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Dave Syndrome posted:Deep Space Nine was always Star Trek's grubby cousin, and I loved that. Not "here's the problem of the week, we solved it, now we'll be on our way", but "here's an unsolvable dilemma, we'll have to compromise our lofty ideals in order to somehow get through it, and in about five episodes our decision is gonna bite us in the rear end". DS9 was Trek in name only. Most of the show was basically "the Federation doesn't work" from season 3 onwards. It was a fascinating approach at the time and has I think solidified DS9 as the best series of that Era. TNG is classic almost trying to re-capture the TOS feel, Voyager is a bit of a mess, and ENT was a weird experiment to avoid going too long without a Star Trek show on the airwaves.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:35
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My takeaway from the last season of B99 was that Michael Schur and his production company also did The Good Place and they found it easier to believably reform Heaven and Hell than the NYPD Of course, it's not like you get actual demons or angels out there loving up people's lives every day to make quota.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:42
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There's a late season episode of DS9 where Sisko recounts how he was Detective No. 27 has a new favorite as of 00:18 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 00:11
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Detective No. 27 posted:There's a late season episode of DS9 where Sisko recounts how he was implicit in a murder to get the Romulans into the Dominion War and it ends with him saying "...and I'd do it again." DS9 loving rules. I feel like the writers really built up In the Pale Moonlight, but it's neither the first nor the last time we see Sisko go to extreme, deadly measures to get his way.
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Jan 26, 2022 00:13
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People talk about how dark and cynical DS9 is but I just wanna mention that it is still fundamentally optimistic about human nature and the power of faith and love. It just doesn't ignore the dark side of those things either. It's dark and cynical compared with TNG, for sure, I'm not arguing that. But it's not a depressing show to watch, it won't make you sad overall, it doesn't hate people the way some 'dark' shows hate people. I dunno it's my favourite TV show of all time and I am full of feelings about it.
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Jan 26, 2022 00:18
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HopperUK posted:People talk about how dark and cynical DS9 is but I just wanna mention that it is still fundamentally optimistic about human nature and the power of faith and love. It just doesn't ignore the dark side of those things either. It's dark and cynical compared with TNG, for sure, I'm not arguing that. But it's not a depressing show to watch, it won't make you sad overall, it doesn't hate people the way some 'dark' shows hate people. Oh absolutely. Something like Vic Fontaine would be a shark jumping character introduction in pretty much any other show but he just worked.
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Jan 26, 2022 00:27
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I feel like the writers really built up In the Pale Moonlight, but it's neither the first nor the last time we see Sisko go to extreme, deadly measures to get his way. Yeah, the season before he threatens to murder a shitload of people unless Eddington gives himself up.
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Jan 26, 2022 00:49
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HopperUK posted:. But it's not a depressing show to watch, it won't make you sad overall, it doesn't hate people the way some 'dark' shows hate people. O’Brien?!?
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Jan 26, 2022 02:50
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So Disney is making a live action Snow White. Somehow thought they already had, but whatever. So Peter Dinklage of Tyrion Lannister fame has been blasting them for a few days. And it has me wondering if Disney really dares to do a live action Hunchback of Notre Dame or Pocahontas. I can't imagine either of those will be easy. poo poo, for the live action Aristocats they just need to cut the racist cat gang and call it a day. I mean, I do see where Dinklage is coming from, but aren't the dwarves in Lord of the Rings and Snow White clearly not human?
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Jan 26, 2022 04:10
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Well which do you think came first? Fairy tales about dwarves or people born with under performing endocrine systems? These stories weren't created in a vacuum. Stories of little bands dwarves living happily in the forests can probably be traced back to the practice of leaving children born with the condition in the forest. Macdeo Lurjtux has a new favorite as of 04:50 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 04:44
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I'm on Dinklage's side but I could have come up with "a commune of very short magical men" without the real life existence of dwarfism 
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Jan 26, 2022 04:48
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Dinklage directly calling out Disney on being progressive in areas where it's good pr and when there is a profit motive is pretty great. Not so great, people saying Peter is only upset cause he wasn't considered for the cast or something. Wonder if they'll go the Willy Wonka route, have the seven dwarves and also they're cgi to deprive actors of work. Double whammy.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:06
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His entire role in Elf is to have dwarfism be the punchline for Will Farrell’s character thinking Dinklage is an angry elf. I’m not sure how seriously I take his criticism of a random fairytale. It’s definitely dependent on Disney’s execution and use in the movie (e.g. Wizard of Oz vs. LOTR) and not just the existence of the movie.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:11
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Nottherealaborn posted:His entire role in Elf is to have dwarfism be the punchline for Will Farrell’s character thinking Dinklage is an angry elf. I’m not sure how seriously I take his criticism of a random fairytale. It’s definitely dependent on Disney’s execution and use in the movie (e.g. Wizard of Oz vs. LOTR) and not just the existence of the movie. Oh, you're saying an actor with dwarfism had to make do with roles which featured it strongly and is now speaking up when he's gathered enough clout to do so? How suspicious. 
