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Fuzz posted:You should check out the V5 Sabbat book. It's actually sort of awesome and really veers them back from the whole "mindlessly sadistic bogeymen" vibe they had by the time Dirty Secrets of the Black Hand (ugh, that book) came out and back to being a more counter-culture pseudocult whose goal is to tear down the Elders and all the vestiges of enshrined vampiric power in an effort to destroy the Antediluvians and stave off their own extinction. It was always supposed to be about that, but holy poo poo did the Sabbat get lost in the weeds big time with the Black Hand, and then the TRUE Black Hand, and then stupid bullshit like True Brujah, etc. I mean you're basically describing the Revised Sabbat? DSotBH is so legendarily garbage that it basically only ever shows up again in any serious way (outside the True Brujah and Old Clan Tzimesce getting reprinted elsewhere) when half the inciting event that causes the Week of Nightmares is their entire command structure and their stupid ghost fort getting nuked. The Revised Sabbat was fine, and V5's "oh they all went to the Middle East for Reasons" is dumb. Does the Sabbat book walk it back?
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Jan 8, 2022 23:54
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Fuzz posted:counter-culture pseudocult whose goal is to tear down the Elders and all the vestiges of enshrined vampiric power How do they square the circle of that with how Sascha "I Was Embraced During Mi-Ka-Il's Rule And All I Got Was This Stupid T-Shirt" Vykos and the like actually set up its core belief systems?
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Jan 9, 2022 01:31
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The same way they always have- there's internal factions that value different things and what's actually binding then together is their shared love of their own monstrosity and the shared enemy in the Ancients / Camarilla. So if you're Sabbat elder, sure the younger Loyalists think the hierarchy misses the point and don't respect their elders, but they show up for vaulderie and other ritae andmake good cannon fodder, so gently caress it. The ones who survive will be the ones that see the value of the sect hierarchy and the ones that don't will probably die either doing something stupid and therefore raising the overall competence level of the sect or they'll die doing something that inconveniences the Ancients and their Camarilla puppets. Why bother bringing them to heel when you can just manipulate them into doing useful things and reward the ones who do what you want?
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Jan 9, 2022 01:39
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Pope Guilty posted:I mean you're basically describing the Revised Sabbat? DSotBH is so legendarily garbage that it basically only ever shows up again in any serious way (outside the True Brujah and Old Clan Tzimesce getting reprinted elsewhere) when half the inciting event that causes the Week of Nightmares is their entire command structure and their stupid ghost fort getting nuked. The Revised Sabbat was fine, and V5's "oh they all went to the Middle East for Reasons" is dumb. Does the Sabbat book walk it back? Yeah, they've been turned back into something like their 1E incarnation and are more akin to packs of terrorist cells than having their own organization or anything super interesting. They're honestly just super violent Anarchs, using the ritae and such but not really connected to each other save in name only a lot of the time. They've abandoned a lot of their strongholds to go fight 'The Gehenna War' but like Lucita is still around (so, yeah, the big NPCs didn't really go anywhere) as Archbishop of Madrid and she commands a pack of about 100 strong. Most importantly I guess is the fact the Sabbat book is strictly for antagonists which is kind of a bummer with how good the Rev Player's Guide was. It's kind of impressive in one respect as there's not a thing there for players aside from some Discipline amalgam powers. Not even any loresheets.
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Jan 9, 2022 02:23
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Dawgstar posted:Yeah, they've been turned back into something like their 1E incarnation and are more akin to packs of terrorist cells than having their own organization or anything super interesting. They're honestly just super violent Anarchs, using the ritae and such but not really connected to each other save in name only a lot of the time. They've abandoned a lot of their strongholds to go fight 'The Gehenna War' but like Lucita is still around (so, yeah, the big NPCs didn't really go anywhere) as Archbishop of Madrid and she commands a pack of about 100 strong. Most importantly I guess is the fact the Sabbat book is strictly for antagonists which is kind of a bummer with how good the Rev Player's Guide was. There's a playable Sabbat imprint coming out via STV written by all of the authors of the V5 Sabbat book. Seems like it's White Wolf/Paradox's policy to keep them as an NPC thing and not playable. Not sure why, maybe it's just excessive pearl clutching over people getting upset about a book that "promotes" murder and being a piece of poo poo? Who knows.
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Jan 9, 2022 03:25
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citybeatnik posted:How do they square the circle of that with how Sascha "I Was Embraced During Mi-Ka-Il's Rule And All I Got Was This Stupid T-Shirt" Vykos and the like actually set up its core belief systems? Decent licks who just happen to be very old bite like this, while the Hated Elder bites like this. Completely different.
