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Jesus how smart are you guys that's alot of money. Here I am fending for 50k jobs lol
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Jan 22, 2022 14:34
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It's all about industry. I'm not a SWE but work at a big tech company and the comp is ridiculous for almost all jobs. If you can do your job at a tech company, you owe it to yourself to at least apply.
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Jan 22, 2022 14:40
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asur posted:Maybe I'm skewed because of SF but 300k is low for Staff. Honestly it's about right for games. The AAA/console games offer at staff I had a few months ago was significantly below that. Not a good look to underpay that far when leading interviews talking about your franchise mints a few billion every time you release something.
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Jan 22, 2022 15:00
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aperfectcirclefan posted:Jesus how smart are you guys that's alot of money.
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Jan 22, 2022 18:35
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Agreed it's more location than anything. For reference, saving a few years for a downpayment, to comfortably afford a condo here you need a household income of at least 250k. A single-family home is more like 450-500k. And rent on a 2br apartment is going to be starting in the mid 2000s. Taking advice from the thread (and doing some reading) I figure I'm countering at 250, a little over 30% what they offered, not giving any reasoning and just stating that is what I would like. I posted verbiage here but then realized I don't want my email to be that easily google-able. Double edit: props to Hadlock for sample verbiage. Triple edit: gently caress it might as well go really high. I have interviews wrapping up with 2 other companies next week and starting with 2 more and the work/culture at this one is the lowest in desirability for me. zombienietzsche fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Jan 22, 2022 |
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Jan 22, 2022 19:48
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If those are the buying prices then you know why the Irish housing market is so hosed.
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Jan 22, 2022 21:38
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Arquinsiel posted:If those are the buying prices then you know why the Irish housing market is so hosed. From the little I’ve seen, it’s nearly everywhere, especially metro areas (Europe, North America).
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Jan 23, 2022 00:32
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Yeah even before the pandemic an entry level plumber was pulling like $80k, with any kind of experience it's closer to $120k and I know a lot of them are in the $150s most of that is due to cost of housing. The side benefit to this is putting 4% of your income at $150k into a retirement fund is a lot more than putting 4% of $45,000 into your retirement fund; you can always retire in a low cost of living area after making big bucks in your 30s and 40s If you want to make more money but don't have the skills to do real software engineering, you can still go to a boot camp and learn to become a front end developer which should pay at least $60k in most metros, not terribly hard to find jobs that pay $120-140 now, a lot of them remote zombienietzsche posted:
Glad that's helped a lot of people
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Jan 23, 2022 01:01
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Hadlock posted:Yeah even before the pandemic an entry level plumber was pulling like $80k, with any kind of experience it's closer to $120k and I know a lot of them are in the $150s most of that is due to cost of housing. The side benefit to this is putting 4% of your income at $150k into a retirement fund is a lot more than putting 4% of $45,000 into your retirement fund; you can always retire in a low cost of living area after making big bucks in your 30s and 40s Out of curiosity, you wouldn't happen to know how much such a boot camp would cost would you?
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Jan 23, 2022 18:49
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a lot of coding boot camps are like 12-30k
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Jan 23, 2022 19:51
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Mine was $12k but I got a government grant that paid for all but $2k.  I had a job within a month of graduating, total opportunity cost from when I quit my previous job was 4 months.
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Jan 23, 2022 20:22
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It's anywhere from $15K to $30K here in Midwest. There are some places that offer it for "free", as they take a cut of your pay for a while, usually 10% -20% for a year or two, but because they depend on you getting hired there's a vetting process to get in. e: there were some places that offered it for 6k, but that was half a decade ago.
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Jan 24, 2022 00:40
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Some things to watch out for with coding bootcamps: (1) there's no accreditation so make sure you get references for the bootcamp and understand how likely you are to get a job after (2) it's a crash course so you have to put in a lot of effort (3) developers with <1 year experience get no respect, so after you finish the bootcamp you'll have a tough time finding work.
