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Perhaps it is you who is underreacting
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Jan 16, 2022 06:50
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im really just mad that justice league had the BATEMBARGO placed on it. that is where ALL of this nerd hate should be focused and magnified, so we can go back in time, and set right what is wrong.
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Jan 16, 2022 06:54
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bobjr posted:I still wish Better Off Ted got more. There's a business called Veridian Advisory near where I live and you know I read the sign in the Veridian Dynamics voice everytime I drive past.
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Jan 16, 2022 06:55
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I AM GRANDO posted:It’s like when he made a black character who was relentlessly physical and threatened white women with rape and said on the commentary that he was glad he made a cool villain that was like his version of Boba Fett. Oh, we haven't even gotten into Whedon's treatment of nonwhite characters, and how space that's supposedly half Chinese sure doesn't have many Asian characters show up.
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Jan 16, 2022 07:35
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No you see they're there just always off screen. Because Wheedon is a racist.
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Jan 16, 2022 08:00
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Maybe we’re being too hard on him. I mean, where was he supposed to find Asian actors in Vancouver?
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Jan 16, 2022 08:04
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GoutPatrol posted:Not really. After Buffy goes to UPN he goes more hands off and Marti Noxon becomes show runner. With the exception of the musical (which has Whedon's fingerprints all over) seasons 6-7 are seen as a decline. I only watched the show once and it was back in the early 00s, but I had to check and make sure one particular episode wasn't one of the listed ones (I did not recall the episode name). I remember "Normal Again" (Buffy is a regular young woman and in a psychiatric ward for her "delusions") as being one of the least feminist things I've ever seen. It really grossed me out then and still does now. That and the "Spike loves her so much he tries to rape her in her bathroom" episode are both pretty high ranking on the list of things that were blatantly not "feminism" even at the time. I've never rewatched it and still never intend to rewatch it due to the taste both of those episodes left in my mouth. I don't know how hands off "hands off" means exactly but I don't think that anybody who truly cared about young women and providing them a strong character to look up to would have allowed an episode that absolutely annihilates the young heroine's sense of agency like that* to air. To be completely clear, my Google shows me "Normal Again" wasn't one that he wrote. I didn't check for the Spike one. It is however an episode that is apparently a enormous touchstone for the online Buffy community and that tells me what I need to know about those people too. *this sentence is specifically referring to "Normal Again", but it's fun that it basically applies to both the things in this post, no? LITERALLY A BIRD has a new favorite as of 09:23 on Jan 16, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 09:13
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Whedon writes these punchy lines that can be fun, but they are so obviously his voice and not the characters. I end up thinking 'oh, that's a signature Joss Whedon line,' instead of 'that character said something funny.' He drowns out the characters' individuality and despite having ensemble casts all the characters end up sounding the same and it gets tedious. Edit: he doesn't write characters, he writes jokes and then makes the actors say them. deoju has a new favorite as of 09:30 on Jan 16, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 09:20
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:I only watched the show once and it was back in the early 00s, but I had to check and make sure one particular episode wasn't one of the listed ones. I remember "Normal Again" (Buffy is a regular young woman and in a psychiatric ward for her "delusions") as one of the least feminist things I've ever seen. It really grossed me out then and still does now. That and the "Spike loves her so much he tries to rape her in her bathroom" episode are both pretty high ranking on the list of things that were blatantly not "feminism" even at the time. I've never rewatched it and still never intend to rewatch it due to the taste both of those episodes left in my mouth. I don't know how hands off "hands off" means exactly but I don't think that anybody who truly cared about young women and providing them a strong character to look up to would have allowed an episode that absolutely annihilates the young heroine's sense of agency like that* to air. I'm not "to be fairing" here, but how much of Normal Again's problems were rooted in misogyny compared to just outdated portrayals of psychiatric care? The spike episode is indefensible, but that one I'm curious about if it has any leeway.
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Jan 16, 2022 09:24
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It's not misogyny the way you're thinking of it. I was watching it as a young woman and the message it was selling was that a young woman isn't actually capable of being strong and smart and powerful. She's in denial and crazy.
