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Aranan posted:I've also got a dedicated treasure deck and it sure does churn out treasures. What are your outlets to actually use the treasure you built up? Revel in Riches, Marionette Master, some crazy rear end Eldrazi? Direct damage spells plus something like Fork?
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Jan 26, 2022 23:24
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The Shortest Path posted:That's not correct. His ability creates a delayed trigger that occurs at the end step, which goes on the stack and can be interacted with. 603.7 in the comprehensive rules. No, it's all one paragraph and is thus a linked ability. You can't respond only to the "return him to the battlefield at the end step" because that is not a triggered ability. You would have to respond to the exile. There is no "when" or "whenever" in the second part of his ability, only the first part. If you stifle the ability he never leaves in the first place.
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Jan 26, 2022 23:39
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Heath posted:No, it's all one paragraph and is thus a linked ability. You can't respond only to the "return him to the battlefield at the end step" because that is not a triggered ability. You would have to respond to the exile. There is no "when" or "whenever" in the second part of his ability, only the first part. If you stifle the ability he never leaves in the first place. Shortest Path is correct; did you read 603.7? Norin the Wary has a triggered ability that creates another delayed triggered ability, which you can tell from the part where it says "at the beginning of the next end step." Delayed triggered abilities are still triggered abilities, and can be Stifled and such.
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Jan 26, 2022 23:50
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Y'all're gonna make me go ask a judge again.
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Jan 27, 2022 00:05
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Batterypowered7 posted:Y'all're gonna make me go ask a judge again. The Internet seems to agree with the above but I feel like it is worded stupid. It's very much an edge case in any situation. If I was playing Norin and someone stifled him I'd probably just scoop and tell them to kiss my rear end tbh
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Jan 27, 2022 00:21
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Heath posted:The Internet seems to agree with the above but I feel like it is worded stupid. It's very much an edge case in any situation. If I was playing Norin and someone stifled him I'd probably just scoop and tell them to kiss my rear end tbh The oracle version is clearer: When a player casts a spell or a creature attacks, exile Norin the Wary. Return it to the battlefield under its owner’s control at the beginning of the next end step. But “at the beginning of…” is pretty much always a trigger that occurs then. It is wonky to create a trigger which creates a trigger.
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Jan 27, 2022 01:13
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Heath posted:The Internet seems to agree with the above but I feel like it is worded stupid. It's very much an edge case in any situation. If I was playing Norin and someone stifled him I'd probably just scoop and tell them to kiss my rear end tbh yeah if you are out here Stifling the incredibly overpowered Norin the Wary decks, I probably wont play with you
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Jan 27, 2022 01:28
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Heath posted:The Internet seems to agree with the above but I feel like it is worded stupid. It's very much an edge case in any situation. If I was playing Norin and someone stifled him I'd probably just scoop and tell them to kiss my rear end tbh It's not really an edge case, it's a pretty common thing throughout Magic's history. For example, there are 223 cards similar to Norin whose oracle text includes "at the beginning of the/your next end step," and they're all parts of other effects (be they spells like Berserk or Ghostway, or triggered abilities like Norin or Feather or Prized Amalgam, activated abilities like Aetherling or Necropotence) that create delayed triggered abilities. There's also "do X at the beginning of the next upkeep" (e.g. Mishra's Bauble), "do X when Y dies this turn" (e.g. Massacre Girl), etc. All of these create triggered abilities that happen at a future time after the original effect. Sometimes, like Prized Amalgam, the entire effect (of the original trigger, in this case) is to create a delayed trigger; other times, like Mishra's Bauble, it's a part of an effect (an activated ability) that does multiple things including create a delayed trigger. The big giveaway is the use of the triggered ability words "when," "whenever," or "at" in reference to something happening in the future. (also, on that note, be on the lookout for "if...instead", "as", and other constructions that don't use those three triggered ability words, which generally signal replacement effects that are not triggers, and "until" which signals that an ongoing effect ends without needing a trigger or anything.) Also you're totally right that stifling Norin is an rear end in a top hat move. DontMockMySmock fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Jan 27, 2022 |
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Jan 27, 2022 02:26
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It's how a lot of effects like that work, anything which exiles and returns at the end step sets up a delayed trigger which can be interacted with. Roon of the Hidden Realm is a good example, I used to play him as a commander and included Voidslime and Trickbind for that reason. That's actually a lot stronger now that it can permanently remove commanders, maybe I'll look into rebuilding that deck...
