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MrL_JaKiri posted:The OP frequently refers to O'Hare in exceptionally derogatory ways so not really on that side, esp given that Doyle was a famously massive dickhead Narsham posted:Without trying to diagnose a cause, I’d suggest that both Doyle and O’Hare had mixed records behind the scenes, and that it seems likely given their personalities that they wouldn’t like one another.
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Jan 23, 2022 02:07
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Also like, you can intellectually realize the guy is mentally ill and acting like an rear end in a top hat because of it, but you're still spending every day working with an rear end in a top hat. You can hopefully be forgiving of it because what he was going through and also have hated being around him.
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Jan 23, 2022 02:12
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Grand Fromage posted:Also like, you can intellectually realize the guy is mentally ill and acting like an rear end in a top hat because of it, but you're still spending every day working with an rear end in a top hat. You can hopefully be forgiving of it because what he was going through and also have hated being around him. The compassionate person says "He was an rear end in a top hat to be around because of his illness", not "So what if he was ill, he was still an rear end in a top hat".
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Jan 23, 2022 09:16
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Jedit posted:The compassionate person says "He was an rear end in a top hat to be around because of his illness", not "So what if he was ill, he was still an rear end in a top hat". And what made you think Jerry "Electric Bleachers" Doyle was a particularly compassionate guy?
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Jan 23, 2022 12:22
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I maintain (hope?) that the electric bleachers crack was along the lines of “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, that everybody deserves punishment for the jerks that they were, and only by good fortune and the Grace of others did we not get the punishment we deserved.
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Jan 23, 2022 17:58
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Oberndorf posted:I maintain (hope?) that the electric bleachers crack was along the lines of “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, that everybody deserves punishment for the jerks that they were, and only by good fortune and the Grace of others did we not get the punishment we deserved. He was a far right talk show host, what do you think
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Jan 23, 2022 18:03
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jng2058 posted:And what made you think Jerry "Electric Bleachers" Doyle was a particularly compassionate guy? What made you think I was talking about Jerry Doyle? I was talking about Claudia Christian.
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Jan 23, 2022 18:21
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MrL_JaKiri posted:He was a far right talk show host, what do you think Dunno his religious persuasion, but a lot of righties have a strong Christian streak.
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Jan 23, 2022 19:14
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Oberndorf posted:I maintain (hope?) that the electric bleachers crack was along the lines of “let he who is without sin cast the first stone”, that everybody deserves punishment for the jerks that they were, and only by good fortune and the Grace of others did we not get the punishment we deserved. JMS is on record saying he wrote that line for Garibaldi because he heard Jerry Doyle making that point over lunch one day in a discussion about capital punishment. The extremism may have been for effect, but it was definitely an expression of Doyle's actual belief. (Doyle and Boxleitner were both right-wingers; Furlan and Biggs were left-wing, while Jason Carter was extremely left. After Carter joined the cast, it sounds like Doyle enjoyed baiting him in these conversations. But the "bleachers" line was well before that.)
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Jan 23, 2022 19:49
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Oberndorf posted:Dunno his religious persuasion, but a lot of righties have a strong Christian streak. No a lot of right wingers proclaim a strong religious belief - usually very loudly, extremely often, and uninvited. A thing normal people definitely do about deeply held beliefs.
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Jan 23, 2022 19:54
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Stumbled across this during an adventure through TV tropes, thought it interesting.quote:In the Expanded Universe of Babylon 5, North Korea is a technically independent part of China. It's the result of North Korea's last Epic Fail: with most of the world distracted by World War III, the North Koreans finally invaded the South only to have their military crushed by the ROK Armed Forces and what troops the Americans had not moved to other theatres yet and get themselves bombed back to stone age, at which point the Chinese came in force to prevent an invasion (that neither the South nor the Americans were willing to do for fear of escalating the war) and simply never left, transforming the place in a puppet state. By the time of the series, North Korea is theorically an independent member of Earth Alliance (as China brought them in for the ride when they joined), but is effectively ruled by Chinese senators who keep the country in poverty, with the people desperately wishing for reunification with the still independent South Korea.
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Jan 24, 2022 03:27
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Huh. Where do they write about Earth politics in that kind of detail? An RPG book or something?
