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Glenn formulates his opinions by determining what is the mainstream opinion supported by the government and media, and then becoming fervently outspoken contrary to that. It's a shtick that works well when it comes to corruption, mismanagement, imperialism, etc. Not so much when it comes to public health, education, social progressivism, and such.
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Jan 25, 2022 20:12
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So an unsurprising turn of events, there's enough Venezuelan migrants in Chile as to cause deeply held resentment. 500000 Venezuelans have entered the country since the beginning of the crisis, according to official figures, and that number hasn't really tapered off, there's an estimated influx of about 400-500 Venezuelans crossing the Bolivian border into Chile daily, mostly on foot, a trail that goes right through the Atacama Desert. The UNHCR has been operating continuously there since 2017. This video in particular has been going viral since yesterday https://twitter.com/HombredeRadio/status/1486089220686901251 That's in Iquique, one of the largest cities in the north of Chile. The 4 perpetrators I believe have been caught, and turns out they were all Venezuelan, you can tell in the video by the accent anyway. Unsurprisingly, Chilean social media hasn't been very kind to them, there's tons and tons of comments about "deporting them all". Oddly enough this seems to be an issue that's pretty spread across the political spectrum, leftists Chileans stereotype Venezuelans as being fascists, right-wing Chileans stereotype them as being poor, uneducated thugs.
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Jan 26, 2022 13:21
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fnox posted:they were all Venezuelan, you can tell in the video by the accent anyway. 
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Jan 26, 2022 14:23
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fnox posted:That's in Iquique, one of the largest cities in the north of Chile. The 4 perpetrators I believe have been caught, and turns out they were all Venezuelan, you can tell in the video by the accent anyway. Unsurprisingly, Chilean social media hasn't been very kind to them, there's tons and tons of comments about "deporting them all". Oddly enough this seems to be an issue that's pretty spread across the political spectrum, leftists Chileans stereotype Venezuelans as being fascists, right-wing Chileans stereotype them as being poor, uneducated thugs. Interesting, though still a lovely situation. Wouldn't be surprised if some equivalent of gusano stereotypes are in play here, rightly or wrongly.
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Jan 26, 2022 14:45
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Grouchio posted:I would if I could speak fluent spanish and could parse the differences in dialects. Which I cannot. Tbh you'd have to be exposed to them to know what to listen to even if you are a fluent Spanish speaker. The most obvious thing is the use of vocabulary, but there's a particular cadence to most Caribbean accents, which you may be able to tell apart from the "no me agarres asi" said by the Venezuelan guy in the middle of the video, compared to the Chileans saying "oye respete la autoridad". Of course there are accents within countries as well, Venezuela has markedly different regional accents, although my guess is that these guys are from Caracas. Ghost Leviathan posted:Interesting, though still a lovely situation. Wouldn't be surprised if some equivalent of gusano stereotypes are in play here, rightly or wrongly. So the blame largely is placed on the past administrations, which I mean were Bachelet and Piñera, two polar opposites in the political spectrum. The ones who blame Piñera specifically say that allowing Venezuelans to come in was a power play to let in more conservative voters (someone who left Venezuela on foot sure as poo poo isn't too kind to anything calling itself socialist). The ones who blame Bachelet say that she was manoeuvring for her current position in the UN at the expense of Chileans. In any case the situation leaves the populace deeply unhappy, and this is quickly becoming a hotly debated topic: what do you do with all these Venezuelans? I don't think any of the Venezuelans entering the country right now have anything to do with the gusano stereotype. You'd have to be completely delusional to see someone walking from Bolivia into Chile as a refugee as some sort of member of the landed class. Hell, I'm pretty certain many of these people were once Chavez' base. Just from what I hear from acquaintances, there's just as many "chavistas no maduristas" abroad, to say that the only people leaving are enemies of the revolution is just categorically untrue.
