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Young poor people with a lot of social pressure too keep up with the latest and the coolest that other, more well of kids had is a very vulnerable group as well.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:22
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It all sounds dystopian as gently caress to me. Which is why I hide in the forest.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:24
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watho posted:this is super reductive. people in desperate situations will do things that are harmful in the long run. yes obviously some people will just be young and dumb and not care about the future consequences but i think a lot of people who get hosed are poor people in a very desperate situation.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:25
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Doesn't growing up poor basically teach the idea that you should spend money immediately because you can either have a bit of fun now, or lose it to some bullshit? That's a pretty maladaptive strategy in an environment where you're given access to "free" money. yes 100% this has been my experience and it’s really hard to unlearn
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Jan 27, 2022 20:31
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A Buttery Pastry posted:Doesn't growing up poor basically teach the idea that you should spend money immediately because you can either have a bit of fun now, or lose it to some bullshit? That's a pretty maladaptive strategy in an environment where you're given access to "free" money. While I was growing up, my family generally had too much month at the end of the money. Along with teaching me to accept not just being able to get whatever I wanted, whenever I wanted it, I definitely also got some ingrained counter-productive habits. Stuff like toughing it out in clothes and shoes that were the wrong size, because "I paid good money for these!", and being almost pathologically unable to throw away or get rid of things, just in case I might someday need a screwdriver where only half of the tip had snapped off. I never had a sense of having to spend my money right away, because I might lose it because of reasons outside of my control. It just came naturally that I spent all of it mostly on essentials. But I did have a hard time adjusting to actually having money and being able to properly save up and even invest a little bit. That took me years to properly understand.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:34
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So we took Suzie to the vet to see if the distilled water lowered her iodine and her thyroid levels. It did. She's gained 140g in a month and a half, her thyroid is right in the normal range. But now her potassium and sodium are "high". Her kidneys are a bit damaged from being 16, hypertension, hyperthyroidism.... We can get a consult at the KU small animal nutrition clinic to design a diet for her for about 3500kr and then we can make up food for her to try to manage her kidneys. Poor little girl.  Ed: woops not the pet thread. Hell with it. Enjoy my cat. Rust Martialis fucked around with this message at 20:40 on Jan 27, 2022 |
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Jan 27, 2022 20:37
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I've got a shitton of debt that was way too easy to get, but that's largely on the fact that I had no starting capital to begin with and I had to like, buy poo poo to live and work. Nowhere near the levels of Lyxfällan and I've got it all managed so that I'm debt free in a couple of years, but I do feel there's a lot of immigrants in the same position. I don't think anyone ever told me that I could get a private loan for significantly less interest than getting a bunch of credit cards. Particularly poo poo like Klarna, it's everywhere and when you first arrive to Sweden it seems like such an incredible thing to be able to get part payments at almost any store. I think it being in English actually helps them a lot in that regard.
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Jan 27, 2022 20:50
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it’s scary how klarna managed to bypass my initial “credit cards are an obvious trap” check at first like i haven’t touched it in a while but it really shows the power of advertising
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Jan 27, 2022 20:56
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I'm sure there are a lot of poor people out there in bad situations they had little control over but a lot of the people in Lyxfällan are people who literally don't understand the basics of loans. They'll take a huge loan with a ridiculous interest rate and then buy a 2nd car. Like, they'll take new loans to buy luxury poo poo they have zero need for while they are massively in debt, hence the name "Lyxfällan"
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Jan 27, 2022 20:57
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Rust Martialis posted:So we took Suzie to the vet to see if the distilled water lowered her iodine and her thyroid levels. It did. She's gained 140g in a month and a half, her thyroid is right in the normal range. It's a good cat.
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Jan 27, 2022 21:30
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Zzulu posted:I'm sure there are a lot of poor people out there in bad situations they had little control over but a lot of the people in Lyxfällan are people who literally don't understand the basics of loans. They'll take a huge loan with a ridiculous interest rate and then buy a 2nd car. It just seems like financial illiteracy, in all honesty. I was incredibly lucky, my mom taught me about how to save, spend, credit cards, interest and budgeting. Financial independence is important but it is so easy to fall into traps, and many companies bank on you not knowing about those holes. Coupled with having the new latest what have you or else you’ll shrivel up and die, I get why a show like Lyxfällen exists. Why in Sweden, of all places, is what baffles me. Like drat, I’d expect to jump through a hoop that isn’t just “have a pulse” to get all these loans, or at least have some Byzantine regulation to prevent this.
