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Ror posted:this is canon, zack gets shot by a couple cops Not in the liberal, powerful, future
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Jan 17, 2022 05:33
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I began today with the goal of restarting a FFXV playthrough; I bought it on the PC a few years back but the performance wasn't great, so I sidelined it. Now that I've beefed up my rig in pretty much every respect and moved the game to an SSD it runs quite well. Welcome. You'll love FF7R. You made the right decision.
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Jan 17, 2022 05:50
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I am replaying LR and it is ridiculous how the combat system does what XV wanted to do but better. With the proper setup boss fight feel like an actual anime battle.
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Jan 17, 2022 05:52
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ImpAtom posted:I am replaying LR and it is ridiculous how the combat system does what XV wanted to do but better. With the proper setup boss fight feel like an actual anime battle. I feel like 15 was too afraid to be anything close to demanding for timing/action game inputs. LR you can do some bullshit with frame perfect guards/dodges/attacks.
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Jan 17, 2022 05:53
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Ror posted:this is canon, zack gets shot by a couple cops Zack is just that guy who was off-screen owned by Sephiroth in 3 seconds, never really meant that much to Aerith, and died to two Shinra mooks. Never forget.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:05
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He's super cool
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Jan 17, 2022 06:08
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NikkolasKing posted:Zack is just that guy who was off-screen owned by Sephiroth in 3 seconds, never really meant that much to Aerith, and died to two Shinra mooks. Crisis Core is canon and Aerith loved that guy. I'm sorry, Claerith fans. Seethe.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:10
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Could play both. XV for when you just want to chill out with your bros and VIIR for serious play.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:14
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Crisis Core is canon and Aerith loved that guy. I'm sorry, Claerith fans. Seethe. Even in FF7 doesn't she say "He was the first guy I ever liked/loved" (in japanese at least, I think in the english translation she calls him her first boyfriend but that implies a lot more) so she deffo liked Zack, but uhhh it's entirely possible for somebody to like two people ZMB, Aerith loved Zack and she also comes to love Cloud before she dies  she's just confused as to what Cloud's whole deal is at first
Xad fucked around with this message at 06:58 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 06:31
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Xad posted:Cloud loved Zack So you read my fanfic!
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Jan 17, 2022 06:36
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Xad posted:Even in FF7 doesn't she say "He was the first guy I ever liked/loved" (in japanese at least, I think in the english translation she calls him her first boyfriend but that implies a lot more) so she deffo liked Zack The English version says: quote:Aeris I can't speak for the Japanese script. At any rate, what ZenMasterBullshit said is true, though. Just as how Crisis Core retcons Zack's death as being from two random mooks into an epic battle against hundreds of soldiers, it also retcons Zack and Aerith's relationship as "Yeah we dated for a while" to "We were so very much in love, love love love, he was my one true love and I only was interested in Cloud because he acted like the man I really loved."
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Jan 17, 2022 06:58
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Xad posted:Even in FF7 doesn't she say "He was the first guy I ever liked/loved" (in japanese at least, I think in the english translation she calls him her first boyfriend but that implies a lot more) so she deffo liked Zack, but uhhh it's entirely possible for somebody to like two people ZMB, Cloud loved Zack and she also comes to love Cloud before she dies What she likes in Cloud is the Zack bits he's taken on. When she leaves she even talks about how she wishes she had met Cloud. TO get to know Him and not the persona he's clearly bolted on. She didn't know the guy and knew it. Of course 7R can go another way with this and has definitely set up a much more personable relationship between them but in the OG she was aware of how little she really understood him.
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Jan 17, 2022 06:59
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The Cloud of Disk 1 was not some alien being to who he was after the Lifestream. Nobody in the party is like 'wow, you're totally not the same person now, Cloud!" Of course he's not identical after he gets his head on straight but it's not like Aerith never knew him at all. She understands there's something wrong with him but she cares for him enough to want to get to know what's wrong and fix it. "Cloud" and Zack really, in the end, aren't alike at all. Superficial similarities and nothing else.
