|
I don't think you'd be able to automate any of those dynamic world systems without it just turning into whack-a-mole at best with the orc camp being farmed to nothing and then being left alone to turn into a orc army. You'd probably need people to act like dungeon masters or GM's who can go on a server and say "I'm feeling like a undead army today, I'll control this lich boss and take over the village of Townshire and enable the undead_invasion_quest system" But that would require paying a lot of people and be open to abuse.
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 04:21
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 09:20 |
|
|
There's no need to tie spawn rate to spawn location. Use dynamic system to decide where to place dungeons, quest givers, and mobs by all means. However the spawn rate and number of spawners needs to be scaled for your player population. Particularly if you are placing them down with the expectation of drawing in players, the number and frequency of spawners needs to high enough to deal with that. Doesn't WoW scale spawn rate to player population in the zone already? I seem to remember them doing something like that back in Wrath.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 05:05
|
|
|
They do, though that has its own problems (enemies respawning right after you kill them meaning you cannot meaningfully advance into, say, a cave without fighting multiple enemies at once).
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 05:10
|
|
|
jokes posted:Here's my theory: I think players, especially online players, who grind things kind of value it based on a rewards / time) function. So even if the rewards are the same, then they'll optimize for efficiency of time. One of the systems I think would work here is a system that makes things people are not doing more productive over time. Today daily's are hot, tomorrow its PVP, the day after something else. Sliding scale that stuff so that people who only want to do one thing can still do it, but people can also go after different stuff since the value you get goes up over time. Cardboard Fox posted:Is it an issue with technology? We can make skin appear as real as our own, but can't explain to a computer how to create an interesting world? I've made "interesting" AIs in the past for mobs, they work better with EQ type games where fights last 2-3 min vs several people and mostly do not work at all in WOW type games where mobs are dead in 15 sec or less. Making an AI that can mess with the world you have a bit more hope for. The "Director" for Left 4 Dead is a really good example because it manages pace, gives you lulls and ramps up and down difficulty to ensure interesting play. You could create mini directors in a game like WoW that could manage spawn times in the area around you, create extra mobs if your having to easy of a time, throttle back damage if it spawns 8 dudes on top of you at once and do all kinds of other hidden effects. Join a party and your director adjusts to the party (or to the number of people in a semi defined area). WOW kind of does this because it adjusts HP to ensure some types of fights take about so much time based on how many people are in combat with the target and dynamically adjusts the HP pool to keep the fight long enough to see what the mob can do to a degree. An even better system could be a Zone Director. Think Rim World, Elwin forest has a ton of noobs today, lets spawn something level appropriate for the zone, or send a band of Horde on wolves through, or who knows what else could be on the zone table for mini events. This would be a layer on top of the static spawns of wolves and stuff normally found in the zone. Some games handle environmental effects so stuff like changing weather could be done (snow that actully piles up and you can walk through is found in Unreal for example). Finally, the zone stories need not all be combat or "Public Quest" style but could just be amusing. Elwin Forest could have merchants spawn and go to and from Stormwind, they could be flagged as attackable neutral because they are really from the Defias brotherhood. The key thing about a Zone director would be that it adjusts to the current in level players in the area and it cant be just a public quest system, it needs some level of just making theme appropriate things happen above and beyond the static quests going on. Ra Ra Rasputin posted:You'd probably need people to act like dungeon masters or GM's who can go on a server and say "I'm feeling like a undead army today, I'll control this lich boss and take over the village of Townshire and enable the undead_invasion_quest system" There is a game trying to do this. War of Dragnorox is about 2 years away but at least its trying. I cant tell if its calming internal GMs or public GMs (aka something close to never winter).
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 05:42
|
|
|
The main problem most games run into with these systems is that players are like locusts and just swarm over everything faster then you expect them to.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 06:52
|
|
|
Ra Ra Rasputin posted:The main problem most games run into with these systems is that players are like locusts and just swarm over everything faster then you expect them to. Yeah the Hunt Train system in FF14 is an example of this. The purpose of hunts higher than B tier is to group up to take on a foe that's boss-level but who's just chilling in the overworld. So the idea is that you'd get your assigned hunt and then form a group of other hunters. Instead people wait until all the hunts are up, then form a massive train that goes from zone to zone instagibbing the bosses. They're incentivised to do this because unless you're not playing at a useful time, it's easier, faster, and gets more players involved than the "group up manually with like 6 guys" system would be.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 07:12
|
|
|
bewilderment posted:Yeah the Hunt Train system in FF14 is an example of this. Ahh swarming with numbers... some games give bosses more hp per added player. Others split the loot and xp over the number of players so you get very little swarming. EVE online numbers are still king as well. Every dang game needs to address the numbers problem and sometimes solutions are easy, other times they can be a pain and don't get solved. Early in WoWs life there were uber bosses who got stronger for each kill while also doing AE damage. Of course this ended with trolls mostly being the winners. Short term instances has been a solution here moving the fight out of the open world so it could be balanced. End of the day Rust shows the problem best, some groups love to swarm (Chinese invade servers in mass commonly) so games need tricks to split people up better or to make large groups not good for some reason.
