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Is Joss Whedon the worst sexual abuser to write X-Men comics?
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Jan 17, 2022 18:34
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| # ? May 27, 2024 00:29 |
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is Joss Whedon the worst sexual abuser to write X-Men comics? Hard to say, but Scott Lobdell is up there.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:39
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is Joss Whedon the worst sexual abuser to write X-Men comics? Wait. Are there sexual abuse claims about him? I think everything has been "he's a verbally abusive rear end in a top hat and fake feminist." Is there an assault or something?
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Jan 17, 2022 18:59
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danbanana posted:Wait. Are there sexual abuse claims about him? I think everything has been "he's a verbally abusive rear end in a top hat and fake feminist." Is there an assault or something? He pressured women who worked for him to have sex with him. Nobody has called him a rapist.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:04
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I AM GRANDO posted:He pressured women who worked for him to have sex with him. Nobody has called him a rapist. Using authority to coerce people into sex is rape. Well, assuming it worked, otherwise I guess it's probably classed as harassment.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:07
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I AM GRANDO posted:Is Joss Whedon the worst sexual abuser to write X-Men comics? Ellis has to be up there
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Jan 17, 2022 19:09
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Oh yeah, I forgot all about Ellis.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:10
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Michelle Trachtenburg recently came out and said that when she worked on Buffy, Whedon was specifically not allowed to be alone with her, which is about three layers of nonspecific "yikes".
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Jan 17, 2022 19:18
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Take this to Industry Terribleness please. edit: forgot the name of the other thread, sorry
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Jan 17, 2022 19:33
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Finally read the last two issues of Children of the Atom on Unlimited. I don't blame nearly everyone from checking out of it, but I dunno, I kind of liked it. Yes, it feels like a comic version of an 00-10s MTV teen drama, complete with the mutant coming out scene to ultimately understanding parents followed with an actual coming out scene, which took place after a scene where the white girl comes to understand cultural appropriation is wrong and apologizes for it. But I dunno, it feels like hearts were all in the right place, and feel like these are good scenes to have out in the world, even if it's the most positive totally unsloppy version of these sorts of things that are often a lot more complicated in reality Like this probably would've been better off if Marvel had given it maybe 12 issues, or maybe not wasted so much of the first four issues on the team not being mutants when most people probably got it after the first issue, and then just barrelling through all the consequences of that in basically half an issue (since the first half of issue 6 is Carmen's visit to the Hellfire Gala [hey they finally got there]). Yeah, I definitely liked it, as messy as it is. It's an interesting team with nifty powers and some good dynamics, wish there was more exploration of them all.
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Jan 18, 2022 12:34
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How Wonderful! posted:Take this to Industry Terribleness please. Scott Lobell's X-Men run definitely counts as industry terribleness, in my opinion. 
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Jan 18, 2022 15:14
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Rick posted:Finally read the last two issues of Children of the Atom on Unlimited. It could've been a lot better than it was but it wasn't.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:47
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Rick posted:Finally read the last two issues of Children of the Atom on Unlimited. It was 100% a Marvel After-School Special in a lot of ways, but I didn't hate it Like, it wasn't entirely what I'm looking for in my superhero punchman fightbooks, but the fact that it existed was cool and good. Part of what makes the Krakoa Era of X-books good is that it gives creators an opportunity to try new poo poo; some of that stuff won't work (hello, Fallen Angels), but I'd rather see them swing and miss than just churn out the same poo poo.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:49
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For those with Unlimited, Marvel apparently released today's X Lives of Wolverine on it.
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Jan 19, 2022 16:07
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This book definitely makes Some Changes. But the premise seems... kinda fun.
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Jan 19, 2022 16:23
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I didn't care for it. But I haven't liked anything Percy's written for Wolverine or X-Force so it's not a surprise. People wanna talk about how writers hate Beast, well, pretty sure he's one of them. Making Beast a tremendous rear end in a top hat doesn't do anything for the character.