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Jan 24, 2022 04:58
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Mniot posted:Some things to watch out for with coding bootcamps: (1) there's no accreditation so make sure you get references for the bootcamp and understand how likely you are to get a job after One thing I did which I think helped me make the right decision on which bootcamp to take was to use LinkedIn to search for alumni to see what kind of jobs they ended up doing and how successful they were in getting into the market.
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Jan 24, 2022 06:02
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REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:From the little I’ve seen, it’s nearly everywhere, especially metro areas (Europe, North America).  Also Irish people just never negotiate. We're culturally pressured to be downright worshipful for whatever scraps we're given.
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Jan 24, 2022 11:32
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Yeah, pulling numbers out of my rear end I'd estimate UK salaries are in general about half those in the US. Slightly better in London but then cost of living is roughly double what it is elsewhere. Check out NHS salaries, for reference a staff nurse is a Band 5. Pharmacist is a 6 or a 7. It's difficult to afford to live in the capital for key workers, let alone buy property. https://www.nhsemployers.org/articles/annual-pay-scales-202122
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Jan 24, 2022 11:45
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Now consider that Ireland is training nurses just for them to move to the UK, but housing is more expensive. Now also consider that almost two out of every three elected officials in Ireland is a landlord and it all becomes clear.
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Jan 24, 2022 12:24
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I asked about Microsoft salaries a little while ago -- after a little back & forth, I got to 224k TC assuming "target" bonus numbers (plus a $25k sign-on bonus). I put together a 3x3 matrix of possible outcomes depending on how the bonuses break, but that one's by far the most likely scenario. Pretty happy with that, since it beats my current "target" TC by more than $40k! edited to clarify that the 224k doesn't include the one-time sign-on bonus. Trabant fucked around with this message at 02:21 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 02:02
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Trabant posted:I asked about Microsoft salaries a little while ago -- after a little back & forth, I got to 224k TC assuming "target" bonus numbers (plus a $25k sign-on bonus). I put together a 3x3 matrix of possible outcomes depending on how the bonuses break, but that one's by far the most likely scenario.  well done man! What kind of certs do you feel were most valuable to you closing the deal here, or was it mostly your work experience? Sounds like quite a position to land.
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Jan 26, 2022 02:36
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I'd say it was experience because this is not really an engineering position, at least in the traditional Microsoft developer sense. Having a (long-dormant) background in engineering helped, but even that was EE rather than software. I'm legit excited about this one -- would be even if the money had been the same -- and it's been a loooong time since I could say that about a job.
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Jan 26, 2022 06:38
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hell yeah brother that's a huge win then
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Jan 26, 2022 14:37
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Does anyone have a stock line or two I can feed to HR when they try to squeeze an expected salary range out of me at the screen interview? I don't want to embarrass these guys at the starting line but I've just run into a string of interviewers that were really insistent and coupled with the fact that most of these are on camera over zoom, I'm having trouble keeping myself from saying "no, and gently caress off." My current go-to is something like "I'm very interested in the opportunity, but I like to have that conversation when I've had the chance to get a clearer picture of the company and the interview process." Specifically, does anyone have an effective and succinct counter to "Well we need a salary range so we're not wasting anyone's time!" (early career software engineer)
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Jan 26, 2022 20:51
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"Fair enough, what's the salary range you're offering then?" If they won't take the hint after the third or fourth time round the dance floor, "no, and gently caress off" is fine honestly
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Jan 26, 2022 21:02
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Eric the Mauve posted:"Fair enough, what's the salary range you're offering then?" Also never under-estimate the effectiveness just sitting there staring at the camera and taking an occasional sip of tea or whatever, because they're happy to do that to you and get weirded out when you do it back.