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Jan 17, 2022 07:08
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Yeah, the way I see it is the dorky moments are Cloud being himself while the cockiness is the tacked on Zack/SOLDIER stuff. I think it's funny reading people posting online that they're upset Cloud isn't actually this gruff badass they had imagined him to be, the kind of person that thinks Cloud dancing in the Honey Bee Inn was way out of character. Cloud has been a huge dork since 1997.
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Jan 17, 2022 08:10
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The odd thing is, Cloud initially comes across as this too-cool-for-school lone wolf mercenary who doesn't need anyone and is rude and dismissive. But he totally did not get that from Zack, who is incredibly affable and enthusiastic and supportive of people. And the "real" Cloud is this awkward, kinda dorky shy kid. So broke-brain Cloud is really presenting himself as what he wanted to be as a SOLDIER- honestly more like the (real or imagined) way Sephiroth acts, and who Cloud wanted to be like, than Zack. But in the end it IS all just an act, an so the awkward dorky Cloud shines through even when he's trying to be a badass mercenary, because he doesn't really know how to not be awkward and dorky.
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Jan 17, 2022 08:22
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Mustang posted:Yeah, the way I see it is the dorky moments are Cloud being himself while the cockiness is the tacked on Zack/SOLDIER stuff. Until fairly recently, people misremembered a lot about FF7. People also got Tifa and Aerith's personalities mixed up too. Part of this is probably due to the EU stuff like Advent Children and even tertiary stuff like Kingdom Hearts playing into those misconceptions but I'm also pretty sure it's because people were dumb kids with zero reading comprehension when they first played FF7 and they had to contend with what's considered a pretty bad translation too.
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Jan 17, 2022 09:09
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NikkolasKing posted:Nobody in the party is like 'wow, you're totally not the same person now, Cloud!" They in fact say the exact opposite! quote:Tifa For what it's worth, the game presents Aerith as initially being interested in Cloud purely due to curiosity and slight confusion as to why his mannerisms are like Zack's. On the Gold Saucer date: quote:......first off, it bothered me how you looked exactly alike. She says they "look exactly alike" but I think she means like how they dressed (the SOLDIER First Class uniform), their body type (Cloud was kind of scrawny when he was just a Shinra grunt but he got buffed by the Jenova/Mako infusion), the "Mako eyes," and how they presented themselves, obviously Zack doesn't really look that similar to Cloud as far as face/hair. Anyway then we get the iconic line. quote:But you're different. "Things are different," probably means that if she was still hung up on Zack, she would've been totally fine with Cloud the way he was. He would have almost been like a replacement for Zack, since his general appearance was similar, and he acted the same. But it's been five years since she's seen or even heard from him, not only that but she was a teenager when she was dating him but now she's in her early 20s. She's just not that into him anymore, and she's more interested in Cloud. But she wants to meet the real Cloud, not the fake persona he has at the time. Though, again, this is all going purely off FF7 as it was originally. Since Aerith and Zack's VAs are married, Square probably is likely to go all in on the idea that Zack is Aerith's true love, and she only likes Cloud as a friend and just wants to help him find himself. Which I 'm not a fan of, but nothing I can do about it.
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Jan 17, 2022 11:06
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Im okay with aerith hooking up with zack (and tifa in a polycule of course) bc cloud needs to marry barret
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Jan 17, 2022 11:44
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mandatory lesbian posted:Im okay with aerith hooking up with zack (and tifa in a polycule of course) bc cloud needs to marry barret cloud would make a godawful stepdad though
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Jan 17, 2022 11:50
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EightFlyingCars posted:cloud would make a godawful stepdad though Can he honestly do worse than leaving her all alone to run a bar in a slum?
