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bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
rule of thumb is a dollar of annual recurring revenue is worth 8 dollars of single time revenue, which is why service software businesses are valued at about that multiple to non. that's why you can't get vc for videogames except from credulous fools or for mobile dog poo poo

business saas is basically loved by almost all businesses because they were gonna call their counterparty and demand poo poo anyways, and it provides flexibility on accounting. its why business software has materially improved in the past decade and direct to consumer software frankly has not. why would they go for random people to ask for the same amount of poo poo that vast corps ask (and they do ask for about the same amount) while paying 250x, 2500x less than the vast corp? same deal for small business crap. and the vast corps love it and buy it and nobody gives a poo poo that they don't sell to any randos

and you will never get a death threat in enterprise-land, of course. and you can go and do a diversity and inclusion deal w/o customers being fascists about it

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 14:43 on Jan 21, 2022

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Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

bob dobbs is dead posted:

and you will never get a death threat in enterprise-land, of course.

obviously you're just not trying hard enough if Proctor and Gamble isn't doxxing you and threatening to murder your family

Captain Foo
May 11, 2004

we vibin'
we slidin'
we breathin'
we dyin'

that fps cheat stuff reminded me of the idea of modern correspondence chess, where engine use is allowed

so the whole expertise becomes evaluating the engines against each other and finding flaws to exploit rather than playing chess per se because the machines are all human-unbeatable anyway

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Captain Foo posted:

that fps cheat stuff reminded me of the idea of modern correspondence chess, where engine use is allowed

so the whole expertise becomes evaluating the engines against each other and finding flaws to exploit rather than playing chess per se because the machines are all human-unbeatable anyway

oh! they taught that here as gestalt chess! it was a big part of the research i was doing on command and control systems a few years ago in terms of outcome determinators and future position estimation systems. turns out if you link a pathfinder with certain biases, you can do a future estimation of which positions are exposed and which are shadowed in volumes of estimated fire-control and you can find the blind-spots and sit within them. i was kinda curious cuz at the time, i wanted to build a sort of assisted 3d-gestalt bullet hell game.

one of the big lessons i learned is humans suck at seeing gaps in paths themselves but if you tell them where the gaps are and bias those movements towards them with a sort of reverse-magnetism influencing their movement, they often make near misses that feel very good.

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

There was some articles or papers I can't remember the references to I recall reading that said that technology that augments capacities is generally seen as cool and good when it is seen as restorative--when it brings people with a handicap (whether a physical handicap or a skill handicap like in golf) back to competitiveness--but bad and scary when it is seen as creating inequities, such as boosting people towards super-human capabilities that nobody without the means to acquire the tech can match.

You can see weird edges of this right now when console shooters use aim assist which is all decent when everyone's on console, but when you mix console and computers it's not nearly as appreciated.

So I figure the way to survive inequitable boosts is to challenge dynamics such as they become restorative and the competitiveness is shifted elsewhere. For example, if AI/ML gets good in shooters then maybe you can start having chess-like bots to practice that aren't terrible and just tweaking reflex times (think of how chess players have turned computers into their own facet of the discipline), or maybe you can start wondering whether you focus more on squad/team dynamics where coordination and strategy is key and a human team that talks may have an advantage over bots that don't improvise much, but only as long as maps allow various strategies that don't instantly win everything.

The idea of "preventing cheaters" rather than harnessing the cool & good tech is probably a losing battle in the long run, and embracing the tool assistance to explore new dynamics is probably the way things will eventually have to move towards.

MononcQc fucked around with this message at 17:54 on Jan 21, 2022

Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

MononcQc posted:

--but bad and scary when it is seen as creating inequities, such as boosting people towards super-human capabilities that nobody without the means to acquire the tech can match.


if only the international Olympic committee would listen to me and have one clean and one “anything goes” olympic games

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

MononcQc posted:

There was some articles or papers I can't remember the references to I recall reading that said that technology that augments capacities is generally seen as cool and good when it is seen as restorative--when it brings people with a handicap (whether a physical handicap or a skill handicap like in golf) back to competitiveness--but bad and scary when it is seen as creating inequities, such as boosting people towards super-human capabilities that nobody without the means to acquire the tech can match.

yeah, this is why generally the playingfield should be levelled.

MononcQc posted:

You can see weird edges of this right now when console shooters use aim assist which is all decent when everyone's on console, but when you mix console and computers it's not nearly as appreciated.

i remember this came up a lot in the new halo game, and an enormous number of mouse users were complaining. i was competitive for the first time since before my injury and i was getting yelled at by pc players for using a controller and it ruined the experience for me.


