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The problem with the "save the BBC" arguments imo is that they're all a bit irrelevant? The news section will continue to churn out far-right propaganda until you fix what the Tories have done to it. It will continue to be a state broadcaster in all the bad ways until it's not beholden to the culture secretary. The institutional expertise has already long been purged in favour of gobshite sycophants in every department. It hasn't produced good media in quite some time, if you consider planet earth's small-c conservative bent to be as major a flaw as many do. The good developing/imported media sections were killed off ages ago, bar radio 6. The world service is going nowhere because the security services are obviously not going to allow themselves to be kneecapped like that. The licence fee is deeply unpopular and an obviously regressive stealth tax, as many people have pointed out. Repairing it would require a massive restructuring with massive management and executive staff recruitment to compensate the necessary mass dismissal of everyone who was fine with the last ten years of it all. You'd need to ensure community involvement in a democratic structure, protect its charter through the commons, and somehow lock in an income stream that's both equitable and free from easy political interference. So after repeating all these arguments from the last few pages, what part of this massive amount of work is going to be easier to do while the BBC continues to use whatever shreds of a reputation it has left to shank anyone that might want better things? The lesson of the last decade is that nostalgia is a powerful tool. Id find it much easier to go out and campaign on "bring back the BBC, except the bits everyone hates" when it's been dead for a while than I would on "keep this hideous monstrosity on life support" as it keeps trying to lynch everyone who isn't a Tory donor. The good things, and the potential, are so far gone that it's not worth salvaging.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:13
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Would TV tax be more progressive if it were charged by the inch?
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Jan 17, 2022 15:20
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Would TV tax be more progressive if it were charged by the inch? How many inches of TV did you watch last year?
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Jan 17, 2022 15:22
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ThomasPaine posted:It's hardly a tax if you can just choose not to bother paying it. If you think being easy to evade makes something not a tax, I know a couple of billionaires who who be interested in sponsoring you to write a dictionary.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:22
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josh04 posted:I don't think people arguing that Labour isn't worth saving think that when it collapses there shouldn't be a left-wing political party. My rebuttal to that is a point made earlier, in that there can't be a genuinely socialised state broadcaster until we have a genuine democracy.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:30
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For all the poo poo talking about the BBC I'm surprised no one has mentioned their awful morning weekday programming. Homes Under The Hammer encouraging everyone to be a parasitic landlord. The loving awful repossession shows, an utter cancer on society, the evils of benefit fraud, all that shite that is genuinely nasty. Good news is a privately owned BBC will still do all that poo poo because it's cheap & horrendously bleak.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:32
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NotJustANumber99 posted:Would TV tax be more progressive if it were charged by the inch? There used to be a black and white discount, so maybe? Should be full-on means tested if it has to exist. I know 'BUYING FLATSCREEN TVS ON BENEFITS' is still a trope (despite non-flatscreens not being available for years) but a decent TV investment is a very, very efficient entertainment-per-pound use for someone who doesn't have much disposable income, especially if there are children.
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Jan 17, 2022 15:45
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fuctifino posted:On the subject of weed, yesterday was my 13th anniversary of being sentenced for my cannabis crimes. I managed to find the local newspaper's text of the article: Barry Foster posted:lol literally the first sentence, I've not even read the rest but it's already proving your point What the gently caress does he think Marxism is 
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Jan 17, 2022 15:52
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quote:infantile Marxist disorder Mods please
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Jan 17, 2022 15:55
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lol https://twitter.com/brokenbottleboy/status/1483085770223140868
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Jan 17, 2022 15:58
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https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1483046091218108425?t=QCrge0zJM2uhwDOYUZljPg&s=19quote:Six UK companies have signed up to the trial so far, with other firms said to be considering it including Unilever, which produces consumer goods like Dove soap and Vaseline, and Morrisons for its employees in its headquarters. Bobby Deluxe fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 16:02
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Ha ha ha ha what the gently caress, you live down the street from my brother. We need to be very smart and separate this new group of people I call Globalist Elitist Elders from capitalism. Please stop calling me a conspiracy nutter.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:03
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CWS is a loving genius  https://twitter.com/Coldwar_Steve/status/1483090839815569417 Bobby Deluxe posted:Ha ha ha ha what the gently caress, you live down the street from my brother. I escaped just over 5 years ago. I'm now in 'posh' Okehampton.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:06
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drat capitalists they've ruined capitalism!