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Jan 26, 2022 05:15
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Nottherealaborn posted:His entire role in Elf is to have dwarfism be the punchline for Will Farrell’s character thinking Dinklage is an angry elf. I’m not sure how seriously I take his criticism of a random fairytale. It’s definitely dependent on Disney’s execution and use in the movie (e.g. Wizard of Oz vs. LOTR) and not just the existence of the movie. This is pretty hosed up given that he turned down tons of jobs to avoid perpetuating the dwarf stereotypes and was basically a non entity until an indie film took a huge risk to cast him as a leading man.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:25
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Cowslips Warren posted:So Disney is making a live action Snow White. Somehow thought they already had, but whatever. You might be thinking of Mirror Mirror, which was marketed to look like a Disney movie but wasn't. The cover art looks like a palette swap of The Princess Diaries, but it looks like Relativity media released it. It came out at about the same time as the cursed Snow White and the Huntsman, which was released by Universal.
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Jan 26, 2022 05:36
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Nottherealaborn posted:His entire role in Elf is to have dwarfism be the punchline for Will Farrell’s character thinking Dinklage is an angry elf. I’m not sure how seriously I take his criticism of a random fairytale. It’s definitely dependent on Disney’s execution and use in the movie (e.g. Wizard of Oz vs. LOTR) and not just the existence of the movie. You... you mean like how in Elf Dinklage's character is like the top children's author, everyone is mortified by Buddy's ignorant behaviour, and gets his rear end beaten by Dinklage? It's a bit simple, but it sends a pretty consistent message with his other roles
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Jan 26, 2022 05:55
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Dirt Road Junglist posted:You might be thinking of Mirror Mirror, which was marketed to look like a Disney movie but wasn't. The cover art looks like a palette swap of The Princess Diaries, but it looks like Relativity media released it. Mirror mirror, if it was the one I was thinking of, was a weird adaption as Sigourney Weaver playing the Wicked Queen as a schizophrenic who was hearing voices via her mirror was an interesting take but the dwarves I remember being weirdly rapey when they first met Snow White. Been a long time since I've watched it though.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:17
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Speaking of copaganda, it's absent in the Perry Mason series. Tragg is the lone good cop. All the others are either corrupt of woefully incompetent, right up to the district attorney. It's even worse in his Cool & Lam series. There's a whole story about cops running an organized crime ring,
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Jan 26, 2022 06:21
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MariusLecter posted:Wonder if they'll go the Willy Wonka route, have the seven dwarves and also they're cgi to deprive actors of work. Double whammy.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:22
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the Spain Virus posted:Speaking of copaganda, it's absent in the Perry Mason series. Tragg is the lone good cop. All the others are either corrupt of woefully incompetent, right up to the district attorney. It's even worse in his Cool & Lam series. There's a whole story about cops running an organized crime ring, Huh, kind of interesting. Wonder when the full throated cop worship started in media. Feel like Hill Street Blues was probably the start of the trend despite not showing cops in a glowing light and every successive attempt to make a cop drama leaned more into the "bad things for good reasons" with every iteration. Don't think cops were highly regarded in the 50s and 60s, and the massive ramp in crime in the 70s and 80s probably led to more people having contempt for the useless police at the time.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:29
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BioEnchanted posted:Mirror mirror, if it was the one I was thinking of, was a weird adaption as Sigourney Weaver playing the Wicked Queen as a schizophrenic who was hearing voices via her mirror was an interesting take but the dwarves I remember being weirdly rapey when they first met Snow White. Been a long time since I've watched it though. That one’s apparently Snow White: A Tale of Terror from 1997. Mirror Mirror is from 2012, stars Julia Roberts and Lily Collins, and is directed by Tarsem. It has some real weird tonal dissonance, but also some stunning Tarsem visuals. Worth a watch just for the spectacle (and do try to track down the version with the full Bollywood ending if you can).
