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cheetah7071 posted:If it helps, with the endwalker rotation you're supposed to use geirskogul before high jump every time (unless downtime or deaths mess up your eyes). This is a reverse from shadowbringers, where you needed the flexibility to choose whether you use geirskogul before or after mirage dive. With the new rigidity of your buffs, you want to delay every single life of the dragon, so it works out fine to use geirskogul first I should probably do a bit of practicing with rotations as opposed to the tactic I have been using for the past half year of "just go in and hit the buttons that seem right" lol
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Jan 23, 2022 00:53
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Chillgamesh posted:Oh yeah, also, thanks to that post earlier upthread I just solo'd A12S with a ilvl560 Gunbreaker, even getting hit by a few mechanics because I didn't know the fight. It's extremely easy and now I have this bad rear end sword Thanks for mentioning this. 
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Jan 23, 2022 01:02
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Heavensward Time! Come enjoy the finale of some hot garbage job questing
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Jan 23, 2022 01:06
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cheetah7071 posted:If it helps, with the endwalker rotation you're supposed to use geirskogul before high jump every time (unless downtime or deaths mess up your eyes). This is a reverse from shadowbringers, where you needed the flexibility to choose whether you use geirskogul before or after mirage dive. With the new rigidity of your buffs, you want to delay every single life of the dragon, so it works out fine to use geirskogul first I am guessing the double-weaved dragon sight there doesn't select the partner...
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Jan 23, 2022 01:21
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theironjef posted:Most interesting thing here is definitely that there used to be a plan or at least a thought that more classes than Arcanist were going to have two paths to choose from at 30. I wonder what that would have looked like. I recently saw that to get jobs, you originally had to be 30 in the “primary” class, and 15 in a second one (So PLD needed to be a 30 GLD, 15 CNJ). I could see that they might have had an idea for extending that to “advanced” jobs, like PLD and DRK combined to become Sword Saint from FFT.
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Jan 23, 2022 01:23
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OddObserver posted:I am guessing the double-weaved dragon sight there doesn't select the partner... It does. It's not that bad If you can't double weave dragon sight it's fine, just swap it with battle litany. It won't apply on chaos surge but it will apply in your first wyrmwind so it's only a tiny tiny loss.
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Jan 23, 2022 01:25
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theironjef posted:Most interesting thing here is definitely that there used to be a plan or at least a thought that more classes than Arcanist were going to have two paths to choose from at 30. I wonder what that would have looked like. very very bad ftr. as someone who was playing in 2.1 even, yes that was explicitly the plan. the reason they abandoned it is scob/fcob were balancing nightmares since smn was weak both tiers (and actually atrocious in fcob specifically), but making it better would also have buffed sch. at this point sch was actually super super good and the only reason parties werent double sch was because of the minor annoyance of shields not overlapping. every action theyve taken since then has been to try and split smn/sch completely and i hope next expac they finally announce "sch is no longer based of arcanist, we figured something else out" and it can be put to bed lol.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:08
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Why would you want them to split SMN/SCH at this point? It's nothing but a benefit to the player that you level both at once.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:12
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because the current solution is clunky and inelegant (you have a button called ruin on arcanist but then when you put on the scholar jobstone, it goes away because scholars ruin is different because it has to be so that summoner can be tweaked without affecting scholar) and as long as the connection exists the door is open for more problems like the one i explicitly mentioned. the benefit players get out of the arrangement should not be an impetus to preserve a bad system thats caused over half a decade of headache. thats insane, actually.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:18
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Scholar and Summoner sharing experience is good because it means i don't have to play scholar
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Jan 23, 2022 03:21
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Regy Rusty posted:Scholar and Summoner sharing experience is good because it means i don't have to play scholar 
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Jan 23, 2022 03:23
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:because the current solution is clunky and inelegant (you have a button called ruin on arcanist but then when you put on the scholar jobstone, it goes away because scholars ruin is different because it has to be so that summoner can be tweaked without affecting scholar) and as long as the connection exists the door is open for more problems like the one i explicitly mentioned. the benefit players get out of the arrangement should not be an impetus to preserve a bad system thats caused over half a decade of headache. thats insane, actually. This.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:24
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Is there any actual evidence there's problems with SMN/SCH besides "you need to redo you bars when becoming SCH"? and "Physik sucks for SMN for no clear reason"? They've stapled added so much to SCH/SMN over time and it feels like it hasn't shown any issues yet. I would have imagined they would have turned it into it's own job that starts at 30 like DRK/AST/MCH if they really needed to.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:27
