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From what I understand of the subject, the emissions of last mile delivery from online ordering outweigh the emissions from non-single use plastic pretty heavily. Overall board games are Not Bad and If you’re even concerned about this you’re probably a decent enough person in other aspects to be way ahead of the curve. If they help you find a bit of joy in our modern hellscape don’t beat yourself up about it. Edit: But definitely torch any companies that get involved with crypto, nfts, blockchain, and other garbage under any new scam they come up with. Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Jan 25, 2022 |
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Jan 25, 2022 06:31
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Save your sprues, build guys
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Jan 25, 2022 06:47
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Reina Knizia has single handedly destroyed this planet via plastic components
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Jan 25, 2022 07:26
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Mayveena posted:SA must be SA, that's totally fine. Also I have a question for you all. One of the things that's obvious to me is that some of these board games (KS or not) use way too much plastic. It really irritates me and is kind of why I haven't sworn off of KS entirely. It feels like the extensive use of plastic is worse on the climate than what Kickstarter is doing. Am I wrong for thinking this way? As was said before, both matter and have different impact. In fact, it's starting to penetrate the board gaming world; Shut Up and Sit Down have talked about being hesitant about excessively plastic board games, and Tony of The Secret Cabal has been complaining about concerns over the health effects of microplastics (partly in jest, partly seriously, and I admit I don't know the science). At least with a plastic miniature, at least you're getting a durable good, an object meant to serve a purpose over time. There is a a waste and an ecological effect that can not and should not be ignored, but it is serving a goal. Even a single-use plastic straw or plastic bag is at least ostensibly serving a purpose, even if the cost-benefit is out of whack. However, even if I don't know the true cost of the worldwide plastic industry, we can surmise that the cost-benefit of crypto must be much worse because the societal gains is less; insofar that crypto is literally nothing outside of finding other bagholders in financial speculation. It's not even anything new: you already could do that on the internet with a penny stock pump-and-dump scheme. That's why people are reacting so negatively to this. It isn't simply an otherwise air-quotes 'benign' action of a corp under capitalism. Back to plastics for a bit, to consider them in their own scope outside of crypto bullshit: do I need that game to last for 400 years, when I am definitely going to be dead before then? I mean, kept safe and dry, a paper and cardboard board game can last for decades, and wood and metal pieces will last similarly past a human's lifespan. Do I really need that plastic piece? Does it have to look like a person with a sword? Could it just be a standee or a wooden pawn? We all love trees and are sad when they get cut down, but that tree grows in decades whereas that plastic won't decay for centuries and is likely made from something that takes thousands or possibly millions of years to create. These are important questions that I am not well versed in just yet. Mayveena posted:It did come with plastic bags but who knows maybe one day we’ll get cotton bags instead of plastic. News broke a little while ago about the carbon footprint of cotton over other alternatives for bags (shopping bags specifically), and it's not what you might imagine at first blush. Sci Show had an interesting video on this at the time: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvzvM9tf5s0. The important thing to take out of this is that sustainability can be complicated and multifaceted, and this only looked at the carbon footprint and not the full scope of pollution. It's all I can do to try and keep mindful of these concerns, and I have to rely on people who know more than me about the climate science to disseminate the information. I'm pretty sure I hadn't heard the word 'sustainability' used in that context until like 2009? Obviously the mindshare has grown since then. Hopefully some day I can add important resources to the OP; it's on my list to do, but my weekends have been full and it's a drag to fill them with negativity even for the greater purpose of providing a resource to make gaming slightly better.
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Jan 25, 2022 09:40
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Ubik_Lives posted:I feel like Prada had a point here, because while using a blockchain system is hideously inefficient compared to traditional methods, it's orders of magnitude better than Bitcoin. Sorry, perhaps I wasn't clear. My cited energy cost of the BTC transaction does not include the cost of mining the coin. It is the cost of simply adding one transaction to the blockchain. BTC is the least efficient blockchain only because it is the oldest; ultimately, every blockchain will trend towards the same infinite level of waste because that's how blockchain works.