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Jan 26, 2022 21:12
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Oh I literally just say, "everything I've read on line says not to ever give a number first, so I can't talk salary just yet but if we get to the offer stage we can definitely chat more about that later" and if they push I just say "I guess if you have to put a number, put zero but please notate that I declined to give a number at this stage" usually that gets an annoyed laugh but shuts them down immediately, just make sure you are polite You have a lot of cards you want to hold close to your chest, you're not giving up any ground letting them know you're here to play and not interested in giving any ground before salary negotiations started
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Jan 26, 2022 21:24
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If for whatever reason your spine melts into hot butter, come up with a top of range number for the senior version of your position, do not say $100-150 the $150 number doesn't matter they will offer you the lower number and when you say "but I said TO $150" they will say "yeah but you said you'd work for $100" and that's a steep hole to climb out of, getting $105 is gonna be a struggle at that point, you just gave up $45  Never say a number first Edit: this is a true personal story, please learn from it. The numbers aren't the same but I will say I gave up $15,000 being dumb Hadlock fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 21:31
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Eric the Mauve posted:"Fair enough, what's the salary range you're offering then?" This. And yeah, it can get awkward. But that's the work. Experienced negotiators will understand and expect it. Less experienced or those emotionally manipulating you : see above about "gently caress off"
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Jan 26, 2022 21:38
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Hadlock posted:Oh I literally just say, "everything I've read on line says not to ever give a number first, so I can't talk salary just yet but if we get to the offer stage we can definitely chat more about that later" and if they push I just say "I guess if you have to put a number, put zero but please notate that I declined to give a number at this stage" usually that gets an annoyed laugh but shuts them down immediately, just make sure you are polite This is a fine tactic if you must, but even better to name an obscene high number than a low one. Even if both parties know that someone is anchoring, it still has a psychological effect. "If you have to put a number down before we can proceed, I guess you can put down $300,000, but really I'm more interested in making sure we're both excited to work together than picking a number right now"
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Jan 26, 2022 22:00
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This logic worked for my wife, and they met it. Ultimately they weren't able to do $insane base pay, but she/we settled on $eyeopening base + $wow guaranteed annual bonus for N years on top of her  standard bonus. She was an unusually good fit for the position though, depends on how big of a lever you have and if you know how long it is.
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Jan 26, 2022 22:39
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Anyone have benchmark salaries for Director-level Customer Success positions in Big Tech? Been at my current role for a bit and starting to think about next steps...
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Jan 27, 2022 03:37
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Ok, I popped into the thread awhile ago. I’m in R&D and I’ve been shopping around for alternative employment. I’m fairly content in my current role, but it’s lost some of its excitement since I started. I’m also not seeing an opportunity to develop people management skills. So I put 2 applications out with engineering startups. One is a small (~10 person) early stage startup with $14M in the bank, the other is large (~200 people with $200M invested). Both claim about 2 years runway. My skillset is fairly rare, and both companies were basically looking for me. I got interviews with both companies that went well and I just got an offer from the later stage startup. First, my BATNA staying with my current firm: $138,000 base salary + $12,000 in 401K supplements. All vested, so it’s basically cash money. The offer: $147,000 base salary + options on 14900 shares of stock. They want an answer by next week. I don’t get benefits from my employer except for life insurance. (Wife got the bennies). There is not much difference there. What I have done so far: 1) I acknowledged receipt of the offer. 2) Emailed the other startup, letting them know I have some pressure on my timeline now. Now I’m trying to figure out how to counter offer. I’m not sure how to value the options, since they don’t have dollar figures on the stock and they aren’t public I’m thinking $0. I don’t want to take a cut to my total pay, in fact I’d probably only move if I was seeing a raise. I’d like to see them come up to $160k, so I might counter with $165 or $170… It’s hard to know how those numbers will fly. I could also use some help figuring out how to phase a counter offer.
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Jan 28, 2022 03:17
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As always, the value of the stock options is $0. Personally I would not dream of going to a startup, with the likelihood of deathmarch hours and conditions plus the risk of them abruptly running out of money that entails, for anything short of a big increase. I don't know your market at all, but I'd be countering much higher, especially since there are no bennies. Would seriously consider countering over $200K if I could do so without looking patently ridiculous. Is boredom/itch to advance really the only thing wrong with your current job? e: Do they know your current salary? Because that offer looks an awful lot like what you'd expect from a company that knows your current salary.