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Jan 27, 2022 02:34
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Jiro posted:Just get a Dark Depths, Marionette Master, and a bunch of other dumb ,mana, expensive devastating poo poo to swing around with all that money Uncle Scrooge. Even a Ghirapur Aethergrid is going to have a hilariously nasty effect. Thanks. gonna keep a note on this whenever i decide to rebuild it. maybe i should preemptively keep revel in riches, grim hireling, and similar cards "just in case"
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Jan 27, 2022 03:46
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When did Grim Hireling get so expensive?
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Jan 27, 2022 03:59
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Heath posted:When did Grim Hireling get so expensive? Bit over a month ago I think. Part of me has been wanting to buy the deck just to have that as a pretty sweet bonus. I'm gonna want it for my upgraded Marchesa deck anyway.
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Jan 27, 2022 04:06
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I run it in my Grixis Rogues Marchesa. Glad I got a full art when it was new
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Jan 27, 2022 04:10
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how do you even get full arts of cards like grim hireling and prosper? are they in the boosters as well?
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Jan 27, 2022 04:19
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Collector boosters are the only way, I think. Who knows, the way they do packs these days is so confusing.
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Jan 27, 2022 04:48
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Re: Norin's return being a delayed trigger, does he just get lost in space forever if you use an end-the-turn effect when he's about to return, exiling it, too?
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Jan 27, 2022 06:58
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Iron Heart posted:Re: Norin's return being a delayed trigger, does he just get lost in space forever if you use an end-the-turn effect when he's about to return, exiling it, too? Yes
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Jan 27, 2022 07:09
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Framboise posted:Collector boosters are the only way, I think. Who knows, the way they do packs these days is so confusing. This is correct
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Jan 27, 2022 20:10
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Jiro posted:What are your outlets to actually use the treasure you built up? Revel in Riches, Marionette Master, some crazy rear end Eldrazi? Direct damage spells plus something like Fork? It's kind of a dumb deck. Some of the uses for treasures (aside from "make mana") in my deck are: Daretti, Ingenious Iconoclast / Grim Hireling - removal Disciple of the Vault / Reckless Fireweaver / Mayhem Devil / Marionette Master / Ghirapur Aether Grid - very slowly poke people until they get annoyed and kill you Goblin Welder / Goblin Engineer - artifact recursion Hellkite Tyrant / Revel in Riches - win Dizz posted:how do you even get full arts of cards like grim hireling and prosper? are they in the boosters as well? Buying them as singles from retailers.
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Jan 28, 2022 00:02
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Don’t forget Nadier’s Nightblade
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Jan 28, 2022 06:05
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That works but I'm probably just going to take this deck apart since it isn't really doing it for me. Forever building and ripping apart decks...
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Jan 28, 2022 20:34
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Hey why is everything so expensive now? I stopped playing in 2013-ish and now even draft jank is like $2, if you're lucky. I get that the format is moving faster and there's more people playing now, but it's nutso to be paying 60 for sensei's top. I'm sure the answer is "yes" but are people really paying $500+ for their casual commander decks? Well, at least people are playing talismans now. That's all, thanks for listening to Old Man Yells At Clouds.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:34
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Chakan posted:Hey why is everything so expensive now? Commander is the most popular Magic format so even poo poo like Mana Vault, which was three dollars a decade ago, is infinity dollars now.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:46
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Chakan posted:Hey why is everything so expensive now?