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Jan 16, 2022 09:30
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:It's not misogyny the way you're thinking of it. I was watching it as a young woman and the message it was selling was that a young woman isn't actually capable of being strong and smart and powerful. She's just in denial and crazy. I see, so the problems are actually completely SEPARATE from it being an early-2000s portrayal of a mental health facility. So doubly bad :P
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Jan 16, 2022 09:46
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Vandar posted:(Still angry that Dark Angel got canceled in favor of Firefly grumble.) Not as angry as I am that Terminator: SCC got cancelled in favour of Dollhouse.
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Jan 16, 2022 09:46
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BioEnchanted posted:I see, so the problems are actually completely SEPARATE from it being an early-2000s portrayal of a mental health facility. So doubly bad :P  yes, the facility depiction did not do it any favors. I left out that part because as you said, that's just early 00s mental health facility depiction for you
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Jan 16, 2022 09:49
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Jedit posted:Not as angry as I am that Terminator: SCC got cancelled in favour of Dollhouse. 
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Jan 16, 2022 10:04
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I'm glad that Firefly isn't being heralded as the best thing to ever grace our lives, but when did the goon hivemind shift to "IT loving SUCKS YOU SUCK"? Besides general hyperbole, I think given the current times people are now understandably leery of a show that presents Space Confederate outlaws as the heroes.
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Jan 16, 2022 10:40
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I thought it was overrated back when everyone thought it was cool. But now it's just a lame mainstream opinion.
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Jan 16, 2022 11:17
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I loved buffy and angel as a kid and i couldnt stand firefly when it came out. And now its been so long i dont even remember the reasons i hated it
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Jan 16, 2022 11:20
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Looking at promo stuff, im gonna guess young me thought the main character looked like a dork compared to angel
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Jan 16, 2022 11:22
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Jedit posted:Not as angry as I am that Terminator: SCC got cancelled in favour of Dollhouse. 
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Jan 16, 2022 11:23
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:
Both of the episodes you're talking about are season 6. I remember the fan reaction to that episode being... very mixed, but this is from my sister telling me about it from Buffy forums 20 years ago (I was a fan, but not that big.) I remember hating it when I watched it live and skipped it when rewatching. "Normal Again" looking back now just makes me think they watched the DS9 episode where a similar thing happens to Sisko and they tried to make their Buffy version. The dumb part was the ending where they tease a "well it wasn't real... or was it?" ending.
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Jan 16, 2022 11:38
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Vandar posted:Firefly was just a lovely attempt at trying to be Cowboy Bebop and Outlaw Star. When Firefly first came out, I was in my hardcore weeb phase, would not touch any media that didn't come out of Most Glorious Japan, and yeah, as soon as I saw "girl in a travel case" my brain instantly jumped to "Oh, they're ripping off Outlaw Star" and made it a point not to watch it for that very reason. Honestly, if I hadn't stumbled across the box set for like $10 at Walmart a number of years ago, I probably never would have seen the show at all.
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Jan 16, 2022 11:45
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GoutPatrol posted:Both of the episodes you're talking about are season 6. I remember the fan reaction to that episode being... very mixed, but this is from my sister telling me about it from Buffy forums 20 years ago (I was a fan, but not that big.) I remember hating it when I watched it live and skipped it when rewatching. That DS9 episode is so loving good. Sadly it has aged extremely well.
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Jan 16, 2022 11:47
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Hard for me to consider Firefly a breath of fresh air when Farscape was already around for a couple years at that point and did the rag tag bunch of outcasts on a ship together thing better. I guess there's lexx too but that's more like huffing a fart.
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Jan 16, 2022 11:49
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SCheeseman posted:I guess there's lexx too but that's more like huffing a fart. Now THAT'S a title that hasn't been uttered in many a moon. I remember seeing the ads for Lexx and thinking "That's the opposite of what I enjoy." A decade later a friend showed me one of the tv Lexx movies and thought "Oh, this is just edgelord Red Dwarf."
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Jan 16, 2022 12:12
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Lexx was great. 
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Jan 16, 2022 12:21
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Mr.Chill posted:Now THAT'S a title that hasn't been uttered in many a moon. Extremely horny edgelord Red Dwarf Lexx was crazy. Also horny.
