|
Bishyaler posted:You can just guess one instead of doing process of elimination
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 04:54
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 07:06 |
|
|
I think Warren's top demo was either teachers or librarians, but I can't remember whether that was supporters from polling or by campaign contribution.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 04:57
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:The real question is what doomed her campaign: The racist ancestry claim, the racist kitsch on her dining room wall, drinking a beer on instagram like an insane weirdo, or slowly lowering her medicare for all position into a trashcan. There's always the whole sexism thing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 04:58
|
|
|
I am still consuming as much information about the Ukraine situation as I can so this opinion of mine might be very off base but.. I feel like the clock is ticking, Russia can't hold this posture for any sustained period of time due to the logistical challenges that come with holding what is essentially a war footing. I don't know how unprecedented this is but I was kind of shocked to see that the naval exercises Russia is conducting encompasses literally the entire navy. Not to discount the fact that every day that passes more and more munitions and supplies are flooding into Ukraine from various countries around the world. Basically I think Putin will fold or make a move pretty dang quickly, this is not something that is going to drag on for months.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:02
|
|
|
Dont think anyone needs to defend the lifelong republican until she was 40 who pretended to be native to get a job. Shes a pretty objectively awful person
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:08
|
|
|
This isn't meant as a defense of Warren, but the Cherokee ancestry thing reads more as utterly tone-deaf ignorance rather than racism imo. I remember talking to local folks (I live/work on a rez) at the time and they just thought it was dumb as hell. Which, sure, anecdotes. But consider the history of blood quantum--many tribal nations require a certain % blood quantum for enrollment. This was imposed on them by the US federal government as a legacy of American racism and an attempt at soft genocide (intermarriage would eventually lead to fewer and fewer tribal members on the rolls and an excuse to just terminate federal recognition of the tribe). It's not how most tribal nations regarded themselves. Specifically, the Cherokee Nation determines membership not by blood quantum but by lineal descent: if you can demonstrate you had an ancestor listed on the Dawes Rolls, you can enroll, blood quantum doesn't matter. So at least the local perception was more along the lines of Warren (and her campaign) completely whiffing and having zero understanding of the fraught history and politics of blood quantum.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:11
|
|
|
Kalit posted:There's always the whole sexism thing. The flip side of that argument is that sexism was part of her appeal. Take an old white man with Warren's history and positions, swap her out for him, and that person would've been laughed out of the primary. They would've been an entirely unremarkable ex-republican with tepid positions that changed by the week.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:12
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:The flip side of that argument is that sexism was part of her appeal. Take an old white man with Warren's history and positions, swap her out for him, and that person would've been laughed out of the primary. They would've been an entirely unremarkable ex-republican with tepid positions that changed by the week.  How would an old white man with similar history/positions of Warren have performed worse?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:15
|
|
|
Kalit posted:
Imagine how the media would have reacted if Bernie had pretended to be Jewish.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:17
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:This isn't meant as a defense of Warren, but the Cherokee ancestry thing reads more as utterly tone-deaf ignorance rather than racism imo. I think that's still racism, as (broadly) some of the worst types of racism i have to deal with comes from that whole general area. I almost prefer racism that requires malice after the thousandth time dealing with that sort of thing. In her case, it fully reads as cynical, opportunistic appropriation of an ethnic namesake for a privileged person to leverage the benefits of with zero concern for its entanglements to marginalization. Doesn't effect my opinion of warren one bit outside of me feeling that it's probably good that there were appreciable consequences to it which capped people's expectations of her viability for national office.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:37
|
|
|
Kalit posted:
Because women who want to see a woman president aren't going to support a man. Pretty simple stuff.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:41
|
|
|
Bishyaler posted:Because women who want to see a woman president aren't going to support a man. Pretty simple stuff. Do you think there's more people who would solely support a woman for president because she's a woman than a man for president because he's a man? On top of that, how do you see organizations/companies treating candidates based on their gender, since they aren't specifically individual genders who can fit this statement you're claiming? Kalit fucked around with this message at 06:00 on Jan 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 05:57
|
|
|