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Jan 26, 2022 15:03
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Grouchio posted:I would if I could speak fluent spanish and could parse the differences in dialects. Which I cannot. The Venezuelans are the ones you can understand!  I kid, but I will admit as someone who's accustomed to Colombian Spanish, it never ceases to amaze just how different Chilean Spanish is. I really think it's the most unique one in South America, though it's true I don't know any Paraguayans.
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Jan 26, 2022 18:30
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Chilean deviates more from standard spanish than Argentinian?
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Jan 26, 2022 19:16
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In terms of slang it’s nearly impregnable unless you know what certain words mean. The classical example is of course https://youtu.be/fDDY3-wKhmc
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Jan 26, 2022 19:33
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Is adding a distinct H sound at the start of some words that start with a vowel a Chilean thing? I've long wondered it mostly because of this song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OORCSsbHU6Y (1:00 onwards) where her "en" is very clearly "hen"
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Jan 26, 2022 19:46
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fnox posted:So the blame largely is placed on the past administrations, which I mean were Bachelet and Piñera, two polar opposites in the political spectrum. The ones who blame Piñera specifically say that allowing Venezuelans to come in was a power play to let in more conservative voters (someone who left Venezuela on foot sure as poo poo isn't too kind to anything calling itself socialist). The ones who blame Bachelet say that she was manoeuvring for her current position in the UN at the expense of Chileans. In any case the situation leaves the populace deeply unhappy, and this is quickly becoming a hotly debated topic: what do you do with all these Venezuelans? I don't recall many people outright saying that Piñera wanted to bring more right-wing votes, but I've seen plenty with the opinion that Piñera vocally offering refuge to Venezuelan immigrants was a desperate attempt to save face after the Cúcuta convoy episode, where Piñera angled really hard for a spot in the limelight but it was generally seen as an embarrassing fiasco, even among his own sector. Supposedly Piñera believed at the time that Maduro's government had its days numbered anyway, so the offer (with corresponding modifications to visa requirements) was done with the expectation that Venezuelan immigration would taper off in the short-to-mid term. Eventually, as the numbers grew even larger, Piñera tried to do some damage control in typical Piñera fashion (some photo-ops of deportation flights with Venezuelan immigrants boarding the plane in a chain gang met with much criticism) but by that time public opinion had already turned against him, and his handling of immigration in particular was likely one of the major reasons why the mainstream right's voter base fled in droves to Kast's far right for the presidential election. Criticism of Bachelet is a bit weirder, and it tends to overlap with various conspiracy theories (Basically "Bachelet is in the pocket of Big UN, she's paid a fee for every immigrant who reaches the country"). Overall, Bachelet was mostly blamed for the arrival of Haitian immigrants (Chilean participation in the UN mission in Haiti was mostly seen as a Bachelet thing), while Piñera was held responsible for Venezuelans, but nutjobs have entered the stage where everything's connected to a vast globalist plot to dilute the Chilean Race™, and Bachelet's got a position at the UN so globalism's more her thing I guess? Anyway, immigration's become a pressing issue to a level it never had before, and folks believe it, along with the situation in Araucanía, will be the most challenging issues that Boric will have to deal with. It's kind of an awkward subject to address, since when it comes to Venezuelan immigrants in particular, you do see a lot of contempt and dismissal from people who'd identify as leftists, but actual political figures of the left are hesitant to turn to outright anti-immigrant rhetoric (the exception would be Eduardo Artés, but he's pretty fringe). Boric's original platform was considered immigrant-friendly (one of the major criticisms he drew during the campaign was a point of his platform that was interpreted as an offer of public housing for undocumented immigrants), but this was one of the areas where he pivoted to the center after underperforming in the first round. I think in one of the foreign plicy debates he mentioned collaborating with other LatAm countries to set up a system of quotas for accepting Venezuelan migrants, but no idea how he plans to implement that. Meanwhile, the far right bases much of its momentum on anti-immigrant sentiment, but they also rely on the issue of Venezuela to stoke their anti-communism. Kast's team had a few Venezuelans on board, but their official position of "Solidarity with the suffering people of Venezuela" is at odds with its voter base ("no, actually the Venezuelans coming in NOW are all chavistas" isn't a rare position to find among Kast supporters), so their compromise apparently was to be vocally anti-immigrant without specifying which exact nationality they're railing against. And yeah, there were some upper and upper-middle class Venezuelan immigrants who arrived to Chile, but it mostly took place during the late Chávez / early Maduro years. The ones who arrive now are almost exclusively working class. My rule of thumb is if you can afford not passing through a literal minefield on foot, you're solid middle class. 