MononcQc posted:

So I figure the way to survive inequitable boosts is to challenge dynamics such as they become restorative and the competitiveness is shifted elsewhere. For example, if AI/ML gets good in shooters then maybe you can start having chess-like bots to practice that aren't terrible and just tweaking reflex times (think of how chess players have turned computers into their own facet of the discipline), or maybe you can start wondering whether you focus more on squad/team dynamics where coordination and strategy is key and a human team that talks may have an advantage over bots that don't improvise much, but only as long as maps allow various strategies that don't instantly win everything.

literally what i liked about acfa. super fast game with aimbots and ballistic shots where dodging, movement and placement become utterly important and the entire game becomes superhumanly fast.

MononcQc posted:

The idea of "preventing cheaters" rather than harnessing the cool & good tech is probably a losing battle in the long run, and embracing the tool assistance to explore new dynamics is probably the way things will eventually have to move towards.

makes me think of the gaben quote about competing with free and winning via convenience or something?

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Expo70 posted:

really not a fan of FPS games due to the fact they saturate the fast-movement genre and tactical genre yet they have an input-stop/timing skillcheck that's annoyingly difficult to meet if you don't play FPS games a lot, or if you have some kind of injury.

i'm recently starting to realize that its only really a matter of time before ML will just be able to add controller feed after evaluating screen contents using only images soon to add corrections or overrides to player inputs and the point/click skillcheck will become meaningless and FPS games will need ballistics and trajectory information adding -- which in turn, is a thing you can probably estimate from screen contents in much the same way players do.

no anti-cheat device or network encryption in theory would be able to stop it, and it would cripple genres which depend on those kinds of skillchecks to the point where they would need to become part of the game's internal meta so players don't actually have direct control of those features anymore (eg, an aim-bot built into the game that has a deliberately calculated finite response speed and effectiveness that hard-limits what player inputs can actually do).

while not necessarily Human-Factors Engineering itself, it does show that skillchecks based on negative HFE-evaluations are probably going to be hit pretty hard in coming years by the democratization of these technologies on a level that anti-cheat can't defeat and I think that's pretty interesting.

games like TF2 might actually go away alltogether because of this stuff and it'll become a genre people remember more than they remember playing -- with anti-cheat unpatched flaws ruining even the most recent Halo game and that kinda blew up as a controversy.

theoretically if enough money is there for it, we could see something like HDCP but for input devices, where only certain trusted drivers would be permitted to provide input in multiplayer, and the drivers would themselves only talk to "authentic" mice/controllers. we've already seen insane poo poo like rootkit-level anti-cheat software (which is why i stopped playing cod warzone and valorant) so i think the willingness to try and develop that kind of stuff at a software level would be there, the real question would be whether gamers would accept being limited to select input devices (which would guaranteed be pricier too).

that said, i have little faith it would be done competently, and would probably be quickly broken.


alternately, with enough capital and if there are enough people who refuse to let go of 'traditional' multiplayer FPS gaming, it could spur a return of LAN/cybercafes, where the selling point is that the cafes get access to special cafe-only servers because they keep the hardware and software locked down and are therefore presumably hacker-free. depending on how tight video card supply is and how high prices get ratcheted up thanks to constrained supply and cryptobullshit, cafes could even potentially be able to lure people in with the promise of being able to game on top-end hardware. granted this is not really an ethical business model at this time given the ongoing pandemic, but when has that meaningfully inhibited business?

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl

Expo70 posted:

is there like, a reason they stopped supporting community servers or peer to peer?

bob dobbs alluded to it but i don't think quite tells the whole tale. nobody's requiring recurring payments for FPS multiplayer (yet); there's "season pass" downloadable content bullshit that they want to sell to you, but generally once you've paid for the game you can play it as much as you like.

but there's still a recurring money element involved. my take is that studios want to push everyone to matchmaking because they want to funnel as many people as possible into the ~*e-sports*~ competitive scene, so as to maximize the possible success of producing big championships. if you're loving around in the community server, you're not feeding the scene.


i also have the cynical view that very few big-budget game developers (or at least, nobody who manages them) actually learn from past games and frequently ignore or re-invent prior innovations, although i'm sure real programmers will point out that features cost development time (which is itself incredible to me that studios throw ever-increasing amounts of money at these big-budget games and still wind up with dogshit that has fewer features than prior games)

