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Booky posted:endorphs earlier comments got me to thinkin and now im wondering if removing corrin would actually make fates better??? like just hit backspace and make uhh i dunno xander or azura or smth the protag fates is just a mess top to bottom. they literally said they made it knowing it needed to be successful but having zero idea why awakening sold well. so they just made it Awakening But More, and the corrin worship is part of that - please buy our game and all the DLC, look how much everyone loves you.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:08
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To be fair, series like Persona and Mass Effect have gotten very big on the back of everyone loving the main character for no apparent reason.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:10
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persona and mass effect also suffer from issues relating to that but its a much easier pill to swallow when its like 6 or 7 characters and not 50.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:11
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Death to player avatars imo.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:12
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i think they can work but you need an actual angle and idea on them not just Because.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:14
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I mean to be fair to Persona they do give the PCs the outline of a character through their dialogue choices. Makoto is an apathetic emo teen, Yu is mature and cool-headed, and Akira is a hammy troll.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:15
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Junpei posted:I mean to be fair to Persona they do give the PCs the outline of a character through their dialogue choices. Makoto is an apathetic emo teen, Yu is mature and cool-headed, and Akira is a hammy troll. Yu is a jokey weirdo that no one has a real bead on.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:25
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Robin was a fully realized character, like they did it right and then never did it again for a bizarre reason
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Jan 26, 2022 06:26
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i think persona almost gives you character outlines but it kinda only ends up making the fact that they're all mute, even more annoying. that poo poo should've been gone by persona 2
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Jan 26, 2022 06:30
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p2 at least gives extra personalities over the 2 games+supplementary stuff for each protag, u don't really get that in p1 or the mainline smts it'd be cool af to not have silent protags in persona/smt anymore tbh
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Jan 26, 2022 06:33
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i think it works, okay enough in digital devil saga at least. just cause the way dds approaches its character writing is, very extra and wild
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Jan 26, 2022 06:36
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I mean I thought it was easy to grasp that people in the Junkyard start off emotionless, awake to one specific emotion when their eyes flash and get color, and slowly expand out from that central emotion (disgust for Argilla, anger for Heat, joy for Cielo, etc.)
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Jan 26, 2022 06:37
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ZenMasterBullshit posted:Yu is a jokey weirdo that no one has a real bead on. The 4 types of silent protagonist personality are 'emotionless', 'weirdo', 'cool' and 'Mario'.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:41
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Tae posted:Robin was a fully realized character, like they did it right and then never did it again for a bizarre reason
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Jan 26, 2022 06:42
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SyntheticPolygon posted:The 4 types of silent protagonist personality are 'emotionless', 'weirdo', 'cool' and 'Mario'. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=65uNCLBTje0
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Jan 26, 2022 06:58
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The only silent protagonists I can think of that actually work are like, Omori? And the Bioshock protag if they count? Otherwise you have a character in your story who acts and says very little but is somehow the center of everything happening in the plot, and everyone else had to do extra work out of any story scene, forced to bounce off a mostly silent person. Those two also only worked for me because their being a silent protag is part of the story and its themes, and they're not really the "hero", and that's probably the only way you can make silent protags work. Otherwise I can't think of other RPGs whose story is enhanced by having one; they kinda make the story worse by default. (Yes 3H tried to do a similar thing with Byleth, but it fell short because again there was too much of "silent character is inexplicably the center of everyone's attention" happening.)
blizzardvizard fucked around with this message at 07:02 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 07:00
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I think there's value in the game saying "Cordelia is the friend of You, the player", even if it's self-indulgent. self-indulgence is fine, sometimes
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Jan 26, 2022 07:02
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I don't think that has value. I think it's a failure of writing if they can't invoke player empathy without that.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:12
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it's not about empathy per se, it's about attachment. Evoking the feeling of "this character is my friend" is very different from the feeling of "I enjoy reading this character's friendship with this other character"
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Jan 26, 2022 07:14
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Clarste posted:I don't think that has value. I think it's a failure of writing if they can't invoke player empathy without that. I think it does have value. People enjoy inserting their little creation into a story. Even if that creation is mostly just how you're choosing to interact with the characters and what your head canon is for how the voiceless PC is responding to stuff.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:15
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I mean I think Robin totally works as a protagonist, they're meant to be a self-insert but they also have their own defined voices. I think players can still project onto your protagonists well enough without making them silent.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:25
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the silent protag just feels awkward in rpgs because they tend to be ploty games, but you don't see this compliant as often like games of other genres that have silent player characters but are less about plot and specifically about interacting with other characters, and nobody would try to call that a failure of writing in those cases
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Jan 26, 2022 07:26
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So I am playing Deus Ex Invisible War and I went to seduce the Minister dude in the bar like I did 19 years ago until I realized something. The Minister is gay and the last time I played I chose dude Alex. This time I am playing girl Alex. Sure enough he told me to gently caress off so now I have to actually sneak into his penthouse. I can't be his chamberboy! This game also has a lot of unique voicelines. It also has a nightclub full of...six people.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:27
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Speaking of silent protagonists, it was weird as hell when Another Eden gave Serge from Chrono Cross a voice and speaking lines. I mean they seemed to fit him okay, but it was still weird.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:29
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I wish Atlus made more games like DDS and Riadou and less games literally everything else, but I've wrung this stone so hard I think I might see blood.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:34
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More games with skill trees and real time combat?