In my opinion the Warren campaign was 100% about identity, but nothing to do with her gender nor her cynical exploitation of a historically brutalized ethnic minority she isn't part of The central thesis of the campaign and the draw for many of its adherents was that our societal problems persist in large part because mysteriously nobody had figured out effective-enough solutions to them(seen in her explicit branding about "having a plan for that" regardless of what "that" is), in opposition to the Sanders thesis that societal problems persist because the wealthy and powerful personally benefit from them and intentionally propagate and defend the status quo that produces those problems. Her argument for her candidacy was "I'm really smart" and everything else was downstream of that As a result, Warren found niche appeal in a specific subgroup of educated professional class left-libs who could recognize how many people in our society were getting a raw deal and mostly wished that wouldn't happen, but also felt personally comfortable and didn't want to do anything rash in support of correcting societal injustice in case it upset the apple cart. Warren allowed them to square that logical circle because they could view themselves as opposing societal injustice in the abstract, but they were not required to do something, only be something, and in this case, something flattering, since educated professional class left-libs all want to think of themselves as smart already. If we are simply clever enough about our implementation, we can fix everything. We do not need to fight anyone. The question of "well what do you do if the system prevents you from ever sniffing the implementation stage" was never really addressed, ironically because "plans" were not themselves an actionable plan for achieving change, but simple branding poo poo This did reach a really funny inflection point though at the end of her campaign when she was drowning in failure, and her acolytes realized action would actually be required... and they came up with "she's electable if you vote for her." Even the call to action was only in service of validating a personal trait that they already believed she had and the less enlightened refused to recognize On the flipside, people who did not identify with her particular brand of academic affect(read: just about everyone) tended to find her off-putting and she didn't have remotely the personal charisma to generate meaningful crossover appeal. She was never a viable candidate and there's really no evidence to suggest otherwise
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:06
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:This isn't meant as a defense of Warren, but the Cherokee ancestry thing reads more as utterly tone-deaf ignorance rather than racism imo. I remember talking to local folks (I live/work on a rez) at the time and they just thought it was dumb as hell. Which, sure, anecdotes. But consider the history of blood quantum--many tribal nations require a certain % blood quantum for enrollment. This was imposed on them by the US federal government as a legacy of American racism and an attempt at soft genocide (intermarriage would eventually lead to fewer and fewer tribal members on the rolls and an excuse to just terminate federal recognition of the tribe). It's not how most tribal nations regarded themselves. It's racist grandma at the dinner table talking about stories she heard as a wee child about her great great great grandpa. If it's naivete it was disqualifying, the president in 2020 should not be carrying a torch for manifest destiny racist myth. And I agree that is tone deaf ignorance but someone in Warrens position is so privileged that it's kind of full out racist. She's never had the time to figure this poo poo out and not look like an idiot? And she defended herself with a DNA test which is... yeah. Really missing the point.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:08
|
|
|
cr0y posted:I am still consuming as much information about the Ukraine situation as I can so this opinion of mine might be very off base but.. Isn't Ukraine of minimal strategic value to the US/NATO countries and the only reason for propping it up with arms shipments and aid is a flimsy ideological one? Like push comes to shove my guess is a lot of that equipment being sent to Ukraine won't do much good and would likely get captured by the Russians in short order as the Ukranian army quickly throws down their weapons and runs or surrenders. The country is beyond corrupt and heavily infiltrated by the Russians as it is. What sort of defense could they hope to mount on their own, even with imported weapons? If a NATO country decides to send troops in to defend Ukraine, then we basically get into a nuclear war scenario immediately. It's similar to the Taiwan situation. China is rapidly fortifying islands all over the pacific to form a ring of missile bases surrounding their strategic interests. When they make their move on Taiwan they'll saturated the US navy with swarms of anti-ship missiles that would make it extremely costly to fight any kind of war in the region. Not to mention that these long range missiles are quickly making aircraft carriers a multi billion dollar boondoggle of obsoleteness in the same way the carriers themselves made battleships obsolete in WW2. All things being said, from a realpolitik perspective I don't see the US or anyone defending places like Taiwan or Ukraine anymore. The era of ideology ended with the cold war and I think everything now is based on rigid self interest and what the rich elites of each participating country want. Putin wants his ideological victory to cement his power and have his buffer states as a check against NATO encroachment and the US gets... nothing. It's not profitable.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:10
|
|
|
A certain class of liberal mostly represented in the media class spent 20 years being trained to worship Hillary Clinton, and unsurprisingly it resulted in some amazing freaks with a bizarrely warped view of the world.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:31
|
|
|