DELETE CASCADE
Oct 25, 2017

i haven't washed my penis since i jerked it to a phtotograph of george w. bush in 2003

bob dobbs is dead posted:

you do do that in pluotcrat school, fwiw

design thinking is horseshit and the d.school are a bunch of charlatans

MononcQc
May 29, 2007

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

bob dobbs alluded to it but i don't think quite tells the whole tale. nobody's requiring recurring payments for FPS multiplayer (yet); there's "season pass" downloadable content bullshit that they want to sell to you, but generally once you've paid for the game you can play it as much as you like.

but there's still a recurring money element involved. my take is that studios want to push everyone to matchmaking because they want to funnel as many people as possible into the ~*e-sports*~ competitive scene, so as to maximize the possible success of producing big championships. if you're loving around in the community server, you're not feeding the scene.


i also have the cynical view that very few big-budget game developers (or at least, nobody who manages them) actually learn from past games and frequently ignore or re-invent prior innovations, although i'm sure real programmers will point out that features cost development time (which is itself incredible to me that studios throw ever-increasing amounts of money at these big-budget games and still wind up with dogshit that has fewer features than prior games)

you probably can't easily sell a new game if the old one is still supported and people keep playing it on custom servers. I'd not be surprised if there was a sort of planned obsolescence to the scheme.

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009

MononcQc posted:

you probably can't easily sell a new game if the old one is still supported and people keep playing it on custom servers. I'd not be surprised if there was a sort of planned obsolescence to the scheme.

you'd think that but servers are still up for battlefield 3 over a decade later (and I'm sure EA would use any method to juice numbers for the newest battlefield), I think it's just an industry trend with no real basis behind it. plus you can get most of the same effect by just taking down the server browser servers

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

last time i checked (which admittedly was maybe 3-4 years ago) there was still like one single server up for battlefield 2, with like 10 people just playing wake island 2007 over and over again until the sun burns out

Fishbus
Aug 30, 2006


"Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

Death, taxes and BF1942 demo wake island servers

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

could also be a human factor of some game exec who doesn't like the idea of a community that isn't wholly under their thumb

Truman Peyote
Oct 11, 2006



Fishbus posted:

Death, taxes and BF1942 demo wake island servers

that demo was fuckin sick though

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost

DELETE CASCADE posted:

design thinking is horseshit and the d.school are a bunch of charlatans

sure

theres still a separate hci dealio that tries to do experimentation and mostly fails

Poopernickel
Oct 28, 2005

electricity bad
Fun Shoe

Kernel Sanders posted:

i actually did user research and made a microwave with one big button that added 30seconds at max power and was talked sternly to for not taking the assignment seriously.

holy gently caress boys, Kernel Sanders has been watching how I use the microwave

literally 90+% of the time I just mash +30 seconds a few times, then open the door whenever I think my food is hot enough.

Shame Boy
Mar 2, 2010

yeah that's what everyone does

either that or like number 1 thru 6 is usually mapped to just instant-start at high with 1-6 minutes time

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009

i use every specific function on the microwave, but a 30-sec button would be sufficient if it didn't beep every time you press it

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.
Who decided my oven should have capacitive buttons instead of tactile buttons? They're wrong. But I'm too cheap to replace it.

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple on pizzadog derangement syndrome
a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

rotor posted:

a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run

My grandparents had one like that. It was great.

Jenny Agutter
Mar 18, 2009

my landlord replaced my oven with a newer one, in the process going from a temperature knob to up/down buttons that move the temperature (default 350) in 5 degree increments and its one of the worst things a person has ever done to me

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Jenny Agutter posted:

my landlord replaced my oven with a newer one, in the process going from a temperature knob to up/down buttons that move the temperature (default 350) in 5 degree increments and its one of the worst things a person has ever done to me

They really want you to leave, huh. Rent control?

Progressive JPEG
Feb 19, 2003

I have a panasonic where you tell it how many watts to use and I normally set it to 400-600 territory, seems to cook more evenly

rotor
Jun 11, 2001

classic case of pineapple on pizzadog derangement syndrome

Progressive JPEG posted:

I have a panasonic where you tell it how many watts to use and I normally set it to 400-600 territory, seems to cook more evenly

if you're one of the 5% of users that use power levels, a second control will be allowed which is a knob that controls the power output ranging from 0 to max

Phobeste
Apr 9, 2006

never, like, count out Touchdown Tom, man

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

bob dobbs alluded to it but i don't think quite tells the whole tale. nobody's requiring recurring payments for FPS multiplayer (yet); there's "season pass" downloadable content bullshit that they want to sell to you, but generally once you've paid for the game you can play it as much as you like.