100YrsofAttitude posted:The Venezuelans are the ones you can understand! As a Chilean I can identify a Caribbean accent in general, but I can't for the life of me distinguish Venezuelan from Colombian. At most I can tell Dominican apart, since they kinda sound like a Cuban doing an offensive impression of an East Asian person. Ras Het posted:Is adding a distinct H sound at the start of some words that start with a vowel a Chilean thing? I've long wondered it mostly because of this song https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OORCSsbHU6Y (1:00 onwards) where her "en" is very clearly "hen" No, pretty sure that's jut a vocal thing (Mena takes a lot of influences from 80s music, maybe some of the Italians singing in Spanish who were popular at the time did that?). What people find most notorious about Chilean Spanish changes from person to person, but it's usually the aspiration of several consonants, or our particular type of voseo (though that one doesn't show up in most songs).
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Jan 26, 2022 22:29
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fnox posted:(someone who left Venezuela on foot sure as poo poo isn't too kind to anything calling itself socialist). Although if you meant that strictly as (part of) the criticism that Piñera received then I agree. A similar thing happened here during the Macri administration, and have heard similar complaints in Uruguay (all these complaints are in my opinion unfounded). I know the situation in Arica and Iquique is quite bad and that the locals are quite upset. In the rest of Chile discontent is not as high. The countries that have the biggest popular discontent against Venezuelan migrants are Colombia, Panama, Ecuador, due to the proximity and thus the ease for migrants to reach those places. However, a lot of those migrants are transitory, while migrants who reach Chile/Argentina/Uruguay tend to do so with the aim to stay or to at least build some sort of holding pattern before trying to get to a nice destination (USA/Europe). So people in eg. Perú may see a lot of Venezuelans constantly moving through their community, but few actually settling there. Someone in Chile will see fewer Venezuelans, but they will settle there and depending on the context they may not be necessarily welcome.
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Jan 26, 2022 22:37
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:I disagree with this part of your post. I don't live in Chile, but I do work within an international context and that includes a lot of Venezuelans (including poor migrant Venezuelans) and a lot of them, as you say later in your post, point the finger at Maduro more than anything else. Many, although obviously not all, do still believe in some form of socialism. A lot of these people do not fit the classic Latin American conservative mould apart from being religious in some degree. I did not literally mean that they went from socialist to conservative. But certainly, getting told literally every day by Maduro that everything was being done in the name of socialism, and everything he did ends up ruining your entire life, it draws aversion to the label. Ideologically I don’t think there’s that many Venezuelans that are actually conservative aside from affluent rich expats in Miami that are now exposed to American conservatives. As a consequence of the Bolivarian revolution being ideologically very loose, the aversion tends to be to the label, not the actual ideas behind it. I’m also not very certain what you mean with immigrants being transitory in Peru. There’s over a million Venezuelans there, surely some have settled. The reason you’ve seen them head further south is precisely because of the sheer amount of rejection they face in Peru. Polls there also show resentment. Same thing everywhere really. The only evidence of migrants transiting anywhere is Bolivia and Colombia. Colombia because it’s the obvious first destination, and there’s already 2 million there, Bolivia because there’s much better opportunities at their neighbors. Also this idea that they’re then migrating to the US and Europe is a complete and utter fantasy. That’s not been the case for years now, even less so with COVID. Venezuelans in Europe are mostly dual citizens, Venezuelans in the US are people who had enough money to get there and are now for the most part refugees if they didn’t have a long term visa to begin with.