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Jan 26, 2022 07:36
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The first DDS was so good. It is definitely in my top 5 JRPGs.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:41
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Junpei posted:More games with skill trees and real time combat? Honestly, I'd just prefer there be no demon collecting. Raidou gets a pass for me for no adequately articulatable reason.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:41
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Mercenaries Rebirth report: I've done 2 missions against human enemies. The second round of thieves was pretty manageable, since I'd fought three side battles and upgraded my greatsworder and paladin to bronze armor. But then we got to our first fight against other mercs, and it again Got Real. Mid-fight reinforcements, enemy clerics tossing shield buffs and big heals, enemy snipers with poison guns, and some kinda badass ninja who could chuck very damaging knives and charge up for super attacks. For the first time, one of my people went down, and I barely managed to rez them with a Soul Stone before their death clock finished ticking down. The mid-fight reinforcements came without warning, and really sold the feeling that I was up against a different calibur of enemy. I have learned that my cleric's shield buff is a really big deal, combined with aggro management skills. Put that shield on the greatsworder, and he can soak 3 or 4 hits for only half his health. Tanking is a pretty important party role, and the shield mitigates the greatsworder's weakness to magic. Again, I found myself being punished for splitting off people to grab treasure hidden in the map corners, but I felt that I was in a difficulty sweet spot. This was the first time I got to deploy my mage, and he highlighted an interesting aspect of the skills. When you use an active skill, you choose which level of the ones you've unlocked to activate. That is, I have Fireball unlocked to 4, so I could cast a lvl1, lvl2, lvl3, or lvl4 flame bolt with my wizard's action. This scales up the MP cost, but improves range and damage. The same is true of other skills, like Steal and Cure (each higher level of Cure allows it to remove an additional type of status effect). Feels kinda janky, but there's also kind of an interesting trade-off where you try to figure out how little MP you can spend and still guarantee a kill. Soon I'll be unlocking new jobs as my characters reach level 10. I don't think I can see what those jobs actually offer for skills until I buy them, though. In general, it feels like there's more hidden information from the player than I usually see in tactical RPGs. I cannot see an option to open an info box for enemies with detailed info on stats, gear, and skills. That definitely adds tension, but I do feel like it might be more satisfying overall to have that option even if they keep the ??? for HP that I just saw on the ninja boss and obscure some info. Story-wise, these rival mercs are connected to our sword dude's tragic past. Apparently the old Wild Lynx mercs mostly got killed off, and the edgelord in charge of our rivals is a survivor who is real mad at our sword dude for being a merc with principles and standards. We're also getting some implications that the princess has some connection with our sword dude's dead lady friend, who he was visiting the grave of at the beginning of the story. They look similar, and the princess inexplicably picked the same name for our new band. Some kind of anime plot is rising out of the murk, but the details remain elusive. Verdict is still the same. Fun, but not a game changer, a little janky. Still, I'm seeing the game do a few new things now, and it's getting me even more hyped for Triangle Strategy coming out later on.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:44
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Barudak posted:Honestly, I'd just prefer there be no demon collecting. Raidou gets a pass for me for no adequately articulatable reason. perhaps you could just play the other RPGs in the world that aren't mon games, instead of the like three series that are
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Jan 26, 2022 07:45
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the second dds is better than the first one just for how insane the party dialog gets in the final dungeon when everyone has to start thinking about gender out of nowhereDisposable Scud posted:So I am playing Deus Ex Invisible War and I went to seduce the Minister dude in the bar like I did 19 years ago until I realized something. The Minister is gay and the last time I played I chose dude Alex. This time I am playing girl Alex. Sure enough he told me to gently caress off so now I have to actually sneak into his penthouse. I can't be his chamberboy! i'm disappoitned that people made a female jc mod for deus ex 1 and then decided... to remove the lady who hits on you... because it was immersion breaking...??? no i want more of that why are you taking it away
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Jan 26, 2022 07:46
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atlus should spend more times making games like *looking at wikipedia page* my disney kitchen and friday the 13th
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Jan 26, 2022 07:48
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cheetah7071 posted:perhaps you could just play the other RPGs in the world that aren't mon games, instead of the like three series that are I do, but I really liked DDS and want another one. Disposable Scud posted:So I am playing Deus Ex Invisible War and I went to seduce the Minister dude in the bar like I did 19 years ago until I realized something. The Minister is gay and the last time I played I chose dude Alex. This time I am playing girl Alex. Sure enough he told me to gently caress off so now I have to actually sneak into his penthouse. I can't be his chamberboy! When your secret ending has a better club than the club in your game.
