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tildes posted:I got too into the weeds here for the survival thread but my impression is that the idea is basically true for modern epidemics- Covid kills like ~4% and leaves many asymptomatic for awhile/the whole time. So it kills a lot, but much less than in movies and not obviously. COVID barely cracks 1% in most countries as long as hospitalization is still available. The big thing that changes this is this also doesn't take into account it's extremely age related (~25% 85+, ~0.5% 40-49, ~0.05% 18-29), especially with vaccination. Protocol7 posted:I have no doubts if the apocalypse happened I'd certainly be like Zombie #437 or just immediately dead. Hey, I also consider I could be part of the, "murdered by bandits/shot accidentally by scared people" group!
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Jan 17, 2022 18:40
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I'd be the person who dies before it's even clear what's happening. Like the main character runs past my apartment door screaming so I peek out and all the zombies chasing him immediately grab me instead.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:06
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I'd move to my second floor and tear down the stairs 
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Jan 17, 2022 20:16
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Most irl survival stuff suffers from the problem of scale in dozens of ways. Without a sustainable solution or an I Am Legend situation where the resources of an entire city is at the disposal of one dude you're going to have issues within a month let alone a year. Hell, just look at the math. 100 cans of food, what a stash! That's a gigantic pile of food and metal! And it will last a family of three what, a single month? If you are only eating a single can of food a day, which is not enough calories to be happy. It really makes you wonder about people who are preppers, even the good ones with food and water and not just guns. What's the plan going forward? Among other things I like how World War Z talked about the people who fled up north to the cold to escape the zombies, but ran into the problem that even a handful of families will basically deforest an area within a month just to keep their fires going, let alone finding food and gasoline. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 20:38 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 20:32
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CuddleCryptid posted:Hell, just look at the math. 100 cans of food, what a stash! That's a gigantic pile of food and metal! And it will last a family of three what, a single month? If you are only eating a single can of food a day, which is not enough calories to be happy. With a few blankets you could sleep on several 50# sacks of rice and beans. Colonel J posted:I'd move to my second floor and tear down the stairs look at this fancy sledgehammer haver
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Jan 17, 2022 20:39
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HelloSailorSign posted:With a few blankets you could sleep on several 50# sacks of rice and beans. True, and that's what most actual preppers do. God knows that at the start of the pandemic every Tom, Dick, and Sally was buying bags of rice. But that's not what the image usually is, it's usually a closet full of little metal cans with green beans and soup.
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Jan 17, 2022 20:41
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One of the only viable solutions is to find which crops are historically indigenous to your area and hope the colonial power that occupies it hasn't caused it to go completely extinct. Where I am in the Sonoran was actually an extremely well-populated area and trade location prior to the Europeans despite the 115F+ summers because the corn at the time (modernly called gem corn in English) was easy to grow and much more nutritious, as well as seasonal crops with long shelf lives. We (by which I mean literally 1 O'odham family that kept it alive for hundreds of years) have a type of bean that's planted in the early summer before our monsoon season that has a huge output in the fall after 2-3 weeks of heavy rain. My meandering point being that long-term survival after collapse is doable if food is the only concern (it won't be) but ya gotta plan ahead and also stop thinking like white people. A huge amount of the population would probably die from just the electrical grid going out, even without zombies, once bad weather hits since most European-style homes and the modern US evolution of them mostly do not give a poo poo about properly adapting to extreme heat or cold.
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Jan 17, 2022 21:34
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there can only be so many zombies. maybe they will all die and we can go back to normal
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Jan 17, 2022 21:46
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Well, discounting the preppers who are just actually itching for an excuse for a race war, the thinking tends to be "I need enough to get through the initial few weeks of chaos/breakdown without having to leave my place; after that things will be calm enough that I can look to scavenge and then rebuild". But you do get the more hardcore types who lay in like three to five years of supplies. There is definitely a distinction between having like a week of supplies stored away in case there's some kind of disruption caused by a disaster or something, and actually being a per se prepper. e; But really I think the best suited places would be like, small to mid sized towns in the American west. Big cities would be charnel houses, and solitude is so high-risk almost everyone trying it would die, but you take somewhere in like the Rockies and chances are it'll be big enough that you have enough people to form the needed militia, work brigades, etc., big enough that it has a wide variety of specialities to keep things running and/or put up replacements (Plumbers, electricians, etc.), but not so big that it gets overwhelmed by infected from within and distant enough from other population centers that you're not in imminent danger of their populations shambling your way. Depends on how much it relies on importing stuff of course, be it physical goods, food, power, what have you. Ms Adequate fucked around with this message at 22:31 on Jan 17, 2022 |
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Jan 17, 2022 22:26
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Solitude is more of a risk because after a couple of months being entirely alone you'd want to jump off a cliff anyway.