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Jan 17, 2022 11:57
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NikkolasKing posted:Can he honestly do worse than leaving her all alone to run a bar in a slum? she's getting early job experience, what's the problem
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Jan 17, 2022 12:06
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NikkolasKing posted:Can he honestly do worse than leaving her all alone to run a bar in a slum? Please don't start with that. Barret thinks about it all the time. He wants to be with Marlene...but he's gotta fight. Cause if he doesn't, the Planet's gonna die. So he'll keep on fighting. But he is worried about Marlene. He really just wants to be with her, always. See? I'm going in circles, now.
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Jan 17, 2022 12:44
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The Japanese script us a lot clearer. Aerith refers to Zack as the first person she fell in love with. Later when meeting Zacks parents she refers to him that way again and is clearly blindsided by meeting them. The "She didn't care about Zack" stuff is another translation issue.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:25
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the english script for the original game has johnny claim to be a childhood friend of tifa and cloud and he calls cloud a murderer for no reason in costa del sol lol.
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Jan 17, 2022 18:29
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:the english script for the original game has johnny claim to be a childhood friend of tifa and cloud and he calls cloud a murderer for no reason in costa del sol lol. Johnny is anti troop.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:02
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16-bit Butt-Head posted:the english script for the original game has johnny claim to be a childhood friend of tifa and cloud and he calls cloud a murderer for no reason in costa del sol lol. Yeah Johnny is a drunk with a crush on Tifa who gets depressed and jealous over Cloud's prior relationship to Tifa and has him call Cloud "Tifa's childhood friend" in a sarcastic, almost mocking manner. The English translation somehow missed that mocking and somehow ended up thinking Johnny was a Nibelheim survivor. Seriously the translation for Final Fantasy 7 is awful. Same with Final Fantasy 8, in the Japanese version it's clearer that Squall has resentment towards Cid for dictating his life choices since childhood into becoming SeeD. This isn't present in the English version and a lot of people complain in the west that nobody seems to take any issue with the fact that SeeD are child soldiers and that Cid is immoral.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:02
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How can Cid be morally-suspect when he looks like Patch Adams?
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Jan 17, 2022 19:06
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Mr. Fortitude posted:Yeah Johnny is a drunk with a crush on Tifa who gets depressed and jealous over Cloud's prior relationship to Tifa and has him call Cloud "Tifa's childhood friend" in a sarcastic, almost mocking manner. The English translation somehow missed that mocking and somehow ended up thinking Johnny was a Nibelheim survivor. They probably "somehow missed" it bc the lines were all out of order and they had only a month to work on it bc translating japanese media in the 90s was a loving nightmare
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Jan 17, 2022 19:31
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mandatory lesbian posted:They probably "somehow missed" it bc the lines were all out of order and they had only a month to work on it bc translating japanese media in the 90s was a loving nightmare iirc it was all done by one guy in an extremely short timeframe so yeah that's very very likely to be the case. I imagine it was probably just an unordered list of lines in an Excel spreadsheet and they were told "ok translate these all by Friday"
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Jan 17, 2022 19:41
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the English localization team had to use a game shark to translate final fantasy 8 because Square never gave them the script so they had to buy a Japanese copy and dump it themselves lol
16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 19:47 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 19:45
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it is pretty funny that the series who staked their claim on the importance of story was just like yeah whatever the gaijin will figure it out who cares. especially after the success of ff7
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Jan 17, 2022 19:51
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Super No Vacancy posted:it is pretty funny that the series who staked their claim on the importance of story was just like yeah whatever the gaijin will figure it out who cares. especially after the success of ff7 I mean in that era "look at our graphics" was the big thing they banked on
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Jan 17, 2022 19:53
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mandatory lesbian posted:They probably "somehow missed" it bc the lines were all out of order and they had only a month to work on it bc translating japanese media in the 90s was a loving nightmare Yeah the translators probably had zero context in relation to the game too. I think the translation of Xenogears being such an awful experience is what pushed the localization team to work much closer with the developers? Even then, you still had stuff like the English voice lines in Final Fantasy X had to be the same length as the Japanese ones exactly or the game engine would crash, or some weird localization choices for characterization in Final Fantasy XIII, or managing to misgender Nael van Darnus in Final Fantasy XIV 1.0, to the point they had to retcon an explanation during the Coils of Bahamut raid in A Realm Reborn for why she's a woman.
