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There are a ton of weird interactions in this game, like how acceleratium (makes you go fast) + slime (makes you go slow) = explosions. It makes me wonder what this game would be like if there was something like an in-game alchemy recipe book that listed discovered mixes, but it'd be hard to track which ones were done intentionally versus happening at random in the world. That said, my two biggest complaints about this game continue to be "enabling mods disables a bunch of the fun secret poo poo" and "the start of the game is a slow slog and i wish it had the nightmare perks/wand selection at the start" (but, again, mods disabling features)
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Jan 16, 2022 03:10
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wait what gets disabled, is there a list somewheres? i don't like thaaat
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Jan 16, 2022 03:11
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Was that someone with a holy hand grenade wand? I guess it could've also been a berserked character with a less rare explosive. looking at the animation, it appears to be several overlapping explosions on the same frame. like what happens when after firing one of the crappy "shufflecast 11 spells at once and then recharge for a few minutes" wands that generated full of generic bombs/etc. which exist only to troll the player
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Jan 16, 2022 03:15
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silentsnack posted:looking at the animation, it appears to be several overlapping explosions on the same frame. I was thinking the luminous drill clipped a mine or something
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Jan 16, 2022 03:16
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Any tricks in the (real) late game madness to avoid dying instantly to polymorph? You kind of become immune to everything else except being slowly whittled down by projectiles (though if you've stacked a ton of shields that poo poo seems to work pretty good). I frequently will just become the victim of a polymorphine leak somewhere and that'll be the end of it. Aside from being extremely cautious all the time most other threats I've learned to overcome with perks/spells, especially since endgame you end up super saiyan-ing around the map it becomes pretty hard to even see the thing that'll polymorph you
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Jan 16, 2022 03:21
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Zamujasa posted:There are a ton of weird interactions in this game, like how acceleratium (makes you go fast) + slime (makes you go slow) = explosions. Wait wait it does WHAT!?! That's incredible 
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Jan 16, 2022 03:24
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Zamujasa posted:There are a ton of weird interactions in this game, like how acceleratium (makes you go fast) + slime (makes you go slow) = explosions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4lEsyhMOH8
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Jan 16, 2022 03:28
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Also mix acceleratium and levitatium to get hastium, which applies both effects at half thr duration
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Jan 16, 2022 03:29
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Ciaphas posted:wait what gets disabled, is there a list somewheres? i don't like thaaat it's not as disappointing as i make it sound: - achievements are disabled (which is pointless, since you can trivially give yourself everything at the start, then disable mods and edit the "mods used this run" flag to 0) - eye glyph messages do not appear - the cauldron secret does not exist or function; i forget the specific effect - secret messages for achieving notable wand effects are disabled for the last one, you get things like "the gods are afraid" if you deal 1M DPS with a wand, or other messages if you do stuff like make an infinite projectile it's nothing major, but it still feels like a subtle gently caress you, especially for people like me who are absolute dog poo poo at this game
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Jan 16, 2022 03:31
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What happens if you have the slime blood perk and douse yourself in acceleratium? Or does it only cause the explosive reaction if the acceleration effect clashes with the deceleration effect?
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Jan 16, 2022 03:42
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Any tricks in the (real) late game madness to avoid dying instantly to polymorph? You kind of become immune to everything else except being slowly whittled down by projectiles (though if you've stacked a ton of shields that poo poo seems to work pretty good). get a flask of PolyGoo or Chaotic Goo, then eat a bunch of fungus and/or glue, until you trip so hard you break the simulation. under some circumstances this can lead to odd things like making you bleed Ambrosia whenever you get damaged, or (the goal in this case) turning all polymorphine into something that doesn't insta-gameover you on contact. edit: N.B. it can also backfire and turn a common substance into something you were trying to erase, in which case the run is screwed, so this is probably best done when you're just goofing around or gambling on going entirely off the rails. silentsnack fucked around with this message at 03:50 on Jan 16, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 03:46
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fungal shifts are the single funniest element in this game in terms of pure, unadulterated chaos, and i love them very much
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Jan 16, 2022 03:48
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IIRC you can fungal shift flammable gas into acid, which evolves flammable gas, which turns into acid, which...
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Jan 16, 2022 04:22
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Zamujasa posted:fungal shifts are the single funniest element in this game in terms of pure, unadulterated chaos, and i love them very much it's truly one of their best later patch gameplay decisions, such a massive spectrum of outcomes
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Jan 16, 2022 04:28
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Any tricks in the (real) late game madness to avoid dying instantly to polymorph? You kind of become immune to everything else except being slowly whittled down by projectiles (though if you've stacked a ton of shields that poo poo seems to work pretty good). If you want the "how in the hell?" answer: if you pick up and carry a hollow egg in your item inventory and you get polymorphed, the egg will automatically break and cast the spells inside. You can do something like cocoon yourself in circles of shielding, circle of vigor, etc. You can go one step further and do something like use the dirt clod spell with expanded explosion to make a huge pile of dirt, and add in a delayed way to hollow out the center so you don't suffocate. Though it doesn't do much for you if you get turned into a worm. The hitch is that the game will forget what's in a spell egg when you save and load the game, so you have to make a new one each time you reload.