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Jan 27, 2022 21:44
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Rust Martialis posted:So we took Suzie to the vet to see if the distilled water lowered her iodine and her thyroid levels. It did. She's gained 140g in a month and a half, her thyroid is right in the normal range. I hope your cat will be ok, please hug her for me.
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Jan 27, 2022 23:37
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those consumer debt things make my blood boil i'm extremely middle class but my household for various reasons was flat broke for periods of my childhood and i know that if i'd had to deny my kids as much stuff as my parents did for those years, a bit of debt to have something nice for once would've looked very tempting. this would've made things objectively worse. i can totally imagine another miserable evening chat over a cheap bottle of wine escalating to "gently caress it we're going on a holiday" or something
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Jan 28, 2022 00:49
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A lot of people take up consumer loans around Christmas, for instance
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Jan 28, 2022 12:19
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At my lowest point I had just quit uni halfway through cause of being a shithead and I had no income and ended up with kronofogdeskulder. I had a fair bit of money saved because my parents are middle class and had saved up quite a bit for me. I burned through that in 6 months because I wanted to keep up appearances with my friends. Could've easily ended up taking sms loans to be able to go to restaurants and drink beer with my buddies otherwise. Too dumb and proud to admit I was depressed and didn't have a plan. Luckily got out of it after that and vowed never to end up in debt in any way. Then I bought an apartment and will live with debt all my life 
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Jan 28, 2022 13:52
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Tbf the only people in Sweden who can buy an apartment without taking a loan to last a lifetime are people too rich to buy apartments instead of just humongous villas somewhere. I hate being indebted to *anyone* financially but there are two things in life I feel is inevitable that I’d have to loan for: education and housing. I suppose my comfortable upbringing coloured this perspective but yeah, sms loans are a blight on society, much like internet casinos.
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Jan 28, 2022 14:18
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BigglesSWE posted:Tbf the only people in Sweden who can buy an apartment without taking a loan to last a lifetime are people too rich to buy apartments instead of just humongous villas somewhere. I happened to work on internet casinos (literally the one company that hired me when I was fresh off the boat, I interviewed in like 20 different places). The people getting SMS loans to immediately gamble with that money were a significant chunk of revenue. Got bad enough to warrant a Kalla Fakta episode. Not saying the two systems work together, there isn't really any evidence of it, but there's plenty of incentives to put bad money to worse use.
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Jan 28, 2022 15:42
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I literally work at Kronofogden and yes, poo poo's bad. Some random stuff I'm pretty sure most of colleagues would agree absolutely sucks: - Lack of absolute prescription times for debts without security (aka sms-loans). Private collectors could sit on your debt for decades without sending it to fogden as long as they throw a letter your way every few years. - Lack of a realistic max limit on interest. They added a 40% limit (over the referensränta) just a few years ago. Meaning 39% interest is perfectly fine. Few lenders actually go this far but interests on sms-loans are already absurd. - Take the above and now add the fact that any collected cash goes towards interest first. Only when that is paid off can anything be put towards the main debt. Guess what happens when the amount you can pay off is smaller than the interest! Answer: you will literally never be free of your debt* - Rules that are easy to abuse. Take an invänding against a debt. We validate the debt and send it for collection (this is what turns your credit to poo poo). The debtor tells us that it's wrong because X. We then give the inkassobolag two weeks to explain themselves (usually to prove that they have in fact sent a letter to the correct adress every few years). They either ask for one or two extensions because they're slow/undermanned or just don't bother to answer at all. In the latter case the debt will be removed at which point they'll just send it in again. Afaik there's no rule against using the same judgement a hundred times if you need to. Either the debtor will tire or just miss it among all the other letters or you'll have bought yourself time to collect all that evidence that you should have prepared in the first two weeks. Intrum Justitia have become especially bad at this lately "but but but our mail can take weeks just to reach the correct person!" then loving fix your systems and hire more people fuuuck. My personal view is that we demand far too little of professional lenders while expecting too much of people whose lives are all too often in the gutter. One has the cash, knowledge and resources to take care of themselves while the other could use a helping hand rather than having more poo poo thrown their way. *Lenders will point to debt sanitation which, yeah, fair enough. Problem is that a lot of people are simply too exhausted, depressed or confused (applying is complicated) to use it. Others haven't even heard about in in the first place. Oh also take all this and add a difficulty with the Swedish language and/or a lack of knowledge of how the Swedish bureaucracy works! Gl hf.