but there's still a recurring money element involved. my take is that studios want to push everyone to matchmaking because they want to funnel as many people as possible into the ~*e-sports*~ competitive scene, so as to maximize the possible success of producing big championships. if you're loving around in the community server, you're not feeding the scene.


i also have the cynical view that very few big-budget game developers (or at least, nobody who manages them) actually learn from past games and frequently ignore or re-invent prior innovations, although i'm sure real programmers will point out that features cost development time (which is itself incredible to me that studios throw ever-increasing amounts of money at these big-budget games and still wind up with dogshit that has fewer features than prior games)

the reason is to remove friction and make people play more. the business model of a modern big budget fps is microtransaction whalefishing supplemented with a base level of infrequent purchases by normals (season passes, expansions, etc). all that relies on people continuing to play. more people continue to play if you remove the friction of
- having to find a server where you vibe both the first time and then every time you go to start a game
- sometimes wanting to play a game but then that server you like is full or empty
- sometimes having a server you like where you stop playing for a bit and everybody gets better and you don't and now you're doing terribly and not having fun

having centralized servers and matchmaking removes all of this friction and keeps people playing and buying. it also gives the ability to do ranking so you see number go up (and it's tuned to always go up until you're super bought in).

Farmer Crack-Ass
Jan 2, 2001

this is me posting irl
i guess on the whole average it reduces friction. idk it feels like it can seemingly take forever to get from initial load to actual gameplay these days. the thing about microtransaction whalefishing makes a lot of sense to me though.

bob dobbs is dead
Oct 8, 2017

I love peeps
Nap Ghost
i mean, if private servers are allowed, players will invest serious amount of time and energy up to and including loving with binaries to rip out microtxn poo poo, too. peeps hate that (for great reasons)

also if it's officially supported private servers you have to deal w support requests from some of the jankiest computer janitors that exist. who also love the death threats and misogyny

bob dobbs is dead fucked around with this message at 02:25 on Jan 22, 2022

Shaggar
Apr 26, 2006
matchmaking also helps keep players playing the latest game modes even if they suck. this allows for better synergy with microtransactions. the switch from classes to operators in bf2042 is almost certainly a play for future gear being microtransactions and if they start shoving out gear that is broken in the current game mode, they further encourage purchases. its all about controlling what the players are doing on your platform so you can direct them to microtransactions.

bob dobbs is dead posted:

i mean, if private servers are allowed, players will invest serious amount of time and energy up to and including loving with binaries to rip out microtxn poo poo, too. peeps hate that (for great reasons)

also if it's officially supported private servers you have to deal w support requests from some of the jankiest computer janitors that exist. who also love the death threats and misogyny


in the case of previous battlefield games they solved this by hosting the private servers themselves which was an additional revenue stream and then making it impossible (and in some cases bannable) to report players for harassment/cheating/etc...

Achmed Jones
Oct 16, 2004



Truman Peyote posted:

do trackballs work for shooters? i dont wanna get carpal tunnel but i do wanna get headshots in wolfenstein

i wouldn't think so, but i've never tried - i don't play computer games really these days

dioxazine
Oct 14, 2004

Truman Peyote posted:

do trackballs work for shooters? i dont wanna get carpal tunnel but i do wanna get headshots in wolfenstein

i use the logitech mx vertical for everything, but i don't really play FPS games

arm pain is extremely rare for me after switching over

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

theoretically if enough money is there for it, we could see something like HDCP but for input devices, where only certain trusted drivers would be permitted to provide input in multiplayer, and the drivers would themselves only talk to "authentic" mice/controllers. we've already seen insane poo poo like rootkit-level anti-cheat software (which is why i stopped playing cod warzone and valorant) so i think the willingness to try and develop that kind of stuff at a software level would be there, the real question would be whether gamers would accept being limited to select input devices (which would guaranteed be pricier too).

that said, i have little faith it would be done competently, and would probably be quickly broken.


alternately, with enough capital and if there are enough people who refuse to let go of 'traditional' multiplayer FPS gaming, it could spur a return of LAN/cybercafes, where the selling point is that the cafes get access to special cafe-only servers because they keep the hardware and software locked down and are therefore presumably hacker-free. depending on how tight video card supply is and how high prices get ratcheted up thanks to constrained supply and cryptobullshit, cafes could even potentially be able to lure people in with the promise of being able to game on top-end hardware. granted this is not really an ethical business model at this time given the ongoing pandemic, but when has that meaningfully inhibited business?