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Jan 17, 2022 23:07
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Ms Adequate posted:e; But really I think the best suited places would be like, small to mid sized towns in the American west. Big cities would be charnel houses, and solitude is so high-risk almost everyone trying it would die, but you take somewhere in like the Rockies and chances are it'll be big enough that you have enough people to form the needed militia, work brigades, etc., big enough that it has a wide variety of specialities to keep things running and/or put up replacements (Plumbers, electricians, etc.), but not so big that it gets overwhelmed by infected from within and distant enough from other population centers that you're not in imminent danger of their populations shambling your way. Depends on how much it relies on importing stuff of course, be it physical goods, food, power, what have you. I haven't read it in well over a decade so I might be a bit off, but this sounds almost right out of the pages from The Stand. Smaller town in the Rockies, everyone doing their specialty to keep things somewhat serviceable, but not too big, etc.
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Jan 18, 2022 02:20
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small towns in the rockies do have an edge in that if a zombie apocalypse hit one you probably wouldn't notice anything change
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Jan 18, 2022 02:40
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dogstile posted:Solitude is more of a risk because after a couple of months being entirely alone you'd want to jump off a cliff anyway. hell is other people
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Jan 18, 2022 03:29
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CuddleCryptid posted:Most irl survival stuff suffers from the problem of scale in dozens of ways. Without a sustainable solution or an I Am Legend situation where the resources of an entire city is at the disposal of one dude you're going to have issues within a month let alone a year. you basically end up with well-armed farmer/hunter/gatherer communities and pretty much everyone not in that is either doing banditry, living off a finite cache of supplies, or dead tbh the most interesting thing about this stuff in the US context is that well-armed people would be like the least in demand thing. People who know how to grow food or have the ability and knowledge to produce basic medicines eg aspirin and antibiotics or have mechanical/plumbing/electrical skills are the real limiting factor. Gun hoarders are a dime a dozen and you can always just shoot them and then you have their guns, plus then you don't have to worry about them being a problem later. Shoot a guy who can grow food and well congrats now you starve. Meanwhile a community with one more experienced farmer has a vastly better chance of succesfully feeding itself mid-long term. e: having read up to this point, yeah basically what Ms. Adequate said also Vib Rib posted:I'd be the person who dies before it's even clear what's happening. Like the main character runs past my apartment door screaming so I peek out and all the zombies chasing him immediately grab me instead. same and tbh that's probably the luckiest person in the whole thing. From talking to people who have been through societal collapses, yeah you just don't want any part of it Herstory Begins Now fucked around with this message at 03:38 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 03:32
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HelloSailorSign posted:look at this fancy sledgehammer haver You could probably do it with a controlled fire.
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Jan 18, 2022 06:15
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if the past couple of years have taught us anything about how western culture might deal with a society breaking plague disaster, it's that all of our fiction is just way too optimistic lol https://twitter.com/NBCNews/status/1482918365400379393
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Jan 18, 2022 08:34
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CuddleCryptid posted:Among other things I like how World War Z talked about the people who fled up north to the cold to escape the zombies, but ran into the problem that even a handful of families will basically deforest an area within a month just to keep their fires going, let alone finding food and gasoline. ??? a medium sized tree can heat 100 sq ft for a winter. Are these people taking up in abandoned mcmansions?
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Jan 18, 2022 09:09
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30.5 Days posted:??? a medium sized tree can heat 100 sq ft for a winter. Are these people taking up in abandoned mcmansions? Canada: Famously deforested during the thousands of years of human history before modern in-home heating.
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Jan 18, 2022 10:00
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30.5 Days posted:??? a medium sized tree can heat 100 sq ft for a winter. Are these people taking up in abandoned mcmansions?
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Jan 18, 2022 10:04
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they'd run out of food way before firewood was a big problem anyway e: I hope China gives up on Zero Zombies https://twitter.com/matthewstoller/status/1482578991349477376 that's an economist think tanker Flesh Forge fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 12:16
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30.5 Days posted:??? a medium sized tree can heat 100 sq ft for a winter. Are these people taking up in abandoned mcmansions? It's been years since I read the book and I don't remember firewood specifically being the problem, but it was huge camps full of cities worth of refugees setting up in the arctic, staying in nothing but RVs and cheap camping tents, who were initially treating the situation like a camping trip that would be over in a few weeks/months. No real forward planning, blowing through supplies without a care until it was too late to start rationing them, and everyone's now trapped because all the gas got siphoned out of the cars to fuel fires. Even if they could move the vehicles, the camp has turned the terrain into a mud pit that you'd never get an offroader out of, let alone an SUV or RV.
