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Sinteres posted:It's just an analogy. Given the propensity to bring up Munich itt, I don't see the problem. I'm not planning to do a deep dive or anything, if that helps. Anyway I certainly don't think keeping Kadyrov around is admirable, but if it keeps thousands of (mostly Chechen) people from dying in another war, I think describing it as cowardice is pretty weird. Well it's an amazingly dumb analogy. Kadyrov was put in place by Putin, depends on him for financing, encouraged to kill Putin's enemies and allowed to kill his own enemies in Chechnya. Now he's kidnapping Russians in other parts of Russia and Putin is afraid to tell him to stay put in the borders of his fiefdom. Being unable to stand up to the idiot you put in power and used for your own goals when he can cause problems for you, while also being extremely ruthless with anyone else in the country that doesn't toe the line in contrast, is indeed cowardice. Pretty weird is trying to spin this into intelligent calculation of conflict avoidance
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Jan 24, 2022 16:55
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Somaen posted:Well it's an amazingly dumb analogy. Kadyrov was put in place by Putin, depends on him for financing, encouraged to kill Putin's enemies and allowed to kill his own enemies in Chechnya. Now he's kidnapping Russians in other parts of Russia and Putin is afraid to tell him to stay put in the borders of his fiefdom. Being unable to stand up to the idiot you put in power and used for your own goals when he can cause problems for you, while also being extremely ruthless with anyone else in the country that doesn't toe the line in contrast, is indeed cowardice. Pretty weird is trying to spin this into intelligent calculation of conflict avoidance Sorry you didn't like my analogy, but I think we're just going to have to disagree about what being a coward is. Obviously Kadyrov's a reprehensible person, as is Putin, and they're both pretty clearly murderers (I did some reading to refresh my knowledge of Kadyrov's crimes since we last discussed this, and I genuinely am outraged), but avoiding a third Chechen war still seems like a pretty important goal to me. I mean really it's not even all that clear that Putin disapproves very strongly of Kadyrov's methods in the first place.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:04
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He is desperate to get a win out of anything this year.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:15
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Sinteres posted:Come on man, I can't even make a little joke about a parliamentarian shitposting about 15th Century political geography without getting fact checked? This thread is for Clancy and salad chat only, I'm sorry 
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Jan 24, 2022 17:17
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Russia is going to invigorate the Cuban economy by crashing the carrier and leaving it to be scrapped by locals What about salady Clancy chat
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Jan 24, 2022 17:23
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Calling in the fuckin Cubans for a reference doesn't strike me as a sign of strength.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:31
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Cuba already is an observer in the Euroasian Union. What other symbolic bullshit are they going to tack on top of that to embellish their relations.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:33
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Putin痴 all about living in the glories of Russia past so trying to remake the Cuban missile crisis is p unsurprising tbh. Going to fall under the sway of a mystic healer and have an affair with a horse next.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:34
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Calling in the fuckin Cubans for a reference doesn't strike me as a sign of strength.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:35
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Cugel the Clever posted:It's bait to prompt the US into doing/saying something stupid that would feed into the "would Amerikkka accept hostile alliance in its sphere of interest?!" talking point. Yeah it's 100% this. Blinken already said something stupid about it a while ago, so it's not exactly an impossible gotcha either, transparent though it may be.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:37
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BIG FLUFFY DOG posted:Putin’s all about living in the glories of Russia past so trying to remake the Cuban missile crisis is p unsurprising tbh. Going to fall under the sway of a mystic healer and have an affair with a horse next. Then annex Corfu Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 17:39
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A GIANT PARSNIP posted:Calling in the fuckin Cubans for a reference doesn't strike me as a sign of strength. Yeah this is the bit where Russia's hamfisted international messaging accidentally emphasises that they don't really have any friends in the world.