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Jan 28, 2022 16:52
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Lehugo posted:I literally work at Kronofogden and yes, poo poo's bad. Some random stuff I'm pretty sure most of colleagues would agree absolutely sucks: When my dad died. Skatteverket kept charging preliminär skatt on his one-man company as if he was runningh it at full activity. By the time we could get them to cancel it the estate owed them 36000 kr worth of taxes on business he would be doing after his death (I know we get the money back next year) Anyway, we explained the situation, and they were like "yes that's fine. You can pay when the estate's funds are released." When the funds were released, we paid the taxes. But between us paying them and skatteverket acknowledging they received them. Skatteverket sent it to kronofogden, Then reduced the claim to just the 600 kr extra fee. We never got a claim so we could pay this fee. Instead, kronofogden took it out of the estate's account in the middle of a boupptäckning transaction. Which takes about 2 weeks to execute. So the transaction failed because the funds no longer matched, and we had to redo the entire process to do another transaction. Now a few months later I get angry letters from kronofogden to confirm in writing that I accept that they have taken the 600 kr.
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Jan 28, 2022 17:01
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Off topic men lol upptäckte precis att den beställda vitboken för SD bara täcker åren 1988-2010. Inga skandalösa medlemmar av not att dra upp efter det!
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Jan 28, 2022 17:02
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Lehugo posted:*Lenders will point to debt sanitation which, yeah, fair enough. Problem is that a lot of people are simply too exhausted, depressed or confused (applying is complicated) to use it. Others haven't even heard about in in the first place. This part is honestly pretty important. I did not realize I had accrued as much debt as I did, I just went "oh well I mean I gotta buy a plane ticket for my parents, I just don't have the money on me, so I'll split the payment", "I gotta buy furniture for the apartment but gently caress no I do not have 30k in my bank account, gotta get credit". It didn't really sink in until I actually went to all of the different lenders, tallied it all up, then ran the numbers and realized that even while paying 10000kr a month I'd be paying it back for something like 6 years just from interest. I don't think anybody ever tells you that you can just get a private loan from a bank to cover the total cost of credit card debt at a much lower interest. Sure, you still owe the same total amount, but what you're paying monthly ends up being much, much less, and it's all gone in a set amount of payments. Obviously someone with a poo poo credit rating is not gonna be able to do that, but it's something you can do before your credit rating tanks.
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Jan 28, 2022 17:32
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What's important to understand is that consumer loans are predatory. They're all about ease of access, portrayal of no consequences and sales/marketing pressure to consume rather than wait. Whether it be trips, an expensive fridge, a soffa or outright the casino it's the same baseline pitch to the lizard part of your brain designed to get around your warning mechanisms. Losers don't sit at home when their friends fly to Ibiza, here's 5000€ at the click of a button. Enjoy yourself champ, you've earned it. Everyone does it, why shouldn't you. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 17:42 on Jan 28, 2022 |
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Jan 28, 2022 17:39
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Feliday Melody posted:When my dad died. Skatteverket kept charging preliminär skatt on his one-man company as if he was runningh it at full activity. Handläggare at Skatteverket have some sort of weird idea where they think Kronofogden is able to reduce the size of debts willy-nilly. I've lost count of the number of people I've talked who go "but Skatteverket told me to call you to fix this!". It's like dude we collect the exact amount SKV tells us to collect neither more nor less. Then you get stuff like with your estate where they just reduce the size of the debt (to zero) without bothering to just recall the whole thing even when the debt wasn't really valid in the first place. Problem is that KFM doesn't know about the debt not being valid which means we make sure to collect that 600 SEK application fee. This isn't even hard for SKV to fix fnox posted:This part is honestly pretty important. I did not realize I had accrued as much debt as I did, I just went "oh well I mean I gotta buy a plane ticket for my parents, I just don't have the money on me, so I'll split the payment", "I gotta buy furniture for the apartment but gently caress no I do not have 30k in my bank account, gotta get credit". It didn't really sink in until I actually went to all of the different lenders, tallied it all up, then ran the numbers and realized that even while paying 10000kr a month I'd be paying it back for something like 6 years just from interest. MiddleOne posted:What's important to understand is that consumer loans are predatory. They're all about ease of access, portrayal of no consequences and sales/marketing pressure to consume rather than wait. Whether it be trips, an expensive fridge, a soffa or outright the casino it's the same baseline pitch to the lizard part of your brain designed to get around your warning mechanisms. The lack of restrictions on advertising (and in general) for loans and online casinos is just utterly baffling. Couple that with the lack of information on better loans and ways to manage your economy and stuff gets real bad. It causes tons of pain for way more Swedes than most people think, reality is far worse than Lyxfällan.