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Jan 24, 2022 03:45
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Small White Dragon posted:Stumbled across this during an adventure through TV tropes, thought it interesting. So it's Taiwan all over again 
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Jan 24, 2022 11:28
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Looks like it comes from the Earth Alliance Fact Book, one of the RPG supplements. I wonder if JMS had anything to do with these. They made the unfortunate/hilarious choice to include the concept of racial traits from D&D except it's for real world humans. 
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Jan 24, 2022 23:00
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Grand Fromage posted:Looks like it comes from the Earth Alliance Fact Book, one of the RPG supplements. I wonder if JMS had anything to do with these. Bug me in a few weeks (when I should have unpacked all my books from my move) to check whether this is the same RPG I was complaining about having a really bad core book.
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Jan 24, 2022 23:15
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Absurd Alhazred posted:Bug me in a few weeks (when I should have unpacked all my books from my move) to check whether this is the same RPG I was complaining about having a really bad core book. It's the Mongoose RPG, if that helps. (I'm not sure there's ever been another B5 RPG.) Jaw-dropping, really. My "favorite" is the Scandinavian "role-playing suggestions," half of which describe the physical characteristics of Scandinavians. Pretty sure being fair-skinned isn't a "role-playing suggestion." Huh. Turns out Americans are "racially tolerant" (who knew?) and Canadians "speak English with a noticeable French accent." "Columbians like mining and spelunking and are accustomed to underground settings," but they don't receive either stonecunning or darkvision, so I don't understand this RPG at all.
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Jan 26, 2022 01:20
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Narsham posted:It's the Mongoose RPG, if that helps. (I'm not sure there's ever been another B5 RPG.) The Babylon Project by Chameleon Eclectic predated Mongoose's license.
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Jan 26, 2022 01:31
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Jedit posted:The Babylon Project by Chameleon Eclectic predated Mongoose's license. I think that this is the one. I'm pretty sure it's not Mongoose, I would have remembered.
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Jan 26, 2022 02:21
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https://twitter.com/straczynski/status/1486158081314607113 End of the month is pretty soon, hope there's good news coming.
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Jan 26, 2022 03:12
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Jedit posted:The Babylon Project by Chameleon Eclectic predated Mongoose's license. That also had a space combat system adapted from Full Thrust by the FT designer. I was on a mailing list back in the Roaring 90s that did a lot of PBEM B5 using Full Thrust, we did several games with a referee and 10+ players. Good times.
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Jan 26, 2022 04:51
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Grand Fromage posted:Looks like it comes from the Earth Alliance Fact Book, one of the RPG supplements. I wonder if JMS had anything to do with these. I think Babylon 5 Wars is the only tabletop thing that JMS considered canon. All the B5 RPG sourcebooks I've seen in their various runs have been rather... dubious. I think the stuff Mongoose Publishing did for the Vorlons and Shadows was interesting if not terribly canonical exactly.
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Jan 26, 2022 12:51
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Absurd Alhazred posted:I think that this is the one. I'm pretty sure it's not Mongoose, I would have remembered. Ahahaha if that's the case I have a copy somewhere of the two books that came out. Never bothered with the GM screen though.
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Jan 26, 2022 14:37
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I might have already wondered (or thread already discussed) but I'm genuinely interested if they will go Sinclair -> Sheridan again. I also have a small worry this might "Superman" the actor that was chosen to play Sinclair
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Jan 27, 2022 13:55
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No, the pitch says it's Sheridan from the off.
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Jan 27, 2022 14:11
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So we get The One as someone yet unknown to us? I mean it in like, show sense. Some duder is The One and then we find out its Valen, right?
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Jan 27, 2022 14:23
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Erulisse posted:So we get The One as someone yet unknown to us? He's given indications that he wouldn't necessarily be aiming to tell the story the same way. It's possible there may be no One, no Valen, even no Shadows or Vorlons. He was vague, of course, and I'm referring to a number of Twitter posts he's been making, but the interpretation I took was anything from a few things being different, to a lot of things being new or totally changed. Taking the same mysteries and reveals and remixing what happens to who wouldn't be very satisfying. All us old hands would be playing "guess who Valen is" from day one, whereas first time round we didn't even know one of our cast was going to be Valen. I think he gets that (again based on his Twitter posts, I have no actual idea!), so it won't be a question of just going through the same story milestones. It must be strange writing a new version of something old. You've already got audience expectations, so do you try subverting them, fulfilling them, ignoring them or actively avoiding them? How do you avoid convolution when fitting your story around all that? And would you have to add script elements to undo some assumed/unstated knowledge of the old version, so you can let old viewers know things don't work that way in this version, but without alienating new viewers? Sounds like a minefield.
