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I'm pretty sure Finland has some strong feelings about Russia. Also strong spirits. And matches. I'm more sceptical about what the hell Russia would gain by trying to annex (part of) Sweden. Most of Europe and North America would immediately cut all relations and fund Swedish terror groups, which in turn would make any Swedish exports completely valueless, since they would not have much of a market. The inherent value of Sweden is very much lower than the value of trading with Europe in my opinion. Plus you'd have a bunch of Swedes to manage, which is never a good choice. This is quite different from (Eastern) Ukraine, where there's a bigger chance that it will be smoothed over as Russia just annexing the already Russian-aligned Ukrainians, since they more or less speak the same language and used to be one country anyway. And also Ukraine is poor.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:47
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Gotland is the only thing Putin would want from Sweden and I suppose it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he’d do a Crimea 2.0 over it but I really doubt that NATO would let that slide.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:50
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Hedenius posted:Do you think it’s likely that Russia will launch an invasion of Gotland from Kaliningrad? If I was a Russian military leader I wouldn’t be very comfortable with launching an invasion from an enclave completely surrounded by NATO countries. BonHair posted:I'm more sceptical about what the hell Russia would gain by trying to annex (part of) Sweden. Most of Europe and North America would immediately cut all relations and fund Swedish terror groups, which in turn would make any Swedish exports completely valueless, since they would not have much of a market. The inherent value of Sweden is very much lower than the value of trading with Europe in my opinion. Plus you'd have a bunch of Swedes to manage, which is never a good choice.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:55
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Last time, Sweden gambled on the international community to settle and island dispute. It didn't end very well. We're going to end up with Denmark getting Gotland, so NATO forces can be posted there permanently.
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Jan 17, 2022 21:00
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Just sell Gotland to Putin imo. Use the money to buy me a new video card.
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Jan 17, 2022 21:10
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The noble nation of Gotland deserve the independence they have sought ever since been wrongfully annexed by the king of Sweden. If only a major power in the Baltic sphere were to support their endeavour for freedom...
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Jan 17, 2022 21:11
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Hedenius posted:Setting aside the fact that Sweden is about as “non aligned” as Florida in practical terms Sweden is non aligned in terms of defence yes, all we have is old nudge nudge wink wink agreements about who to aim our guns at in case the Soviet union and NATO started WW3. Or do you seriously trust the likes of Trump to come to the defence of Sweden in the event of armed conflict? Currently our best deterrent is being in the EU and the EU being a big bag of money that might be closed to any agressor that directly attack a member state. Hedenius posted:that straight line goes from St Petersburg to Stockholm. Do you think an amphibious assault on Stockholm launched from St Petersburg is worth worrying about? That and the big military base called Kaliningrad directly face southern Sweden where the bulk of the swedish population resides yes. We would very likely get ample warning about troop buildup for an amphibious assault but honestly they would not need that many troops to secure the island after they have destroyed most military units with missiles from Kaliningrad. Hedenius posted:Do you think it’s likely that Russia will launch an invasion of Gotland from Kaliningrad? If I was a Russian military leader I wouldn’t be very comfortable with launching an invasion from an enclave completely surrounded by NATO countries. Sweden is not in NATO, to assume they will risk WW3 and intervene Sweden's behalf (and siege Kaliningrad???) is delusional. BonHair posted:I'm pretty sure Finland has some strong feelings about Russia. Also strong spirits. And matches. Russia does not want Sweden, occupying Sweden is really of no financial gain at all and is neither politically or practically feasible for Russia. At most Russia wants Gotland as that chalky lump is of great strategic importance, especially in a wider conflict, and that occupation would also prevent swedish NATO membership. That the specific conditions which could trigger such a move from Russia does not exist right now does not preclude that they won't exist in the next decade. So it's worth planning for because ramping up defence takes time and the future is unknown.