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Jan 28, 2022 17:54
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Suzie is a good girl and I wish her all the best.
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Jan 28, 2022 17:58
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Zulily Zoetrope posted:Suzie is a good girl and I wish her all the best. 
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Jan 28, 2022 18:01
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Lehugo posted:Problem is that KFM doesn't know about the debt not being valid which means we make sure to collect that 600 SEK application fee. This isn't even hard for SKV to fix Yes, I talked to someone at Skatteverket about it, and she asked me "Well who's going to pay the 600 kr then if not the estate?" I responded "you? skatteverket? It's your screwup after all" She laughed nervously, and I just dropped it because this is a issue way beyond the poor human who has to answer the phone when I call.
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Jan 28, 2022 18:15
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Feliday Melody posted:Yes, I talked to someone at Skatteverket about it, and she asked me "Well who's going to pay the 600 kr then if not the estate?" I responded "you? skatteverket? It's your screwup after all" She laughed nervously, and I just dropped it because this is a issue way beyond the poor human who has to answer the phone when I call. They screw up with this all the time. I'm not sure if they have any laws or internal rules about it but from KFM's point of view it's absolutely nonsensical. If there wasn't supposed to be any debt in the first place and it wasn't the debtor's fault then you recall the whole thing and pay the fee yourself. This is doubly baffling in SKV's case because it's just 600 SEK going from one goverment budget to another. e: In their defense it's not all the time but I do speak with several people a year about this and all my colleagues do as well.
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Jan 28, 2022 18:30
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MiddleOne posted:What's important to understand is that consumer loans are predatory. They're all about ease of access, portrayal of no consequences and sales/marketing pressure to consume rather than wait. Whether it be trips, an expensive fridge, a soffa or outright the casino it's the same baseline pitch to the lizard part of your brain designed to get around your warning mechanisms. I still struggle to understand the lack of forethought that goes into borrowing money that you can't afford to pay back at ridiculous interest rates. Do people not understand that you have to pay it back, and that if you couldn't afford to pay for your Ibiza trip out of pocket, then you 1000% cannot afford to borrow money for it?
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Jan 28, 2022 18:45
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Mymla posted:I still struggle to understand the lack of forethought that goes into borrowing money that you can't afford to pay back at ridiculous interest rates. Do people not understand that you have to pay it back, and that if you couldn't afford to pay for your Ibiza trip out of pocket, then you 1000% cannot afford to borrow money for it? There is a subset of people who genuinely don't understand the concept of compounded interest. They go "10.000:- of STUFF for only 319:- per month?? That's a great deal!" and ignore that it takes until the heat death of the universe and cost a fortune to repay at that rate
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Jan 28, 2022 18:51
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Mymla posted:I still struggle to understand the lack of forethought that goes into borrowing money that you can't afford to pay back at ridiculous interest rates. Do people not understand that you have to pay it back, and that if you couldn't afford to pay for your Ibiza trip out of pocket, then you 1000% cannot afford to borrow money for it? Yes, a LOT of people don’t understand it. Regardless of country, financial illiteracy meets consumerism is how uh, we got here. I wasn’t taught in school anything more than calculating percentages and rudimentary budgeting. From what I can tell here, it’s kinda the same. I think that’s downright criminal.
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Jan 28, 2022 18:55
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There is a very good reaons why the ads and marketing for the sms-loans is so confusing and looks like it's really cheap It's because it works. It's also a matter of just not having a lot of money for some people, which is a bigger group than a lot of people think. Maybe you're a student, or have trouble getting a job (or keeping it) which can be for a gazillion different reasons. Regardless, it can mean that everything is in the balance all the time and something going wrong means you're in the red. Like, your fridge breaks or your bike gets stolen, and you're hosed. Or maybe everything just feels like poo poo and you go out drinking, even though you know you can't really afford it this months. Possible you think you can stretch what you have left to cover food for the rest of the month,, so you can afford to get nice shoes or whatever, maybe you've also bought the ps5 on credit, just to stave off the relenless nightmare of late stage capitalism world, but then oops, there is the electricity bill you forgot about and now they're gonna turn off the power if you don't pay. Also, you're already a month behind on the rent, so you can't use that to cover it. Your normal bank obviously says no to help because of your lack of consistent income and your risk, but the SMS loan companies wont (despite probably being owned your normal bank anyway). I grew up quite poor, but somehow managed eventually not be too bad with money, but I have an acquaintance who through being a kinda of a dumbass and a series unlucky events, ended up being super desperate and started loaning like 5000 in a month from a sms-loan company to try and pay for various basic things. He would pay it off one the first of the month, then take another loan at the end of the month. Of course eventually something went wrong and he couldn't afford to pay it back quickly and between the late fees, the control fees, the contact fees, the administration fees, and the exorbiant interests rates, the only thing he could do was loan from other sms-loan companies, to pay off the first ones. He ended up loaning like 25k. 25k might not seem like that much if you're a computer toucher or something, but for him it was entirely and completely insurmountable and he just gave up. He has his poo poo more together now but it was like a decade of him being miserable and shameful and in denial and what not.