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Jan 19, 2022 17:18
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At least Hank is being written consistently? Though the response to The Five's concerns is odd given we've seen The Five basically function as independent from all authority multiple times in the Krakoa Era. They've defied Council rules and done their own poo poo when they feel it is ethically necessary so I don't know why Hank's threat would be followed. My biggest takeaway from the issue was Logan was the person who cut Xavier's umbilical, just pages after saying Xavier was basically his dad, which brings up all sorts of "getting lessons on time travel from mr. i'm-my-own-grandfather" stuff. I think the overall concept is fun but if it's going to be used to do stupid retcon poo poo like that, I'm less excited than when it was announced. They hyped this series as having big implications and setting up a lot of things going forward but at least for what it's shown so far, I'm hesitant to think there's a Moira-level thing coming out of it.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:04
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I think Percy's Beast is on a completely different level than anyone else's. It's like if a new writer came in and rebooted, I dunno, Seinfeld, and was like, "well, George was always kind of an obnoxious jerk, so I'm going to have him go on a shooting spree and then torture Jerry in a parking garage for three episodes." It's just really over the top and imo unpleasant, and in general I don't think turning longstanding and popular superhero characters into big blue Donald Rumsfeld war criminals is a sound or interesting move. I read the first issue of this because it was up for free on Marvel Unlimited but I'm gonna say I'm still happy not reading most of the Percy stuff.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:15
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I thought the first issue was fine. It does seem to still be missing something, so hopefully the next week will provide a clearer connection between this and Inferno, as some have teased. As for Beast...I personally prefer the more sympathetic version of the character from the cartoon myself, but...even though it's not a pleasant experience, I can see why Percy is taking Beast in this direction when you review the character's history: https://www.comicsxf.com/2021/04/20/beasts-dark-descent-from-the-silver-age-to-benjamin-percys-x-force/ That doesn't mean this was a necessary outcome, mind you. Just not an illogical one.
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Jan 19, 2022 19:21
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But now being pretty much just "gently caress you and shut up" to the Five doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense if he tried to give them a logical reason. I mean, do you think Hope Summers would actually put up with that poo poo? She'd be the one telling Beast to gently caress off, not the other way around.
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Jan 19, 2022 19:47
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Is the setup here that Beast is the big bad in this story? The "they lied" or whatever that Red says wasn't particularly clear. I think that'd be a satisfying ending to everything Percy has done (which I admittedly stopped reading after 8-10 issues) and I'm okay with what it does going forward because I do not care about Hank.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:23
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Codependent Poster posted:But now being pretty much just "gently caress you and shut up" to the Five doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense if he tried to give them a logical reason. Technically, these messages are old. If anything, this is one of the contributing factors to The Five deciding to act independently.
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Jan 19, 2022 20:33
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Look, if Percy wants to write Wolverine as Doctor Samuel Beckett, I'm not really gonna complain. Oh boy
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Jan 19, 2022 22:39
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WaffleZombie posted:Look, if Percy wants to write Wolverine as Doctor Samuel Beckett, I'm not really gonna complain. That or Forrest Gump of mutant history but your example is probably more apt
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Jan 19, 2022 23:28
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With the sliding timescale, Charles must have been born in like 1980, right? Why is the X-Mansion dressed like a manor house from the 1890s? They should have a big-rear end TV and an Atari in the corner.
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Jan 19, 2022 23:34
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I haven't read the Percy comic, but I read Duggan's Marauders/X-Men crossover-sort-of-tie-in with Devil's Reign. That was good and I want to see what happens next.
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Jan 19, 2022 23:37
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Rochallor posted:With the sliding timescale, Charles must have been born in like 1980, right? Why is the X-Mansion dressed like a manor house from the 1890s? They should have a big-rear end TV and an Atari in the corner. Pretty sure Charles Xavier is not my age, though we are equally bald.
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Jan 19, 2022 23:46
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danbanana posted:Pretty sure Charles Xavier is not my age, though we are equally bald. Would you describe yourself as a jerk?
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Jan 20, 2022 00:14
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Rochallor posted:With the sliding timescale, Charles must have been born in like 1980, right? Why is the X-Mansion dressed like a manor house from the 1890s? They should have a big-rear end TV and an Atari in the corner. Charles is one of a handful of characters on the roster who, like Magneto, can go ahead and be his non-sliding timeline age. Even before Krakoa, he'd gone through a clone body or two.