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Jan 27, 2022 14:55
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Great points, thank you. More eager than ever to watch it now.
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Jan 27, 2022 15:07
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Pretty sure the opposite is true, that it's Sheridan throughout
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Jan 27, 2022 16:56
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MrL_JaKiri posted:Pretty sure the opposite is true, that it's Sheridan throughout
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Jan 27, 2022 17:05
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Payndz posted:[Neo-Sheridan actor turns out to be a vocal anti-vax fascist; JMS sighs and pulls the trapdoor lever.] I don't think they will cast ben shapiro. If only for laughs
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Jan 27, 2022 17:14
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I think that moving forward, showrunners are going to be a lot more careful in vetting for anti-vaxxers. As in, no trust at all - mandating booster shots before filming begins with both termination and a penalty clause on refusal.
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Jan 27, 2022 17:24
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Erulisse posted:So we get The One as someone yet unknown to us? No, no, not the One.
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Jan 27, 2022 17:59
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Dan Bongino as Garabaldo is a choice.grassy gnoll posted:No, no, not the One. Zathras, back as specifically the voice of the audience who watched the original, getting increasingly flustered at changes please.
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Jan 27, 2022 18:01
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Apparently Delenn was originally supposed to be male but played by a female actress. The chrysalis story line would have had them emerge from the cocoon as a female. JMS changed the story after they couldn't get Furlan's voice to sound "realistically masculine".
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Jan 27, 2022 18:08
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Mr. Apollo posted:Apparently Delenn was originally supposed to be male but played by a female actress. The chrysalis story line would have had them emerge from the cocoon as a female. JMS changed the story after they couldn't get Furlan's voice to sound "realistically masculine". Yup. You can see that in how she looked in The Gathering when they were still trying to make it work vs the rest of Season One: 
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Jan 27, 2022 22:59
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I wonder if that's a plot beat he'll decide to try again, should be doable with today's tech.
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Jan 27, 2022 23:22
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One thing I think the show could use that it really suffered from not having, especially in S1-2, is some kind of human civillian/diplomatic presence in the cast. As it is, B5 has always been this show about two worlds - the "UN in Space Show" and the "Military Base Command Staff Show", and it always felt like they were inserting dumb guest characters and one-offs (or shoehorning the telepaths into the role) to try to show that B5 has a civillian presence, that Earth politics matter, and that B5 really is meant to be a place in which intergalactic business is being conducted amongst governments at the highest level. Putting a recurring Ambassador from Earth character on the show would go a long way to make the stakes of the early days of the good guys conspiracy feel a bit more real, by putting an actual villain on the station for them to contend with, etc. etc. Grand Fromage posted:I wonder if that's a plot beat he'll decide to try again, should be doable with today's tech. Hopefully not. If you want to put a trans character in the show, just do that. Turning Delenn's whole thing into that just feels like it would not go over well.
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Jan 28, 2022 01:32
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Plus, post-Cloud Atlas, it isn't really doing anything that new.
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Jan 28, 2022 02:41
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There was the space-UN and the military base, but I think the depiction of the station that was prioritized for most of the show was a it as a bustling international port city, which I guess clashed with the other depictions in its own way. I guess it might've been a bit weird for a command staff officer to be personally managing traffic.
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Jan 28, 2022 03:03
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SlothfulCobra posted:There was the space-UN and the military base, but I think the depiction of the station that was prioritized for most of the show was a it as a bustling international port city, which I guess clashed with the other depictions in its own way. I guess it might've been a bit weird for a command staff officer to be personally managing traffic. That’s a side of the station, but it was never really a side of the show except when it needed to be for a convenient plot hook. But, again, that’s something that having a civilian human presence in the cast would have gone a long way towards us seeing more of.
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Jan 28, 2022 03:41
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