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Jan 16, 2022 04:29
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And I haven't yet tried it myself but you're supposed to be able to drink polymorph with iron stomach to get temporary immunity.
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Jan 16, 2022 04:35
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qhnA0GVoG-o
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Jan 16, 2022 04:47
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holy poo poo 
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Jan 16, 2022 05:07
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DarkAvenger211 posted:Oh I was mixing up what you said with the add mana spell, That's what I usually use. Do note that with clever use of wand wrapping you can get the benefit of a spell twice. Example: [add mana][chainsaw][multicast 2][a single offensive spell and all it's modifiers]. On cast, it first casts the chainsaw and adds mana. Then the multicast casts your offensive spell, and still wants to draw another spell but the wand is out, so it draws [add mana] + [chainsaw] from the discards, and casts them too. Then the wand refreshes, and for the next frame the first spell is again [add mana] + [chainsaw]
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Jan 16, 2022 18:16
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resistentialism posted:And I haven't yet tried it myself but you're supposed to be able to drink polymorph with iron stomach to get temporary immunity. You can also eat the corpses of poly mages
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Jan 16, 2022 18:30
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Zamujasa posted:it's not as disappointing as i make it sound: People who are bad at the game are not going to be doing eye glyph and potion shenanigans. Those were added specifically to be an absurdly difficult challenge to figure out. Basically, the community was figuring out secrets way faster than the devs intended, so they said hold my beer and now we have whatever the gently caress is going on with those. These are all very, very, very minor things.
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Jan 16, 2022 20:43
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but my cheevos 
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Jan 16, 2022 21:35
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yeah at least those lockouts are pretty minor. still annoying that its a thing at all, but oh well always edit wands everywhere makes the game just plain better drat it 
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Jan 16, 2022 21:38
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Is there any progress on those puzzles?
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Jan 17, 2022 00:42
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KillHour posted:People who are bad at the game are not going to be doing eye glyph and potion shenanigans. i'm curious how you intend this to be read. is it that people who are bad at the game are not going to be able to (because they cannot get to that part of the game), or that they won't have any interest in seeing how those systems work? someone being low-skill doesn't mean they should be completely locked out of something like this, especially given just how difficult this game is -- again, something like 11% of players have the finished-the-game achievement. and finishing the game is relatively easy compared to the outright diabolical bullshit you have to do for some of the advanced content quote:Those were added specifically to be an absurdly difficult challenge to figure out. Basically, the community was figuring out secrets way faster than the devs intended, so they said hold my beer and now we have whatever the gently caress is going on with those. These are all very, very, very minor things. i'll wait for one of the devs to specifically state this, but there are plenty of extremely obtuse puzzles that do not lock you out, with actual rewards; 33-orb (or even 34 or 35 orbs now), the sun/dark sun quests, etc. "absurdly difficult challenge" is underselling just how incomprehensible these are; the eye glyph messages were completely mysterious until i personally dragged a friend into it and worked on reverse-engineering how they spawned and were assembled, and the cauldron has only recently been getting similar treatment (and it turns out that one of the functions involved might even be bugged, lol) like someone said: quote:yeah at least those lockouts are pretty minor. still annoying that its a thing at all, but oh well Anticheese posted:Is there any progress on those puzzles? as far as i'm aware, no. someone has spent an incredible amount of time detailing how a variety of cryptographic methods and ciphers react to the eye messages, but nothing concrete has been found out. the general attitude taken by that approach is "it's possible that some methods might provide information, but we have nowhere near enough ciphertext to try most attacks". and you have to consider that even the apparent reading is just a "this seems like the most reasonable approach" thing and we could be reading them all wrong. as i said above, the cauldron spawner has been reverse-engineered and i believe they uncovered that it's a cycle that repeats every year, but there's a bug in the function that handles it
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Jan 17, 2022 01:54
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Zamujasa posted:i'm curious how you intend this to be read. is it that people who are bad at the game are not going to be able to (because they cannot get to that part of the game), or that they won't have any interest in seeing how those systems work? Part of what makes it hard to figure out is that it's incredibly hard to experiment with. You have to spend hours and hours just to be able to find and interact with these things and then you don't know if something you did earlier made it impossible to solve, and you can't just cheat and give yourself whatever tools you need to poke at the thing. If you need void liquid to see if it interacts with the cauldron, for example, you need to find a legitimate way to acquire it. This is entirely the point of locking out mods - the devs didn't want an answer to be found by someone trying literally every combination of things, and you can probably use mods to scrape all sorts of info about the game's state and look for clues that way. But the thing is, we don't know what, if anything they actually do. And as you said, there's a crapton of other stuff you can still do with mods. If you're going to put in the amount of effort it takes to do a 35 orb sunseed run, you're not going to need edit wands everywhere or health regen past the first NG+, and you're probably going to have enough hours in the game that all of that stuff is practically irrelevant because you'll know how to use a teleport flask to break out of the holy mountain without collapsing it and 90% of your games are going to make it to vault anyways just from practice. I think it's totally acceptable for the devs to say "we gave you this huge sandbox to do just about anything in and if you want to solve this one puzzle, you have to do it on our terms" because otherwise, someone would probably have figured it out by now and there wouldn't even be a puzzle to work on. Outside of this, I'm against this idea that everyone has to be able to see all the content. Sometimes it's cool to have exclusive stuff in a game that has really high barriers of entry. If you can't do it, you can watch a Twitch streamer do it. I'm saying this as someone who has maybe beaten Noita 3-4 times ever and probably will never do any of that stuff. I appreciate it exists for the people who want to put the time in to get there.