in a way it does make some sort of make sense in certain settings for HDCP for HID to exist, given malicious HID devices have been a thing for years with keystroke injection from duckies Pi Picos (pentesters will know more about this stuff, feel free to chime in if you are present) and stuff like that but it would be a huge shame if it were enforced on some level.

personally i think the fix is just enforcing deliberate limits on the speeds of certain things and turning those into game-able mechanics, like i've said (eg, an aim-bot, automatic ballistic fire control and/or semi-assisted movement being a direct part of the game itself which adds too many variables for a regular aimbot to solve trivially)


Shaggar posted:

matchmaking also helps keep players playing the latest game modes even if they suck. this allows for better synergy with microtransactions. the switch from classes to operators in bf2042 is almost certainly a play for future gear being microtransactions and if they start shoving out gear that is broken in the current game mode, they further encourage purchases. its all about controlling what the players are doing on your platform so you can direct them to microtransactions.

in the case of previous battlefield games they solved this by hosting the private servers themselves which was an additional revenue stream and then making it impossible (and in some cases bannable) to report players for harassment/cheating/etc...

i remember when enforced matchmaking became a thing becoming popular in games and that was basically when i sort of stepped away and realised "yeah, i'm honestly done with this, i'm not making friends anymore and i can't avoid chuds easily anymore"

enforced lobby systems killed online gaming for me. i think the best time i've ever had was my little brother was *really* into halo 2 and at one point we'd saved up enough and we drilled and threaded ethernet thru the bedroom wall while mom was at work on the sly. i remember lovely beer and cheap pizza would flow and we'd each have three friends over, and make and mix up and match different teams and match types and i think that started from my college years and went on until i moved out so every saturday was halo night for like six years. i was a very happy big sister, and the first boy i crushed on properly was one of the bunch and we got along like a house on fire as a team because we both knew a bit of milcom fish/chips/fofo stuff -- him attending cadets, and my old man thinking the world was going to come to an end in 2010 and teaching us lots of absurd military poo poo growing up so we could communicate very very fluently and taught our team and eventually the entire group how to do short nato milcom

i really struggled with the controls of these kinds of games because of an injury in my right hand, but the other players sorta compensated my weaknesses and i went for area of effect or homing weapons and eventually i realized if i sniped, i could swap the sticks and triggers in the config and do it like that and do the right trigger with my foot and use my fingers for the front of the controller.

i had this habit of keeping diaries pretty religiously and in retrospect, i learned a huge amount from both this and a game i used to play with my brother that's cringy in retrospect which i called 'videogame science' where i'd record his play and sync up a mic to the tv's vhs recording and ask him questions, time different intervals and it amounted to a combination of him speedrunning and sharing his decision process and me asking targetted questions about changes in his decisions while keeping notes on paper. weird kid, i know but this came in handy for studying why our team succeeded or failed in halo later.

outside of maybe goldeneye which half of the players present all played together years ago, i've never had a similar experience with multiplayer and its one i've vicariously studied the psychology of -- in terms of its design, not having match-making means you have to actually be around people for an extended period of time so you develop a rapport and in turn you develop and resolve grudges and goals and the entire design of halo's multiplayer for a long time was built around that. i would honestly say in some very minute ways, it has more in common with mario kart than it does call of duty outside of the basic mechanics.

one of the big lessons was that if players had habits which clustered them into groupings rather than single lobby systems, ELO rating (a system for calculating relative skill in zero-sum games commonly used, Arpad Elo, often used in chess as of the 1960s and the methodology published in 1978) based estimations actually stop working properly because of the sociological component of (n=n+2) players (which is why ELO works well for say tetris, and not for say, halo) and instead you have to use a different system which takes into account the unconfidence of the system ("TrueSkill") as a variable.