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Jan 25, 2022 10:34
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Ubik_Lives posted:I feel like Prada had a point here, because while using a blockchain system is hideously inefficient compared to traditional methods, it's orders of magnitude better than Bitcoin. All blockchain and all crypto that are advertised or referenced to consumers are scams or gimmicks borne out of incompetency. The legitimate uses of "blockshain technology" are incredibly limited,and have nothing to do with you and me who enjoy board games. Bitcoin and like, Cardano or some other stupid magic piece of code are different levels of bad, and bad in different ways, but for a consumer the reasons they are bad are the same. It's all a trash fire of marks looking for a bigger mark to get their money.
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Jan 25, 2022 11:57
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@Magnetic North please add mod info in the OP. This is a big thread that has had multiple iterations, despite being maybe slower than other big threads. Maybe we have an IK. Maybe even if our thread is slow, maybe there's a particular mod that pays attention to it e- okay maybe I was too angry. prada slut is being awful every time they show their ugly rear end Dancer fucked around with this message at 12:18 on Jan 25, 2022 |
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Jan 25, 2022 12:00
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Just report the post, or pm a TG mod directly. Y'all acting like he kicked your dog
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Jan 25, 2022 12:03
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Yeah report and move on. Anyway, I've been going off on bga unique plays aiming vaguely at the extremely elite status of "can join alpha games at will". In the last little while: Lucky Numbers: complete topdeck fest wtf Railways of the World: was awful async with the giant map. Probably better in person. Fluxx: also complete topdeck fest when it turned into "draw one, play all, hand size 0", but hey at least I knew that going in For Sale: still top tier filler
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Jan 25, 2022 12:10
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Speaking of For Sale, any trip reports on the new For Sale expansion? Does it overcomplicate the simple elegance?
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Jan 25, 2022 14:09
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It doesn't have to be one or the other. 1) Feck blockchains 2) Feck minis 3) Threadban Prada
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Jan 25, 2022 14:52
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Frankly if we’re worried about environmental impacts we should move the board game industry to pure print & play then swap pictures of our handmade copies of games
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Jan 25, 2022 14:59
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Triskelli posted:Frankly if we’re worried about environmental impacts we should move the board game industry to pure print & play then swap pictures of our handmade copies of games I don't know how I'd react if someone said 'oh hey let's play Root' and pulled this out. I think my brain would just hit a bsod.
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Jan 25, 2022 15:08
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Bootleg Root is great:strip_icc()/pic5499922.png)
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Jan 25, 2022 15:17
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I can understand not wanting to buy extra, unnecessary plastic, but also we're literally talking about toys here. Like, boardgames are our adult toys. I don't feel like I'm contributing to the demise of the planet when I buy Lego, for example. There's a big difference between some plastic bits in a box on my shelf that I'm going to get years of use and enjoyment from and the plastic that's used in a 20 oz Coke bottle (which I recycle btw). I guess I'm saying I totally respect your avoidance of extra plastic bits, but it's not really a thing I personally feel guilty about in this hobby.
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Jan 25, 2022 15:22
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armorer posted:I can understand not wanting to buy extra, unnecessary plastic, but also we're literally talking about toys here. Like, boardgames are our adult toys. I don't feel like I'm contributing to the demise of the planet when I buy Lego, for example. There's a big difference between some plastic bits in a box on my shelf that I'm going to get years of use and enjoyment from and the plastic that's used in a 20 oz Coke bottle (which I recycle btw). And one thing that board games have in common with Lego is that they get re-sold and re-used, reducing demand for new product. Yeah I realize that the hobby doesn't affect much in the scheme of things, but I keep having this visceral reaction to plastic in the ocean which sickens me and I want to do something about it. Rationally we can keep on keeping on, noting that our choices within this hobby don't amount to a lot regarding climate change.
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Jan 25, 2022 16:38
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Mayveena posted:And one thing that board games have in common with Lego is that they get re-sold and re-used, reducing demand for new product. Yeah I realize that the hobby doesn't affect much in the scheme of things, but I keep having this visceral reaction to plastic in the ocean which sickens me and I want to do something about it. Rationally we can keep on keeping on, noting that our choices within this hobby don't amount to a lot regarding climate change. That's actually why I specifically called out Lego in the comparison, although Lego blocks are produced in much higher volume than the print runs on most of the board games discussed here. Reliance on plastic is a major problem in modern western society, I don't mean to argue otherwise, but there are much more significant areas of daily life to focus on reduction of plastic usage than one's board game collection. Single use plastic is where I would encourage everyone to focus first. Stop using shrink wrap and ziploc bags in favor of reusable containers, use reusable shopping bags, never buy bottled water, steer away from clamshell packaged products, etc. I don't personally believe that the existence or non-existence of the GameTrayz inserts in my copy of Eclipse: Second Dawn really makes a meaningful difference in terms of the current global ecological situation.