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Jan 26, 2022 23:29
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fnox posted:I did not literally mean that they went from socialist to conservative. But certainly, getting told literally every day by Maduro that everything was being done in the name of socialism, and everything he did ends up ruining your entire life, it draws aversion to the label. Ideologically I don’t think there’s that many Venezuelans that are actually conservative aside from affluent rich expats in Miami that are now exposed to American conservatives. As a consequence of the Bolivarian revolution being ideologically very loose, the aversion tends to be to the label, not the actual ideas behind it. fnox posted:I’m also not very certain what you mean with immigrants being transitory in Peru. There’s over a million Venezuelans there, surely some have settled. The reason you’ve seen them head further south is precisely because of the sheer amount of rejection they face in Peru. Polls there also show resentment. Same thing everywhere really. The only evidence of migrants transiting anywhere is Bolivia and Colombia. Colombia because it’s the obvious first destination, and there’s already 2 million there, Bolivia because there’s much better opportunities at their neighbors. Almost all of the Venezuelans that end up in Chile, Argentina, Uruguay, and even Bolivia and Paraguay, move through Peru. Almost everyone going south of Colombia does so via Andean path - a small proportion of Venezuelans go through Brasil. In that sense Peru and Ecuador are very much a transitory country (just as much as Colombia). Obviously a lot of people settle in those countries, but a considerable % are either presently in transit or have settled temporarily in order to then continue on with their journey. Many people run out of money in the middle of the journey and try to find work to save up to complete it after. In Argentina, Uruguay, and Chile, the % settling is the near total. fnox posted:Also this idea that they’re then migrating to the US and Europe is a complete and utter fantasy. That’s not been the case for years now, even less so with COVID. Venezuelans in Europe are mostly dual citizens, Venezuelans in the US are people who had enough money to get there and are now for the most part refugees if they didn’t have a long term visa to begin with.
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Jan 27, 2022 00:39
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i say swears online posted:Chilean deviates more from standard spanish than Argentinian? A whole video on the topic of Chilean Spanish: https://youtu.be/GnfI6cGltwg
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Jan 27, 2022 02:21
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Ghost of Mussolini posted:All countries are to some extent both a settlement destination as well as a transitory place for many migrants. You cannot call Colombia transitory and not paint Peru in the same sense, Colombia hosts more Venezuelans than anywhere else. Even Bolivia and Paraguay have small communities of Venezuelans who have settled there in the last few years. There are certainly places that are 100% transitory in every country, like Desaguadero on the Peru/Bolivia frontier or Villazón/La Quiaca on the Bolivia/Argentina frontier. There are places within those countries that are transitory as they are in the path of other destinations, yes, but I don't see why you're calling Peru or Colombia that. Immigrants are always in search of better opportunities, and you're naturally going to have less opportunities if you're competing for them with a million other migrants. Even by your own example, Bolivia would be better described as transitory, seeing how Venezuelans seem to only pass it to get to Chile and Argentina from Peru, the overwhelming majority do not stay there according to official numbers. This is getting into arguing semantics, so, I get what you mean, but there's plenty of Venezuelans settled in Bogota and Lima who aren't going anywhere further south, they number in the millions. Ghost of Mussolini posted:Its not a complete and utter fantasy, these people exist, and I'm not talking about people with dual passports - first-wave upper-class migrants or the second-wave middle-uppers. They're not the majority or anything close to it, but there is a definite profile of Venezuelan migrant who has a long-term plan to keep migrating out of Latin America entirely. Compared with the rest of the region, Chile, Argentina, and Uruguay have good passports and easier residency arrangements. I'm talking about people who show up with very little in the way of formal paperwork but who are very much aware that they can regularize their situation with significantly less barriers than they would in eg. Ecuador or Colombia. The path to citizenship particularly in Argentina is not difficult, and Venezuelans in these countries do remark that they note a better level of treatment on behalf of the authorities. I have personally seen the paperwork of people who have had children born along the route somewhere and not have those children recognised by the government of Peru, Bolivia, Ecuador, Colombia - only to regularize their situation in Chile and Argentina. In many cases these people cannot even deal with the Venezuelan consulate, which takes on very few people each day and takes a very long time to respond to queries or hand paperwork back unless certain incentives are