Graepel and Herbrich in 2006 actually tested this with Halo 2 to tune their system and one of the things they learned was the range of error depended on the players *not having* certain clustering behaviors and that the accuracy/confidence of the algorithm's expected propagation improved as the number of players increased -- but this also meant that if there was a sudden lapse or change in the number of available players, the error rate could spike up from 29-94% to 37.17%

this in turn would have cascading effects on player retention -- and most lobby systems are even worse than TrueSkill because even TrueSkill2 doesn't account for the ripples and feedback loops (the algorithm's design does not account for its own use, and it is not self-tuning -- often being purely basyesian). making matters worse, its accuracy is limited to just 52% and its successor, 68%. at these levels, you may as well be guessing.

when you combine this with a game design which emphasizes highly generalized gameplay instead of specialization, you don't give players niches to fill. niches generally mean that even if the skills of players aren't enormous, they can find a purpose and change that purpose on the fly as the landscape of the match changes and that is an entire second skill of its own that often more technically gifted players often don't pick up on -- eg, they'll know the current composition of assets isn't "right" but they'll be too mentally fixated and engaged to switch out if they are succeeding so they become a liablility which is a humbling experience for them. in generalization, nobody can fill a niche and the only way for players to differentiate themselves is to get more or the most kills and thus the competitive nature of the game is magnified enormously which obviously creates tons of social friction.

it boils down to wanting to keep a good gradient between adaptability and specialization, where any specialist can respond to many situations but also that forward knowledge, awareness and communication directly rewards the entire team.

bizzarely, stuff like this is how games like tf2 just flat out refuse to die, and its the secret sauce behind their success -- the same way that games like tarkov also do the same with sensorifics and observation in teams with higher cohesion because different players innately notice different things and if they communicate and fluently coordinate, everybody benefits. couple this with high stakes play where conventional fps logic of oldstyle play and groups are funelled into this style of play almost exclusively if they want to succeed where "larping as military" or developing situation language actually has serious tangible benefits

given that feelings of connection and meaning are the driving force of sales right now due to covid and a lot of the pressures on younger players, i'm still 100% convinced that tarkov-likes are going to explode any time now as a genre in much the same way pubg did to become the battle royale genre with games like fortnite.



Phobeste posted:

the reason is to remove friction and make people play more. the business model of a modern big budget fps is microtransaction whalefishing supplemented with a base level of infrequent purchases by normals (season passes, expansions, etc). all that relies on people continuing to play. more people continue to play if you remove the friction of
- having to find a server where you vibe both the first time and then every time you go to start a game
- sometimes wanting to play a game but then that server you like is full or empty
- sometimes having a server you like where you stop playing for a bit and everybody gets better and you don't and now you're doing terribly and not having fun

having centralized servers and matchmaking removes all of this friction and keeps people playing and buying. it also gives the ability to do ranking so you see number go up (and it's tuned to always go up until you're super bought in).

the primary motivation to buy stuff is to establish first impressions with new players, or to buy advantage to negate a skill-gap though which generally only happens if you mix with unknowns a lot. in my experience the best mixes i've seen across a bunch of different games comes when you have match-making, but you also allow conventional lobbies so you have aptitude mixing then you have private experiences. the downside of course becomes when a playerbase's growth cycle saturates and completes and lobbies dominate which is what we're seeing in the freefall of vrchat's crashing social experience. in vrchat as an example, nobody "worth talking to" goes to public worlds anymore because there's no way to filter out super obnoxious users so the only way to get into private circles is knowing who you know via other mediums which means the entire discovery path of players is limited and so getting "started" is really difficult.

its a very interesting phenomenon and i remember that something similar happened with myspace, coupled with the fact that facebook immediately jumped on phone support when myspace's phone support really sucked and platform dominance for accessing vs using (two different control paths) were radically being redefined at the time (which explains why fb/meta is going all in on vr because the same shift that established them in the first place could easily kill them as it did their predecessors).


rotor posted:

a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run

only if all you cook is microwave dinners. if you need to thaw stuff out to cook, you're now boned.

Farmer Crack-rear end posted:

theoretically if enough money is there for it, we could see something like HDCP but for input devices, where only certain trusted drivers would be permitted to provide input in multiplayer, and the drivers would themselves only talk to "authentic" mice/controllers. we've already seen insane poo poo like rootkit-level anti-cheat software (which is why i stopped playing cod warzone and valorant) so i think the willingness to try and develop that kind of stuff at a software level would be there, the real question would be whether gamers would accept being limited to select input devices (which would guaranteed be pricier too).

that said, i have little faith it would be done competently, and would probably be quickly broken.


alternately, with enough capital and if there are enough people who refuse to let go of 'traditional' multiplayer FPS gaming, it could spur a return of LAN/cybercafes, where the selling point is that the cafes get access to special cafe-only servers because they keep the hardware and software locked down and are therefore presumably hacker-free. depending on how tight video card supply is and how high prices get ratcheted up thanks to constrained supply and cryptobullshit, cafes could even potentially be able to lure people in with the promise of being able to game on top-end hardware. granted this is not really an ethical business model at this time given the ongoing pandemic, but when has that meaningfully inhibited business?