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Jan 17, 2022 02:20
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eke out posted:it's truly one of their best later patch gameplay decisions, such a massive spectrum of outcomes The classic 
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Jan 17, 2022 03:24
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Uh holy poo poo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMF4LdMOIeI
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Jan 17, 2022 04:46
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explanation: the recoil pushes you into the wall. the goal is to trick the game into removing some of the area around you like it does when you get stuck in something solid. the later version where it creates a tunnel is because the recoil pushes them far enough each update that the game still thinks you're stuck and thus erases another area. as long as you can keep the game thinking you're stuck somewhere, it'll keep erasing terrain. if you've ever seen speedruns that use zipping, same kind of deal
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Jan 17, 2022 04:58
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Wish the crash recovery system in this game were better. Was set to get 4 nightmare victories out of my last 5 attempts (with 3 in a row earlier), but the game crashed while I was in the middle of editing wands in a holy mountain. When I loaded back in, it had literally just deleted the holy mountain tiles and everything in it and left me freefalling directly into the heart of the next zone. Literally just a rectangular void where the mountain was, and it completely deleted my healing setup as well as I was in the middle of swapping wands. I get that player state and world state are synced at different rates but I wish restore would actually bring you back to a consistent state even if it was further back, and that it wouldn't just flip out so horribly sometimes. Usually when this happens, the player state and position (location in the world is saved with player state) will be loaded back, but the world state will be older so you're likely to be dropped in what was a previously cleared area now surrounded by all the enemies you had already killed and probably sitting on a propane tank. This instance where it straight up just gave up and removed two tiles worth of geometry and items is new to me though. For longer runs hard backups are pretty much a must which is already a shame. Standard runs are short and easy enough to not matter much. Nightmare runs are kind of in the middle where they're not long enough to make a backup for, but they are long enough and take enough concentration that a crash/save corruption is really frustrating. Mostly just annoyed because I had a good streak going and needed to vent a bit.
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Jan 17, 2022 08:06
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TooMuchAbstraction posted:Was that someone with a holy hand grenade wand? I guess it could've also been a berserked character with a less rare explosive. Nope. Just near the beginning poking around with the laser wand. No idea what exploded below but I don't think I caused it.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:04
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It looks like a regular bomb. You can see it bouncing into the fungus directly below you at the start of the gif.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:50
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Not mine... maybe an enemy had a wand or something  didn't have any bombs equipped.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:58
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The thing that most bugs me about the removed content for modding is the player ghosts carrying wands you've used in previous runs. It was always really fun to run into one of those and maybe find some cool wand you'd used before. But no way am I playing without mods.
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Jan 17, 2022 17:12
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Nah they don't seem to show up even unmodded now.
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Jan 17, 2022 17:31
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I think how that works is there is a threshold number of unmodded games you need to play to build up bones files before the ghosts start coming again, and then they have spawn locations signified by candles on the level where there is a chance they could show up. I play with mods all the time (mostly cosmetic stuff like pretty lanterns and cooler Hiisi) and I've started getting ghosts again after intentionally cultivating some "clean" deaths. I did have some bones files already but either the location or format changed on final release because the old bones didn't count.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:57
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There's also a mod that re-creates the ghost functionality for use in modded runs; sidesteps the entire thing by generating and using it's own bones files.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:07
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Speaking of mods, I usually play without, but sometimes on death the game requires me to restart because it thinks some mod settings changed. Did they just make that one message for any reason it has to restart, or is there actually something weird going on?
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Jan 17, 2022 19:39
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I prefer to use the unlimited reroll mod because I don't want to go through breaking the reroll machine just to get the same effect. Saves some time basically. Usually only use it when I want to do a longer run.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:28
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I think bones requires you have at least 10 unmodded deaths, but I'm not sure on the specifics.Red Minjo posted:Speaking of mods, I usually play without, but sometimes on death the game requires me to restart because it thinks some mod settings changed. Did they just make that one message for any reason it has to restart, or is there actually something weird going on? It just seems to do that even if you don't have any mods on. I have a particularly irritating bug on my desktop where restarting will often try to play the whole intro sequence again with the bird and egg stuff. Immediately hitting escape and New Game will usually start a real new game without the intro, but occasionally it'll just restart the intro. No mods enabled there either.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:52
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