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Jan 24, 2022 17:56
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I mean, what are they going to do, station nukes in Cuba and pretend Russia don't already have submarine borne IRBMs off the US coasts?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:03
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Putin knows nothing he can put in Cuba has any strategic value, but I bet even a token force would be used against Biden to say he's a weak foreign policy president, first withdrawing from Afghanistan and then seeing a return of hostile forces off the coast of Florida, which is why Biden can get trapped into responding and putting American hypocrisy on display. Does it actually do Russia any good though? Probably not in any concrete way other than undermining Biden domestically.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:09
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Sinteres posted:Putin knows nothing he can put in Cuba has any strategic value, but I bet even a token force would be used against Biden to say he's a weak foreign policy president, first withdrawing from Afghanistan and then seeing a return of hostile forces off the coast of Florida, which is why Biden can get trapped into responding and putting American hypocrisy on display. Does it actually do Russia any good though? Probably not in any concrete way other than undermining Biden domestically. This would depend entirely on Cuba wanting to be involved in this poo poo. And apart from not hanging up on Putin when he called them, there's no sign they do. It's not like they stand to gain anything by pissing off the US.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:12
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Vincent Van Goatse posted:This would depend entirely on Cuba wanting to be involved in this poo poo. And apart from not hanging up on Putin when he called them, there's no sign they do. Yeah there's a decent chance it's just hot air. Venezuela would probably go along with it, but that's a little less on the nose since it's a bit more distant and not partially occupied by the US, so I'm not sure it would be all that worthwhile (to the extent that the whole thing is worthwhile to begin with, which is not very).
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Jan 24, 2022 18:14
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https://twitter.com/Fxhedgers/statu...genumber%3D2853 Does this mean they've been talking and now they're pretty sure a decision has been made? Just waiting on the message to arrive?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:18
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spacetoaster posted:https://twitter.com/Fxhedgers/statu...genumber%3D2853 I mean Putin is basically giving out options assuming they won't be met, so I suspect so.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:19
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The last 2 weeks of negotiations have been stalling tactics rather than a genuine attempt to engage with Russia, who themselves came with to the table asking for massive concessions they don't expect to receive. I should add, anything that gets Putin to back off or at the very least dial down the scale of the conflict will involve throwing Zelensky's administration under the bus. Conspiratiorist fucked around with this message at 18:25 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 18:22
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Conspiratiorist posted:The last 2 weeks of negotiations have been stalling tactics rather than a genuine attempt to engage with Russia, who themselves came with to the table asking for massive concessions they don't expect to receive. Yeah even the arrest of the REvil Ransomware operators was likely an appeasement attempt to get the US to back off on Ukraine.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:23
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The list of leaders on this call is... interesting: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news...f085a8aa7ae039fquote:More on the Ukraine situation: Joe Biden will hold a video call this afternoon with European leaders about the possible Russian invasion of Ukraine.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:25
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Poor Erdogan.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:27
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Sinteres posted:Chechnya is part of Russia, and engaged in attacks against Russia during the interwar period, so it doesn't really belong in a narrative about Russia's expansionist impulses. The point was more about willingness to use force, be it offensively or defensively. That was just for the European sphere too, since there's their involvement in Syria and Libya to account for as well. And other than Chechnya 1 (which was rectified by the slaughter that was Chechnya 2, codifying Russian stability for a new generation) they've achieved their basic aims in each case.
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Jan 24, 2022 18:39
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This is just sabre rattling, right?
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Jan 24, 2022 18:45
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https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485669818921586692
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Jan 24, 2022 18:52
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Winning hearts and minds by laying down sick burns on the country doing the most to try to prevent their invasion (short of trying diplomacy, anyway).
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Jan 24, 2022 18:58
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Maybe Putin will help Iraqi citizens fly to Havana and get on boats to Florida to pressure USA? 
