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Spazzle posted:So? Who cares about kink poo poo? Harassing employees is the gross thing here. that person he entered into the kink relationship with was not an employee but a consenting adult who picked him up at a club, the article states. important to keep our accusations clear and on target. not defending Whedon, part of being a good advocate is being accurate.
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Jan 18, 2022 03:03
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Arivia posted:that person he entered into the kink relationship with was not an employee but a consenting adult who picked him up at a club, the article states. important to keep our accusations clear and on target. not defending Whedon, part of being a good advocate is being accurate.
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Jan 18, 2022 03:10
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christmas boots posted:I read it as more "I hadn't even been taught to swim, why were we allowed to be at the pool without any adults around?" Oh 100%, in a vacuum it's more retrospection than I'd expect. It's just that it reads like the centrepiece in his "actually my upbringing totally hosed me up and that's why I'm not responsible for my actions that also I didn't do" act, since "mom too strong", "parents got divorced" and "boarding school at 15" aren't really doing much heavy lifting
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Jan 18, 2022 03:22
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Spazzle posted:Agreed. Other people were saying it was with the reporter, but that is also not true. Sorry that I inverted two specific stories of him doing extremely cruel things to 20-year-olds he dated when he was 40.
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Jan 18, 2022 04:16
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sweet geek swag posted:My context would be that I would not let my child work in a situation where they were working subordinate to a known sexual harrasser, so I assumed it had to be something else. If I had that situation and learned that he was screaming abuse at everyone on set I very well might say he couldn't be alone with my daughter. Michelle Trachtenberg's parents aren't that scrupulous it seems. this is a lovely loving thing to say!
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Jan 18, 2022 04:49
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Perhaps the better idea is to not keep employing a man who can't be alone in a room with a teenager rather than blaming the parents but what do I know, I'm just spitballing here. I wasn't a Buffy watched and I know he had a big shitstorm when one of his actresses got pregnant. It was a sci-fi horror show, right? Writing around a pregnancy is easy mode. When Nana Visitor got pregnant during shooting DS9 around that same time frame they wrote in a transporter malfunction putting in Keiko's fetus into Keira and got some mileage out of that. Whedon has no imagination and absolutely can not handle it when things don't go his way.
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Jan 18, 2022 06:08
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They had already done a magical pregnancy on that show, funnily enough, which was how Angel got Pete from Mad Men as his son. I think that second time when the actor was pregnant, the character died and gave birth to that season’s antagonist.
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Jan 18, 2022 06:13
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I AM GRANDO posted:They had already done a magical pregnancy on that show, funnily enough, which was how Angel got Pete from Mad Men as his son. I think that second time when the actor was pregnant, the character died and gave birth to that season’s antagonist. was he as bald as he was on mad men because then I might have to watch it bald-rear end baby
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Jan 18, 2022 06:26
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Whedon comes across as a monumentally narcissistic rear end in a top hat in that article. Says he's sorry but not for anything specific. All specific instances are either lies, misunderstandings or plain didn't happen. Best part was where he read his then-girlfriend's book, learned that her most devastating experience was when a ex dumped her on her birthday, so good ol Joss did exactly the same thing
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Jan 18, 2022 09:52
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Pookah posted:Whedon comes across as a monumentally narcissistic rear end in a top hat in that article. Says he's sorry but not for anything specific. All specific instances are either lies, misunderstandings or plain didn't happen. I still maintain that for abusers, abuse is thoroughly enjoyable, a hobby and craft they practice at every opportunity. It's their escapism and stress relief. And a competitive sport. They can't stand to be outdone. Also lol that the interviewer is genuinely trying to rehabilitate Joss Whedon, even throwing in a tell-tale 'Zack Snyder, who as we well know is obviously a horrible fascist while Whedon is human and warm'. Ghost Leviathan has a new favorite as of 10:26 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 10:23
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still maintain that for abusers, abuse is thoroughly enjoyable, a hobby and craft they practice at every opportunity. It's their escapism and stress relief. And a competitive sport. They can't stand to be outdone. 100% agree. He knows what he's doing and he enjoys the sense of power he gets from hurting people, especially people who trust him and have allowed themselves to be vulnerable around him. I know someone like this and yeah, they think its a like a dark superpower to be able to choose the exact words to cause the most pain.