deployed. Again, these are nowhere near the majority, but there are (non-upper-class) Venezuelans who say that they no longer put faith in living in Latin America and, who while settling in a Latin American country in the short term, do not have plans to stay there forever. The fact that they have that plan doesn't mean that's happening. Like, the idea of someone who arrives to Chile on foot, that manages to find informal work (because that's all they're going to find at this stage) is going to have a tangible plan to flee to the US or America, that's a fantasy. That's if anything, a generational plan, that's maybe something they can aspire for their kids. Now, if they arrived say, 6 years ago, meaning before the peak of the crisis, and they're working a decent job, that may be in the cards, but those are not in the majority, and even they will find it extremely challenging to find a way to legally stay in Europe or the US. But yeah the disillusion with the entirety of Latin America is very much a real thing, who wouldn't in their situation? You're hated by the entire region, and involved in a series of political games that have only caused you pain. Home doesn't feel like home any more, and neither does anywhere else. Also to note, you can't deal with the Venezuelan consulate anywhere. There isn't even one where I live. Consular services are a known racket anywhere where there's a majority of Venezuelan immigrants, with people having to pay up to 300 dollars just for a passport renewal, if you can even get an appointment. A big, big motivating factor behind becoming a naturalized citizen of any other country is just to not have to deal with that, because even as a Venezuelan citizen who entered the country legally, you might find yourself unable to go anywhere, not even back home, since Venezuela issues passports with 5 year expiration dates...And they're running out of material to make them. In any case, the reason why I'm even bringing this topic up is that it's so utterly ignored by Western media. Venezuelans aren't even allowed in Mexico without a visa. We're talking about something like 20-25% of the population of a country being displaced abroad, with a majority of those in really precarious situations, and somehow the idea remains that these people are class traitors. Barely anybody outside of Latin America is paying attention to this, barely any resources are allocated to accommodating them, and their host countries are growing weary of them.
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Jan 27, 2022 11:23
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https://www.latercera.com/nacional/...5OVUBGRI45A3SA/ It's getting worse. Protests in Iquique against mass migrations, ended with the destruction of tents and property of homeless migrants. This is actually the second one in recent memory.
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Jan 30, 2022 22:55
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fnox posted:https://www.latercera.com/nacional/...5OVUBGRI45A3SA/ Yeah I read about one last September https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/mundo/noticias-america-latina-58732902.amp Are they a special kind of rear end in a top hat up there?
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Jan 31, 2022 00:10
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A separate question: I just found out that apparently the average salary for a professional in Mexico is somewhere around 96,000 pesos or 5,000 dollars a year. That's below the poverty line in the US. I imagine this is a really basic economics question but why is it so radically different? It appears to me that the answer lies intrinsically in the difference between the peso and the dollar, because 96,000 dollars in the US is a reasonable salary for a professional. America Inc. fucked around with this message at 00:36 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 00:31
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Is that not the monthly salary?
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Jan 31, 2022 00:45
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quarantinethepast posted:It appears to me that the answer lies intrinsically in the difference between the peso and the dollar, because 96,000 dollars in the US is a reasonable salary for a professional. this doesn't matter and is illusory; a good salary in norway is one million kroner a year. their currency by base number is weaker but they have higher living standards in their country than the us anyway $5,000 per year seems super super low. a baseline professional job (working on a railway or in a car parts factory, pretty common blue-collar professions in mexico) will get you $10-15,000/year USD. a rural teacher with a bachelor's may be closer to $5k? not sure hoiyes posted:Is that not the monthly salary? pretty sure 100k pesos a month would be for a prestigious university professor or a civil engineer, i think that sounds right
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Jan 31, 2022 00:45
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i say swears online posted:this doesn't matter and is illusory; a good salary in norway is one million kroner a year. their currency by base number is weaker but they have higher living standards in their country than the us For white collar, university educated professionals it seems fine, especially seeing as it's an average and thus hugely distorted by massive C-suite salaries.