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Jan 9, 2022 07:25
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My long hiatus'd Promethean campaign is going to start back up for about 7 sessions on Saturday and I wanted to get some ST tips for having a big shadowy org running in the background. My campaigns have pretty much always had more personal, local antagonists, and I was thinking of having a character from one of the PC's backstory be involved in a big SV style alchemy startup. I know that typically in *OD is kind of intended to run those kind of broad, impersonal orgs, but I've never done it so far and I was wondering like, what's the session to session pace of introducing that sort of thing as a threat, how intrusive do you make it, is it better to make their motivations kind of obvious or to slow roll it, etc.
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Jan 13, 2022 19:01
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It's a poo poo answer, but both. Some encounters should be blatent as gently caress, some should be with people who are ignorant of who they're working for, but the players pick up that the outcome of their actions would be beneficial to the shadow org and prompt them to investigate closer.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:19
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That makes sense. The trouble with a remotely 'smart' conspiracy is that it's very easy as the GM to make it basically impossible for the PCs to figure out that they're being hunted at all for long stretches of time, so probably open up with some pretty unambiguous announcement of threat.
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Jan 13, 2022 20:34
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Tulip posted:That makes sense. The trouble with a remotely 'smart' conspiracy is that it's very easy as the GM to make it basically impossible for the PCs to figure out that they're being hunted at all for long stretches of time, so probably open up with some pretty unambiguous announcement of threat.
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Jan 13, 2022 21:17
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Tulip posted:That makes sense. The trouble with a remotely 'smart' conspiracy is that it's very easy as the GM to make it basically impossible for the PCs to figure out that they're being hunted at all for long stretches of time, so probably open up with some pretty unambiguous announcement of threat. If you have the time and expect the chronicle to last a while, you can also open up with a personal antagonist, or a series of disconnected events/antagonists, then slowly reveal the connections that tie them back to a shadowy organization. It's a classic structure for a reason, where in retrospect you realize that the Monster of the Week plots are linked together. With a Silicon Valley alchemy startup, you can even have the various antagonists be clients or investors with a connection, rather than active agents of the startup; the PCs dealing with the early antagonists can both clue them in that the conspiracy exists, and be what puts them on the conspiracy's radar. E: Also, a Silicon Valley startup should have a wildly varying degree of competence in detail, but a vast pool of resources. That's sort of the Silicon Valley startup aesthetic, and makes for a good antagonist: You can keep outwitting or outplaying them, but they have deep purses and lots of ambitious members waiting for a chance to try out their own pet project.
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Jan 14, 2022 00:43
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Running a Dark Ages game set in Italy and thinking of having a Sunset Invasion from Crusader Kings (Aztecs invade Europe) happening. Tell me why this is dumb.
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Jan 14, 2022 02:09
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ZearothK posted:Running a Dark Ages game set in Italy and thinking of having a Sunset Invasion from Crusader Kings (Aztecs invade Europe) happening. Tell me why this is dumb. WoD or CoD? And is it just the Sunset Invasion or is it the Sunset Invasion with WoD narratives about Aztec culture? I would not inflict any part of the WoD narratives about indigenous civilizations of the Americas on players.
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Jan 14, 2022 02:18
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the People of the Sun have of course completely eliminated the scourge of vampirism from their shores and are appalled to find that the backward Europeans are so used to life being brutal and short that they apparently don't even notice it's there
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Jan 14, 2022 02:24
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Servetus posted:WoD or CoD? And is it just the Sunset Invasion or is it the Sunset Invasion with WoD narratives about Aztec culture? I would not inflict any part of the WoD narratives about indigenous civilizations of the Americas on players. I dunno thinking about the Sunset Invasion being the exact opposite of what the God Machine wants and the resulting chaos for Demons is pretty sweet IMO
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Jan 14, 2022 02:27
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The dumb part is that Sunset Invasion isn't already set up for Dark Ages.Joe Slowboat posted:If you have the time and expect the chronicle to last a while, you can also open up with a personal antagonist, or a series of disconnected events/antagonists, then slowly reveal the connections that tie them back to a shadowy organization. These are good points. The campaign's had about 20 sessions so far, then was on hiatus for a while, and now we're going to have probably 7 give or take sessions before a player gets a Sea Deployment and at that point I'm not sure what happens (he's NOAA and sometimes "at sea" involves a lot of sitting behind desks or in docks, and one time we did play a session while he was literally in the pacific because they were doing shore measurements so he got cell signal to the shore). To back up a little, one of the players is Unfleshed and was made by some SV douchebag, who she killed. The campaign takes place in the midwest in a kind of Periphery/Deus Ex type future, where the coastal government has kind of abandoned the midwest to its own devices. The most powerful central authority they've had so far was a cult that maintains the Wolf Creek Nuclear Power Plant (with the help of a spirit of retro-futurism). So the SV guys are distant and they'd be relying on proxies or otherwise be well outside of their element. There's a Minnesota Mafia that has been a kind of general background detail of some use. A previous major antagonist was the local car factory that the Unfleshed unionized as the completion of her Aurum. So I think I have some existing pieces who I can work into this. The other characters major background ties are with the Russian Mob out of Boston (this player is the most active by far and got the best moments in the earlier part of the campaign) and Jewish Mysticism (this player is least active but I think he got a lot of the moments he was aiming for, I think I can pump up his interests though). Current refinements are Plumbum, Cobalus, and Ferrum, so I think they're incentivized to go fairly hard at the moment, that's fun.