Kalit posted:Do you think there's more people who would solely support a woman for president because she's a woman than a man for president because he's a man? Is this you trying to tease out that I don't believe in misogyny impacting elections/workplaces because I believe there are voters whose single or primary motivation is to break barriers? Misogyny absolutely exists and it hurts most female candidates. I just don't think that was the case for Warren.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:40
|
|
|
Terminal autist posted:Dont think anyone needs to defend the lifelong republican until she was 40 who pretended to be native to get a job. Shes a pretty objectively awful person She's an opportunist. Switched from conservative to progressive when it became trendy. Tossed Bernie under the bus when she thought she could weasel her way into a cabinet position with Biden. I think misogyny would crush her chances at becoming President in a general election. But I also think being a phony is the reason she didn't stand a chance at getting the nomination.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 06:47
|
|
|
I realize I waded into the conversation some myself, but per Koos' edict we ought to avoid revisiting conversations that have already been done to death, it's probably not adding much new or interesting to Current Events discussion. I'm not threatening probes or anything, just suggesting folks wrap up 2020 primary discussion unless there's fresh information that might add something new. It's a Sunday night and the thread is slow, but it would be best if this particular area of discussion came to a close soon-ish. Thanks.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 07:22
|
|
|
cr0y posted:I am still consuming as much information about the Ukraine situation as I can so this opinion of mine might be very off base but.. It's a lot easier for Russia to hold its posture when their ground forces are sitting on their own home turf, though. That's one of the key advantages they have: they share a border with Ukraine, while we're on the other side of the planet. True, it's expensive to have their Black Sea subs mobilized, and to have surface ships doing exercises with China and Iran in the Gulf of Oman, but they honestly don't have to keep doing this for very long. They just have to hold on until we blink first, which we probably will. We will eventually say, "Okay, we've given Ukraine everything we can, now it's up to them," and kick the "Ukraine joins NATO" can down the road even more indefinitely. Then Putin can crow to his domestic audience that he humiliated NATO, his approval ratings will get a boost, and his siloviki will keep supporting him.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 08:23
|
|
|
Kraftwerk posted:Isn't Ukraine of minimal strategic value to the US/NATO countries and the only reason for propping it up with arms shipments and aid is a flimsy ideological one? First, china will not move on Taiwan without the direct approval of the us. First, because any action that isn't a cakewalk risks the sensitive infastructure that is the realpolitik reason to grab it. Second because any action that attacks US forces directly gives the us war hawks cart blanche. They have been salivating for the war against communism in China for 75 years. And that's if you forget a nuclear armed country firing on another nuclear armed country is calling in the world's suicide pact. And that the economies are so linked it would instantly crash both. That's why all the response the US gives is a tripwire force and FoN operations. It just needs to show it intends to enforce the line. As for Russia it's ability to actually hold territory is dubious. The tax a modern army pays in a gurrila war is harsh. And Ukraine has far less of a paper army than say Afghanistan. Frankly I suspect the Russian aligned force in Ukraine was on the brink of a collapse and they had to step up to make Ukraine back off and reorganize. Russia currently looks like Spain with nukes. Don't think they still pull the superpower numbers they could when the USSR covered half of Asia and half of Europe.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 13:18
|
|
|
SCOTUS is going to take another shot at getting rid of affirmative action again https://twitter.com/scotusblog/status/1485621994691383302?s=21
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 15:44
|
|
|
The anti-vax civil rights rally in D.C. attracted an estimated 20,000 this weekend and seems like it was a normal and cool affair. https://twitter.com/sfortinsky/status/1485618923986903040 quote:At a rally against vaccine mandates in Washington, DC, on Sunday, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. likened vaccine policies in the US to the actions of a totalitarian state, even suggesting Anne Frank was in a better situation when she was hiding from the Nazis. quote:"Even in Hitler Germany (sic), you could, you could cross the Alps into Switzerland. You could hide in an attic, like Anne Frank did," said Kennedy, a prominent anti-vaccine advocate, in a speech at the Lincoln Memorial. "I visited, in 1962, East Germany with my father and met people who had climbed the wall and escaped, so it was possible. Many died, true, but it was possible." quote:Kennedy's historically inaccurate anti-Semitic remark ignores the fact that Frank and some 6 million other Jews were murdered by Nazis. Frank, who was a teenager at the time, hid in an attic in the Netherlands, not Germany, before she was caught and was sent to a concentration camp, where she died. quote:At least one speaker was seen displaying a yellow Star of David, which Jews were required by law to wear as an identifier in Nazi Germany. quote:Another sign with clear anti-Semitic sentiments read, "Corrupt, N.I.H., Big Pharma Mafia, Big C.D.C. Cartel; Big Fraud Media: Your circumcision is dividing America! You all have foreskin-blood stained money in your thug hands!!" quote:CNN's Joe Johns spoke to three women -- Kim Cogswell, Christina Patterson and Erin Nichols -- who traveled from Pennsylvania and Maryland to Washington for what two of them said was their first-ever large-scale protest. They said the lack of freedom is their biggest frustration with vaccine mandates, though none would say confidently they thought the vaccines were safe. quote:Patterson said she works in the school system