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Jan 17, 2022 21:30
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Zudgemud posted:Sweden is non aligned in terms of defence yes, all we have is old nudge nudge wink wink agreements about who to aim our guns at in case the Soviet union and NATO started WW3. Or do you seriously trust the likes of Trump to come to the defence of Sweden in the event of armed conflict?
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Jan 17, 2022 21:39
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There should be an EU-defence force or something that all member-states chip in to. We can't defend Gotland with what we have, even with mandatory conscription I doubt we could stop an invasion from Russia, as individual nations we are weak but together we are strong. There might be a thousand reasons not to, I don't know, I don't want Sweden to join Nato but I do want Sweden to have allies.
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Jan 17, 2022 22:31
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Sweden would probably just try to sit things out like with WW2; give limited concessions to whoever is winning at the time.
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Jan 18, 2022 01:29
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President Putin., My name is Elsa Månsson. I am 7 years old. I live in Ljungby, electricity price sector SE4. My government are forcing my family to choose between food and heat, even though it is freezing and we are starving. Please send SU-57 Multirole Stealth Fighter Aircraft.
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Jan 18, 2022 07:11
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So when are they moving the single loving active chalk quarry in Sweden of Gotland? Seems to be bad to have such a critical thing in such an exposed location…
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Jan 18, 2022 07:24
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BonHair posted:I'm more sceptical about what the hell Russia would gain by trying to annex (part of) Sweden. Most of Europe and North America would immediately cut all relations and fund Swedish terror groups But enough about eurovision
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Jan 18, 2022 07:26
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zokie posted:So when are they moving the single loving active chalk quarry in Sweden of Gotland? Seems to be bad to have such a critical thing in such an exposed location… It's just a front to lure the Ruskies. The real kalksten is sourced from the gall bladders of reindeer in Norrlands inland.
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Jan 18, 2022 08:24
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If WW3 kicks off tomorrow, yeah Russia's probably gonna make a grab for Gotland. Their Baltic fleet got reinforced just the other day with more landing craft.
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Jan 18, 2022 09:48
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They already moved some ships out of theater. The carousel keeps going...
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Jan 18, 2022 10:10
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Russia could grab Gotland whenever they want and the entire world would basically just go "wow! that's bad!" and then look the other way
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Jan 18, 2022 11:03
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sOcIaL dEmOcRaTs https://fagbladet3f.dk/artikel/nu-b...sCS3R9XK979iEkw
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Jan 18, 2022 11:46
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So this came up on my radar today https://kvartal.se/artiklar/jamstalldhetsmyndigheten-kvinnors-vald-mot-man-ar-en-del-av-mans-vald-mot-kvinnor/ Disclaimer: At a cursory glance, Kvartal seems to be a more subdued swedish version of Breitbart media, with a crystal clear conservative bent. Having said that, aside from the editorial bias, the base facts in the article seem to be accurate. "Handboken ”Inget att vänta på” publicerades av Jämställdhetsmyndigheten 2020 och innehåller ”konkret vägledning för hur ett systematiskt kunskapsbaserat våldsförebyggande arbete kan genomföras i fem steg.” I det andra steget, som går ut på att beskriva vad våld är, står det att könsrelaterat våld riktas mot kvinnor eller flickor på grund av deras kön. Myndigheten skriver sedan att ”mäns våld mot kvinnor” är ett paraplybegrepp, som utöver våld i nära relationer och hedersrelaterat våld även inkluderar bland annat sexuella trakasserier och ”kommersialisering och exploatering av kvinnokroppen i reklam, medier och pornografi.” Sedan kommer följande formulering: ”Genom att inkludera begreppet våld i nära relationer i det överordnade begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor innefattas även våld i samkönade relationer, eller för den delen kvinnors våld mot män i nära relationer.” Både våld i lesbiska relationer och kvinnor som slår män ska alltså inkluderas i begreppet ”mäns våld mot kvinnor”, enligt myndigheten." The handbook in question is available for free here https://www.jamstalldhetsmyndigheten.se/files/2020/01/JAMY_Handbok-IAVP_TG-1.pdf You can find the relevant quote on page 53: "Inom jämställdhetspolitiken används begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor. Detta begrepp avser inte enbart den enskilda mannens våld mot den enskilda kvinnan i en parrelation, utan är tänkt att fungera som ett ”paraplybegrepp” som