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The liberal democrats will...quote:Ensure that financial resources, and police and court time, are not quote:Always base drugs policy on independent scientific advice, including https://www.markpack.org.uk/files/2015/01/Liberal-Democrat-manifesto-2010.pdf There is genuinely some good poo poo in there. It was at least as progressive as labour's at the time and I'm pretty sure none of us who voted for them wanted them in coalition with the haunted ham club. e. 87... the lower bound estimate of the number of things in the above document that they betrayed us on jiggerypokery fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 19:16
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Unbelievable, when you think about it, that they ever got a single vote ever again, let alone getting people pushing them as the pragmatic alternative in a progressive alliance.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:19
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BTW marmite and cheese is a pro-tier combination. I resisted it for years (despite loving marmite from when I were a nipper) but it really is very good. Especially if you put some marmite and a little butter on a crumpet and then cheese on top and toast it.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:26
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Jakabite posted:No, it still doesn't matter then. When you're gurning about those blasted anarchists just not wanting to work with Leninists, yes, the historical context of Marxist-Leninists actions towards anarchists from 1917 until 1991 is relevant my guy. fuctifino posted:We all believed in Nick. No we didn't. He was poo poo. We knew from day 1 what Nick Clegg & friends stood for & it was a clear turning back the clock to a viciously uncaring & cruel Gladstonian liberalism. David Davis, Tory shitbag, read it & thought there was a lot to agree with there. And we knew this in 2004 with the publishing of The Orange Book, while Kennedy was still leader & the liberals looked like the only party with a chance of winning in FPTP a decent number of seats who opposed the Iraq War. 2005 was the year to vote Lib Dem, 2010 was just people getting caught up in Clegg's TV appearances. I need to find a copy of this lovely book, I want to read the chapter by David Laws, "UK health services: a liberal agenda for reform", that'll be a loving hoot.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:27
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For most people voting lib dem in 2010, that was the first general election they could vote.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:30
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Prole posted:Unbelievable, when you think about it, that they ever got a single vote ever again, let alone getting people pushing them as the pragmatic alternative in a progressive alliance.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:30
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forkboy84 posted:When you're gurning about those blasted anarchists just not wanting to work with Leninists, yes, the historical context of Marxist-Leninists actions towards anarchists from 1917 until 1991 is relevant my guy. I mean I think a lot of people ITT (myself included) didn't have the awareness to know what the Orange Book was in 2010 and still viewed the LDs as a more left-wing party than Labour (though, maybe they still were more left-wing than Blairite Labour at the time?). I didn't actually vote for them because I was in the speaker's seat and couldn't. I can't remember if I voted at all (would have been for some independent or lesser party) or if I just sacked it off. In any case I was shocked that the LDs who I viewed as a left-wing party and somebody I could see myself voting for, sided with the Tories over Labour.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:31
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jiggerypokery posted:It was at least as progressive as labour's at the time And then passing laws that were chemically illiterate because a couple of overworked spads during washup can't into IUPAC, lol. So yeah more progressive than labours at the time, which is not hard at all. However in exchange for a 5p tax on ziploc bags...
