia, i agree with your assessment. it wasnt doing well already, then it sunk a gigantic pile of money into a boondoggle of an airport an hour off of milan nobody else wanted to use, then high speed rail likely delivered the coup de grace by taking a big slice of its revenue from the rome-milan ferry route.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:06
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Pryor on Fire posted:It is kind of funny how we elected the train president and the trains are worse than ever. You'd think we'd at least get one new train? Maybe just one train from the guy who was all about trains? No. No trains. Amtrak did get some marginal capital spending in the infrastructure bill but it a drop in the bucket considering and mostly aimed at new rolling stock and the North Eastern corridor. Yeah, for Italy, I think it is on average pretty good but with some pretty big caveats. Rome especially is a mess (hardly a unique opinion) and could have easily had a much more cohesive system considering its previous infrastructure (also it’s suppose to be the capital…) but obviously they let cars take control and now Romans are paying for it. There has been some hope with the newest merl line but it has to be possible to combine existing rail infrastructure into something more like a cohesive s-barn system like Moscow is doing. There are elements of infrastructure there but they need to be brought together in a unified system. Milan in comparison is a bit stark. That said, other cities like Florence, Venice, Genoa and Naples are probably always going to be limited by geography and history. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:17 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 20:07
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Amtrak management's competency gets such harsh criticism from what seem to be knowledgeable people who want better for the states.https://pedestrianobservations.com/2021/05/06/amtraks-continued-ignorance/ posted:As with most such fraud, he is probably lying to himself and not just to the people who pay his salary. Americans, as a collective, are wantonly ignorant of the rest of the world. The only time they interact with the rest of the world, especially countries that don’t speak English, is through intermediaries in international consulting, who get the skewed sample of world projects that invite in international consultants, omitting the bulk of public works built in states with in-house design capacity. Individual Americans can be knowledgeable, but their knowledge is not respected, even by people who profess their interest in state capacity. Thus, no matter how smart individual Americans can get, collectively America remains incurious.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:18
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Pryor on Fire posted:It is kind of funny how we elected the train president and the trains are worse than ever. You'd think we'd at least get one new train? Maybe just one train from the guy who was all about trains? No. No trains. The DC metro has been on fire so many times it's a meme now. I was on the metro one of those times and was 4 hours late for my work orientation. https://twitter.com/ismetroonfire?lang=en
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Jan 10, 2022 20:25
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Ardennes posted:That said, other cities like Florence, Venice, Genoa and Naples are probably always going to be limited by geography and history. you can pretty much walk across firenze or venizia in like under an hour and rail goes right to city central. there's a few buses from some of the rare further flung or like airport connection which seems fine. their geographic/history is mostly the reason they don't really need any other transit besides that.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:26
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Part of it is clearly controlled demolition, there is zero interest in allowing Amtrak to be truly successful. That said, the Japanese rail system itself is a bit nutty considering it is nearly completely privatized considering how much the country depends on it. If anything rail travel in Japan could be a lot better but even so it is still light years beyond the US. Xaris posted:you can pretty much walk across firenze or venizia in like under an hour and rail goes right to city central. there's a few buses from some of the rare further flung or like airport connection which seems fine. their geographic/history is mostly the reason they don't really need any other transit besides that. There are plenty of areas in those cities that tourists don’t see though and while things have improved, it could be better. Venezia and Florence has okay tram systems but they are far from comprehensive even considering geography. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 20:31 on Jan 10, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 20:29
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Ardennes posted:
It's privatised but it's also not private in the way that like PepsiCo is or something. It's important to look at how it functions and operates as well - heavy use of land value capture as a funding mechanism is one example of a mechanism that: - is SOE-like - an SOE should be able to execute on even more effectively with the right framework e: i suppose that it's just another example of the importance of competence, we can't just advocate for government control of investment/operations, we have to demand effective, outcome driven administration as well
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Jan 10, 2022 20:45
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pointsofdata posted:It's privatised but it's also not private in the way that like PepsiCo is or something. It's important to look at how it functions and operates as well - heavy use of land value capture as a funding mechanism is one example of a mechanism that: I still think a single centrally controlled company could do a better job, honestly Russian Railways is probably a better model even considering it’s issues. The regionalization is JR especially isn’t helping. It also goes to rapid transit as well where could you could easily nationalize systems and provide a single flat price.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:53
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Ardennes posted:I still think a single centrally controlled company could do a better job, honestly Russian Railways is probably a better model even considering it’s issues. The regionalization is JR especially isn’t helping. Oh yeah agreed, I'm just saying it's totally insufficient in the absence of the right culture and skills. The current US institutions (and many in other countries) are state run and provide garbage value for resources invested.
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Jan 10, 2022 20:58
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Ardennes posted:I still think a single centrally controlled company could do a better job, honestly Russian Railways is probably a better model even considering it’s issues. The regionalization is JR especially isn’t helping. Could you expand on russian railways? all i ever heard from people was vague 'RZhD is good' but i never truly followed how the company functioned, what investments it made etc
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Jan 10, 2022 21:07
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mortons stork posted:Could you expand on russian railways? all i ever heard from people was vague 'RZhD is good' but i never truly followed how the company functioned, what investments it made etc It mostly received everything from pre-breakup infrastructure, although it has privatized some freight operations. I would say it’s central strength is that it honestly provides decent quality long-haul service at affordable prices even considering some compromises. It is far free from flaws but at the same time it ties the country in a way other services can’t. The newer rolling stock is also pretty modern and comfortable. Also, Russia/the former Soviet Union has its own railway culture that is worth experiencing. ——- RzD is less of an example of a perfect company (there is corruption etc) but more that passenger service in even a huge country indeed possible but it’s really only effective if the state takes direct control of almost almost all aspects of operations. Ardennes has issued a correction as of 04:02 on Jan 11, 2022 |
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Jan 10, 2022 21:13
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Just got my first punishment pass, followed by a reverse at the traffic lights 30 meters later I hate cars.