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Jan 24, 2022 18:59
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Ah yes, the Crime of Invasion. Rampant in the US. I get what he is saying, but the reality is the invasion keeps looking more of a reality and I don't think the Biden admin has the stomach for a Afghanistan withdrawal 2.0 CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 19:03 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 19:01
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Sinteres posted:Winning hearts and minds by laying down sick burns on the country doing the most to try to prevent their invasion (short of trying diplomacy, anyway). After Biden saying Russia could have a small invasion, as a treat, I don't think any burn is too big. https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1484171183264129025
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Jan 24, 2022 19:05
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CommieGIR posted:Hey, maybe Smokey the Carrier will visit Cuba. So excited. Break down on its way to Cuba and be towed to a US port.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:05
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Conspiratiorist posted:After Biden saying Russia could have a small invasion, as a treat, I don't think any burn is too big. They should really own him by declining his future assistance then. I know Zelensky has domestic political concerns to worry about too, but biting the hand that feeds is generally a bad idea.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:07
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Sinteres posted:They should really own him by declining his future assistance then. I know Zelensky has domestic political concerns to worry about too, but biting the hand that feeds is generally a bad idea. how does it feel, being successfully trolled by zelensky
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Jan 24, 2022 19:18
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Sinteres posted:They should really own him by declining his future assistance then. I know Zelensky has domestic political concerns to worry about too, but biting the hand that feeds is generally a bad idea. What else is there? I mean, you could argue we're here in the first place because Ukraine hasn't been suitably groveling, but they're sat out of all diplomatic talks between the West and Russia anyway, so sort of entirely capitulating really their only recourse is calling out the leaders dictating the nation's future among themselves.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:18
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I think it's fine and understandable for the leaders of the democratic nation that's about to be invaded and annexed in an imperial war of conquest to be a little salty that the democracies of the 'free world' are waffling about discussing what type of sanctions they might slap on the imperial aggressor rather than, you know, defending democracy. I'm not going to fault them for being a little pissed.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:21
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OddObserver posted:Meanwhile Germany continues to be a disgrace: Guy looks like Lenin Also getting tired of BBC posting basically the same article with subtle changes for days now regarding the situation. I get they have 100k troops at the border thats old as gently caress news write something new.
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Jan 24, 2022 19:21
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Preoptopus posted:Guy looks like Lenin eh, not really, except for the whole "being bald" thing the most lenin-looking dude i know of is leonardo dicaprio. i think he should do a biopic or something about the revolution or whatever nurmie fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 19:24
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nurmie posted:how does it feel, being successfully trolled by zelensky The modern day Nero, making le epic trollface while Kiev burns. Conspiratiorist posted:What else is there? I mean, you could argue we're here in the first place because Ukraine hasn't been suitably groveling, but they're sat out of all diplomatic talks between the West and Russia anyway, so sort of entirely capitulating really their only recourse is calling out the leaders dictating the nation's future among themselves. I totally understand the frustration at not being in charge of his own destiny, but if I were his adviser I'd tell him not to go public with that frustration at a delicate time.  The Ukraine is a great power tweet is relatively mild pushback, but whoever decided to call the US a crime ridden shithole is a moron even (or especially) if they have a point.
Dr Kool-AIDS fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 19:28
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Sinteres posted:The modern day Nero, making le epic trollface while Kiev burns. Thankfully, you池e not his advisor. The last thing preservation of civic order in Ukraine needs is its President taking to the chin a supposed ally saying that Ukraine may be politely invaded. Whoever of his advisors made the LA crime comment is a moron who should watch less Hollywood, but the underlying concern expressed down the thread does also remain valid - withdrawal of diplomatic staff is relatively loud vote of no confidence. Edit: https://twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485678910130040836 cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 19:37
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Sinteres posted:Poor Erdogan. For real though, it seems like Turkey would be a major stakeholder in Russia cementing it's hold over the northern Black Sea coast. I've read basically zero about how Turkey feels in all this. Anybody have any insight into what, if anything, is Erdogan's position and potential plans?
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Jan 24, 2022 19:44
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Spell its name right, or pay the price!!!!
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