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Jan 26, 2022 06:57
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Douche Wolf 89 posted:You... you mean like how in Elf Dinklage's character is like the top children's author, everyone is mortified by Buddy's ignorant behaviour, and gets his rear end beaten by Dinklage? It's a bit simple, but it sends a pretty consistent message with his other roles I didn't realise this was Dinklage until very recently, but I definitely remembered the scene: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVBclV5ps2U
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Jan 26, 2022 07:28
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pentyne posted:Huh, kind of interesting. Wonder when the full throated cop worship started in media. Feel like Hill Street Blues was probably the start of the trend despite not showing cops in a glowing light and every successive attempt to make a cop drama leaned more into the "bad things for good reasons" with every iteration. I think the public perception of cops VS how media presents them has always been at odds with one another.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:29
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Media famously never featured the police as protagonists until the 1980s
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Jan 26, 2022 08:10
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Media is owned by the rich who absolutely love the police.
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Jan 26, 2022 08:25
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Burkion posted:I think the public perception of cops VS how media presents them has always been at odds with one another. The CNN series of the Decades talked about HSB as being some radical innovative cop drama that tried to make the cops feel like real people but also was the "cops do bad things but its because they care so much" which followed into NYPD Blue (also by Steven Bochco) which was more of the same only Dennis Franz was an alcoholic rear end in a top hat but still a "good" cop (I think?) and before it ended The Shield started up in 2002 which was straight up "these cops are murderers and drug dealers" but still had a heavy touch of hero worship about them. Going from 1980 to 2020 for cop shows has led to a pretty stark divide between something like Southland (A+ loving great show) and Blue Bloods (they're the most noble of noble selfless heroes holding the line against anarchy)
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Jan 26, 2022 08:29
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Miami Vice was insane, one episode there's some white college kid mixed up in dealing drugs, and Tubbs explicitly states he finds that more important to fix than someone "with no future". Episodes often end in a chase if the suspect is white and a balls to the wall, machine gun and uzi shootout with "the Colombians"
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Jan 26, 2022 08:31
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pentyne posted:Huh, kind of interesting. Wonder when the full throated cop worship started in media. Feel like Hill Street Blues was probably the start of the trend despite not showing cops in a glowing light and every successive attempt to make a cop drama leaned more into the "bad things for good reasons" with every iteration. Lmao. Andy Griffith was America's favorite cop. Hell, you had Adam 12, Dragnet, CHiPs, Hawaii Five-O. Plenty of popular cop shut in the 50/60s/70s.
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Jan 26, 2022 08:35
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Toshimo posted:Lmao. Andy Griffith was America's favorite cop. Yeah I'm thinking more of the shows that were basically portraying the rampant violent civil rights abuses as a good & necessary thing and pretending like the TV cops felt bad they had to do it but always justified in the end. A lot of civil rights weren't even recognized as a thing until the late 60s. Gideon v Wainwright was 1963 and Miranda was '66
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Jan 26, 2022 08:43
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pentyne posted:Huh, kind of interesting. Wonder when the full throated cop worship started in media. Feel like Hill Street Blues was probably the start of the trend despite not showing cops in a glowing light and every successive attempt to make a cop drama leaned more into the "bad things for good reasons" with every iteration. IIRC, the old Dick Tracy comics had Dick lamenting how all of the new rules of the time were making it harder for cops to do their job and let criminals walk away scot free.
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Jan 26, 2022 09:49
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the_steve posted:I do remember the Ben Grimm thing though. He was a little bit upset that he was forcibly pulled from Literal Heaven without anyone actually asking him if he wanted to come back to life. As I recall it was more than that: having been dead at the time he hadn't been part of the FF's divestment, so he still had a quarter share in all Reed's work and was thus one of the richest men in the world. It didn't last, but it did give us the classic moment where Ben asks his secretary for Bill Gates's fax number and a moment alone with the photocopier. The next panel is Bill Gates looking at a fax and saying "I don't understand. Why would Ben Grimm fax me a photo of the Grand Canyon?"
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Jan 26, 2022 10:31
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Dinklage in Days of Future Past was a fun stealth joke.