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Jan 11, 2022 03:49
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Jestery posted:Just got my first punishment pass, followed by a reverse at the traffic lights 30 meters later https://youtu.be/xq0XNILIYTw
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Jan 11, 2022 04:45
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i understand the punishment pass part, what's a reverse at the traffic lights
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Jan 11, 2022 05:07
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Sphyre posted:i understand the punishment pass part, what's a reverse at the traffic lights the bike pulls up behind the oversized suv. the cage abruptly reverses, forcing the biker to bail and potentially watch their bike be crunched
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Jan 11, 2022 05:11
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kill cars
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Jan 11, 2022 05:34
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SKULL.GIF posted:the bike pulls up behind the oversized suv. the cage abruptly reverses, forcing the biker to bail and potentially watch their bike be crunched Yerp
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Jan 11, 2022 06:10
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Good news, everyone! California is investing its budget surplus back in https://twitter.com/business/status/1480665776495656962?t=213gf5YtFRNSFXB0fvUklw&s=19 Not only does it encourage gas guzzling (so much for being worried about climate change!), but it also has 0 positive impact on the many Californians who don't drive...
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Jan 11, 2022 06:16
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a rising tide lifts all boats, that’s why im all in on climate change
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Jan 11, 2022 07:17
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also gently caress semis just absolute road destroying gas guzzling people-flatteners that totally suck compared to trains
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Jan 11, 2022 15:19
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i hate cars
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Jan 11, 2022 15:23
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do we have a train thread or can this be a train thread because I just found out that Austria opened a premium night sleeper line from Graz to Zurich for like 80 euros round trip if you schedule ahead and holy poo poo that sounds awesome to just take a day trip to zurich, be well rested, and go back to grandma's over the next night
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Jan 11, 2022 15:25
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zegermans posted:do we have a train thread or can this be a train thread loving trains comes with hating cars so this is definitely the thread for talking about how trains are the best form of transportation known to man
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Jan 11, 2022 15:27
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zegermans posted:do we have a train thread or can this be a train thread that rules. there's no better sleep than sleep on a train bikes  trainshating cars
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Jan 11, 2022 15:29
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zegermans posted:do we have a train thread or can this be a train thread Sleeper trains in Europe went downhill (metaphorically, and probably sometimes literally) in these last decades. Competition from low-cost airlines, but also other things - e.g. I think the excellent Paris-Madrid sleeper was axed when they opened the daytime TGV from Paris to Barcelona. If you get the early train, you can then connect to Madrid on an AVE same day. Downsides: if you're coming from e.g. Amsterdam, you can't make the early TGV, so you have to spend a night in Paris or Barcelona. And now the entire trip takes place while you're awake. Where's the fun in that?? But the Austrians seem to be leading a sleeper train resurgence, which is nice. Europe is the perfect size for overnight train travel. I mean I probably would try a direct TGV from Amsterdam to Madrid in [adds up segments] around 12h45, but it makes more sense to sleep through it.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:30
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Bobstar posted:Sleeper trains in Europe went downhill (metaphorically, and probably sometimes literally) in these last decades. Competition from low-cost airlines, but also other things - e.g. I think the excellent Paris-Madrid sleeper was axed when they opened the daytime TGV from Paris to Barcelona. If you get the early train, you can then connect to Madrid on an AVE same day. Years ago I took a sleeper train from Berlin to Paris, but I was poor enough that I couldn't get a good sleeper compartment and instead had to spend the night sitting upright in a compartment with half a dozen other people. It was still awesome though.
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Jan 11, 2022 17:51
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Yeah, sleeper services are great and honestly usually pretty time efficient, I just wish there were more “semi-high speed” services that could thread the needle between high speed rail and usually much older rolling stock but that may be changing.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:01
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i once took an overnight train from saint petersburg to moscow, it was pretty cool. i think there's a high speed connection now that you can take during the day.
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Jan 11, 2022 18:10
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lobster shirt posted:i once took an overnight train from saint petersburg to moscow, it was pretty cool. i think there's a high speed connection now that you can take during the day. the high-speed connection is great. Four and a half hours from central Petersburg to central Moscow with the comfort of train travel, it is so much better than the equivalent trip by plane
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Jan 11, 2022 18:17
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i traveled around norway on night trains and it was pretty awesome. its pretty cool that they still keep those around wish we had more of those in italy for some of the less prestigious routes
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Jan 11, 2022 21:32
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Sleeper trains should be the future of long-distance travel imho.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:01
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zegermans posted:do we have a train thread or can this be a train thread There's the donoteat thread but this one has way more traffic and there's significant overlap so I say go for it
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Jan 11, 2022 22:06
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multimodal transportation owns. i love bringing my bike onto the train and then riding home. especially on those Amtrak routes where they have hooks for bikes in the baggage car so that you don't have to turn the bars or pedals.
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Jan 11, 2022 22:22
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https://twitter.com/verge/status/1480331682700050440?s=20 Elton Musk sir I didn't know you could get more Epic sir
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Jan 12, 2022 01:00
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it's so cool how americas regulatory apparatus is so moribund that it apparently can't do anything about a "make my car drive in manner that is unsafe and illegal" setting
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Jan 12, 2022 01:09
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there's no point to regulate imo. its the driver's responsibility if their machine breaks the law
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