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Jan 18, 2022 10:30
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Something especially awful and lol about attempts to paint Snyder as a randian fascist to prop up Whedon, since pretty much everyone who's worked on a Snyder movie has nothing bad to say about him and would probably take a bullet for the guy.
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Jan 18, 2022 10:44
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at least Dan Harmon’s discussion of his misconduct (from the previous page) comes off as someone who talked briefly in the same room with introspection. hell, if you’re willing to be generous—fair enough if you’re not, but for the sake of argument—he might even possibly have had shame for his actions on the phone in a conference call. in comparison, loving lmao that Whedon SatansOnion has a new favorite as of 11:58 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 10:48
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There is no way the interviewer who went and talked to a bunch of Whedon's exes to ask them about their experiences, and numerous people with stories of terrible workplace behaviour, is trying to defend him. Don't get so hung up on a single aside comparing Snyder's aesthetic to Leni Riefenstahl that you disregard the clear amount of work she put in to pulling down the artifice Whedon built up around himself. "Wow it's so crazy this writer thought these quotes and stories would make Whedon look good, she must be dumb!" No you're just an idiot. She doesn't have to stop every three sentences to say "and that's why Joss is a very naughty man," she expects you to put that together yourself. Metis of the Chat Thread has a new favorite as of 10:58 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 10:56
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quote:While Whedon’s superhero epics were leavened by irony and wordplay, Snyder’s were brooding and self-important, with a visual style that combined the artificiality of a video game with the fascist aesthetic of a Leni Riefenstahl production. This line? This is what you're saying is the writer calling Snyder a Nazi? That is an accurate description of Snyder's aesthetic. Is the sculpted, athletic male body not a major focus of most of his films? Is that not also a prominent feature of the fascist aesthetic? quote:Whedon, now installed in the director’s chair, oversaw nearly 40 days of reshoots, a complicated and laborious undertaking. From the start, things were tense between him and the stars. It wasn’t just that he wanted to impose a whole new vision on their work; he introduced an entirely different style of management. Snyder had given the actors exceptional license with the script, encouraging them to ad-lib dialogue. Whedon expected them to say their lines exactly as he’d written them. quote:Snyder had centered the film on his character — the first Black superhero in a DC movie — and he’d treated Fisher as a writing partner, soliciting his opinions on the film’s representations of Black people. Whedon downsized Cyborg’s role, cutting scenes that, in Fisher’s view, challenged stereotypes. When Fisher raised his concerns about the revisions in a phone call, Whedon cut him off. “It feels like I’m taking notes right now,” Whedon told him, according to The Hollywood Reporter, “and I don’t like taking notes from anybody — not even Robert Downey Jr.” And look, flattering comparisons that highlight Snyder's collaborative methods! quote:A remarkable reversal had taken place. Fifteen years earlier, Snyder’s work was widely seen as the epitome of problematic cinema. His breakout effort, 300, a sword-and-sandal epic about the Persian Wars, was “so overtly racist” in the view of the U.N. delegation from Iran that it threatened to incite “a clash of civilizations.” Now, the internet had recast Snyder as a progressive hero while branding Whedon, its progressive hero of yesterday, as a villain and bigot. This is also an accurate description. Snyder was once predominantly considered a reactionary and racist filmmaker, but people who paid closer attention to his films came away with a much more progressive read of them. Say, seeing 300 and considering that it's not actually taking the side of the Spartans, but merely depicting their story in a way that leaves the viewer to go "hey, that's hosed up!" Perhaps you could take that lesson and apply it more broadly, no? I mean, I don't want to tell you in exact words the message I'm trying to convey here, but it seems like some of you might struggle with reading comprehension. Don't go dismissing her work in investigating and compiling Whedon's long history of abuse just because she isn't sufficiently adulatory of your favourite director.
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Jan 18, 2022 11:29
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When you say "the internet has branded someone as [x]" these days it is very easy, especially on a casual read, for that to sound dismissive of the thing
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Jan 18, 2022 11:43
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Dr Christmas posted:"Communism is all over the place" is such a silly phrase even if it wasn't trying to sound all portentous. I hate it when my roommates don’t clean up their communism
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Jan 18, 2022 11:44
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This is how we get antifa
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Jan 18, 2022 11:45
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Ghost Leviathan posted:Something especially awful and lol about attempts to paint Snyder as a randian fascist Let's all reserve judgement till his Ayn Rand passion project is complete.