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Jan 31, 2022 02:05
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I live in Mexico. 7-10k pesos a month is about average for a college graduate entering the market. College professors are closer to 12-15k. Civil engineers are closer to 15-18k, as are doctors. If you have a doctorate you can probably get a 25k job, which is really good. An extremely small number of people make more than 40k pesos a month. The minimum salary, by law, is 172 pesos a day and that's only because it has grown over 60% in the last few years. A few years back I had a friend who worked at a maquila, eight hours a day, for 70 loving pesos. As to why it is so low, I dunno. Probably because Mexico spent a good few decades being groomed and paraded around as having cheap labor both to attract foreign investment and remain competitive in its exports.
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Jan 31, 2022 02:23
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quarantinethepast posted:A separate question: I just found out that apparently the average salary for a professional in Mexico is somewhere around 96,000 pesos or 5,000 dollars a year. That's below the poverty line in the US. I imagine this is a really basic economics question but why is it so radically different? Based on the other responses to you, it sounds like the actual difference in salaries for white collar professionals is pretty close to that ratio.
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Jan 31, 2022 21:19
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Costs of living are much lower in Mexico, and the dream for residents is having a remote job that gives you the big 1st world bucks.
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Jan 31, 2022 21:22
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I think it's more that the local salaries drive cost of living, rather than companies looking at cost of living to set salaries. Companies will set salaries as low as they can find people for, even if cost of living is super high.Conspiratiorist posted:the dream for residents is having a remote job that gives you the big 1st world bucks. quote:It took Andrea Campos, the Mexico City–based founder of two-year-old mental health app Yana, six long months to find a senior front-end developer. After launching her app in the early days of the pandemic, Yana’s usership ballooned from just a few thousand users in Mexico to over 5 million across twelve countries. Campos, who said her company has raised $2.5 million in 2021 to scale the app and expand her team, was looking to bring on someone with the experience and skills to guide projects. quote:My success with outsourcing some work to Latin America has been much, much, much more successful than outsourcing to India and other places in Asia for the following reasons: Cicero fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 21:26
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fnox posted:The fact that they have that plan doesn't mean that's happening. Like, the idea of someone who arrives to Chile on foot, that manages to find informal work (because that's all they're going to find at this stage) is going to have a tangible plan to flee to the US or America, that's a fantasy. That's if anything, a generational plan, that's maybe something they can aspire for their kids. Now, if they arrived say, 6 years ago, meaning before the peak of the crisis, and they're working a decent job, that may be in the cards, but those are not in the majority, and even they will find it extremely challenging to find a way to legally stay in Europe or the US. Do I think its really viable? No, but this mentality does exist and it does motivate people to seek out and pursue options. fnox posted:But yeah the disillusion with the entirety of Latin America is very much a real thing, who wouldn't in their situation? You're hated by the entire region, and involved in a series of political games that have only caused you pain. Home doesn't feel like home any more, and neither does anywhere else.
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Feb 11, 2022 14:04
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Further escalation, Chilean truck drivers have announced that they are going into a general strike after a group of Venezuelans apparently attacked and killed a driver in the north of the country.
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Feb 11, 2022 21:15
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https://twitter.com/APjoshgoodman/status/1493971145615306758 AJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAA
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Feb 16, 2022 20:12
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Fascinating how many countries are taking steps toward a stance with Russia http://latinamericadailybriefing.blogspot.com/2022/03/latin-america-daily-briefing-march-1.htmlquote:Geopolitics
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Mar 1, 2022 20:35
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jiggerypokery posted:Fascinating how many countries are taking steps toward a stance with Russia http://latinamericadailybriefing.blogspot.com/2022/03/latin-america-daily-briefing-march-1.html Compadres, there are better ways to own the Yanquis than this 
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Mar 2, 2022 05:47
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Not particularly happy about Mexico's limp stance but I guess it can't be helped. Lots of trade and vaccines on the line. Most conversation I see puts a lot of emphasis on American political aggressions too, which I guess is natural after decades of the US being the US.