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 15:48
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:SCOTUS is going to take another shot at getting rid of affirmative action again Affirmative Action as it existed before has already been dead since 2003. If the court sides with the plaintiffs in this situation, it would just create a weird situation where colleges are allowed to attempt to racially balance their acceptance rates, but they have to do it in some way other than just looking at what race they selected on their application form. That is sort of chipping away at what was left after 2003. It won't likely have a huge impact, but it is kind of non-sensical that schools would be allowed to try and explicitly have a goal of increasing the acceptance of a certain race, as long as they do it in a race-neutral way. So, the transition has been: 1) Colleges had racial quotas. 2) Quotas are unconstitutional, but they can use race as a preferential characteristic. 3) Race can't be given special preference over other standards, but race can be used as a bonus on point-based systems or a tiebreaker. Possibly after this case: 4) Colleges can try to adjust the racial makeup of their classes, but they can't use race explicitly to do so. Implementing policies to try and get more students of a certain demographic is fine, but you can't just give them a point for being a certain race.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:04
|
|
|
Fritz the Horse posted:I realize I waded into the conversation some myself, but per Koos' edict we ought to avoid revisiting conversations that have already been done to death, it's probably not adding much new or interesting to Current Events discussion. Is there any way we could get a list of non-sanctioned, done-to-death topics? Or perhaps the criteria used to determine them? Because otherwise it's easy to wade into them, especially (as you pointed out) when mods do so themselves, and because some topics been barred from discussion in the past based on sentiments like "we were hoping this topic would just go away" under the guise of "we've talked about it too much." To some posters, Joe Manchin's Daily Mind Mutterings might fit that criteria, while to others they're a fascinating topic worthy of several-times-a-day updates. Thanks. (n.b.: It's been several months & several new mods now since the feedback thread was closed "temporarily"; will it ever reopen or will we wait for a new iteration in a year or so, as has been the pattern in the past?)
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:06
|
|
|
Podesta Is Back, Baby (one of them, at least) and K Street's Got Him!quote:Biden-tied lobbying firms raked in the dough during his first year And speaking of lobbying, Facebook set a new record for lobbying last year, more than $20 million, with Google only a smidgen behind: quote:Facebook, now renamed Meta, had previously set a lobbying record for the company by spending $19.7 million in 2020. That makes Facebook one of the top lobbying spenders in Washington, outpacing power players such as Lockheed Martin and Boeing.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:17
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:Is there any way we could get a list of non-sanctioned, done-to-death topics? Or perhaps the criteria used to determine them? Yes, sorry for “posting about posting” but without a feedback thread there’s no other place for it. I was enjoying the discussion and was learning from some new perspectives (I hadn’t considered Warren might have been treated less favorably if she were male, for example). Thought provoking discussions about recent events occur organically and moving them to dedicated threads often ends the discourse. I’m sure I’m not the only one who hasn’t been here for the 2020 dem primary discussions, to me it’s not “done to death”. Occasionally rehashing previous topics doesn’t impede the discussion of other, newer events. The thread has been pretty good overall, but Limiting discussion topics to mod-approved current events stifles free and fruitful discussions. in this posters opinion, anyways
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:25
|
|
|
"You could hide in an attic, like Anne Frank did," Oh man I feel for RFK Jr here, I too have tried to give an oral book report without actually doing the reading
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:29
|
|
|
lol at describing Tony Podesta as "lured back" into lobbying. That is some very generous phrasing by Politico. He has wanted to get back in for years (and has been for at least one year) and the only reason he "got out" is because he had an ugly divorce and his ex-wife Heather took half the firm. Then, right after that, it came out that one of their contact lobbyists was doing work for Ukraine, wasn't reporting it, and Robert Mueller started investigating. Which meant that their most profitable sector (international) couldn't operate, so they "temporarily" closed down for 5 years. So, him being part of K Street (technically, he is actually on M street), isn't new at all. It's the only place he has ever been. Only having one client after he lost half the business and then had the other half shut down for 5 years is "crawling back as soon as he was able to get whatever could" and not "lured back."
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:32
|
|
|
FlamingLiberal posted:SCOTUS is going to take another shot at getting rid of affirmative action again Sigh. How many Asian-American students got happily recruited for these suits? Smiling as they're used as pawns to keep brown people out of our precious elite schools...