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Jan 18, 2022 12:03
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"I'll compare myself to Richard III that will surely win over the people who think I'm a creep"
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Jan 18, 2022 12:04
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FreudianSlippers posted:"I'll compare myself to Richard III that will surely win over the people who think I'm a creep" Richard III was a hit piece written to please a monarch who was on the throne because her grandfather had overthrown him. It has some basis in truth, but all Richard's negative characteristics were exaggerated. For instance, Richard had mild scoliosis but is depicted as a hunchback in the play. Whedon knows his Shakespeare; I can definitely see him making the comparison thinking it will be taken as "I'm not perfect, but I'm not as bad as everyone says".
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Jan 18, 2022 12:24
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Metis of the Hallways posted:
I wonder if this isn’t giving Snyder too much credit as a filmmaker. I don’t think he’s a fascist, and as I didn’t previously know anything about him as a boss or collaborator, I’m glad to hear that he’s a good person to work for and with. I think he’s a filmmaker with a limited aesthetic who is mostly interested in what he sees as badass visuals. 300 has plenty of those: mission accomplished! It’s also a movie that’s based on an overtly fascist comic book. I don’t see any sign that Snyder questions Miller’s vision of the Spartans or ironizes it. I don’t think he’s interested in the politics at all- he likes the chiseled bodies, slo-mo leaping, etc. I can’t see how the film encourages a viewer to question the Spartan account, or Miller’s: it’s no Starship Troopers and you’d have to really read against the text to find those questions.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:27
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For whatever reason a lot of people on the internet have chosen Zack Snyder as the vessel for their own political views, probably because he makes superhero movies instead of stuff they'd have to go read about first. But the material isn't really strong enough to hold much weight. It's probably gonna be uncomfortable when people start defending The Fountainhead as some awesome deconstruction that is owning Ayn Rand, actually.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:36
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Ghost Leviathan posted:I still maintain that for abusers, abuse is thoroughly enjoyable, a hobby and craft they practice at every opportunity. It's their escapism and stress relief. And a competitive sport. They can't stand to be outdone. This isn’t an attempt to rehabilitate Whedon. If it were, it would take Rebecca X, the former Rebecca Rand Kirshner, at her word when she says she doesn’t consider Whedon’s behavior abuse. Instead, the journalist quotes her directly when she describes all the hosed-up abuse Whedon subjected Rebecca X to, leaving it as an exercise left to you, the reader, to infer that Whedon is a piece of poo poo.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:57
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Zombie Dachshund posted:I wonder if this isn’t giving Snyder too much credit as a filmmaker. I don’t think he’s a fascist, and as I didn’t previously know anything about him as a boss or collaborator, I’m glad to hear that he’s a good person to work for and with. I think he’s a filmmaker with a limited aesthetic who is mostly interested in what he sees as badass visuals. 300 has plenty of those: mission accomplished! It’s also a movie that’s based on an overtly fascist comic book. I don’t see any sign that Snyder questions Miller’s vision of the Spartans or ironizes it. I don’t think he’s interested in the politics at all- he likes the chiseled bodies, slo-mo leaping, etc. I can’t see how the film encourages a viewer to question the Spartan account, or Miller’s: it’s no Starship Troopers and you’d have to really read against the text to find those questions. I mean I think that’s probably more true than anything else fascist imagery is they way because it’s badass. The fascist don’t put much more thought in it than that. So people coming at that conclusion independently isn’t shocking Though Snyder has become more a symbol for Nerds in similar ways to Whedon in the 90s. So the actual person is kind of discarded for a more idealized thing to represent them
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Jan 18, 2022 14:05
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LITERALLY A BIRD posted:You should definitely actually read that linked article before trying to clear him of being a sexual abuser. Unless you are a victim yourself in which case definitely don't. For loving real
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Jan 18, 2022 14:35
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CharlestheHammer posted:I mean I think that’s probably more true than anything else fascist imagery is they way because it’s badass. The fascist don’t put much more thought in it than that. So people coming at that conclusion independently isn’t shocking Yeah they don't do that poo poo cause they think "oh boy, this looks fash and is cool" they think "oh that looks cool" and don't think about anything at all really
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Jan 18, 2022 14:45
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In an Entertainment Weekly interview about 300 Snyder talked about leaning into his audience's homophobia with his depiction of the Persian emperor. He does things for reasons, rather than being a clueless guy who doesn't understand anything.