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Jan 14, 2022 02:45
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One of the most fun parts of evil antagonist organisations is their own internal struggles, even worse than the protagonists because they're held together not by personal bonds (usually) but by money, ambition and maybe ideology.Joe Slowboat posted:E: Also, a Silicon Valley startup should have a wildly varying degree of competence in detail, but a vast pool of resources. That's sort of the Silicon Valley startup aesthetic, and makes for a good antagonist: You can keep outwitting or outplaying them, but they have deep purses and lots of ambitious members waiting for a chance to try out their own pet project. Oh yeah, this is the fun yet scary kind of antagonist, like the CIA or Cobra: Even if they gently caress up all the time, they get unlimited do-overs and a plentiful supply of malicious freaks who want their turn.
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Jan 14, 2022 08:02
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ZearothK posted:Running a Dark Ages game set in Italy and thinking of having a Sunset Invasion from Crusader Kings (Aztecs invade Europe) happening. Tell me why this is dumb. The Camazotz (Werebats) running roughshod on the werewolves and vampires would be cool.
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Jan 14, 2022 15:24
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RocknRollaAyatollah posted:The Camazotz (Werebats) running roughshod on the werewolves and vampires would be cool.
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Jan 14, 2022 15:28
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Nah that sounds fun as hell to me, go nuts.
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Jan 14, 2022 16:50
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:the People of the Sun have of course completely eliminated the scourge of vampirism from their shores and are appalled to find that the backward Europeans are so used to life being brutal and short that they apparently don't even notice it's there Huitzilopochtli's priesthood going "gently caress these guys, we need the blood to make sure he can kick the stars' asses" is the plothook I never realized I needed.
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Jan 15, 2022 02:31
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My players have hit gnosis 3 now and the spellcasting is starting to get pretty complex, so I just wanna say a huge thank you to the goon who made http://www.voidstate.com/rpg/mage-spell-helper/#/ (at least, I think it was a goon). If it was you, you're my goddamn hero.
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Jan 15, 2022 08:32
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If I want a copy of Clanbook Nosferatu to reference with my V:tM 20th anniversary edition, do I want the 1st edition or the Revised edition of the clanbook?
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Jan 20, 2022 22:19
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Dragonshirt posted:If I want a copy of Clanbook Nosferatu to reference with my V:tM 20th anniversary edition, do I want the 1st edition or the Revised edition of the clanbook? Revised. 1st might have a few interesting bits but in all cases the Revised Clanbooks are head and shoulders above the originals.
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Jan 20, 2022 22:29
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Thank you!
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Jan 20, 2022 22:30
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Pope Guilty posted:Revised. 1st might have a few interesting bits but in all cases the Revised Clanbooks are head and shoulders above the originals. And in the case of 1E Nosferatu that's basically the first appearance of El Diablo Verde.
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Jan 21, 2022 00:33
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Looks like we're getting a M 20th Traditions book! I can't find anything definitive on the page whether or not Brucato is involved, though. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/339646881/lore-of-the-traditions-for-the-mage-20th-anniversary-ttrpg/description
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Jan 21, 2022 22:03
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Tsilkani posted:Looks like we're getting a M 20th Traditions book! I can't find anything definitive on the page whether or not Brucato is involved, though. Love that cover recycling M20 art and putting the exceptionally bad Son of Ether prominently in the centre.