Shame Boy posted:

last time i checked (which admittedly was maybe 3-4 years ago) there was still like one single server up for battlefield 2, with like 10 people just playing wake island 2007 over and over again until the sun burns out

so its the noble 14 all over again. ACFA has a similar situation, where about 10/20 people refuse to stop playing the game. i'm admittedly one of them, and i have to say its a phenomenon you run into when you have a game design which equalizes and hits upon a point where it still has "problems" which are unresolved, so the meta is still ongoing and changing as players discover new tricks to solve either with technical ability or via the combination of assets to devise new strategies and its honestly fascinating. i wish i'd kept better diaries so i could make a proper taxonomy of all the major strategies instead of the loose tree i've got now.

i think my favourite was when players realized a particular missile that has high speed, high damage and nearly zero tracking before a minimum arming distance had a super low firing latency, so they would immediately leap over an opponent and fire down at point blank range (its a weapon designed to be used like a guided cannon) and by carrying two of them and the shoulder variant together, they could dump it all and completely nullify the game's shield/secondary mobility stat and do cleanup with a high dps weapon. after that, players explored aoe weapons a lot more and found some very psychologiocal strats where the silouette of those launchers on a robot's back changed how you moved around it to prevent being caught in the trap, and this their front weapons would be changed to be a type which excelled at the range players would unconsciously try to keep to, to avoid being attacked which made the cleanup strat harder but gave them a more generalise informational approach.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lcHvlEutap0&t=12s

the big lesson i learned there was if the silouette or shape of your loadout is readable by others, that factors into player strategy especially in games with really really long time-to-kills and complex 3d movement where you circle eachother and try to trick the other into making a mistake you can capitalize on and punish the other player for making. that in and of itself, i think is a good piece of human factors -- keeping those forms readable by people which isn't something most games really tend to do now.

like in acfa, even the specific limbs you choose can look extremely different in silhouette and quickly you can squint and instantly figure out what movement and defence the other player has optimized for around 7 clicks out. that's VERY strong game design imo. whats hilarious is there's a system in the game called "stabilizers" where you whack on chunks which can alter your silouette and rebalance the biasing of your acceleration by putting mass on one side to offset the asymmetry of your build. its a very fun way to interfere with the readability of silhouettes which in turn becomes part of the meta -- kinda like how animals like the portia spider deliberately groom themselves to look like detritus and garbage so they're harder to spot in the wild in some situations and don't in others because the movement advantages are more important depending on the specific time of year or where they happen to live. its bonkers.

acfa's followup botched it so hard in the design that they had to implement a tool for scanning an opponent and seeing the individual parts numbers. sure it was nice to *see* the stats and consider if you wanted to engage them or not but man, it really broke the loop rather than re-enforced it...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxvFBn7nO3I&t=135s

edit: sorry got a bit excited, lots of run on sentences/ranty bits

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Jan 22, 2022

distortion park
Apr 25, 2011


rotor posted:

a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run

it should also have the wattage printed on the front. microwaves never tell you how powerful they are anymore

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

distortion park posted:

it should also have the wattage printed on the front. microwaves never tell you how powerful they are anymore

how modest of them. maybe all that comparing made them sad.

isn't that usually on the serial number, the manual, or the inside of the door? in some places its law that it has to be on the inside of the door in some way so econ of scale means it ends up on all of their units sold


-----

weird question: do tools exist which can make a dynamic length font monospaced? I recently discovered a font called Rubik and it solves *most* of the issues my dyslexia presents... Buut its not monospaced.

https://i.imgur.com/eJ0ViPn.png

kicks my rear end that you have to edit a drat text-file to change the colors of the themes in this piece of crap. its so backwards.

how there isn't just a library of simple tools that turn those text-files into searchable procedural config screens with all of the appropriate data type representations is such a huge headache.

hell i'm sad that isn't a thing that can be generated from manpages to drive a procedural terminal psudo-wysiwyg ui listing attributes you can just pile onto a command argument that will always be valid. i know exactly what the hell i want to do but reading the characters to make commands makes my brain ache for more than 20 minutes. its so hard to just not have the goddamn code dance on the page -- there's no character representing a space or a line return that's easily visible and that means i can't judge the lengths of gaps and things like that i hate it so much

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 10:46 on Jan 22, 2022

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTzn37Usa-U


ooooo

leper khan
Dec 28, 2010
Honest to god thinks Half Life 2 is a bad game. But at least he likes Monster Hunter.