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Jan 18, 2022 19:33
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jiggerypokery posted:For most people voting lib dem in 2010, that was the first general election they could vote. 2005 was my first election. I voted Labour because I wasn't really all that read up on anything political and that's just what you did 'round here. 2010 - Lib Dem 2015 - Labour (tentatively) 2017 - Labour (enthusiastically) 2019 - Labour (grudgingly) What a loving waste. Never again. No big promises or vaguely hopefully lurches left will get me voting Labour again*
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Jan 18, 2022 19:35
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Calico Heart posted:What are the odds conservatives think Maxwell is ganna name and shame Boris/his wife/his family and are hoping to oust him before that happens? Very close to zero. Johnson (despite being born there) was never part of the New York/DC social circuit where the majority of flight log names come from. That's not to say there's not some other big dirt about him, he has a personal life like seven Carry On films at once, but there's hugely more grot out there outside of that one black book.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:36
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jiggerypokery posted:For most people voting lib dem in 2010, that was the first general election they could vote. Yes, I suppose this makes sense & is unfair of me to be blunt because I was already in my mid-20s by 2010, & my first election was back in 2003 (Holyrood election where the SSP got 6 seats & Greens had 7. And then the SSP split. Good ol' Trots). I tend to forget that not everyone was a sicko like me. Trying to remember. I think in '03 I voted for SNP constituency & SSP list. '05 i went Lib Dem because the local New Labour was a loving turd yes man who never broke the whip as far as I remember, '07 I think was SNP & SSP again but I'm not positive. 2010 I was in Glasgow in what was then a safe Labour seat & voted for the SNP because they were the only party with a chance of beating Anas Sarwar who was taking the seat from his old man, good ol' Labour nepotism. 2011...I can't remember. I don't remember if I'd had my iffy moment where I bad a bit of a mental breakdown or was still in Glasgow at that point. Or maybe it was 2012 that happened. Actually, that was in the summer so either way I'd have been in Glasgow & so I'm pretty sure I went SNP/Green because the local MSP was Sturgeon. Also the AV referendum that year, what a hoot that was, a nice warm-up for Brexit that was. Voted Yes despite the option up to vote was one no one actually wanted. 2014, voted for Independence. 2015, went for the SNP & was absolutely loving thrilled to see Danny Alexander, my MP, get put firmly in the loving bin, 2016 went Labour & Greens, Brexit I went Remain, god I have a poo poo loving track record in referenda, good job I couldn't vote in the devo referendum or we'd have no Holyrood. Think I also went Labour in 2017 but I'm not positive. 2019 I definitely voted Labour, presumably for the last time ever. 2021 at Holyrood, gently caress. I could've gone SNP/Green, I can't remember if the Greens ran a local candidate. Not touching local elections because we've had STV for them for 15 years. forkboy84 fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 19:38
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Guavanaut posted:illegally passing new drug laws I mean that's just not a thing. Stupidly, yes, maliciously, definitely, but if a law gets passed it's legal, that's sort of how laws work.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:39
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It was passed without a veterinarian sitting on the ACMD, contrary to what existing legislation said, and so had to be rewritten entirely under the coalition.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:40
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Reading it now, i'd vote for it again if someone put that manifesto forward now.WhatEvil posted:In any case I was shocked that the LDs who I viewed as a left-wing party and somebody I could see myself voting for, sided with the Tories over Labour. You and thousands of others. Funny that a progressive manifesto got them their biggest result ever and they did that. The narrative that the betrayal was tuition fees is just bullshit. The same big progressive energy that poured into Corbyn was brewing in 2010. I expect the apathy that followed hurt Miliband way more than anything Miliband did or didn't do.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:40
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goddamnedtwisto posted:Very close to zero. Johnson (despite being born there) was never part of the New York/DC social circuit where the majority of flight log names come from. That's not to say there's not some other big dirt about him, he has a personal life like seven Carry On films at once, but there's hugely more grot out there outside of that one black book. However, Blair and Mandelson... I think that's an area to keep an eye on. The Mandelson connection in particular is going to be dragged up when the papers finally need to kneecap Keith.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:41
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Communist Thoughts posted:And they've gone up to 10 pts ahead They've not really gone up so much as support for the Tories has plummeted. All it would take is a New head on the rotting corpse of the Tory party and for the press to fall back in line behind them and that lead will evaporate.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:41
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Must suck to be English and only have terrible political parties to vote for.forkboy84 posted:Yes, I suppose this makes sense & is unfair of me to be blunt because I was already in my mid-20s by 2010, & my first election was back in 2003 (Holyrood election where the SSP got 6 seats & Greens had 7. And then the SSP split. Good ol' Trots). I tend to forget that not everyone was a sicko like me. Hi five if you also voted SSP in your first election.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:41
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Wild to remember there was a point when the lib dems were attacking Labour from the left, even if they did have their fingers crossed behind their backs the whole time.keep punching joe posted:Must suck to be English and only have terrible political parties to vote for. I mean I'd hardly call the SNP any great left wing party, but at least they actually believe in something. Are Plaid more genuinely socialist or are they the same kind of big tent independence is all that matters thing? I don't really pay attention to (South) Irish politics but I've got a sudden urge to see how FF and FG, apparently mortal enemies, spun going into coalition vs SF. You'd think it would torpedo any credibility either had instantly. ThomasPaine fucked around with this message at 19:48 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 19:42
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I wonder if that actually makes them stealth anti-prohibitionists, because anyone who actually challenged that amendment in court with a decent legal team would have knocked the whole thing over instantly. "Alan Johnson, secretly progressive and hyper-competent" is not a believable conspiracy even for flat earthers though.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:43
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Didn't he wander away from his handlers during a party in Italy or something? Seem to remember people saying something about that around the time the Trimp / compromat rumours were around.