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:33
|
|
|
BIG-DICK-BUTT-gently caress posted:Yes, sorry for “posting about posting” but without a feedback thread there’s no other place for it. The main issue is the hashed and rehashed primary chat. Again, if your fear is that discourse will die in a dedicated US Primary thread, then is there really that much interest?
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:43
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:And speaking of lobbying, Facebook set a new record for lobbying last year, more than $20 million, with Google only a smidgen behind: There’s also that ongoing antitrust lawsuit at DOJ which is currently not going well for them
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:56
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:The main issue is the hashed and rehashed primary chat. Again, if your fear is that discourse will die in a dedicated US Primary thread, then is there really that much interest? I don't really know why it happens, or any idea for a solution, but I've fairly often seen conversations that people were actually interested in (based on the frequency of messages about the topic) die because they were asked to move somewhere else. Flying-PCP fucked around with this message at 17:00 on Jan 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:58
|
|
|
CommieGIR posted:The main issue is the hashed and rehashed primary chat. Again, if your fear is that discourse will die in a dedicated US Primary thread, then is there really that much interest? I mean, it's not a matter of hashing/rehashing when we're talking about an aspect or a candidate who's still in the news bc of her day job, and when the topic will burn itself out naturally. It was an offhand & unheated convo that ended after a couple pages, not Did Hillary Deserve to Lose in 2016, part 117. eta: It was way less than a couple pages; it started at the end of the prior page. Fritz's take from a Cherokee/Native standpoint was new to me, and was enlightening. Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:02 on Jan 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 16:59
|
|
|
My point is: Plenty of threads survive just fine, often with Us centric topics. Despite the claims: There is no mod conspiracy to shut down topics. That is not the goal. Its a manageability issue. Plenty of topics (1/6 being a good example to name one) are perfectly capable of standing on their own, why not Primary chat? The only reason it couldn't is because there isn't actually that much interest. Or maybe there is and you just haven't tried making the thread yet.
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:06
|
|
|
And my point was: Could we have a list of topics that mods want disappeared from this thread into their own threads? eta: Plus an ETA on the return of the feedback thread. Thanks!
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:13
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:And my point was: Could we have a list of topics that mods want disappeared from this thread into their own threads? A very loaded question I would say. And Feedback thread would be up to Koos. Either way Willa: You seem to have a lot of resources around polling and primary/politics, why haven't you made a thread for it? https://twitter.com/CBSSunday/status/1485266433164595206?s=20 Another "Feel Good Story" about using Child Labor to avoid paying people more and actually providing incentives to employees. https://twitter.com/thehill/status/1484872732542128130?s=20 Florida Committee passed a bill that makes it illegal for educators to discuss LGBT issues. There's also a bill to require them to out LGBT kids to their parents. CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Jan 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:16
|
|
|
Sarah Palin filed a From The Hollywood Reporter: quote:The former vice presidential candidate alleges being defamed by a 2017 editorial linking one of her political action committee ads to a 2011 mass shooting that severely wounded then-Arizona Congresswoman Gabby Giffords. James Bennet, the author of the editorial, picked up on the use of crosshairs in the advertisement and wished to make a point about the “rhetoric of demonization and whether it incites people to this kind of violence.” But less than a day after the editorial ran, the paper revised the editorial and published a series of corrections clarifying that no link had ever been established between Palin’s ad and the shooter’s motivation. From Politico: quote:Some media advocates say the fact that the case is going to trial at all is a sign that almost a half-century of deference to the press in the courts is giving way to a more challenging legal landscape for journalists, media companies and their attorneys. e: vvv lol Willa Rogers fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Jan 24, 2022 |
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:27
|
|
|
Willa Rogers posted:Sarah Palin filed a libel suit against the NY Times & jury selection begins today. It's based on the NYT associating her with Gabby Giffords' shooting bc of Palin's "target" ads a decade ago. She's going to be unavailable for a little while... https://twitter.com/nytimes/status/1485651123776147457?s=20
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:31
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 21, 2024 07:06 |
|
Leon Trotsky 2012 posted:The anti-vax civil rights rally in D.C. attracted an estimated 20,000 this weekend and seems like it was a normal and cool affair. All the article says is that they secured a permit for up to 20,000 people. According to The Washington Post only a few thousand actually showed up. The Washington Post posted:Organizers had estimated that 20,000 people would attend the rally, marching from the Washington Monument to the Lincoln Memorial, according to a permit issued by the National Park Service. A smaller crowd of several thousand had arrived on the Mall by early Sunday afternoon. Still a few thousand too many, of course, but not nearly as massive as the organizers had claimed.
|
|
|
#
?
Jan 24, 2022 17:32
|
|