Expo70 posted:

how modest of them. maybe all that comparing made them sad.

isn't that usually on the serial number, the manual, or the inside of the door? in some places its law that it has to be on the inside of the door in some way so econ of scale means it ends up on all of their units sold


-----

weird question: do tools exist which can make a dynamic length font monospaced? I recently discovered a font called Rubik and it solves *most* of the issues my dyslexia presents... Buut its not monospaced.

https://i.imgur.com/eJ0ViPn.png

kicks my rear end that you have to edit a drat text-file to change the colors of the themes in this piece of crap. its so backwards.

how there isn't just a library of simple tools that turn those text-files into searchable procedural config screens with all of the appropriate data type representations is such a huge headache.

hell i'm sad that isn't a thing that can be generated from manpages to drive a procedural terminal psudo-wysiwyg ui listing attributes you can just pile onto a command argument that will always be valid. i know exactly what the hell i want to do but reading the characters to make commands makes my brain ache for more than 20 minutes. its so hard to just not have the goddamn code dance on the page -- there's no character representing a space or a line return that's easily visible and that means i can't judge the lengths of gaps and things like that i hate it so much

https://dtinth.github.io/comic-mono-font/

I'm not dyslexic, but I've heard things about that typeface.

If you don't mind the :catdrugs: look, you can make whitespace different colors in emacs

Expo70
Nov 15, 2021

Can't talk now, doing
Hot Girl Stuff

leper khan posted:

https://dtinth.github.io/comic-mono-font/

I'm not dyslexic, but I've heard things about that typeface.

If you don't mind the :catdrugs: look, you can make whitespace different colors in emacs

this is like telling me that i should switch from eating popcorn at movies to deep fried milk teeth because i have a corn allergy and that i shouldn't worry about the bits of tooth fairy which are holdovers from the harvesting process

my ego is too big to let comic sans exist on my computer in any way more than is necessary

i'm aware that's actually extremely childish of me (and i should be 100% results driven) but its a holdover from my training and i have the exact same issue with all of the dyslexia fonts?

what i hate most about them is i don't have typical dyslexia which is to do with resolving type on the page, what i do have is audiatory processing dependence caused by semantic pragmatic reasoning disorder

thats just a fancy way of saying "i learned language by copying snippets" like "do you want a biscuit" to mean "i would like a biscuit" as if my child brain were treating every noise coming out of every other person like a human stackoverflow.com user if such a thing could exist which also makes non-vocalization (ie reading without imagining the sounds) pretty much impossible for me which unfortunately hard-limits my reading speed but did teach me a ton about how humans process language

eg:
so if i run into words i can't sound out like code, i fall flat on my face because i can't construct the code back into useful sentences that i can then parse -- so as a result i can't depend on wordshape rather than character shape to solve my problems.

i think trying to come into it with purely symbolic reasoning might work if i use colors and i really try learning the rules so i can pick up the new languages. the shapes i truly struggle the most with are the bracket-types from one another (){}[]<>, semi-colons and colons look identical to me, and differentiating pipes, L and I from one another is close to impossible for me which I know are all really important.

at this point i'm seriously debating really studying how and why this happens and making my own font with rubik as a basis since a lot of its upper and lower case characters are extremely easy for my eyes to differentiate and phonecize.

i also really like the weighting of rubik because it is very middle-dense and encapsulated with its line height weights so all the complexity is in the middle vertically of the word which means my eyes don't "fall off the stack" when scanning which i really really like.

i'm wondering if during this process, documenting it and maybe coming up with a means for other people to engineer custom font combinations based on some simple questions might actually be a tool that people find useful rather than a "well i've got mine, gently caress everybody else" deal. it seems like something that would really be well worth studying in the long term since i think often there are things i like in the symbols of some fonts, and the alphas of another so i wonder if feeding a ton of fonts to some code and saying "ok, now extract the specific features requested from the training sets which positively want these attributes to generate new type" would be useful - like an infinite type generator.

i don't know enough about ML/NN/GANs to build it but the idea is interesting to think about, certainly.

sorry, going off on a tangent.

uhhhhh

comic sans is very no for me please thankyou

Expo70 fucked around with this message at 15:26 on Jan 22, 2022

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Kernel Sanders
Sep 15, 2020

rotor posted:

a microwave should have one control: a knob for setting how long you want it to run

at least make it non-linear so that the first 50% covers 60 seconds, next 25% 3 minutes, last 25% 7 minutes

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