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The new player experience with them both is really clunky. If you want to play a healer and scholar appeals to you you spend the first 30 levels as a DPS. Summoner's abilities completely rework in a way other classes' dont when they get upgraded from Arcanist. Arcanist is this weird mishmash class while, say, Marauder, is just a Warrior with literally no differences in mechanics or any skills lost when it becomes a Warrior. There's no other class in the game that works like them so a new player might also be confused why Scholar keeps leveling when they level their Summoner. Of course, decoupling them would retroactively make things harder for new players or people who haven't leveled Arcanist before.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:33
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Oxyclean posted:Is there any actual evidence there's problems with SMN/SCH besides "you need to redo you bars when becoming SCH"? and "Physik sucks for SMN for no clear reason"? youve got it backwards. they have spent every single expansion building away from the issue, by constantly splitting these two jobs with the same base class apart as much as they could in the system. the problem was never "oh arcanist has too many things tied to it or whatever" the problem was "we cant buff aetherflow to fix the fact that smn goes oom halfway through every fight in this tier because sch, which has the same button would become too good at the exact same time." and theyve wanted to split it the entire time! they said as much but said the underlying issues involved made this a very onerous task. kind of like the task you take over many years and will often lose progress on as jobs have to be worked on for other reasons like new caps etc. theyre basically 95% complete atm (the only shared skill now is resurrection, but hey, this problem could rear itself up if they go "hey for 7.0 lets give the healer rezzes a fun trait" cuz oops, smn also has that same rez). as someone who was playing when the smn/sch issue was at its most problematic, it would literally only be a good thing to finally close that door for good. the fact that people would now have to play a job they dont like to reap its benefits, like with every other job in the game and they shouldnt have to, is not a good counterargument.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:37
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Endorph posted:The new player experience with them both is really clunky. If you want to play a healer and scholar appeals to you you spend the first 30 levels as a DPS. Summoner's abilities completely rework in a way other classes' dont when they get upgraded from Arcanist. Arcanist is this weird mishmash class while, say, Marauder, is just a Warrior with literally no differences in mechanics or any skills lost when it becomes a Warrior. There's no other class in the game that works like them so a new player might also be confused why Scholar keeps leveling when they level their Summoner. I suppose this is a good point - if you want to start as a healer, you get one option (CNJ) - in some ways it might benefit new players to at least have a choice between two healers from the start.
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Jan 23, 2022 03:39
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theironjef posted:Most interesting thing here is definitely that there used to be a plan or at least a thought that more classes than Arcanist were going to have two paths to choose from at 30. I wonder what that would have looked like. Regalingualius posted:I recently saw that to get jobs, you originally had to be 30 in the “primary” class, and 15 in a second one (So PLD needed to be a 30 GLD, 15 CNJ). http://game.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/interview/20140623_654559.html posted:Last year when Scholar was introduced at E3, it was mentioned that it would branch off from the same class as Summoner, and this would be a mechanic that would be used more, but it has yet to happen for any other class. You haven’t announced anything yet, but are there any other plans to introduce anything like this? For example, another swordsman besides Paladin?
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Jan 23, 2022 03:45
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They were probably thinking of the branching classes like WoW's talent system but WoW was built from the ground up for that. And realistically, what's the benefit outside of making leveling all jobs easier?
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Jan 23, 2022 03:56
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Endorph posted:They were probably thinking of the branching classes like WoW's talent system but WoW was built from the ground up for that. And realistically, what's the benefit outside of making leveling all jobs easier? While I very much enjoyed being able to access the healer role quest w/o actually being able to play healer, there is also the problem that scholar in particular I have no clue on how to play, since I hardly saw it built up incrementally.
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Jan 23, 2022 04:02
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i think they were also not expecting people to be as gung-ho as people in this game often are about leveling everything up pretty consistently. so in that instance it prob makes sense to make sure people arent stuck with one role forevermore. in practice though people are fine with leveling everything up no matter how many jobs there are lol, so the game doesnt need those extra freebie roles handed out to people.
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Jan 23, 2022 04:04
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They could also just slightly increase the armory bonus in compensation. A small boost applied to every job in the game is about equal to one pair of jobs sharing levels. And like, fursonally, i do think people should have to play a healer at some point to do the healer role quests.
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Jan 23, 2022 04:06
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Fursonally, I agree
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Jan 23, 2022 04:12
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Leveling is already real easy so it's not like it'd be some massive middle finger if they do split them up and you no longer get a free dps or free healer when you level one or the other.