utöver våld i nära relationer och hedersrelaterat våld och förtryck inkluderar våld utanför nära relation, såsom sexuella trakasserier, prostitution och människohandel för sexuella ändamål, liksom kommersialisering och exploatering av kvinnokroppen i reklam, medier och pornografi. Genom att inkludera begreppet våld i nära relationer i det överordnade begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor innefattas även våld i samkönade relationer, eller för den delen kvinnors våld mot män i nära relationer" This to me is utterly bizarre. Classifying womens violence against women and men as "mens violence towards women" is downright Kafkaesque. How are we supposed to offer support to men who are victims of abuse if, by definiton, they are the abuser? From that first article: "När Kvartal hör av sig till den på Jämställdhetsmyndigheten som är ansvarig för handboken, Berit Jernberg, avdelningschef för nationell strategi för att förebygga och bekämpa mäns våld mot kvinnor, så ber hon att få läsa det relevanta avsnittet i handboken före intervjun. – Jag blev ju så glad, för det är oerhört välformulerat och bra. Så det var kul att se igen, säger Berit Jernberg efter att ha läst sidorna i handboken på nytt. Hon säger att kvinnors våld mot män är ett verkligt fenomen. – Alla vi som jobbar professionellt med de här frågorna är ju fullt medvetna om att det förekommit våld från kvinnor mot män, det finns ingen konflikt där överhuvudtaget. Men, för mig, och oss andra, så är det väldigt sant det här begreppet ”mäns våld mot kvinnor”, för det är det som är det strukturella problemet. Jernberg menar också att det finns våldsutsatta män som har svårt att bli tagna på allvar. – Jag kan också tro de män som påstår att de inte alltid blir väl bemötta, för att man förväntar sig inte den situationen på samma sätt som med kvinnor, eftersom det är så väldigt mycket vanligare. De resonemangen kan jag helt förstå, säger Jernberg. Bidrar ni inte till en sådan kultur när ni gör den här indelningen? – Det är inte vi som gör den indelningen, utan det är ju beslutat, säger Berit Jernberg, som menar att det är regeringen som beslutat att kvinnors våld mot män ska klassas som en del av mäns våld mot kvinnor, och att detta framgår av de jämställdhetspolitiska delmålen. This is incredibly infuriating on so many levels and I'm having a hard time understanding why they chose to use a definition that is not only misleading but also denigrating to male victims of spousal abuse who already have a difficult time getting support and being taken seriously To be crystal clear here, I am in no way undermining or diminishing the serious issue of mens violence towards women in relationships, both physical and verbal, but rather my point of contention is that violence towards men in relationships isn't treated with the seriousness it should be.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:57
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https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/mutual_defence.html Someone explain to me why this doesn't mean EU countries have to defend each other. Is it in the words 'aid and assist'? Does thoughts and prayers qualify?
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Jan 18, 2022 14:28
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Woodenlung posted:sOcIaL dEmOcRaTs Between poo poo like this and attempting to blackmail Rwanda to host "asylum centers" in exchanged for vaccines, Denmarks "leftish" coalition is a goddamn travesty.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:52
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thotsky posted:Sweden would probably just try to sit things out like with WW2; give limited concessions to whoever is winning at the time. I don't know if that works if Sweden itself is attacked. Norway was neutral during ww2 and still got attacked so it does not mean anything if you're neutral. I know it was a strategic move to attack Norway but it would be a strategic move to take Gotland as well. Cakebaker posted:https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/mutual_defence.html I didn't know about this, this is actually good to see. I still think EU should have a defensive army, it would make it cheaper to maintain an army as well if everyone pitched in. If that happened nations could leave NATO without feeling vulnerable as well and perhaps making relations with Russia more peaceful. But I'm far from an expert so I might be a bad idea, I don't know
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Jan 18, 2022 14:55
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Cakebaker posted:https://eur-lex.europa.eu/summary/glossary/mutual_defence.html The problem there is that nobody knows if thoughts and prayers qualify because it has never been put to the test, and multiple member states would be perfectly fine with thoughts and prayers if a prolonged conflict would threaten to rock the boat too much. There has been a lot of waffling around the topic, especially since the major EU countries were all NATO members anyway. But it is only quite recently that there has been some more concrete plans put in motion for this, basically since Trump threatened to abandon NATO. I think the current size of the common EU defence force is tiny though, and defence is primarily supposed to be shouldered by the defending nation.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:11
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McCloud posted:Bidrar ni inte till en sådan kultur när ni gör den här indelningen?