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Jan 28, 2022 21:46
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Infinite Karma posted:Besides all the price inflation and lack of reprints and premium product releases (which is obviously gonna raise prices), people aren't going to in person events nearly as much during pandemic time, so there's way less trading. Cards get opened up, then sold online, and then leave the "marketplace" instead of being traded or sold to stores/dealers, which is probably the bigger element of price inflation. There's also the MTG finance crew who are trying to treat cards like appreciating assets, which is leading to people buying cards to hold them for the price increases. I wonder if they are at all interested in these flower bulbs I happen to have.
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Jan 28, 2022 21:57
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got my fat stack of pauper edh cards from a guy. he put in ashnod's altar and somehow didn't put it on the trade list. i have one altar now and one i just bought on TCGPlayer so i guess i gotta somehow benefit from the other one in my future garth deck or my zombies one.
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Jan 29, 2022 00:36
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We were talking about Inalla a few days back. Here's what the deck is capable of, if you can memorize the lines and mulligan properly. I certainly couldn't pilot it this well, but it's impressive to watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ec1dxkypVkc
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Feb 1, 2022 05:29
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Toph Bei Fong posted:We were talking about Inalla a few days back. Here's what the deck is capable of, if you can memorize the lines and mulligan properly. I certainly couldn't pilot it this well, but it's impressive to watch: So is the laptop running a python script off-screen?
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Feb 1, 2022 05:48
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Toph Bei Fong posted:We were talking about Inalla a few days back. Here's what the deck is capable of, if you can memorize the lines and mulligan properly. I certainly couldn't pilot it this well, but it's impressive to watch: I don't have whatever part of my brain it is that makes this kind of gameplay look appealing
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Feb 1, 2022 13:49
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Thank you for sharing.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:28
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Sheldon mischaracterized my favorite author’s writing style in a throwaway tweet unrelated to MtG and now I am at war with the format!!!!
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Feb 1, 2022 15:38
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Never trust a Sheldon.
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Feb 1, 2022 16:57
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https://twitter.com/SheldonMenery/status/1486099815004049409 lol
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Feb 1, 2022 18:30
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Thank god we’ll still get quality articles like the recent one about the top 20 hidden gems in commander. Unfortunately he did not actually read the cards before writing the article so…
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Feb 1, 2022 19:14
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I have and play with Gate to Phyrexia in my casual mono-B deck (because I have a bunch of old cards and what else am I gonna do with them?), and I agree it's an even better hidden gem because artifacts are harder for black to hit than enchantments. But also it's a nearly $100 card that's been out of print for... 29 years? They couldn't do their homework and decide that maybe it's not a good rec?
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Feb 1, 2022 19:24
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What am I missing? All three of the listed cards work fine with Gate? Oh isee, artifact hate not enchantment hate like he typed. Macdeo Lurjtux fucked around with this message at 19:32 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 19:25
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:What am I missing? All three of the listed cards work fine with Gate? Gate removes artifacts, not enchantments
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Feb 1, 2022 19:27
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Macdeo Lurjtux posted:What am I missing? All three of the listed cards work fine with Gate? Gate destroys artifacts, but Sheldon must have read that it destroys enchantments.
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Feb 1, 2022 19:29
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Infinite Karma posted:I have and play with Gate to Phyrexia in my casual mono-B deck (because I have a bunch of old cards and what else am I gonna do with them?), and I agree it's an even better hidden gem because artifacts are harder for black to hit than enchantments. But also it's a nearly $100 card that's been out of print for... 29 years? They couldn't do their homework and decide that maybe it's not a good rec? I bought an LP one for $9 five years ago when I was thinking about maybe building a Yahenni deck. Glad to see it's $65 these days.
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Feb 1, 2022 19:33
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Infinite Karma posted:But also it's a nearly $100 card that's been out of print for... 29 years? Motherdouchebag, Gate to Phyrexia was a trash card back in the day, I had piles of them.
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Feb 1, 2022 20:32
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