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 17:38
|
|
|
PyRosflam posted:Ahh swarming with numbers... some games give bosses more hp per added player. Others split the loot and xp over the number of players so you get very little swarming. EVE online numbers are still king as well. GW2's biggest open world boss/event complaints were A) it's too easy, just zerg it and auto attack until it dies and/or B) ugh, the scaling on this is horrible, the boss gets too much health. The solution for future large scale events was usually:
|
|
#
?
Jan 15, 2022 18:04
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:I’d like to see the lower fidelity but not blurry/PS1 style of EQOA make a return - it’s simple, legible, can be used to make big evocative landscapes that aren’t necessarily obscured by rendering distance, and easy enough for any hardware. My pipe dream is an EQOA mobile port with PC cross play, I’m convinced it could work if it wasn’t loaded down with micro transactions but it will never happen It is happening apparently; maybe not the mobile part but maybe you can use PCSX2 on a phone lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WheiGWVbtNc Some SOCOM 2 stuff in there etc. but EQOA footage too. knox fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Jan 16, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2022 04:36
|
|
|
EQOA coming back officially would be so awesome. I really miss that game. Ported to Playstation 4 and pc would be really awesome. There wasnt even anything wrong with the game either, it was just stuck on the PlayStation 2 and everyone moved on after the ps3 came out. So its numbers dwindled to zero. Otherwise it was a really good mmo.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2022 06:23
|
|
|
My brain remembers EQOA to be insanely hosed up and terrible to play. I’d take a second look at it if it became playable for some insane reason
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
The most important thing to remember about EQOA is that it's time to slay the dragon! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXLWmNuuSOA
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2022 22:46
|
|
|
1stGear posted:Ultima Online had a whole ecology that got annihilated the moment servers launched. The issue is not so much what is technology capable of it, its how players interact with your world. And inevitably, MMO players play like locusts.
|
|
#
?
Jan 16, 2022 23:45
|
|
|
I want to say that the resource system wasn't a "whole ecology" but it also wasn't a traditional wow-style timed spawn pool either. I want to say they had like a "till" of resources that would be exhausted as players mined them out and then be returned through some mechanism. Obviously all it takes is more hours-played than you expected and more player hoarding than expected to completely gently caress that up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2022 01:28
|
|
|
And player hoarding duplicate sets is kind of the expected/desired/correct behavior in a full-loot game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2022 01:29
|
|
|
knox posted:It is happening apparently; maybe not the mobile part but maybe you can use PCSX2 on a phone lol Wow - EQOA has had a revival project in the works for awhile but last I checked it was barely functional, this looks very interesting. It looks like what this guy is talking about is piggy backing from that and requires people to create their own temporary servers but it seems like that’s a short jump to a proper emulated one, which I think could be extremely fun to play with a DS4
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2022 01:41
|
|
|
30.5 Days posted:And player hoarding duplicate sets is kind of the expected/desired/correct behavior in a full-loot game. To be fair, they were learning that players HOARD everything in real time. This was the first of its kind so not as clear cut as it could have been.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2022 02:02
|
|
|
Frog Act posted:Wow - EQOA has had a revival project in the works for awhile but last I checked it was barely functional, this looks very interesting. It looks like what this guy is talking about is piggy backing from that and requires people to create their own temporary servers but it seems like that’s a short jump to a proper emulated one, which I think could be extremely fun to play with a DS4 Friends I met on SOCOM 1 and then played EQOA and various other MMOs with over the years alerted me to the progress, one of them logged into it. Definitely looks cool, I would check it out if it has a legit launch at some point, just on nostalgia alone.
|
|
#
?