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Jan 18, 2022 15:18
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Media is going bananas as usual any time there's "ryssen kommer!" vibes. The increased readiness on Gotland for example is mostly a matter of showing the flag and exercising, and only to some minor extent because you never know in what unexpected directions a conflict might escalate. Everything points to the Russians being pretty serious about their intent to invade Ukraine in the immediate future, and Sweden is quite unlikely to get dragged into that, but again, military conflicts sometimes have a nasty tendency to spiral out of control. If you were to believe media though, Putin himself might airdrop into Visby tomorrow. On the other hand you have people like defense analyst Johan Wiktorin (hardly known for being a dove) writing on twitter that the risk of armed intervention in Sweden is only "very marginally" increased. Seriously, the nonsense in media is becoming an actual problem. Look at all the mass delusions about drones over nuclear power plants for example, which for some absolutely idiotic reason are being taken seriously by people who should know better. I can sit here right in my armchair and tell you there almost certainly haven't been any drones whatsoever. Seriously - let's look at the facts as reported by SVT. The first one was reported at Forsmark as having been seen at 20:20 (in complete darkness, of course, so one wonders what they actually saw). It was then claimed to have been observed by police too at 20:51, and contact was lost at 22:10; it reportedly flew off towards Gräsö (which is an island on the other side of a bay; we're talking at least 11 km over open sea). During this whole time period the wind at ground level was about 16-17 m/s. A drone that could stay aloft for at least an hour while also being able to maneuver in winds over 60 km/h isn't what the general public probably thinks of as "a drone" and certainly not the usual multirotor kind, it's either a loving helicopter or a full on military grade remotely-piloted plane. To illustrate this point, the Swedish army's hand-launched UAV 05B Korpen (a glorified RC plane with a 3 meter wingspan, known in the US as the RQ-20 Puma) wouldn't be able to pull this sort of thing off - it's almost got the endurance and range, but it can't handle winds that strong. The next size up in UAV's are no longer electric, they're gas-powered and require pneumatic start ramps and an actual field to land on and poo poo like that. I'd say it's exceedingly unlikely that a state-level actor moved a military grade UAV and its supporting equipment to Gräsö just to mess with some security guards. The whole thing reminds me of all the panic about drones around British airports which went on for weeks without any actual evidence of actual drones ever being presented. It's a classic mass delusion thing. TheFluff fucked around with this message at 15:37 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 15:22
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:third jab brung me low with the fever for a day, after the first two were nothing but a sore arm TheFluff posted:Media is going bananas as usual any time there's "ryssen kommer!" vibes. The increased readiness on Gotland for example is mostly a matter of showing the flag and exercising evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 15:55 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 15:38
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Mr. Sunshine posted:This can't be real. Is this real? It's like some ultra-chud's parody of wokeness. It's from a website run by a anti-immigrant right wing media chud who also started the notoriously bad newspaper Bulletin. I'd take it with a pinch of salt before clutching my pearls. Notice that half that paragraph is not a direct quote, but the writer's interpretation of what the person is claiming, which is a common method for making a quote sound even worse than what was said in the initial context without publish a false quote. lilljonas fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 15:44
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evil_bunnY posted:Pretty sure that was a direct reaction to putin puttin' landing ships in the baltic? You're right, I got the timeline confused for some reason and thought the reinforcement on Gotland was done even before the landing ships entered the Baltic.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:47