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Jan 17, 2022 19:54
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i think final fantasy 9 was the first time Square took a translation seriously instead of just dumping it on some hapless employee and telling them to make it work.
16-bit Butt-Head fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 20:00
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Wingnut Ninja posted:I began today with the goal of restarting a FFXV playthrough; I bought it on the PC a few years back but the performance wasn't great, so I sidelined it. Now that I've beefed up my rig in pretty much every respect and moved the game to an SSD it runs quite well. Play both
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Jan 17, 2022 21:23
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For what it's worth I don't think Aerith had no feelings for Zack, or that she didn't care for him. She says they weren't serious in the English script but she does say she liked him for a while. And it's very clear that her initial attraction to Cloud was based on the fact that he acted like Zack did, if she didn't care about Zack at all she probably wouldn't have had that attraction. It's just like I said, Aerith started dating Zack when she was 16. She's 22 by the events of FF7, and again, Zack has been gone for five years. No letters, no phone calls, nothing, just gone (because he's dead). I don't think very many people would still be deeply in love with a person they met when they were a teenager who they haven't seen in nearly half a decade. It just makes sense that Aerith has moved on from how she felt about Zack. Even if she did fall in love with him at the time, they weren't together long enough for it to be serious, and she's a young adult now instead of the kid she was when they were dating. That's more or less why I'm not a fan of "Zack is Aerith's true love" thing. But maybe this is one of those things where it's a cultural difference? What I mean is that it seems like there's a lot of anime/manga/video games where high school kids meet and it's true love and they'll stay together forever and ever because they're soulmates. Which is weird to me because in the US, generally, most people don't end up marrying people they dated in high school. I know there isn't really a public school system in the world of FF7, so one of the reasons why high school couples don't work out (going to different colleges/career paths) doesn't really exist there, but turning from a kid into an adult still would. So that's why it doesn't make sense to me that Aerith would still be hung up on some guy she only dated for a little while, but I guess "everyone meets their soulmate when they're a teenager" is one of those anime things that you have to accept.
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Jan 17, 2022 21:57
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Twelve by Pies posted:The English version says:
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Jan 17, 2022 22:08
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Twelve by Pies posted:For what it's worth I don't think Aerith had no feelings for Zack, or that she didn't care for him. She says they weren't serious in the English script but she does say she liked him for a while. And it's very clear that her initial attraction to Cloud was based on the fact that he acted like Zack did, if she didn't care about Zack at all she probably wouldn't have had that attraction. That isn't a cultural thing. There is plenty of non-anime stuff that does the same. If a story focuses around young adults they usually meet their soulmate during it. Harry Potter or Aang or whoever inevitably ends up with a member of their peer group because it is unsatisfying to end with "and he married Snookums who he met while drunk at a bar in his mid 20s" realistic or no. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 22:27
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https://twitter.com/Zuko_Reborn/status/1482919072652488704?t=FH8ibYL34dyDiEcQYJrzww&s=19
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Jan 17, 2022 23:11
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It does seem like the Cloud/Tifa "Childhood friends become lovers" thing is pretty common in anime or manga at least? Of course there's Ron and Hermione in HP but it feels like the way your standard anime or manga goes about childhood friend romance is very distinct. Now, FFVII was the first time I ever saw it. I think that's part of why I have gravitated more to Aerith over the years. Originally I was all for Team Tifa but these days I prefer Aerith because she's just more interesting and her relationship with Cloud is more unique. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 02:51
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