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Jan 18, 2022 19:45
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keep punching joe posted:Must suck to be English and only have terrible political parties to vote for. I did. God, I remember watching that election live on the telly while chatting poo poo on MSN in a group chat & just howling with excitement at the SSP doing so well. Exciting time.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:00
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ThomasPaine posted:
Spotted your problem there. people vote for FF or FG because they have been told to, and their parents did. They've always held fairly inseparable positions , the "Grand Coalition" was just a concretisation of what was already known if you had the most basic political nous. Though now they are yoked to each other, and maybe can drag each other into oblivion while voters scream for some oval office to fix the housing crisis. Or y'know SF will go into business with FF, stranger things have happened
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Jan 18, 2022 20:00
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forkboy84 posted:When you're gurning about those blasted anarchists just not wanting to work with Leninists, yes, the historical context of Marxist-Leninists actions towards anarchists from 1917 until 1991 is relevant my guy. Firstly, I am an anarchist. I'm annoyed at my own side. And sorry, but things that happened in wildly different situations over a hundred years ago aren't relevant to a bunch of activists organising in the UK in 2022. The chances of a group of Socialist Alternative members deciding to massacre us after a successful collaborative action are not all that my guy.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:06
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Failed Imagineer posted:Spotted your problem there. I do honestly struggle to understand why they're different parties and I have no idea how they do election campaigns when they're so obviously barely distinguishable. Vote for me over that guy! Why? Eh, good point. In a hundred years you would have thought the political landscape would settle around parties that at least made a decent show of being opposed to one another. Bizarre that Irish Labour etc are so small, though I guess good that the Irish left seems able to throw most of its weight behind one party (SF)?
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Jan 18, 2022 20:11
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Jakabite posted:The chances of a group of Socialist Alternative members deciding to massacre us after a successful collaborative action are not all that my guy. When they're not doing sex crime and racist jazz nights.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:12
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I will always enjoy the irony of anarchists organising and the ensuing mental gymnastics about why it isn't a contradiction in terms
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Jan 18, 2022 20:12
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ThomasPaine posted:I do honestly struggle to understand why they're different parties and I have no idea how they do election campaigns when they're so obviously barely distinguishable. Vote for me over that guy! Why? Eh, good point. It's really not difficult at all. You have a century of resentment stemming from the Civil War and recapitulated through the subsequent generations, combined with the extremely parochial nature of politics in most of the country. Nobody cares about policies, and debates are just point-scoring sub-college debate showcases. Irish Labour have just consistently disgraced themselves in ways that would make the Lib Dems blush
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Jan 18, 2022 20:15
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jiggerypokery posted:I will always enjoy the irony of anarchists organising and the ensuing mental gymnastics about why it isn't a contradiction in terms Anarchism is opposed to hierarchy, not organisation.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:18
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jiggerypokery posted:I will always enjoy the irony of anarchists organising and the ensuing mental gymnastics about why it isn't a contradiction in terms Maybe I'm being dim, so apologies if so. But why would anarchists be against organising?
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Jan 18, 2022 20:19
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Who wants to be my guy?