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evil_bunnY posted:which ones did you get? Moderna all three times I think I heard in passing that mix-and-matching might have better results when it comes to the booster, but I only got the option of booking another Moderna jab.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:48
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Kamrat posted:There should be an EU-defence force or something that all member-states chip in to. We can't defend Gotland with what we have, even with mandatory conscription I doubt we could stop an invasion from Russia, as individual nations we are weak but together we are strong. TheFluff posted:A drone that could stay aloft for at least an hour while also being able to maneuver in winds over 60 km/h isn't what the general public probably thinks of as "a drone" and certainly not the usual multirotor kind, it's either a loving helicopter or a full on military grade remotely-piloted plane. To illustrate this point, the Swedish army's hand-launched UAV 05B Korpen (a glorified RC plane with a 3 meter wingspan, known in the US as the RQ-20 Puma) wouldn't be able to pull this sort of thing off - it's almost got the endurance and range, but it can't handle winds that strong. The next size up in UAV's are no longer electric, they're gas-powered and require pneumatic start ramps and an actual field to land on and poo poo like that. I'd say it's exceedingly unlikely that a state-level actor moved a military grade UAV and its supporting equipment to Gräsö just to mess with some security guards. Zulily Zoetrope posted:Moderna all three times evil_bunnY fucked around with this message at 15:56 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 15:54
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In a surprise twist, opinions differ on Kvartal's journalistic integrity https://twitter.com/ars_gravitatis/status/1483443237159378959 edit: personally, I don't feel qualified to have an opinion either way because I cba to read up on the thing Beeswax fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 16:13
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evil_bunnY posted:While I fully agree that 99% of drone sightings are mistaken, you can literally buy a 90km/h drone with >hour endurance off the loving shelf. If you built something yourself you can *easily* build a quad/hex with that kind of performance. People really, really underestimate what a semi-interested amateur can build in a day with off the shelf parts. X-class (1m shaft to shaft) type crafts can *haul rear end* I'm not a drone nerd so maybe I'm missing some super obvious options but when I looked I didn't really find anything like that. DJI has a thing that gets close but that's assuming you can get all of the edges of the performance envelope all at once (like it has a listed endurance of 55 minutes and a top speed of either 17 or 23 m/s depending on mode, but given the usual way datasheets are written I'd assume there's no way you can get the max endurance while also going close to your top speed all the time). All of the really long endurance/long range options are fixed wing, which usually comes with more restrictions on wind speed. I freely admit I have no idea what might be possible with homebrew though.
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Jan 18, 2022 16:27
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evil_bunnY posted:For everyone's anecdata: I got 2xpfizer and it was painless both times, felt tired the day after. Just got my moderna booster and the prick didn't hurt but goddamn there must have been a nerve close by because the fluid injection ooooh boy. 3:rd Pfeizer today. Sore upper arm, but nothing else so far. Got jabbed by a really crusty nurse though; no swabs, no gloves and the band-aid went wherever since she could not remember where the stuck the needle. Just like God intended.
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Jan 18, 2022 16:52
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Moderna all three times Just accept that they're always at least six months behind the science. 33,493 cases today, another all-time record. 17.3% positivity rate, another all-time record. ~5.2% of the population currently confirmed infected, probably closer to double that in reality. And they just loving relaxed the restrictions.