Jan 17, 2022 16:01
|
|
|
what does this means for us MMO bros https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2022/01/18/welcoming-activision-blizzard-to-microsoft-gaming/
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:36
|
|
|
quote:As a company, Microsoft is committed to our journey for inclusion in every aspect of gaming, among both employees and players. We deeply value individual studio cultures. We also believe that creative success and autonomy go hand-in-hand with treating every person with dignity and respect. We hold all teams, and all leaders, to this commitment. We’re looking forward to extending our culture of proactive inclusion to the great teams across Activision Blizzard. lol a lot to unpack there
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:39
|
|
|
frajaq posted:what does this means for us MMO bros Can't be good.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:46
|
|
|
i can't wait until my office 365 subscription comes with a sub to wow classic
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:48
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:lol a lot to unpack there Yeah lol that’s definitely a “you know who you are, dust off your resumes” statement couched in an asterisk of “unless you’re really good at your job”
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:51
|
|
|
It looks like you're jumping out of your company with a golden parachute holding large brown sacks with dollar signs on them. Would you like help with that?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 14:53
|
|
|
So Microsoft now owns both World of Warcraft and The Elder Scrolls Online. Also explains why dozens more Blizzard employees were fired two days ago for sexual harassment and workplace misconduct.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 15:58
|
|
|
knox posted:Can't be good. There was a reason the CEO had not been fired yet, Selling the firm to Microsoft is a great way to make an exit since everyone on the board gets a really nice bonus and can exit quietly over the next few months.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 17:59
|
|
|
I can't wait for WoW players to start to be nostalgic about the pre-Microsoft era.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 18:41
|
|
|
Hellioning posted:I can't wait for WoW players to start to be nostalgic about the pre-Microsoft era. Most of us still cant forget the pre- Activision era. Blizzard was a very special firm from a very special time with almost unlimited money to make good games and not release them till they were fun and done. Today we get god knows what, but internal people have spoken up saying, "Does this fit our monetization strategy?"
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 18:47
|
|
|
frajaq posted:what does this means for us MMO bros WoW sub will be apart of Game Pass next year hopefully.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 18:53
|
|
|
PyRosflam posted:There was a reason the CEO had not been fired yet, Selling the firm to Microsoft is a great way to make an exit since everyone on the board gets a really nice bonus and can exit quietly over the next few months. For sure, in my opinion with Blizzard rep. in the shitter they're cashing out now while Microsoft sees what Amazon is doing MMO-wise and is copying them, like all these big corporations do (eg. streaming wars).
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 19:11
|
|
|
I would be shocked if Microsoft could gently caress ActiBlizz harder than it already has been hosed
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 20:09
|
|
|
There's a non-zero chance they might accidentally unfuck it. The odds for unfucking may in fact be better than loving. But probably not! Who wants to bet that this means Overwatch 2 will be a PC/Xbox exclusive (if it ever releases)?
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 20:12
|
|
|
frajaq posted:what does this means for us MMO bros There will never be a good MMO ever again.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 20:23
|
|
|
This really doesn't change anything for the MMORPG space. Blizzard is no longer relevant in the MMO genre, and Microsoft never cared.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 20:59
|
|
|
frajaq posted:what does this means for us MMO bros WoW on XBox.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 21:26
|
|
|
I was so hype for Overwatch back in the day. Wild to see how they hosed all that up.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 21:27
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:I was so hype for Overwatch back in the day. Wild to see how they hosed all that up. I played a ton of it but that was mostly because it was the game my buddies played and to me it was clearly the product of a project run by a guy who joined the company because he was an EQ poopsocker and had to be salvaged from a totally different kind of game.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 21:32
|
|
|
Kaysette posted:I was so hype for Overwatch back in the day. Wild to see how they hosed all that up. Overwatch in beta was a ton of fun. It just felt like they had no idea what made the game fun or how players wanted to play it when it came out. Also, I'm probably in the minority on this but I think adding a bunch of heroes, or at least, the types of heroes they added was a mistake. e: I wish they'd leaned more on the shooter aspect and less on the MOBA aspect.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 21:54
|
|
|
eonwe posted:Overwatch in beta was a ton of fun. It just felt like they had no idea what made the game fun or how players wanted to play it when it came out. Also, I'm probably in the minority on this but I think adding a bunch of heroes, or at least, the types of heroes they added was a mistake. I think the most common complaint from anyone who played the game at a professional level was that ults were too snowball-y and the entire game revolved around them, especially ones like Graviton Surge or Earthshatter which were almost impossible to play around I think the game was still mostly fun until they added Brigitte, who was seemingly designed to keep all six players on both teams stacked on top of each other permanently.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 22:02
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 24, 2024 09:20 |
|
|
eonwe posted:Overwatch in beta was a ton of fun. It just felt like they had no idea what made the game fun or how players wanted to play it when it came out. Also, I'm probably in the minority on this but I think adding a bunch of heroes, or at least, the types of heroes they added was a mistake. This is all correct.
|
|
#
?
Jan 18, 2022 22:06
|
|