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Jan 18, 2022 20:20
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Barry Foster posted:Anarchism is opposed to hierarchy, not organisation. In that it's been done to death since the 1890s, yet still manages to cause splits, and then on top of that people keep kramering in and saying "is a toothbrush private property?"
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Jan 18, 2022 20:23
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Renting out my toothbrush at a punitive rate to own the Trots
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Jan 18, 2022 20:25
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The (all too often wilful) conflation of private and personal property, either by the ignorant or the bad faith, is why this debate will run and run. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet it's always the way with criticisms of this stuff: Oh you want the homeless housed? Yet you have a home. I am very smart.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:27
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Failed Imagineer posted:
Gonna spend the next few years desperately trying to force a referendum petition through the Oireachtas requiring that 84yo Higgins goes around the world, winning elections for lovely red rose parties. Prole posted:The (all too often wilful) conflation of private and personal property, either by the ignorant or the bad faith, is why this debate will run and run. It's not a difficult concept to grasp, yet it's always the way with criticisms of this stuff: Oh you want the homeless housed? Yet you have a home. I am very smart. The problem with honest explanations of left policies in plain language is that the public tend to say "yeah I want that", so youre only allowed to talk about leftists if you're a fash, a moron, or a continental philosopher Spangly A fucked around with this message at 20:31 on Jan 18, 2022 |
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Jan 18, 2022 20:29
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Spangly A posted:Gonna spend the next few years desperately trying to force a referendum petition through the Oireachtas requiring that 84yo Higgins goes around the world, winning elections for lovely red rose parties. He really is the Irish Bernie/Jeremy, all 3 are good lads wasted in a party of spineless wastemen
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Jan 18, 2022 20:30
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Prole posted:I've just read something that made me realise that Gordon Brown is probably the best PM this country has had in my lifetime, and now I want to walk into the sea with no clothes on and then just keep walking... Reginald Perrin 2.0?
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Jan 18, 2022 20:36
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Spangly A posted:The problem with honest explanations of left policies in plain language is that the public tend to say "yeah I want that", so youre only allowed to talk about leftists if you're a fash, a moron, or a continental philosopher Yup. Any real detail and it's "broadband communism" and "nationalised sausages" or worse... "Errr the Nazis were socialists. They were NATIONAL SOCIALISTS; the clue is in the name!!!" which leads to "Jam-making social democrat plans to reopen Auschwitz". Hard to believe any of the poo poo that went on when you look back. Edit: Great. Now I've depressed myself again. Off to read some early Ballard to cheer myself up.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:37
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Failed Imagineer posted:It's really not difficult at all. You have a century of resentment stemming from the Civil War and recapitulated through the subsequent generations, combined with the extremely parochial nature of politics in most of the country. Nobody cares about policies, and debates are just point-scoring sub-college debate showcases. Nowadays FF/FG are nothing more than the two faces of the same fake coin. Meanwhile i get to choose between DUP, UUP, TUV, SDLP, SF and Alliance in this years election.  SDLP aren't what they used to be so it'll be Alliance again, pity i live in the DUP zone but a vote is a vote.
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Jan 18, 2022 20:48
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Towards the gleam of fires, the throb of drums, the drone of weird incantations; this alone had beguiled his unlawful soul beyond the bounds of permitted aspirations toJust Another Lurker posted:the DUP zone
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Jan 18, 2022 20:55
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Prole posted:Yup. Any real detail and it's "broadband communism" and "nationalised sausages" or worse... "Errr the Nazis were socialists. They were NATIONAL SOCIALISTS; the clue is in the name!!!" which leads to "Jam-making social democrat plans to reopen Auschwitz". Oh god oh god, a friend turned round to me one day and said "have you heard of horseshoe theory?" closely followed by "the nazis were socialists it's in the name". I just looked at her and said "Come off it, {name of friend}, you're better than that." Anyway discussions since then she seems to have got off that thought train. Bobby Deluxe posted:Didn't he wander away from his handlers during a party in Italy or something? Seem to remember people saying something about that around the time the Trimp / compromat rumours were around. Yeah, he went to party with Evgeney Lebedev and stayed away all night IIRC.
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