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Jan 28, 2022 03:34
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Dobbs_Head posted:Ok, I popped into the thread awhile ago. I’m in R&D and I’ve been shopping around for alternative employment. I’m fairly content in my current role, but it’s lost some of its excitement since I started. I’m also not seeing an opportunity to develop people management skills. If you're pressured to say a number before you get other offers in, I'd push 220 and let them walk you down to 190. if you can, hold out for your other offer.
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Jan 28, 2022 04:01
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Dobbs_Head posted:I’m also not seeing an opportunity to develop people management skills. Are either of the new jobs going to be managing people? If not, how would you get people management skills? My experience with start-ups is that they don't have the structure to do any employee development. They're looking to hire people who can already do what the company needs.
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Jan 28, 2022 04:52
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Depends on the size of the startup, a ~200 one is definitely going to have managers, a ~10 one probably won't.
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Jan 28, 2022 05:24
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I finally got a response for my request for as raise that I brought up in October. I knew it was going to take until the new year, but it's not going into effect until March, so let's call it 5 months of waiting. It's 10%, instead of the 20% I needed to stay at market in October, and honestly that gap is now closer to 25% now. Also, that 10% is basically the COLA from when I started in 2019 at a total of 8.8. If I had left in November and gotten my 20% (which I think was at least plausible considering the market), then in 5 months I would have already made up a big chunk of this raise. I mean, it's clear I have to leave now. I guess I should have left early last year when we found out we weren't getting raises again, but I tried to be understanding about Covid and I like the work and the team I work with. This is not me making an excuse. I woke up this morning knowing I hosed up bad, but this also isn't about or being 'woe is me'. I'm posting this to act as an object lesson: it's all good if everyone's posting when they're killing it and celebrating, but sometimes we need to be reminded of when we fail. I put comfort ahead of prosperity out of cowardice. I didn't put myself first, and that has cost me a reasonable of money over time, and not just at this job. Don't be like me. Here's the follow up question: In the past, my boss has told me that if I was going to look for another job, he would be willing to provide a reference. While I believe he is telling me the truth, that seems like a huge risk to take. My instinct is to simply let him know via my two weeks notice and not a moment before. Does anyone disagree?
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Jan 28, 2022 09:18
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Magnetic North posted:I finally got a response for my request for as raise that I brought up in October. I knew it was going to take until the new year, but it's not going into effect until March, so let's call it 5 months of waiting. It's 10%, instead of the 20% I needed to stay at market in October, and honestly that gap is now closer to 25% now. Also, that 10% is basically the COLA from when I started in 2019 at a total of 8.8. If I had left in November and gotten my 20% (which I think was at least plausible considering the market), then in 5 months I would have already made up a big chunk of this raise. Never ever tell work you are leaving until you have to in my opinion. They don’t have to give you two weeks notice if they poo poo can you. I also don’t believe you should tell them where you are going either. I personally wouldn’t use a former manager as a reference unless I really trusted them, which is very rare.
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Jan 28, 2022 12:59
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I don't know if I'd go that far, giving two weeks is customary and it seems unlikely very many places would actually do the paperwork to fire you first. HR and managers are lazy. But yeah don't tell them until you have a start date, signed the offer, are completely ready.
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Jan 28, 2022 13:28
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I've left nearly all my past jobs on good terms and I definitely ask past managers to act as a reference for me (and they agree and it works out well). But I wouldn't ask my current manager for a reference. That'd feel like a conflict of interest on their part and an unnecessary risk. I have asked current coworkers for a reference, but even there only when I felt absolutely confident that they had my back.
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Jan 28, 2022 13:56
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Magnetic North posted:Here's the follow up question: In the past, my boss has told me that if I was going to look for another job, he would be willing to provide a reference. While I believe he is telling me the truth, that seems like a huge risk to take. My instinct is to simply let him know via my two weeks notice and not a moment before. Does anyone disagree? You are 100% correct, under no circumstances let anyone find out you're actively seeking your next job except by giving your notice. Only exception is if you're definitely leaving regardless and are either 100% confident of finding a new job quickly or have enough savings to weather a long period of unemployment. But even then you risk someone upstairs getting pissed and vindictively loving with your efforts to find another job (Not Eligible For Rehire).
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Jan 28, 2022 14:57
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