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Jan 18, 2022 14:57
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Rascar Capac posted:In an Entertainment Weekly interview about 300 Snyder talked about leaning into his audience's homophobia with his depiction of the Persian emperor. He does things for reasons, rather than being a clueless guy who doesn't understand anything. He also says he doesn’t particularly care how you interpret it as long as you pay which undercuts that a lot
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Jan 18, 2022 15:10
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I AM GRANDO posted:They had already done a magical pregnancy on that show, funnily enough, which was how Angel got Pete from Mad Men as his son. I think that second time when the actor was pregnant, the character died and gave birth to that season’s antagonist. It was the third magical pregnancy (possibly even fourth), and the second/third for Cordellia (Charisma Carpenter's character.) The first time was in the second (maybe first?) season, where she has sex with what seems like a normal human man, but of course like half the population of LA in Angel, he was actually a demon and put his spawn into her. She became like 9 months pregnant overnight. The next time might not TECHNICALLY qualify as a magical pregnancy, but she was the magical host for the spawn of other demons. The Angel Crew removed the previous spawn from the other host, a little girl, so the demons "impregnated" Cordy with their spawn, which was basically just a third eyeball growing out the back of her skull. Waste of Breath posted:was he as bald as he was on mad men because then I might have to watch it As the baby? Yes, As a sullen, angsty teen? Sadly, no. Though I'm going to guess the baby was another actor, unless Vincent did some serious method acting and spent ~16 years in a Hell dimension while only months passed on Earth as well.
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Jan 18, 2022 15:39
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Metis of the Hallways posted:This line? This is what you're saying is the writer calling Snyder a Nazi? That is an accurate description of Snyder's aesthetic. Is the sculpted, athletic male body not a major focus of most of his films? Is that not also a prominent feature of the fascist aesthetic? I saw the Snyder cut of justice league. My lesbian rear end could barely handle the super slowmo closeup lingering shots of amazons with hammers smashing things. Dude just likes showing off fit bodies, and I'm here for it. Also this superman is the single greatest superman (visually) because they let him keep his hairy chest.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:18
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Film desperately needs more buff ladies swinging hammers.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:41
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Push El Burrito posted:Film desperately needs more buff ladies swinging hammers. Like... 
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Jan 18, 2022 17:58
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Fashionable Jorts posted:Like... [ancient lamentation music playing]
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Jan 18, 2022 18:12
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bíbasis gonna be the new twerking
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Jan 18, 2022 18:14
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Fashionable Jorts posted:I saw the Snyder cut of justice league. My lesbian rear end could barely handle the super slowmo closeup lingering shots of amazons with hammers smashing things. Dude just likes showing off fit bodies, and I'm here for it. If we concede all the hot buff people to loving Nazis, we have already lost
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Jan 18, 2022 21:30
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Burkion posted:If we concede all the hot buff people to loving Nazis, we have already lost Some people can be bought extremely cheaply.
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Jan 18, 2022 21:39
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pentyne posted:I don't know what the context for "don't let this man be alone in the room with a female teen" means to you but to me that's 100% he is a serial sexual harasser and a danger to the safety of the female actors. the charitable read there is that he was "just" a bully who tended to scream at his actors a lot and that's not a great environment for a child actor, rather than that he was actively a pedophile. But at this point who the gently caress knows.
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Jan 18, 2022 22:15
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MariusLecter posted:Some people can be bought extremely cheaply. like who?
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Jan 18, 2022 22:48
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The writer's motivation for the article I suspect is left a bit ambiguous by design. Presumably when she sought interviews for it from either side she pitched that it would be "balanced" so she couldn't make it plainly apologia or condemnation. There were some moments in the writing that made me suspect she was trying to mount a defence of Whedon, early on she refers to his ex-wife's account as "sensational" which to my mind undermines the seriousness of that letter and implies the claims were fanciful. She also describes him with great empathy early on, describing his pain which leans into the tortured artist stereotype which is so often used to justify heinous acts. However, the sheer amount of stones she uncovered and research she did - exposing Whedon as even more of a creep - and her choice to end the article with his quote about how he's too nice, which is clearly outrageous considering what we've just read says to me that she was very intentionally puncturing the artifice he's built around himself. Judging by the reaction on the internet: Mission Accomplished.
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