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Jan 25, 2022 17:14
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Mayveena posted:And one thing that board games have in common with Lego is that they get re-sold and re-used, reducing demand for new product. Yeah I realize that the hobby doesn't affect much in the scheme of things, but I keep having this visceral reaction to plastic in the ocean which sickens me and I want to do something about it. Rationally we can keep on keeping on, noting that our choices within this hobby don't amount to a lot regarding climate change. I'd be more worried about the shrink wrapping on boxes and cards than about plastic minis, that stuff is far more insidious environmentally.
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Jan 25, 2022 17:22
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the holy poopacy posted:I'd be more worried about the shrink wrapping on boxes and cards than about plastic minis, that stuff is far more insidious environmentally. That's actually something I've seen some (admittedly environmentally aware) recent games doing away with. https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/canopygame/canopy/posts/3412323 In this update on Canopy there's some discussion about eliminating shrink wrap for that release. (He does state it is very much still the industry standard to use shrink wrap though.) Also the abstract game P'achakuna made a point of being carbon neutral https://treecer.com/en/store/product/P%27achakuna%20-%20Deluxe
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Jan 25, 2022 17:31
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We all live and breathe in a plastic miasma. Some of it gives us cancer, some of it gives us tiny toy farmers and space ships.
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Jan 25, 2022 17:53
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I was just looking at Aquanauts, which uses "bioplastic formed of crops, no oil products" for their (optional) minis.
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Jan 25, 2022 18:22
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Crosspostin, cause more people should own Crokinole Mayday 2020 Crokinole Board is live and still only $99usd Wave 1 ships in June!
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Jan 25, 2022 18:38
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Infinitum posted:Crosspostin, cause more people should own Crokinole Saw this, does a $100 board hold up or is it better to get a higher-end one from elsewhere?
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Jan 25, 2022 19:07
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It will likely need to be waxed once it arrives, but it is a full sized tournament legal board and I've had no issues with mine. The 'higher end' boards are likely also going to still be MDF under the wooden veneer, like this is, and once you look at proper hardwood boards you are entering $500+ territory. Mayday's board represents probably the best value for money price point for an entry level Crokinole board. Please be aware of shipping costs to your respective countries, as it is potentially quite expensive. Edit: This is the wax you want. 
Infinitum fucked around with this message at 19:22 on Jan 25, 2022 |
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Jan 25, 2022 19:18
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It's so interesting seeing Crokinole chat from people outside of Canada/Southern Ontario because every house has probably has an old board somewhere. I grew up playing on the one my grandparents had and just enjoyed flicking the wooden discs around and now it's behind the couch at the cottage. I actually got to chat with Tracey a couple of weeks ago and he mentioned that when SU&SD did their video his business just rocketed by 3 or 4x. It really blows my mind that the game has sort of exploded all over the world to the extent that people are hyped for fresh runs. My wife's family are sharks and I do not love the game but will politely be the fourth and act as an anchor for the poor bastard I'm partnered with.
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Jan 25, 2022 19:28
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Helps that it's easily the best pure dexterity games ever made.
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Jan 25, 2022 19:47
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FulsomFrank posted:It's so interesting seeing Crokinole chat from people outside of Canada/Southern Ontario because every house has probably has an old board somewhere I grew up with a Carrom board and I don't see the big deal either
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Jan 25, 2022 19:53
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It's fine but kinda one dimensional compared to similar. High level play is kinda boring in the way that bowling is.
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Jan 25, 2022 19:58
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What's a better dexterity game?
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Jan 25, 2022 20:50
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Impermanent posted:What's a better dexterity game? NPI just did a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0aHYYpPolo
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Jan 25, 2022 21:08
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Impermanent posted:What's a better dexterity game? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WOOw2yWMSfk
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Jan 25, 2022 21:17
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I would love to get a Crokinole board some day. Never had the chance to play, I only know it by reputation, so spending that much money could be a tough ask, but it just seems dope and chill. Just don't got the space for now, and even if I wanted to give Mayday money, I think it'd be worth paying more for something truly nice. Like, I could just as easily get a secondhand copy of Ascending Empires if I want a slightly janky flicking experience.
