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Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!

mobby_6kl posted:

I'm not saying Russia is involved in these protests but... They'd have to be stupid not to be. It's a great way to back up their claims about how everything sucks unlike in Russia.

That's exactly the logic Russia applies to its domestic protests. Must be Americans, they are exploiting our real issues to sow discord.

People protest, you know. And in Ukraine, thanks to two successful governmental changes through protest in the last 20 years, it's something people understandably rely on to try to get what they want in a country that is almost as mired with corruption as Russia (see recent Corruption Perception Index).

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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

cinci zoo sniper posted:

https://www.lsm.lv/raksts/zinas/arzemes/ukraina-zino-par-krievijas-veidotas-diversantu-grupas-likvidesanu.a440499/

Our media are reporting Ukrainian authorities claiming to have eliminated a diversion group working on series of attacks against cities’ infrastructure in border regions. Supposedly, two guys were recruiting Russian speakers with history of violent crime into fake security firms in Kharkiv and Zhytomyr.

Same event, I think:
https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristopherJM/status/1485953379671199747?cxt=HHwWhsC-wbqulZ8pAAAA

Tuna-Fish
Sep 13, 2017

Discendo Vox posted:

Eastern Europe: Olivier's offensive

Eastern Europe: The mayonnaise sphere of influence

Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

imho works better than either of those.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013





I think you’re right, indeed.

Gunthen
Apr 10, 2011

surf rock posted:

It seems like he's arguing, "China is the actual long-term threat to the American/EU global hegemony...

It's callous. But it's not wrong. Russia is not and has not been a peer rival to the American Empire since the collapse of the USSR. China however is a direct threat to American Hegemony, and will certainly eclipse it in the coming decades.

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth

Gunthen posted:

and will certainly eclipse it in the coming decades.

Not a certainty at all. China's demographic crisis + the extent to which China is vulnerable to climate catastrophe alone are enough to put this assertion very much in doubt.

Discendo Vox
Mar 21, 2013

We don't need to have that dialogue because it's obvious, trivial, and has already been had a thousand times.

Tuna-Fish posted:

Eastern Europe: Olivier's sphere of influence

imho works better than either of those.

w2g! I'm happy to be part of a long tradition of thread title names in here.

BoldFace
Feb 28, 2011
https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1486067716498808841

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013





https://www.reuters.com/article/ukraine-crisis-russia-gas-idUKKBN2JY17G

quote:

MOSCOW (Reuters) - Russia has been a reliable energy supplier to Europe even at difficult times in relations, Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov said on Monday, calling reports in British media that Moscow may cut supplies in case of sanctions “fake hysteria”.

Edit: Hot on heels:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/25/us-europe-russia-gas-supplies-energy

quote:


The US has helped prepare for the diversion of natural gas supplies from around the world to Europe in the event that the flow from Russia is cut, in an effort to blunt Vladimir Putin’s most powerful economic weapon.

As fears of an invasion of Ukraine have grown, US officials said on Tuesday that they had been negotiating with global suppliers, and they were now confident that Europe would not suffer from a sudden loss of energy for heating in the middle of winter.

“To ensure Europe is able to make it through the winter and spring we expect to be prepared to ensure alternative supplies covering a significant majority of the potential shortfall,” a senior official said.

The preparation for bulk gas supplies deliveries is part of a campaign by the US and its European allies to show a united and coherent front to Putin in the hope of deterring him from invading Ukraine.

cinci zoo sniper fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jan 25, 2022

Blut
Sep 11, 2009

if someone is in the bottom 10%~ of a guillotine

How are u posted:

Not a certainty at all. China's demographic crisis + the extent to which China is vulnerable to climate catastrophe alone are enough to put this assertion very much in doubt.

All the talk of a Chinese century seems to completely ignore this. By 2100 the Chinese population is projected to have shrunk by 26% compared to today, vs the US population increasing by 31%. With all the attendant economic issues of a rapidly aging population in China - worker:retired ratios, deflation etc

Thats going to put a pretty big dent in the Chinese economic catch-up. Theres a very real chance it manages to reach the demographic collapse stage of development thats now facing most of Europe before it gets rich.

Xarn
Jun 26, 2015
This is from few pages back, but in my specific social bubble, the opinions on Russians are mixed, mostly bad. The older people are still very much :argh: about 1968 and the subsequent occupation, for the younger ones their experience with people who are obviously Russian (as opposed to the guy who speaks local language without accent and lives here and is technically a Russian, but you can't tell without asking him, so why even think about it) are from the rich tourist kids causing poo poo in Prague (pre-covid).


Basically if you don't go out of your way to have your prejudices challenged, it is really easy to see the negative examples that confirm them. :shrug:

Regarde Aduck
Oct 19, 2012

c l o u d k i t t e n
Grimey Drawer

no funny business here

US proves once again that it cares about the people of Europe

Cugel the Clever
Apr 5, 2009
I LOVE AMERICA AND CAPITALISM DESPITE BEING POOR AS FUCK. I WILL NEVER RETIRE BUT HERE'S ANOTHER 200$ FOR UKRAINE, SLAVA

Regarde Aduck posted:

no funny business here
Geeze, I can't believe the West would threaten to cut off Russia from SWIFT unprovoked like that. Not surprising Russia would warn of retaliation. Does the West have any demands they're trying to achieve???

