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BoldFace posted:Remember that one time not so long ago when Russia shot down a commercial passenger jet full of people flying over Ukraine? I believe you mean a fake flight with crisis actors and CIA plants, just like when the CIA exploded ammo depot over here and then framed some random Russia tourists.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:28
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Terminal autist posted:Seems like if both sides of a conflict have actual Nazis fighting a war maybe we shouldn't take a side and let them sort it out, reminds me a bit of Syria huh Every side in every conflict s going to have some, since every country is full of fuckheads, however Luhansk and Donetsk and other Russia supported groups are the only ones that consist almost exclusively of Nazis, though. Also lollontee is full of poo poo.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:29
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Still a better post than the last one on previous page.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:29
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cinci zoo sniper posted:According to FT, Russia is open to further diplomacy on the topic of Ukraine, as a consequence to today’s meeting between Blinken and Lavrov. At the same time, Russia has clarified that it demand NATO troops entirely gone from east of Germany, it seems, since the FT article is saying the demand is for “NATO to remove all its forces from Bulgaria, Romania, and other ex-communist states”. Yeah, which again, would mean basically kicking Poland and multiple other Eastern European countries out of Nato.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:29
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CommieGIR posted:No I want you to, within the frame of the CURRENT Insurgency and Russian intervention, show me where this ethnic cleansing is? If your argument rests on Donbass needing Russian support to stop a genocide, then show me where that is and when was it occurring from 2014 till now? https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ heres a good one going through the roots of the conflict
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Jan 21, 2022 18:29
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steinrokkan posted:Every side in every conflict s going to have some, Luhansk and Donetsk and other Russia supported groups are the only ones that consist almost exclusively of Nazis, though. Also lollontee is full of poo poo. Internecine sectarian conflicts are really loving bad I dont know what the correct thing to do is but finding the biggest psycho in the region and giving them crates full of guns and unmarked bills has a observable horrible track record.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:31
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lollontee posted:https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/  This guy is in here quoting basically Stormfront 2.0, are we seriously going to pretend this is "discussion" and tolerable? steinrokkan fucked around with this message at 18:36 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 18:32
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lollontee posted:https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ You realize that's a Russian funded think tank, right and is largely viewed as an arm of the russian government? quote:The Strategic Culture Foundation is a Russian think tank that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. It is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests by the United States government.[1] Bonus points for funding a conspiracy theorist who does Holocaust Denials quote:One of the leading columnists is the American conservative journalist and former CIA officer Philip Giraldi, a conspiracy theorist who has contributed pieces on numerous political issues, flirting with Holocaust denial, and outspoken in his criticism of Zionism.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:32
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Terminal autist posted:Internecine sectarian conflicts are really loving bad I dont know what the correct thing to do is but finding the biggest psycho in the region and giving them crates full of guns and unmarked bills has a observable horrible track record. Ukraine isn't the biggest psycho by a long shot.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:33
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lollontee posted:https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ Nice article by a 5G death rays truther, lmao.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:33
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CommieGIR posted:You realize that's a Russian funded think tank, right and is largely viewed as an arm of the russian government? It's a "journal" that unironically posts about the dangers of judeobolshevism. You are selling it short.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:34
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what a normal organization. quote:The Strategic Culture Foundation is a Russian think tank that primarily publishes an online current affairs magazine of the same name. It is regarded as an arm of Russian state interests by the United States government.[1]
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Jan 21, 2022 18:34
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cinci zoo sniper posted:According to FT, Russia is open to further diplomacy on the topic of Ukraine, as a consequence to today’s meeting between Blinken and Lavrov. At the same time, Russia has clarified that it demand NATO troops entirely gone from east of Germany, it seems, since the FT article is saying the demand is for “NATO to remove all its forces from Bulgaria, Romania, and other ex-communist states”. Yeah I was waiting for that one.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:34
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steinrokkan posted:I'm sorry your best buddy Nazis got hurt Okay, lollontee is extremely dumb, but let's also not brand all civilians who died during the conflict as nazis.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:35
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steinrokkan posted:Ukraine isn't the biggest psycho by a long shot. Talking about the individual actors and I'm sure the DoD and CIA already have a list of sadistic sickos
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Jan 21, 2022 18:35
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Xarn posted:I agree, CommieGIR should moderate the thread. I also agree, I thought wishing death on people you disagree with wouldn't be permissible. If I'm mistaken, though, I'd appreciate some enlightenment.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:36
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steinrokkan posted:
lol I knew it was going to be bad, I didn’t expect it to be that bad.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:36