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Jan 17, 2022 16:06
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Failed Imagineer posted:Incredible thread of a massive FBPE lib trying to create a worldview which implicates billionaires but contains zero critique or mention of capitalism The replies are genuinely amazing attempts at coming up with alternative names for capitalism.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:12
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Bobby Deluxe posted:https://twitter.com/MetroUK/status/1483046091218108425?t=QCrge0zJM2uhwDOYUZljPg&s=19 to be fair, the vast majority of people working in Morrison’s stores are going to be on hourly rates not salary, so a 4-day week wouldn’t affect them one way or another anyway
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Jan 17, 2022 16:14
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Bobby Deluxe posted:Ha ha ha ha what the gently caress, you live down the street from my brother. Duhh Marxism is all people being homeless equally and uh blacks having a say in political destiny. Otherwise it's uh... Scary and bad. Also big tax.
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Jan 17, 2022 16:21
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Julio Cruz posted:to be fair, the vast majority of people working in Morrison’s stores are going to be on hourly rates not salary, so a 4-day week wouldn’t affect them one way or another anyway So they should get a 25% pay increase instead then, surely? Edit: so they can get the same money in 4 days instead of 5 you see
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Jan 17, 2022 16:46
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https://twitter.com/MirrorPolitics/status/1483087646134050820 e: This is amazing https://twitter.com/Cassetteboy/status/1483018824983232514 fuctifino fucked around with this message at 16:53 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 16:49
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 Apologies for the meme and that. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 16:56 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 16:54
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josh04 posted:I don't think people arguing that Labour isn't worth saving think that when it collapses there shouldn't be a left-wing political party. What in the entirety of the history of the far left makes you think there will be a left-wing political party?
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Jan 17, 2022 16:54
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Rolling Stone so pinch of salt, but this definitely fits what I've seen from some of the more easily swayed or opaque children's charities, and it wouldn't surprise me in the least that it's part of a deliberate Home Office attack on encrypted comms by portraying it only of use for (non government approved) nonces.
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Jan 17, 2022 17:52
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feedmegin posted:What in the entirety of the history of the far left makes you think there will be a left-wing political party? if there's left wing people and none of them can form a party that's on them tbh like if the left wants to call it quits and give up it needs to be made official so we can all just play vidya and watch spiderman
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Jan 17, 2022 18:03
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https://twitter.com/BillWilliams01/status/1483103340947025926
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Jan 17, 2022 18:09
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Regarde Aduck posted:if there's left wing people and none of them can form a party that's on them tbh That is not what I was getting at. The point is there will be 500 different versions of the People's Front of Judea Party with 3 people in them each and nobody will ever get anything done any more than they have already in the last <x> decades.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:12
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That seems a lot like arriving at the idea that the left should know their place and serve the center because they can't possibly organize anything themselves. Either there is something unique about the composition of the labour party or following its dissolution, a new party would form. I don't really think there can be another conclusion other than actually believing that the left cannot organize anything and only centrists can do politics. OwlFancier fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 18:14
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https://twitter.com/LondonEconomic/status/1483107175425888258
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Jan 17, 2022 18:23
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feedmegin posted:That is not what I was getting at. The point is there will be 500 different versions of the People's Front of Judea Party with 3 people in them each and nobody will ever get anything done any more than they have already in the last <x> decades.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:32
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Not as though anything will come of it, probably... but https://twitter.com/david_conn/status/1483130115852800004
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Jan 17, 2022 18:34
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OwlFancier posted:That seems a lot like arriving at the idea that the left should know their place and serve the center because they can't possibly organize anything themselves. It's not like centrists have exactly done a good job at replacing Labour either, but, well, *gestures exhaustedly at the five million far left parties out there*. Look, this isn't theory, it's how things have actually been, for decades now. Assuming Labour goes away and then everyone on the far left just coalesces into one new party is a pipe dream and you only have to look at observable reality to see that.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:36