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Jan 18, 2022 13:26
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Icedude posted:It's been years since I read the book and I don't remember firewood specifically being the problem, but it was huge camps full of cities worth of refugees setting up in the arctic, staying in nothing but RVs and cheap camping tents, who were initially treating the situation like a camping trip that would be over in a few weeks/months. Yeah this is basically it. The problem was that every family treated it as a little getaway for a couple of weeks and therefore literally burned through the resources around them at an extravagant pace, but didn't take into account that they were one of hundreds of people in the area. There was no community built either, so resources were wasted just because they weren't shared. A tree might be able to warm a cabin fine, but an open fire out in the air for every individual family in the area burning hot 24/7 isn't going to be very sustainable. Combined with everyone being very ill prepared for the realities of living outside in winter and a ton of people die. CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 14:11
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To be fair it's a pretty dumb book that also claimed everyone in china burrowed underground.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:17
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When talking actual survival from the elements alone i think even bear grylls would be a better source than the writer for WWZ. And he's awful.
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Jan 18, 2022 17:33
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If you are taking survival advice from any media involving zombies then you're probably screwed regardless. E. I take it back, "don't let people bite you" is pretty good advice regardless of situation CuddleCryptid fucked around with this message at 19:18 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 19:13
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zombieland had cardio, double tap and uhh whatever else they used to pad out the rest of em im impressed with zomboid, vanilla is hard as hell but tweak the settings like have no infection and play multiplayer/host so you get a safe house with persistant inventory and it still remains challenging but not quite so gently caress you newbie. im p sure you could remove all the zombies altogether and have a RP MMO server and it would still be pretty fun, its a nice engine for something thats a decade old.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:31
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Icedude posted:It's been years since I read the book and I don't remember firewood specifically being the problem, but it was huge camps full of cities worth of refugees setting up in the arctic, staying in nothing but RVs and cheap camping tents, who were initially treating the situation like a camping trip that would be over in a few weeks/months. Sounds like a very scientific book. E: I know that the first thing to do in an apocalypse is to take an rv on a jaunt to the arctic of all places. Private Speech fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 20:11
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Private Speech posted:Sounds like a very scientific book. Well, the idea was that zombies would freeze if they tried to walk in -10°F weather for 200 miles. Really people just went to Canada. That would be something interesting to add to zomboid, if you let the game run long enough then the zombies freeze over the course of a week of exposure and then you can explore freely, but your water supply is hosed.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:27
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CuddleCryptid posted:Yeah this is basically it. The problem was that every family treated it as a little getaway for a couple of weeks and therefore literally burned through the resources around them at an extravagant pace, but didn't take into account that they were one of hundreds of people in the area. There was no community built either, so resources were wasted just because they weren't shared. A tree might be able to warm a cabin fine, but an open fire out in the air for every individual family in the area burning hot 24/7 isn't going to be very sustainable. Combined with everyone being very ill prepared for the realities of living outside in winter and a ton of people die. They also depopulated the lake they were fishing from by dynamiting it repeatedly. World War Z was a fun book. ravenkult posted:To be fair it's a pretty dumb book that also claimed everyone in china burrowed underground. I thought that was North Korea?
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Jan 18, 2022 22:17
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North Korea went underground, China was where the virus originated
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Jan 18, 2022 22:51
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The only long term viable way of life that Humans know of is hunter-gathering. It's still too early to say for sure about subsistence farming.
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Jan 18, 2022 23:40
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Kill All Cops posted:im impressed with zomboid, vanilla is hard as hell but tweak the settings like have no infection and play multiplayer/host so you get a safe house with persistant inventory and it still remains challenging but not quite so gently caress you newbie. im p sure you could remove all the zombies altogether and have a RP MMO server and it would still be pretty fun, its a nice engine for something thats a decade old. You could probably do some quick calculations to determine how much to add to the crop timers and yield to make it more realistic, same too with the fishing/trapping abundance. Make food and heat the determinants if you survive or not. No zombies would also remove the replenish able clothing/zombie loot, which would also change things a lot.
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Jan 19, 2022 01:00
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It sounds like the best way to survive societal breakdown is to form a community and to specialize within it. Whoever said that we would revert to hunter/gather is probably closest to on the mark, except so many people would die before humanity hit a new equilibrium. The difference between single player and multiplayer zomboid is crazy. I’m having a great time with my pals, it basically plays like a video game version of zombieland. My character was a burglar and hotwired cars for everyone, another friend was an engineer and made pipe bombs for us, another went veteran and took point on raids, etc. Meanwhile the single player feels bleak, my dude barely made it out of town and is now in a house in the sticks. The house and surrounding field are clear, but everywhere just a bit further out is crawling with zombies. It legitimately stressed me out and I had to take a break, lol. What mods are y’all using? I’ve mostly been puttering about with the steam workshop. “Just throw dead zombies out the window” and “wring out your wet clothes” have been must-haves.