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Jan 18, 2022 16:55
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SplitSoul posted:Just accept that they're always at least six months behind the science. Gotta have that herd immunity everybody is raging about. evil_bunnY posted:Germany is and will be putin's bitch for the foreseeable future (it's what happens when you nix your homeland power generation capacity with no plans for replacement). Yeah I'm aware that Germany has a hosed up situation regarding their energy, but I don't think that would hinder them in any way if it's just a defensive army.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:05
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Beeswax posted:In a surprise twist, opinions differ on Kvartal's journalistic integrity lilljonas posted:It's from a website run by a anti-immigrant right wing media chud who also started the notoriously bad newspaper Bulletin. I'd take it with a pinch of salt before clutching my pearls. Notice that half that paragraph is not a direct quote, but the writer's interpretation of what the person is claiming, which is a common method for making a quote sound even worse than what was said in the initial context without publish a false quote. Beeswax posted:In a surprise twist, opinions differ on Kvartal's journalistic integrity To be absolutely clear, Kvartal seems to be Swedish Breitbart, so they absolutely have an agenda, but the basic facts they're reporting on seem to be accurate. That twitter thread included this picture https://twitter.com/ars_gravitatis/status/1483443255442395141?s=20 citing this text Inom jämställdhetspolitiken används begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor. Detta begrepp avser inte enbart den enskilda mannens våld mot den enskilda kvinnan i en parrelation, utan är tänkt att fungera som ett ”paraplybegrepp” som utöver våld i nära relationer och hedersrelaterat våld och förtryck inkluderar våld utanför nära relation, såsom sexuella trakasserier, prostitution och människohandel för sexuella ändamål, liksom kommersialisering och exploatering av kvinnokroppen i reklam, medier och pornografi. Genom att inkludera begreppet våld i nära relationer i det överordnade begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor innefattas även våld i samkönade relationer, eller för den delen kvinnors våld mot män i nära relationer. Begreppet våld i nära relation är könsneutralt och inkluderande genom att det inbegriper allt våld i heterosexuella parrelationer, våld i HBTQ-personers partnerrelationer och våld mot barn. Dilemmat med begrepp som våld i nära relation är dock att det exkluderar många andra former av könsrelaterat våld, såsom överfallsvåld, fysiskt och sexuellt våld utanför nära relation. Det könsneutrala osynliggör också ofta den vanligaste formen av våld i nära relationer, särskilt när det handlar om upprepat och allvarligt våld, det vill säga det som män utövar mot kvinnor i heterosexuella parrelationer Som konstaterats avser begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor inte enbart den enskilda mannens våld mot den enskilda kvinnan. Begreppet avser snarare att benämna olika former av patriarkalt motiverat våld i bredare bemärkelse. Även om hedersrelaterat våld och förtryck är kollektivt utövat av flera – främst men inte uteslutande – närstående personer inkluderas alltså detta begrepp i det överordnade begreppet mäns våld mot kvinnor Mäns våld mot kvinnor är också en del av det våld som män utövar i en rad olika sammanhang, inklusive det män riktar mot andra män i offentliga miljöer. Män blir oftare utsatta för våld än kvinnor, men i båda fallen är det främst män som utövar våldet. This is their own text from the pdf i linked earlier, and my interpretation of that text is that "mäns våld mot kvinnor" is an umbrella term that includes violence where men are the victims. It further goes on to state that the "dilemma" with the term "våld i nära relation" is that it fails to highlight the violence against women in heterosexual couple relationships. Kvartal is a poo poo rag by all indications, but it does seem that it's a case of a broken clock being right once a day. Going back to that original quote, if the purpose of the handbook is to criticize the term "mäns våld mot kvinnor" for including womens violence against men, then doesn't that quote from that interview contradict that? Did I entirely misread that text from their handbook?
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Jan 18, 2022 17:12
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ted hitler hunter posted:Ljungby Pungby
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Jan 18, 2022 17:18
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Kamrat posted:Gotta have that herd immunity everybody is raging about. Lone Simonsen, is that you?
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Jan 18, 2022 17:26
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Do you want to remove domestic abuse from the umbrella of “mäns våld mot kvinnor”? Some women make more money than their male peers, so there is no gender wage gap!
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Jan 18, 2022 17:47
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zokie posted:Do you want to remove domestic abuse from the umbrella of “mäns våld mot kvinnor”? Some women make more money than their male peers, so there is no gender wage gap! That's a ludicrously disingenuous comparison and you know it.
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Jan 18, 2022 18:17
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