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I think a better explanation is that if you want a "big tent" party at the moment you just join labour, and then the lovely people in charge of it use you to get their lovely mates elected and do nothing to help you while a bunch of other people tell you that you have to stay in because there cannot ever be anything better. And as long as that is happening, there is no impetus to organize an alternative. Labour was not born at the beginning of time, it arose out of need because there was a political desire that it was commonly felt was going unfulfilled, and I do not think you will see an alternative form as long as it exists and is regarded as "the only credibletm left party"
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Jan 17, 2022 18:39
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I think it's more a matter of either starting small but pure and getting stomped out immediately and forever, or infiltrating the existing tainted big one and twisting it leftwards by making your presence indispensable.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:49
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I think the last collaborative issue-based storyline Eastenders did was the coercive control/domestic violence one where Chantelle was eventually murdered by her husband? I also think it's very sweet that people think Youtube isn't going to fully move to a subscription service evetually. It already has that option. And all 15 people who like watching videos of men making model railways in their sheds and ignore the Jordan Peterson videos will happily pay for it whilst arguing this is completely different from the BBC licence.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:49
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Szmitten posted:I think it's more a matter of either starting small but pure and getting stomped out immediately and forever, or infiltrating the existing tainted big one and twisting it leftwards by making your presence indispensable. That rather falls down when they are seemingly entirely willing to dispense with the indispensible and lose, or alternatively win anyway because the press managed to gently caress up the tories more.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:53
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Lady Demelza posted:I think the last collaborative issue-based storyline Eastenders did was the coercive control/domestic violence one where Chantelle was eventually murdered by her husband? Youtube will never go full subscription unless something major changes lol its current advertising model has made it one of the most profitable mega corps ever off the back off people who make content for it for free/peanuts
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Jan 17, 2022 18:56
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I think also that youtube probably at the moment understands that their key advantage is that laissez faire approach to content production, which allows all of the actual innovation to be done at the risk of the producers (and funded by them) while youtube can simply capitalize off the most effective ones. Which is also my argument except that I would rather there wasn't a risk for the producers and also the platform wasn't getting rich off it.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:02
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Lady Demelza posted:I also think it's very sweet that people think Youtube isn't going to fully move to a subscription service evetually. It already has that option. And all 15 people who like watching videos of men making model railways in their sheds and ignore the Jordan Peterson videos will happily pay for it whilst arguing this is completely different from the BBC licence. Absolutely never gonna happen. The subscription numbers are awful for Youtube Premium while their ad revenue last quarter was $7billion. The moment they go subscription-only they just lose most of that revenue to Twitch/Facebook/Instagram et al.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:07
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OwlFancier posted:I think a better explanation is that if you want a "big tent" party at the moment you just join labour, and then the lovely people in charge of it use you to get their lovely mates elected and do nothing to help you while a bunch of other people tell you that you have to stay in because there cannot ever be anything better. That doesn't make the plan to replace it with a new big tent party any better. That new big tent will be just as susceptible to soft-right entryism of the kind that has been killing Labour for the last 30 years. Szmitten posted:I think it's more a matter of either starting small but pure and getting stomped out immediately and forever, or infiltrating the existing tainted big one and twisting it leftwards by making your presence indispensable. Are you not paying attention for the last five or six years? The left cannot make themselves indispensable to the Labour right, because the right would rather be destroyed than win with the help of the left. Jedit fucked around with this message at 19:13 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 19:10
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Jedit posted:That doesn't make the plan to replace it with a new big tent party any better. That new big tent will be just as susceptible to soft-right entryism of the kind that has been killing Labour for the last 30 years. Possibly, but I don't think the idea of destroying it and trying to make a new, better one is any less absurd than the idea that the current one can be reformed.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:11
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OwlFancier posted:I think a better explanation is that if you want a "big tent" party at the moment you just join labour, and then the lovely people in charge of it use you to get their lovely mates elected and do nothing to help you while a bunch of other people tell you that you have to stay in because there cannot ever be anything better. Labour is bankrupt, swiftly losing members, and led by charisma-free obvious idiots. Ones who will always be returning fewer MPs to parliament, and so supporting a smaller of career staff posts, than any alternative. This would seem to me to make changing course absolutely politics on easy mode, something that will naturally happen unless some unpredictable event prevents it. In contrast, the consensus here seems to be the task of taking on and defeating those evident losers is impossible. I guess there was some post that explained all that in incontrovertible detail that I missed?
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Jan 17, 2022 19:11
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