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Jan 22, 2022 11:33
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Question about Mummy 2E: was there something in there about how mummies experience time in a nonlinear way, that they'll experience the different times they're woken up out of order for some reason? Or is that just something I somehow made up and attributed to Mummy 2E?
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Jan 23, 2022 03:42
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FirstAidKite posted:Question about Mummy 2E: was there something in there about how mummies experience time in a nonlinear way, that they'll experience the different times they're woken up out of order for some reason? Or is that just something I somehow made up and attributed to Mummy 2E? Yes, it's a whole thing throughout the book that mummies aren't experiencing Descents linearly. It's pretty transparently a gimmick to allow you to hop around different eras without caring about who learned what when and what that would mean for a character sheet or narrative. The trouble they go to assuring everyone that you probably can't exploit future-knowledge in anything more than an immediate, superficial way kind of deflates it.
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Jan 23, 2022 07:13
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LatwPIAT posted:Love that cover recycling M20 art and putting the exceptionally bad Son of Ether prominently in the centre. They could have had Soviet Superhero, Literally The Mother loving Shadow or Doc Savage, John Steed With An LSD Gun, or 50s Poindexter Nerd Meets Atomic Greaser but no, they had to go with Random Cosplayer In A Corset.
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Jan 23, 2022 16:48
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Every time I see M20 get a new lackluster supplement, I genuinely wish that Awakening were the more popular game with kickstarters and stretch goals giving life to the line.
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Jan 23, 2022 17:31
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Octavo posted:Every time I see M20 get a new lackluster supplement, I genuinely wish that Awakening were the more popular game with kickstarters and stretch goals giving life to the line. I have this exact same experience, and the idea that M20 is the more popular of the two fills me with bile.
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Jan 23, 2022 18:43
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Joe Slowboat posted:I have this exact same experience, and the idea that M20 is the more popular of the two fills me with bile. Choleric or melancholic?
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Jan 23, 2022 18:45
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I do wonder how much of this specific M20 release coming out is OP trying to get something else on the license before a 5e gets announced, since Rich was saying something in the comments on the latest Monday Meeting Notes about how Apocalypse Record was the last W20 book because of W5 coming out.
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Jan 23, 2022 19:38
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Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:I do wonder how much of this specific M20 release coming out is OP trying to get something else on the license before a 5e gets announced, since Rich was saying something in the comments on the latest Monday Meeting Notes about how Apocalypse Record was the last W20 book because of W5 coming out. M20 is in such a bad state that I hope M5 comes quickly to put an end to its current direction. I mean, it still won't be a positive development for Awakening, but I don't think anything is going to happen to revive Awakening. Really, I think the reason that Paradox has skipped M5 is that it's going to be incredibly difficult to give the Traditions the treatment that the Masquerade clans got in V5, as detailed in the development blog: https://www.worldofdarkness.com/news/development-blog-defining-clans Octavo fucked around with this message at 20:26 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 20:24
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Choleric, definitely. I want more Awakening! I will support more Awakening! It's just a really good game, and I would like more toys for it please and thank you. e: Also, V5 dev blogs are always unexpectedly funny, like describing the wide variety of clans you can be: "For Vampire, the clans are also what provide the initial “hook” into the game or for a character concept. Scheming Ventrue, crafty Tzimisce, cunning Ministry, stern Banu Haqim" - so we have clever/underhanded, clever/underhanded, clever/underhanded, and stern. Really selling me on the wide variety of hooks available! Joe Slowboat fucked around with this message at 21:03 on Jan 23, 2022 |
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Jan 23, 2022 21:00
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Maybe one day we'll see Tome of the Pentacle released but I've basically given up hope of ever getting Fallen Worlds.
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Jan 23, 2022 21:17
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citybeatnik posted:They could have had Soviet Superhero, Literally The Mother loving Shadow or Doc Savage, John Steed With An LSD Gun, or 50s Poindexter Nerd Meets Atomic Greaser but no, they had to go with Random Cosplayer In A Corset. A trace of a stock photo of a steampunk cosplayer in a corset and posture collar, where the artist couldn't be bothered to draw both legs so one is a mirror of the other. It's lazy and ugly.
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Jan 23, 2022 23:19
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cptn_dr posted:Maybe one day we'll see Tome of the Pentacle released but I've basically given up hope of ever getting Fallen Worlds. I hope maybe in a couple of years we'll see Tome of the Pentacle. I also hope DaveB sells his own imperial casting rules and other behind the scenes books on the storyteller's vault like Rose Bailey did for Requiem. He could sell them for like $30 each and I'd buy them.
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Jan 23, 2022 23:34
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