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Jan 25, 2022 21:37
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idk if anyone else listened to it but the SUSD podcast episode that was just a 90 minute chat between Quins and Rodney Smith was an absolute delight
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Jan 25, 2022 21:47
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Mayveena posted:NPI just did a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0aHYYpPolo I like NPI, and this is a good video, but it's more focused than just "what's the best dexterity game". Other than the Carrooka mention it's pretty specifically focused on an air hockey replacement. I have Klask and Crokinole (and a few others) but they're very different games. The real-time vs turn based aspect makes a huge difference. It's like comparing starcraft and civilization, or halo and x-com. Just like a lot of us have multiple worker placement, drafting, deckbuilding, auction, dudes on a map, or whatever genre games in our collections, I think there's plenty of room to have multiple dexterity games.
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Jan 25, 2022 21:49
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it's not that there are better pure dexterity games than Crokinole, but that pure dexterity games are a shallow pool for me I prefer games with an element of randomness, such that even a highly skilled player has to react/hope semi-regularly
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Jan 25, 2022 21:58
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Junk Art is tons of fun. Men at Work is brutally difficult (but still fun). Not sure if Rhino Hero falls into this category but it's really cute and kids would love it. I've got Meeple Circus but haven't played it yet.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:03
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I was hoping to have a discussion with potatocubed but he's busy so you just get me, today. My moderator opinion is that whatever you may feel about PRADA's long-term tenor of posting, his post about crypto was fine. Yeah crypto and blockchain are related but not synonymous concepts. The company I work for has a blockchain product, it's not crypto and it doesn't run on proof-of-work or waste lots of electricity to do transactions: it's just an open accumulative ledger that can be run on a server and authenticated by any user. Wasteful proof-of-work transactions are common but not required aspects of a blockchain implementation. As far as I know, we have not yet heard what exact form Kickstarter intends to roll out what they announced, and until we do, I think it's fair for someone - even someone named PRADA SLUT - to state factually correct information when people are accusing kickstarter of "crypto poo poo" in an inaccurate way. There's plenty of grounds for criticism and I'm not outlawing that, here or in the kickstarter thread or (especially appropriate) the industry thread. Those threads are probably better suited to longer discussions about kickstarter. Please try to be civil regardless. Report posts that break rules and cut back on the posting about posters. We are not threadbanning users without a lot of warning and clear communication about what is unacceptable and we are nowhere near that in this case. --- Re: plastics, that's another area where I hope folks can have a reasonable discussion without being asses to each other? I agree with the posters who pointed out that yeah our toys that use plastic could use other materials, that using materials in general is problematic, and that we waste megatons of plastic in other areas of life that probably far outweigh the relatively small amount of plastic we're using in games. But that's just, like, my opinion, man.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:13
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What about the following troll posts rubbing it in our face that he's allowed to poo poo post? Exactly how many people here have to ask that he be thread banned before it's a serious enough issue for you to do something? PRADA SLUT posted:Furthermore, I’m tired of charades. Don’t people know the calories they expend gesticulating and yelling are creating negative value equivalent to the cost of consumption? PRADA SLUT posted:I hope Kickstarter switches to an all-Bitcoin model so the $300 all-in pledges only cost about $25 by the time the funding period ends. That's not "stating factually correct information" that's being a deliberate poo poo heel, with a whole trail of poo poo left before.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:24
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Leperflesh posted:I was hoping to have a discussion with potatocubed but he's busy so you just get me, today. My moderator opinion is that whatever you may feel about PRADA's long-term tenor of posting, his post about crypto was fine. Thank you for your valuable opinion on the topic of that Prada post as an isolated text. I feel the need to point out tho: literally no-one was complaining about that Prada post as an isolated text. Why are you derailing the conversation?
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Jan 25, 2022 22:27
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Leperflesh posted:We are not threadbanning users without a lot of warning and clear communication about what is unacceptable and we are nowhere near that in this case. Why are you even a mod if you're not going to remove toxic members of a community? Like what is your role here besides writing lots of  and  arguments?
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Jan 25, 2022 22:29
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