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TipTow posted:I also agree, I thought wishing death on people you disagree with wouldn't be permissible. If I'm mistaken, though, I'd appreciate some enlightenment. I am willing to eat the probe if this thread gets rid of idiots like you and tee.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:38
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As I understand the new-ish guidelines in D&D, lollontee is allowed to advance any argument they want. Instead of simply posting this link: https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ I would ask lollontee to explain, in their own words, what exactly their understanding of the roots of the conflict are and why that source is a good reference on the subject. Everyone else please take a short break and allow lollontee to make thir argument. edit: they can make any argument they want, as long as they can support it
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Jan 21, 2022 18:38
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lollontee posted:heres a good one going through the roots of the conflict лмао also yeah, i'd rather the thread doesn't fall into the other extreme and call everyone on the DNR/LNR side a nazi. i think we can all agree that it's a tad more complicated than that (oh yeah, just found out that apparently my favourite monarchist and FSB guy Igor Girkin/Strelkov was directly involved with the Prizrak battalion. which is, lmao)
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Jan 21, 2022 18:42
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Fritz the Horse posted:As I understand the new-ish guidelines in D&D, lollontee is allowed to advance any argument they want. Is this a bad joke? Are we back to mods rewarding posters for making a "supported" list of arguments on why islamophobia s justified? I thought that approach to moderation was roundly and rightly mocked.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:42
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https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/russian-convoy-crosses-border-ukraine-without-permission if you recall these aid convoys, they were in response to a blockade instituted on the luhansk and donetsk territories. people were being starved CommieGIR posted:You realize that's a Russian funded think tank, right and is largely viewed as an arm of the russian government? i was actually writing a joke post with that on another tab, posted by mistake. anyway, you do want us go through the early luhansk and donetsk events? what do you remember of it?
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Jan 21, 2022 18:45
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Fritz the Horse posted:As I understand the new-ish guidelines in D&D, lollontee is allowed to advance any argument they want. Maybe I’m the slow one here, please clarify for me - do the new rules explicitly allow to promote anything, including internationally recognised crimes like ethnic cleansing, so long as the person endorsing them has an internally consistent perception of the act? What’s the contingency plan for when reddit refugees come to D&D to argue about age of consent?
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Jan 21, 2022 18:45
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lollontee posted:https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ Olga Chetverikova, leader of the Immune Response movement against vaccination? really seems more like a crank parroting the talking points of her favorite political party
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Jan 21, 2022 18:45
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lollontee posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/russian-convoy-crosses-border-ukraine-without-permission Where were you going to post that as a joke?
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Jan 21, 2022 18:46
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steinrokkan posted:Is this a bad joke? nope Koos Group posted:If someone posted a two hour video about holocaust denial I would probably remove it and force them to summarize it themselves instead, since relying on something like that to make all of your points is as you imply an onerous burden to put on your opponents, as well as not your original thoughts. If they were posting essays someone else wrote as their own they would also be punished for both spamming and acting in bad faith. I'm not saying what lollontee posted is the same as holocaust denial, but I would like them to summarize their argument and defend their use of the source, then we'll go from there. I skimmed the last few pages of the thread, they will be acted on. Most of the mods are in the middle of their work day or asleep right now. edit: cinci zoo sniper posted:Maybe I’m the slow one here, please clarify for me - do the new rules explicitly allow to promote anything, including internationally recognised crimes like ethnic cleansing, so long as the person endorsing them has an internally consistent perception of the act? see above quote from Koos Group. This is a bit of a test case.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:47
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lollontee posted:i was actually writing a joke post with that on another tab, posted by mistake Okay.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:48
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Fritz the Horse posted:I skimmed the last few pages of the thread, they will be acted on. Most of the mods are in the middle of their work day or asleep right now. sorry about making it so hot by my mere presence i guess!
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Jan 21, 2022 18:48
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Fritz the Horse posted:Everyone else please take a short break and allow lollontee to make thir argument. Any conclusion follows from a false premise. At some point you have to look at the sort of "support" he's trying to use. It's pretty brutal.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:51
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lollontee posted:sorry about making it so hot by my mere presence i guess! no no your presence is absolutely fine, really please, tell us more about internationalist ml brigades engaged in revolutionary struggle against Evil ukronazis - fighting side by side with FSB monarchists and russian nazis (the Good kind) don't forget to link an article from a site that seems to publish every single right-wing crank in russian infosphere (as a joke, of course) nurmie fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 18:53
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Fritz the Horse posted:As I understand the new-ish guidelines in D&D, lollontee is allowed to advance any argument they want. Instead of simply posting this link: https://www.strategic-culture.org/news/2014/07/06/donbass-russians-subject-unparalleled-ethnic-cleansing/ lollontee posted:sorry about making it so hot by my mere presence i guess! We're waiting.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:54
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lollontee posted:sorry about making it so hot by my mere presence i guess! So you were going to post a link to an antisemitic (and a whole lot else) conspiracy theory organization as a joke, correct?