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Jan 28, 2022 19:20
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Revelation 2-13 posted:There is a very good reaons why the ads and marketing for the sms-loans is so confusing and looks like it's really cheap It's because it works. I used to work in online marketing, and it will hardly surprise anyone that our main clients were companies involved in online gambling and the SMS loan trade (either companies directly offering these services or affiliates). It's been a while so my memory is starting to fade, but advertising for these loans has to be "måttfull", which I don't think has an official definition but which 100% of the actors we dealt with chose to interpret as "never mention consumer loans as something you take out purely for consumption" (yeah I know). So any article with lines like "finance your round-the-world trip with a payday loan" would get sent back with a strongly worded email, but "it's the 23rd and you need to pay the plumber for an emergency service but your account is empty? A consumer loan might help bridge the gap until your next salary payment" was perfectly fine. And while on the surface it might look like the responsible way to advertise these loans, it's insidious - it legitimises and normalises their use. For every idiot that goes "yeah I'll just take out a loan for this Ibiza trip" there's someone who legitimately struggles to make ends meet, often through no fault of their own, and then ends up in a debt trap (one that could perhaps have been avoided with better financial literacy). Consumer loans become just another tool in the limited resources toolbox.
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Jan 28, 2022 22:23
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Runt 200 rapporter om drönare men inga tecken på främmande maktquote:(...) Emphasis mine. Refreshingly straightforward and honest answers by this cop  Interesting to note also that not a single observation has been made during daylight.
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Jan 29, 2022 12:54
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TheFluff posted:Runt 200 rapporter om drönare men inga tecken på främmande makt Yes, I'm sure that drone the size of a station-wagon that lifted off from a ship in the Baltic and swept Swedish east coast military installations during Aurora was just a hobby flier.
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Jan 29, 2022 13:14
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Feliday Melody posted:Yes, I'm sure that drone the size of a station-wagon that lifted off from a ship in the Baltic and swept Swedish east coast military installations during Aurora was just a hobby flier. Never heard of it. What is your source for this claim? (If this existed and was documented it would be the kind of thing that leads to a diplomatic protest about airspace violations, and since I haven't heard or any of those...) TheFluff fucked around with this message at 13:26 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 13:20
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TheFluff posted:Never heard of it. What is your source for this claim? I know for a fact that Russia uses drones to spy on our installations. I don't know if any of the latest sightings are related to that, but I don't really care. We should disable all drones that get close to our installations anyway. What I can't figure out is why you are so deeply personally invested in convincing people otherwise.
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Jan 29, 2022 13:35
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Feliday Melody posted:I know for a fact that Russia uses drones to spy on our installations. I don't know if any of the latest sightings are related to that, but I don't really care. We should disable all drones that get close to our installations anyway.
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Jan 29, 2022 13:58
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A Buttery Pastry posted:What evidence do you have of these Russian drones? There's no scenario in the entire world where I tell you something that you can't find by google.
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Jan 29, 2022 14:07
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Feliday Melody posted:There's no scenario in the entire world where I tell you something that you can't find by google. Not to belabor the issue but you should at least provide one Google link then
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Jan 29, 2022 14:17
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Rust Martialis posted:Not to belabor the issue but you should at least provide one Google link then It's not on Google. Not that I could find, anyway. Which is why I'm not getting into details. I don't care if you believe me. I'm not looking to win an argument. The point is, posts like these cannot be left unchallenged. TheFluff posted:Runt 200 rapporter om drönare men inga tecken på främmande makt It's a thing. Don't be dumb about drones around military installations or nuclear power plants. And don't make it your personal mission to convince other people to be dumb about it. Use your brain. Feliday Melody fucked around with this message at 14:25 on Jan 29, 2022 |
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Jan 29, 2022 14:23
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