Paladinus
Jan 11, 2014

heyHEYYYY!!!
I promise to nuke America if Biden personally assassinates Putin. You've been warned, Joe.

Orthanc6
Nov 4, 2009

Paladinus posted:

I promise to nuke America if Biden personally assassinates Putin. You've been warned, Joe.

Putin's got dead hand connected to his vital signs alone. No other conditions are measured. As soon as he strokes out the planet's gone.

Yeah, wouldn't put it past him.

WAR CRIME GIGOLO
Oct 3, 2012

The Hague
tryna get me
for these glutes

I wonder where the US secured European gas from


Texas oilmen or shale boys?

Brogeoisie
Jan 12, 2005

"Look, I'm a private citizen," he said. "One thing that I don't have to do is sit here and open my kimono as it relates to how much money I make or didn't."

WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

I wonder where the US secured European gas from


Texas oilmen or shale boys?

There isn't any. It's a bluff. There is literally zero LNG spare capacity. It's also telling they duck Russia equally gigantic crude and oil products exports. They're terrified of oil and gas prices going up.

How are u
May 19, 2005

by Azathoth

Brogeoisie posted:

There isn't any. It's a bluff. There is literally zero LNG spare capacity. It's also telling they duck Russia equally gigantic crude and oil products exports. They're terrified of oil and gas prices going up.

Do you have source for this assertion?

e: not that I don't think that the US might not be able to cover 100% what the administration is saying they can cover, but "it's a bluff" and "there is literally zero" seem like they'd be pretty obvious and reported on.

How are u fucked around with this message at 02:17 on Jan 26, 2022

Grape
Nov 16, 2017

Happily shilling for China!

Blut posted:

All the talk of a Chinese century seems to completely ignore this. By 2100 the Chinese population is projected to have shrunk by 26% compared to today, vs the US population increasing by 31%. With all the attendant economic issues of a rapidly aging population in China - worker:retired ratios, deflation etc

Thats going to put a pretty big dent in the Chinese economic catch-up. Theres a very real chance it manages to reach the demographic collapse stage of development thats now facing most of Europe before it gets rich.

Xi Jinping's dumb rear end also introduced the fun element of succession instability when he got rid of term limits and turned himself into a strongman.

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Brogeoisie posted:

There isn't any. It's a bluff. There is literally zero LNG spare capacity. It's also telling they duck Russia equally gigantic crude and oil products exports. They're terrified of oil and gas prices going up.

I don't think that's true, especially since the US has been rapidly ramping up LNG capacity and export

https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/d...0.4%20Bcf%2Fd).

I have no doubt LNG exports are tight, but there is some capacity.

CommieGIR fucked around with this message at 02:50 on Jan 26, 2022

Grouchio
Aug 31, 2014

Orthanc6 posted:

Putin's got dead hand connected to his vital signs alone. No other conditions are measured. As soon as he strokes out the planet's gone.

Yeah, wouldn't put it past him.
Get off the clancy poo poo. Putin isn't taking the world with him. He wants a russia to still exist after him. He respects MAD. I doubt the Dead Hand still exists, if it ever was operational.

Willo567
Feb 5, 2015

Cheating helped me fail the test and stay on the show.

Grouchio posted:

Get off the clancy poo poo. Putin isn't taking the world with him. He wants a russia to still exist after him. He respects MAD. I doubt the Dead Hand still exists, if it ever was operational.

It was a joke Grouchio

Gunthen
Apr 10, 2011

How are u posted:

Not a certainty at all. China's demographic crisis + the extent to which China is vulnerable to climate catastrophe alone are enough to put this assertion very much in doubt.

America's going to be lucky if it hasn't fallen apart in 20 years bud.

Mr. Smile Face Hat
Sep 15, 2003

Praise be to China's Covid-Zero Policy

Gunthen posted:

America's going to be lucky if it hasn't fallen apart in 20 years bud.

China will whatabout itself to the top.

Orthanc6
Nov 4, 2009

Grouchio posted:

Get off the clancy poo poo. Putin isn't taking the world with him. He wants a russia to still exist after him. He respects MAD. I doubt the Dead Hand still exists, if it ever was operational.

I was being satirical, but apologies if it wasn't clear. The world has been real wacky these last few years so I get how a nonsensical suggestion could be mistaken as actual opinion. Dead hand is unnecessary, the nuclear triad exists to make sure retaliatory strikes are guaranteed, so anyone actually concerned about a Dead Hand setup is just riling up fear for something that is moot. M.A.D. has been fully established for decades, any other tech threatening to destroy the world is just superfluous.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:

I wonder where the US secured European gas from


Texas oilmen or shale boys?

It’s American and Qatari gas, but the supply is constrained due to existing contracts with Asia. Even if it wouldn’t, Russia gas exports into Europe exceed total LNG output or Qatar and U.S. combined by ~15%.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin
https://mobile.twitter.com/lotareva3/status/1485941471064866817

:stare:

Alchenar
Apr 9, 2008

This is an extremely good article if you want a single source explanation of how we got here, what's going on, and what might happen: What a Week of Talks Between Russia and the West Revealed

I really rate Dimitri Trenin, there's aren't many commentators around who have taught at military academies on both sides.