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Jan 23, 2022 04:43
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owned
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Jan 23, 2022 04:58
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Ibram Gaunt posted:Leveling is already real easy so it's not like it'd be some massive middle finger if they do split them up and you no longer get a free dps or free healer when you level one or the other.  I remember getting everything up to 50 feeling real grueling. I think it might feel a bit...lame? to anyone who missed leveling SMN/SCH to a good point before they got decoupled. Also, it sounds like something is going to happen with MSQR at some point - I wouldn't be surprised if it was something like it getting Trust-ified and the roulette gets removed, which is not really a bad thing for the sake of NPE, but would mean one less source of easy daily EXP.
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Jan 23, 2022 05:02
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FuturePastNow posted:owned what server are you on, and/or are the cactpot numbers the same across servers
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Jan 23, 2022 05:03
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lets never change anything then because someone who joins 4 years later and wont even have context to understand these decisions will feel left out. 👍
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Jan 23, 2022 05:09
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CharlieFoxtrot posted:what server are you on, and/or are the cactpot numbers the same across servers Faerie. I think they are different on every server? Or at least every DC.
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Jan 23, 2022 05:14
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:lets never change anything then because someone who joins 4 years later and wont even have context to understand these decisions will feel left out. 👍 By all means, decouple SCH and SMN if it does something worthwhile, but making leveling a bit easier even it might already be easy isn't really a bad thing. Particularly as the game continues to add jobs. SMN/SCH basically letting some players get quick access to a second role is maybe something that the game should work towards more, not less? Albeit, it can be done better so that you don't have players without experience. e: If I want to be disingenuous too; "The devs should fix/remove this weird quirky thing that isn't causing any visible problems because it bugs me in particular!"
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Jan 23, 2022 05:21
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Kagaya Homoraisan posted:youve got it backwards. they have spent every single expansion building away from the issue, by constantly splitting these two jobs with the same base class apart as much as they could in the system. the problem was never "oh arcanist has too many things tied to it or whatever" the problem was "we cant buff aetherflow to fix the fact that smn goes oom halfway through every fight in this tier because sch, which has the same button would become too good at the exact same time." none of this is actually a real problem that exists in the game right now because they don't have to balance anything around abilities that each class gets as an Arcanist. If they added a trait for res they would just tie it to Scholar, since traits aren't shared between the classes.
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Jan 23, 2022 05:31
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FuturePastNow posted:Faerie. I think they are different on every server? Or at least every DC.
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Jan 23, 2022 05:31
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If SCH/SMN were split and then someone joined after that and learned that they used to share a base class and share levels I imagine the reaction would be "huh weird" or "that's neat" most of the time, with the occasional joking "where's my free job YoshiP???" Either way if they ever did split them I'd really like there to be more differentiation between SCH and SMN weapons. They'd obviously both have to still be books but it'd be cool if they had different quirks or one of them came with an off-hand or something. I mean I'd like that anyway but if they were ever fully separate it'd be even more reason.
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Jan 23, 2022 06:01
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 crawled over the finish line but finished the tier hooray
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Jan 23, 2022 06:14
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Dryzen posted:
that's awesome dude my group just cleared tonight too 
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Jan 23, 2022 06:20
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Trying to get Album cover art between pulls in my static 
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Jan 23, 2022 07:00
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Oxyclean posted:It's more in response to the idea we shouldn't do anything to compensate removing a player-beneficial perk of the way things currently are. Having people get free jobs to max that they have no idea how to play is IMO not something they should be working towards doing more of. And I think they agree considering they never ever have done anything like the SMN/SCH split ever again.
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Jan 23, 2022 07:07
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Time to go back to Eureka. I'm almost out of NPCs with triad cards. I think I forgot to equip the body piece last time I was there because it was going much faster this time.
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Jan 23, 2022 07:08
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They should decouple SCH and SMN because I, fursonally, consider it a penalty that they both level up at once since I never get to have the leveling experience as one of them.
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Jan 23, 2022 07:12
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Oxyclean posted:I suppose this is a good point - if you want to start as a healer, you get one option (CNJ) - in some ways it might benefit new players to at least have a choice between two healers from the start. I don't think that's what people have been talking about; the idea is that SCH would start at level 30 as a brand new job (with minor rewrites to the intro quest). Creating an entire new set of 1-30 job quests seems like more effort. This solution would let you start as CNJ and switch over to SCH at level 30, like you would for say MNK and SAM right now. As opposed to being forced to level proto-SMN for 1-30 before you can heal.
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Jan 23, 2022 07:17
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I legitimately don't know what anything in the SCH kit from 60-80 (i guess 90 now) does lol since it just got boosted with my SMN
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Jan 23, 2022 07:22
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