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Jan 20, 2022 00:44
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How Wonderful! posted:I think Percy's Beast is on a completely different level than anyone else's. It's like if a new writer came in and rebooted, I dunno, Seinfeld, and was like, "well, George was always kind of an obnoxious jerk, so I'm going to have him go on a shooting spree and then torture Jerry in a parking garage for three episodes." It's just really over the top and imo unpleasant, and in general I don't think turning longstanding and popular superhero characters into big blue Donald Rumsfeld war criminals is a sound or interesting move. I read the first issue of this because it was up for free on Marvel Unlimited but I'm gonna say I'm still happy not reading most of the Percy stuff. it's particularly weird to me given that the characterization of Beast that stands out to me the most in my head is how he was written in the Fraction/Gillen/early Aaron era around a decade ago, where he was the voice of moral reason that refused to countenance X-Force and the other unsavory things Scott was doing to protect the remaining mutant population
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Jan 20, 2022 01:34
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Barry Convex posted:it's particularly weird to me given that the characterization of Beast that stands out to me the most in my head is how he was written in the Fraction/Gillen/early Aaron era around a decade ago, where he was the voice of moral reason that refused to countenance X-Force and the other unsavory things Scott was doing to protect the remaining mutant population Yeah me too. And I thought that characterization worked really well because it made him antagonistic insofar as he thought the other X-Men were crossing an ethical line he wasn't prepared to cross. So it was this interesting tension between "well, in terms of narrative structure he's IMPEDING action and as readers we WANT action and we also are positioned to sympathize with Scott" and "well, maybe Wolverine shouldn't have a teen-heavy murder squad" in a way that actually felt like it was saying something about compromise and radicalism and how people actually craft a life within their political convictions. It feels like all Percy took from that era was "ok, so he's a jerk who sucks, let's run with that." I think Bendis was the first to really have him shift from the force holding others BACK to the guy rashly pushing forward with irresponsible schemes out of hubris (I know people bring up his original fur transformation but that was... weird necessity in a very weird bronze age story) and imo it's a reading that's not really borne out by the preceding like, 50 years of Beast stories. But then again, and this is just my assessment, Fraction and Gillen are better writers than Bendis and all three are kind of much better writers than Percy, who I feel has the chops for a good pulpy Hama-style throwback Wolverine solo run but flounders when trying to write about realpolitik and moral complexity.
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Jan 20, 2022 01:44
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Now that you mention it, it does seem like there were a few years where Beast was routinely crossing ethical lines out of desperation. He'd be trying to go outside the box to deal with things like the Legacy virus and M-Day, then somebody else would occasionally weaponize his crazier schemes. That made a lot of sense to me, particularly in conjunction with the existence of Dark Beast. You can sort of see Percy's line of thinking here. Whedon and Ellis's "too smart for his own good but generally benevolent" Hank gives way to "Scott's increasingly angry conscience" Hank in the Utopia arc, who in turn becomes Black Ops Hank in Ellis's Secret Avengers, which is followed in turn by "gently caress it, let's break the timestream, when has time-travel ever been a problem" Hank in Bendis's X-Men. Then Young Hank, under Bendis's pen, turned out to have just as much of a problem with the ol' good-idea/bad-idea filter as Old Hank, which seems to have informed Hickman's brief portrayal of the character in the "Time Runs Out" arc. It's a gradual, years-long process of minimizing the good things about Hank as a character, which has now reached its nadir with Percy's fuckin' Tom Clancy's Rainbow Hank. The good thing is that a writer could fix it by having Simon Williams show up, smack Hank on the back of the head, then point at him and say "Stop" in a firm tone of voice like he's disciplining a puppy.
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Jan 20, 2022 02:16
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I think Percy is setting Beast up for redemption but to make it feel earned, he's going to take him to a real nadir first.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:35
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So sure Hank is pretty wild and not great in current X-Force, but what about Jean’s ongoing affair with Wolverine that apparently nobody cares about???. I don’t know if its been commented on in a book I haven’t read or what but it seems pretty inconsistent with how she’s being written in the other ongoing books.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:52
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What, they're a polycule now.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:54
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It's as canon as it's ever going to get that Wolverine and Cyclops and Jean are in a poly relationship, it's not an affair.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:56
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Now Cyke and Wolvie need to get over themselves and smooch a bit too.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:59
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Codependent Poster posted:But now being pretty much just "gently caress you and shut up" to the Five doesn't make any sense. It would make more sense if he tried to give them a logical reason. However, I believe that...technically speaking...X-Force are supposed to be allowed a ton of leeway in their operations, no questions asked, no oversight required. Technically speaking, they outrank even the Council when it comes to, eh, homeland security.
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Jan 20, 2022 05:59
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Given the Gabby Kinney plot in New Mutants, I am a little disappointed that the Five didn't uninstall all Omega Red's poo poo on their own recognizance.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:01
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Synthbuttrange posted:Now Cyke and Wolvie need to get over themselves and smooch a bit too. So much would've been solved by this in mutant history.
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Jan 20, 2022 06:15
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