BoldFace
Feb 28, 2011
Notice how it doesn't say that he was killed by stray dogs. People getting drunk and dying after passing out in the snow is pretty common occurence in northern countries. Veterans being alcoholic/depressed/suicidal isn't that uncommon either.

nurmie
Dec 8, 2019

BoldFace posted:

Notice how it doesn't say that he was killed by stray dogs. People getting drunk and dying after passing out in the snow is pretty common occurence in northern countries. Veterans being alcoholic/depressed/suicidal isn't that uncommon either.

it doesn't say that he was killed by stray dogs because it's his daughter who was killed by stray dogs

google translate does have its limitations

re the news itself, это конечно пиздец полнейший

BoldFace
Feb 28, 2011

nurmie posted:

it doesn't say that he was killed by stray dogs because it's his daughter who was killed by stray dogs

google translate does have its limitations

re the news itself, это конечно пиздец полнейший

Well, drat. gently caress the dogs then, I guess.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Alchenar posted:

This is an extremely good article if you want a single source explanation of how we got here, what's going on, and what might happen: What a Week of Talks Between Russia and the West Revealed

I really rate Dimitri Trenin, there's aren't many commentators around who have taught at military academies on both sides.

That was a decent read, cheers. It has a Russian version as well, if fellow locals want to skim it quicker.

Somaen
Nov 19, 2007

by vyelkin

BoldFace posted:

Well, drat. gently caress the dogs then, I guess.

It's more of a systematic issue where everything outside 3-4 cities is a third world country without basic necessities for a civilized life. Recall the filming of Navalny's assassin's lovely tenement that he got from the state for his service

Edit: it's also probably why Putin will not let Ukraine develop economically by any means necessary - a free state with elections and an increasing quality of life like with Bulgaria or Romania would have Russians asking what's keeping Russia from having the same

Somaen fucked around with this message at 13:48 on Jan 26, 2022

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.
It’s for real you guys honest the Russians will invade at the exact time and place we expect them to

https://twitter.com/afp/status/1486351699237289990?s=21

CommieGIR
Aug 22, 2006

The blue glow is a feature, not a bug


Pillbug

Al-Saqr posted:

It’s for real you guys honest the Russians will invade at the exact time and place we expect them to

https://twitter.com/afp/status/1486351699237289990?s=21

They are basing the timeline on the fact that Russian forces are largely done positions and they already have people in Ukraine mapping terrain for manuevering.

steinrokkan
Apr 2, 2011



Soiled Meat

Al-Saqr posted:

It’s for real you guys honest the Russians will invade at the exact time and place we expect them to

As somebody who posts a lot about dictators, you probably shouldn't be surprised if they act without subtlety.

BoldFace
Feb 28, 2011
https://twitter.com/FirstSquawk/status/1486365717905932290

Al-Saqr
Nov 11, 2007

One Day I Will Return To Your Side.

steinrokkan posted:

As somebody who posts a lot about dictators, you probably shouldn't be surprised if they act without subtlety.

You're right. I'll just be really shocked if Putin does EXACTLY the thing everyone said he'll do weeks in advance, for example the Georgian war Russia caught Sakashvili by surprise. I dunno. It seems really odd to give your enemy so much time to prepare and it seems so far the Ukrainians are keeping a remarkably cool head compared to other people in similar situations.

cinci zoo sniper
Mar 15, 2013




Al-Saqr posted:

You're right. I'll just be really shocked if Putin does EXACTLY the thing everyone said he'll do weeks in advance, for example the Georgian war Russia caught Sakashvili by surprise. I dunno. It seems really odd to give your enemy so much time to prepare and it seems so far the Ukrainians are keeping a remarkably cool head compared to other people in similar situations.

I think it’s worth noting here that “use of military force” is a rather broad term. For instance, it’s somewhat unlikely that the currently nearby Russian forces are capable of occupying the entirety of Ukraine. At the same time, we could see totally “separatists” push through Mariupol’ to connect to Crimea, or a cyber warfare campaign that cripple Ukrainian energy grid, or totally “Ukrainian army” gassing a village in the territory held by separatists. I don’t think interpreting that tweet in some way other than “act aggressively enough to cause direct damage” is particularly useful yet.

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OddObserver
Apr 3, 2009

Al-Saqr posted:

You're right. I'll just be really shocked if Putin does EXACTLY the thing everyone said he'll do weeks in advance, for example the Georgian war Russia caught Sakashvili by surprise. I dunno. It seems really odd to give your enemy so much time to prepare and it seems so far the Ukrainians are keeping a remarkably cool head compared to other people in similar situations.
It takes time to position troops and equipment, and you can't really hide that in this day and age. Not with people posting "hey, there is a train with lots of tanks outside my window" to TikTok, and with everyone having satellites (heck, Ukraine just had one launched!).
Doesn't mean those positioned troops will move immediately or ever, of course.

And as for keeping cool.. What else can they do?

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