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Jan 21, 2022 18:54
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Fritz the Horse posted:So you were going to post a link to an antisemitic (and a whole lot else) conspiracy theory organization as a joke, correct? as a satiristic response to what is being demanded of me, which is a short history on the origins of luhansk-donetsk crisis, yes. i trust that i can have like a day or two to write that? i got other poo poo to do tonight, but ill get to it tomorrow (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 21, 2022 18:57
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lollontee posted:https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/22/russian-convoy-crosses-border-ukraine-without-permission And this is prove of ethnic cleansing how? Again: the main theme of your argument is that there is ethnic cleansing going on. This link doesn't prove that either. What proof do you have that the blockage of an openly ongoing insurgency is "ethnic cleansing"? And worth noting: Russia has been moving insurgents inside Red Cross marked convoys and has been caught doing so: https://www.euractiv.com/section/europe-s-east/news/showdown-looms-as-red-cross-shuns-russian-aid-convoy/ There wasn't even any Red Cross members in the convoy. Huh. quote:According to Isyuk, the ICRC yesterday requested information about the types of assistance being delivered from the Russian authorities, such as the volume of items, transportation arrangements, and storage details.
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Jan 21, 2022 18:59
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Fritz the Horse posted:see above quote from Koos Group. This is a bit of a test case. Does Koos Group realise that debunking stuff 1) requires 10 times the effort that’s needed to come up with nonsense and 2) doesn’t really work if the other side isn’t interested to change their mind? Will SA fact checkers also get paid like the real world journalists do, or is this meant to be simply a punishment for being knowledgeable about a subject, to have to seriously and kindly treat every single post when they have their own conversations interests to pursue? Don’t even get me started on actual people itt who intentionally post state propaganda and gather a few dozen replies before going “xD lmao my gbs thread told me ure having a meltdown so i decided to check. you guys are really online with your sick owns lolee”, or simply misinformed posters/useful idiots that need to receive a high school history course from someone to reach the ground floor of the conversation.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:00
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Plastic_Gargoyle posted:So the massing of Russian troops on the border with Ukraine, and the deployment of 6 landing ships from the Black Sea fleet is for...? A publicity stunt to prove that NATO cant corner Russia.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:01
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cinci zoo sniper posted:Does Koos Group realise that debunking stuff 1) requires 10 times the effort that’s needed to come up with nonsense and 2) doesn’t really work if the other side isn’t interested to change their mind? Will SA fact checkers also get paid like the real world journalists do, or is this meant to be simply a punishment for being knowledgeable about a subject, to have to seriously and kindly treat every single post when they have their own conversations interests to pursue? Don’t even get me started on actual people itt who intentionally post state propaganda and gather a few dozen replies before going “xD lmao my gbs thread told me ure having a meltdown so i decided to check. you guys are really online with your sick owns lolee”, or simply misinformed posters/useful idiots that need to receive a high school history course from someone to reach the ground floor of the conversation. I've asked Koos and another mod or two to review the whole last several pages. There's something like 220 posts since I checked the thread last night. Like I said, this is a bit of a test case and I'd rather Koos Group take the reins on how to proceed. Koos is certainly open to feedback and tweaking things, so I'd communicate with them. I'm not just passing the buck here I'll continue to be involved and keep an eye on this thread but I'm new to modding and not entirely sure what Koos' plan for stuff like this is.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:10
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Fair enough, let's hope it works out.
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Jan 21, 2022 19:11
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So like what’s the significance of giving a written response to Putin by Biden? Wouldn’t anything short of what Russia wants mean that it’s just writing a letter saying ‘ try invading Ukraine bozo we’ll sanction you’?
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Jan 21, 2022 19:14
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I mean cinci is right, this is fundamentally a choice about quality of debate. D&D can either be a place where every thread is mired in debunking low-effort disinformation hopefully for the benefit of lurkers, or it can be a place to discuss and learn about what is actually going on. But it can't be both. Oh and everyone hates doing the former. Nobody has been happy with the last few pages apart the very gleeful troll. E: ^^ basically it's a 'final offer, no chance of misinterpretation in the room' Alchenar fucked around with this message at 19:20 on Jan 21, 2022 |
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Jan 21, 2022 19:16
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