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Jan 19, 2022 09:37
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Can’t we burn zombie for heat?
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Jan 19, 2022 13:17
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pogi posted:The difference between single player and multiplayer zomboid is crazy. I’m having a great time with my pals, it basically plays like a video game version of zombieland. My character was a burglar and hotwired cars for everyone, another friend was an engineer and made pipe bombs for us, another went veteran and took point on raids, eout your wet clothes” have been must-haves.tc. It is amazing how Zomboid captures the feeling of the zombie apocalypse so well. Get three people together and it's a fun high-stakes group project. Solo it's just a routine of sneaking around, living in whatever room can give you any protection from the outside while eating up whatever resources are there, and then ten hours in drinking bleach just because the quiet and Isolation has driven you out of your head with boredom.
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Jan 19, 2022 14:18
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other people have mentioned this before but it's also one of the only games I've ever seen that even tries to show you the deterioration and decay of all the buildings and streets as time passes, it does that super well 
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Jan 19, 2022 14:28
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pogi posted:What mods are y’all using? I’ve mostly been puttering about with the steam workshop. “Just throw dead zombies out the window” and “wring out your wet clothes” have been must-haves. Defs Long Term Survival - there are a few mods that exist to provide some amount of replenishing capability for different things as well as long term food solutions, this is the one I've used most. Foraging nuts that can be used to make flour or butter, fruit/vegetable/meat drying processes (takes a few days to a week to dry things, so it's definitely for base builders), making salt substitute from wood ash, recycling clothing into thread/twine/rope, forgeable honey (that can be used to make honey or sugar), that kind of thing. Soul Filcher's mods - I use farming and clothing (dressing?) time. Farming adds some nice things; wheat you can grind into flour, beets you can cook down into sugar, farmable corn, etc. Their other mods add all sorts of different things, some gameplay changing, some not. Immersive solar arrays - adds solar panels. Definitely a late game thing I've gotten nowhere near to. Adds the ability to change the efficiency of the panels at start so you can have it be accurate to early 90s solar tech, i.e. a big array can help you keep a freezer and electric oven going, maybe a few lights, but not a lot else. Lets you save gasoline for the cars. Dynamic Traits - it's fun to lose and gain more traits over time. Playable arcade machines - if you got power, you can bring these home and decrease boredom and unhappiness in different ways other than, "I combined these few berries into a bowl, this makes me happy!" Save our station - I've not been able to interact with this one much. Adds a broadcast station that continues the emergency broadcast local weather conditions and forecasts on the radio forever, but may break down from time to time meaning you have to go there (several locations) and figure out how to fix it if you want to keep using that HAM radio at base for... something other than decoration. Also gives you a reason to head out of base. Flesh Forge posted:other people have mentioned this before but it's also one of the only games I've ever seen that even tries to show you the deterioration and decay of all the buildings and streets as time passes, it does that super well Yeah the erosion stuff gets super neat but gently caress the saplings scratching my car on dirt roads suuuuuck.
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Jan 19, 2022 18:43
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"Unload" is the mandatory mod for me. Right-shift (rebindable) to auto-unpack similar non-favorited, non-equipped items from your inventory into nearby storage. No setup required, stand with your storage in range and (for example) have 3(configurable) or more weapons in a nearby inventory it dumps all the weapons there, ammo in the ammo box next to it, electronic scraps in the electronics box, whatever. It's a fantastic quality of life and a huge timesaver. You also kind-of need a sister-mod "Better Sorting" which provides more sensible category names to get full use of it, renaming categories of stuff like "food - perishable" so you it splits your edibles properly and auto-unload directly into fridges and cans into crates.
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Jan 20, 2022 23:54
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So I've already reached the farming simulator stage of the game. Neighborhood walled in, superfluous door now that I realized you can vault over walls that high. Guess it will be useful if I break my leg out there.  Not really sure what to do next. Build rain collectors and wait for the water to go out, I suppose.
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Jan 21, 2022 00:38
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Animal-Mother posted:So I've already reached the farming simulator stage of the game. This screenshot looks ripped directly from The Sims 1. Those are all buyable/buildable objects. Wave of nostalgia. All you need is a plumbob
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Jan 21, 2022 01:24
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