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Jan 16, 2022 12:23
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Lady Radia posted:i think folks are overreacting a bit. firefly was a breath of fresh air for 2001-2002 and that general opinion lasted until 2010, when its form of fresh air became, well, stale. hollywood and most major tv shows follow very lame and outdated trends for longer than society does, so firefly felt like an unfairly transgressed show for about that time. now we can fairly revisit it and say it sucks, but was good for its time? why are we overreacting to this. It's not overreacting to say that something that is bad, isn't good Improbable Lobster has a new favorite as of 13:12 on Jan 16, 2022 |
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Jan 16, 2022 13:08
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Improbable Lobster posted:It's not overreacting to say that something that is bad, isn't good Good and bad are largely subjective, and acting like they aren't is as eye-rollingly tedious as the nerds who feel compelled to constantly trumpet how they felt X about Y before everyone else.
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Jan 16, 2022 13:43
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Pointing out that people's opinions are subjective is in fact the most eye-rollingly tedious
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Jan 16, 2022 13:45
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Martman posted:Pointing out that people's opinions are subjective is in fact the most eye-rollingly tedious Yeah, good thing I was replying to someone who was stating their claim as a fact and not their opinion.
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Jan 16, 2022 13:50
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Whedon has had many lesser imitators and eventually twisted into a grotesque parody of himself, but his approach to writing in the late 90s + early 2000s was memorable and unique. I think the medium has mostly moved past him though.
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Jan 16, 2022 13:51
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the_steve posted:Yeah, good thing I was replying to someone who was stating their claim as a fact and not their opinion. I was not doing that you tedious bitch
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Jan 16, 2022 13:53
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AceOfFlames posted:Besides general hyperbole, I think given the current times people are now understandably leery of a show that presents Space Confederate outlaws as the heroes. It's really dumb that there's a virus/gas that kills 99.99% of all people and turns the remaining 0.01% into immortal cannibal gang-rapists and somehow no one noticed that in the lab.
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Jan 16, 2022 13:59
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GreenMetalSun posted:It's really dumb that there's a virus/gas that kills 99.99% of all people and turns the remaining 0.01% into immortal cannibal gang-rapists and somehow no one noticed that in the lab. I don't think the movie was ever particular well-regarded? In the show, there's no virus/gas/whatever, there are just zombie-like people and no one knows why (which is fine, imo).
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Jan 16, 2022 14:30
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the_steve posted:Yeah, good thing I was replying to someone who was stating their claim as a fact and not their opinion.
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Jan 16, 2022 14:34
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When I was younger I really enjoyed the first four or so seasons of Buffy but I did also realize Whedon had some weird hang ups about sex. Since basically anyone who loved each other in Whedon stories met horrible fates or turned into monsters. Turned out the signs were there all along. I get why in the late 90s and early 2000s his stuff was considered feminist. Female hero, who was flawed, but kicked rear end and had (some) agency. He just never evolved.
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Jan 16, 2022 14:46
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You can see why Buffy rules but Whedon's output in summary does have an off-putting undercurrent of "female protagonist only becomes strong through getting her rear end kicked for two hours" so that the viewer gets to enjoy the abuse as much as her triumph.
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Jan 16, 2022 14:51
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Lexx owned.Jedit posted:Not as angry as I am that Terminator: SCC got cancelled in favour of Dollhouse. Sarah Connor Chronicles was way better than it had any right to be and it's way better than the Terminator franchise deserved. I should revisit it sometime and give it another watch.
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Jan 16, 2022 14:56
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Since it has been mentioned I am now obligated to post this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EKIK5ei_Lhg
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Jan 16, 2022 15:06
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exquisite tea posted:You can see why Buffy rules but Whedon's output in summary does have an off-putting undercurrent of "female protagonist only becomes strong through getting her rear end kicked for two hours" so that the viewer gets to enjoy the abuse as much as her triumph. There's a strong vibe that Whedon gets off on the abuse and considers that a necessity for a female protagonist to 'earn' the right to be strong. It just came off as feminist at a time when most shows had female protagonists clearly begrudgingly to get their asses kicked and be saved by the male ones.
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Jan 16, 2022 15:06
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