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Mar 2, 2022 06:25
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jiggerypokery posted:Fascinating how many countries are taking steps toward a stance with Russia http://latinamericadailybriefing.blogspot.com/2022/03/latin-america-daily-briefing-march-1.html Using this situation to punish Latin American countries that aren’t our subjects was inevitable.
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Mar 2, 2022 15:00
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I think the only one out of those that is just actually in bed with Russia is Venezuela. Cuba is mostly just ideologically aligned and no longer as economically dependent, Nicaragua is less tactically useful to Russia. In recent months there's been an uptick of Russian people showing up on social media in touristy areas of Venezuela like Margarita and Los Roques, so I wouldn't be surprised if they secretly started allowing Russian military presence in the country.
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Mar 2, 2022 15:50
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If you're in Latin America you can either be in bed with Russia or with the US. Personally, I would pick Russia, current events notwithstanding.
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Mar 3, 2022 06:34
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Cup Runneth Over posted:If you're in Latin America you can either be in bed with Russia or with the US. Personally, I would pick Russia, current events notwithstanding. Why? They're more corrupt, have less to offer, are farther away and have basically no cultural connection to us. If you're going to go that far, at least China doesn't demand regime change with their onerous loans.
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Mar 3, 2022 09:30
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Cup Runneth Over posted:If you're in Latin America you can either be in bed with Russia or with the US. Personally, I would pick Russia, current events notwithstanding. Generally you want to align with the great power that's geographically far from you and doesn't have a history of loving over your country. Russia is not a great power and their failed invasion of Ukraine dispells all illusions that it is one.
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Mar 3, 2022 11:17
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Cup Runneth Over posted:If you're in Latin America you can either be in bed with Russia or with the US. Personally, I would pick Russia, current events notwithstanding. That but China
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Mar 3, 2022 11:32
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fnox posted:Why? They're more corrupt, have less to offer, are farther away and have basically no cultural connection to us. If you're going to go that far, at least China doesn't demand regime change with their onerous loans. The US has basically nothing to offer as an ally, does not care about any commonalities in culture, and being closer by has always made it that much easier to treat the region as our colony. I am not defending Russia, I am just saying it’s not hard to understand why Latin American countries are looking at this and going “yeah, we’ll stay out of this and leave things as they are.” Nucleic Acids fucked around with this message at 14:48 on Mar 3, 2022 |
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Mar 3, 2022 14:43
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Nucleic Acids posted:The US has basically nothing to offer as an ally, does not care about any commonalities in culture, and being closer by has always made it that much easier to treat the region as our colony. Tbh the only major power that even mentioned Latin America in this issue in particular has been Russia. The US didn't say poo poo about Venezuela or Cuba, Russia did. They're not great allies either. Ultimately I agree, Latin America should be left alone to thrive, but Russia has thus far been the only power roping Latin America into this.
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Mar 3, 2022 15:45
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fnox posted:They're more corrupt lol Also you're forgetting that US foreign policy swivels on a dime every 4-8 years. The US is not a reliable ally even if it weren't an incredibly exploitative and abusive one. Which it is, and it will destroy and plunder your country if you allow it to. fnox posted:Tbh the only major power that even mentioned Latin America in this issue in particular has been Russia. The US didn't say poo poo about Venezuela or Cuba, Russia did. They're not great allies either. Ultimately I agree, Latin America should be left alone to thrive, but Russia has thus far been the only power roping Latin America into this. The reason I said you have a choice between the US and Russia is that the US will demand you bend the knee because you're in their "back yard," and if you don't want to do that, the only place you have to turn is countries that are opposed to the global US hegemony, of which Russia is the foremost. And Russia doesn't care about the UN, so I doubt it gives a poo poo if you abstain from a vote condemning it there.
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Mar 3, 2022 16:04
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