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Jan 26, 2022 12:48
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Foxfire_ posted:Shouldn't they be either cgi'ed or prosthetic'ed regardless of who plays/mocaps them? They're supposed to be magical forest creatures, not little people. "Snow White and the Seven Gnomes" vs "Snow White and the Seven People with Achondroplasia" They did that with Snow White and the Huntsman to cringe reactions, especially from dwarf actors who threatened to have a march on the studio. Similar to the reaction to the updated Willy Wonka using CGI instead of actors. Being magical forest creatures doesn't erase that they're based on people with dwarfism. It's a dilemma and one where you can cut both ways by being double wrong in doing the stereotype of dwarfism and then cutting out the real people being portrayed. Macdeo Lurjtux posted:Well which do you think came first? Fairy tales about dwarves or people born with under performing endocrine systems? All the abuse Dinklage suffers from his family on GoT is rough. It's especially spelled out that his father didn't just do the baby abandoning cause of their family codes of honor and literally nothing else. e; Not saying it's aged poorly. His character drama going through all that was very compelling.
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Jan 26, 2022 13:00
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MariusLecter posted:They did that with Snow White and the Huntsman to cringe reactions, especially from dwarf actors who threatened to have a march on the studio. Similar to the reaction to the updated Willy Wonka using CGI instead of actors. Snow White and the Huntsman basically took the worst path by using real little people actors and just replacing their heads with famous actors. I have no clue how that got passed the planning stage. It also looked absolutely terrible.
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Jan 26, 2022 13:21
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Was there any complaints or protests about Lord of the Rings? Kind of a funny once there since you've got dwarves and hobbits who are both little people of different kinds.
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Jan 26, 2022 13:56
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HopperUK posted:People talk about how dark and cynical DS9 is but I just wanna mention that it is still fundamentally optimistic about human nature and the power of faith and love. It just doesn't ignore the dark side of those things either. It's dark and cynical compared with TNG, for sure, I'm not arguing that. But it's not a depressing show to watch, it won't make you sad overall, it doesn't hate people the way some 'dark' shows hate people. Totally with you there. DS9 is a full deconstruction and reconstruction of Gene Roddenberry's vision -- with the reconstruction being the ultimate aim of the whole thing. But as is always the case with deconstruction, a lot of people don't give it the chance to play out to the end and find that the core is still there, and in fact stronger than ever because of it. Yes, there's a big bloody war at the climax of the series and the Federation gets their hands dirty; but ultimately, the Federation's presence in the Alpha quadrant really does seem to be the thing that keeps it from suffering the same fate as the Gamma quadrant. They ultimately win the day through the force of their ideals, even when they themselves don't always live up to them. Cardassia's citizens revolt against fascism after it fails them, and the Dominion surrenders willingly, rather than just being blowed up by the good guys. In the end, it's Trek through and through. But it's an honest and messy version of it. Of course, there are always going to be people who insist that the Federation won because they betrayed their ideals rather than despite it -- either as a criticism or as a proof text. I'm not sure how to counter that, other than that I really think it's not a good reading of the show, and seems to ignore a lot of subtext and dialog in favor of just recounting the plot events. Again, this makes it a little messier than a simple morality play where the good guys only do good things and are rewarded, but I think it's necessary. Otherwise basically we're all screwed because we've all messed up. Gordon Shumway posted:Yeah, the season before he threatens to murder a shitload of people unless Eddington gives himself up. This is very frequently misremembered. What he actually does is render a planet uninhabitable for humans specifically, forcing them to leave -- which is still pretty severe, but nobody was going to straight-up die from it. (Although it's a bit simplistic, since surely there might be side effects for at least a few people... But you know how it is with sci-fi and planets basically being equivalent to small towns.) Nottherealaborn posted:His entire role in Elf is to have dwarfism be the punchline for Will Farrell’s character thinking Dinklage is an angry elf. I’m not sure how seriously I take his criticism of a random fairytale. My guess is you should not in fact take it seriously. I can't be bothered / don't have access to listen to the original interview, but I saw the same article (probably) and I smell clickbait. The quotes from him definitely sound like he's kind of doing a bit, in a way that wouldn't come across without hearing his tone of voice. Similar to the recent thing with John Stewart discussing antisemitism in Harry Potter. (Not that there aren't valid discussions to be had about both of these things, but the quotes sounded so much more humorless and condemning in print.) Sir Lemming has a new favorite as of 14:07 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 13:59
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the_steve posted:IIRC, the old Dick Tracy comics had Dick lamenting how all of the new rules of the time were making it harder for cops to do their job and let criminals walk away scot free. In an old time-y radio podcast I listen to, there was an episode of Dragnet that derided Miranda rights.
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Jan 26, 2022 14:14
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Dragnet was such a successful piece of propaganda on the radio and on tv that people thought Jack Webb worked for the lapd.
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Jan 26, 2022 14:16
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Jesus Christ, I skipped six hundred pages and you're still talking about Star Trek?
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