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Jan 26, 2022 07:49
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also the part of dds2 where you fight one of the comic relief bad guy trio and he's like "mwahaha... i have eaten my friends and absorbed their power!!!" and then after you beat him your party gives him a solemn lecture about how now that he has eaten his friends he can never bring them back and they will not kill him because they want him to live the rest of his life shouldering the burden of the crime he's committed by betraying those who trusted him and thinking about what he can do with that life after taking theirs away, is one of the most insane and best moments in any jrpg ever made man the writing in dds is awesome
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Jan 26, 2022 07:52
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also love how the resolution to heat's stuff is entirely decided by whether you play into the idea that he and serph are having a love triangle, or instead saying "i love you heat... because we... are comrades..."
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Jan 26, 2022 07:54
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Snooze Cruise posted:the silent protag just feels awkward in rpgs because they tend to be ploty games, but you don't see this compliant as often like games of other genres that have silent player characters but are less about plot and specifically about interacting with other characters, and nobody would try to call that a failure of writing in those cases A lot of other genres have mostly moved away from silent protagonist because it doesn't benefit them and the few that haven't get some complaints like Metro Exodus. I might be wrong since there are a lot of modern games I've missed, but my impression is that it's mostly legacy series or a few Japanese rpgs( which might also be for legacy reasons)that still do the silent protagonist thing. Outside of deliberate throwbacks to the eras where it was more common of course. It's one of the things I disliked about Nioh 2 ,where they decided that character customization had to be at the cost of character voice, they really could have afforded a few different voice actors to voice the character in the cutscene and it really wouldn't make any real difference in the narrative.
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Jan 26, 2022 08:06
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I am quite enjoying my time with IW so far. This coffehouse war is ridiculous and I think I just got tired of the other two sequels being "AUGMENTATION" all the time.
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Jan 26, 2022 08:08
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Hel posted:A lot of other genres have mostly moved away from silent protagonist because it doesn't benefit them and the few that haven't get some complaints like Metro Exodus. strange horticulture just came out
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Jan 26, 2022 08:18
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invisible war is Fine until you hit the... antarctica? area and they make you repeat the same levels but now there's power armor guys everywhere and you can't knock them out and the only decent weapon against them is the railgun which completely nulls nonlethal playthroughs and forces you into a much narrower set of viable playstyles and they stop putting any real alternate paths in areas and instead force you out into wide open spaces and narrow corridors with enemies you physically can't avoid bumping into and aaaaaaaaaaa i loving hate the back half of invisible war i replayed thief 3 recently and what i learned from replaying thief 3, is that theif 3, was also way worse than i remembered and no the problem with late ion storm was not them dumbing things down it was that their level design loving sucked poo poo and got worse the later into their games you got until it just stopped functioning on a basic loving level why did you design an open world that keeps bodies consistent in a game with load zones and stupid guard ai that lingers in one spot forever and some load zones deposit you directly in front of guards in broad daylight adn there are no alternate paths so you are physically unable to avoid being spotted oh my god who was designing those games they suck so bad. why did they implement third person movement that takes priority over the first person camera so every time you turn around and start moving in a direction you begin movement in a direction that is different from where you were pushing and you clip into the environment constantly and climbing can break and make you climb through walls where you get trapped in an inescapable void because you've phased into the loving walls. what the gently caress. what the gently caress ion storm The Colonel fucked around with this message at 08:35 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 08:29
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I think I solved late game Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 the same way: ignore the enemies and just keep running , spamming grenades when necessary. Which sucks because as you say even if the start of the game works the late game just falls apart completely.
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Jan 26, 2022 08:38
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