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cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
Any time a dungeon allow a triple pull, you should probably hallowed/bolide it, just because that's by far the most efficient mitigation tool in your toolbox. Doubly so if it's a quad pull, or if the enemies in the triple are especially strong (like Mt Gulg)

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Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


cheetah7071 posted:

I think fell cleave was a lot more impressive when it wasn't like, a full 30% of the buttons you press, but something that came up two or three times a minute

I think paladin has the right idea for classes whose rotations do involve segments of 1-1-1. You need to at least change the animation to keep it more engaging, as the bare minimum (even though I'd prefer in general to be pressing a different button every GCD). Fell cleave getting increasingly over-the-top as you spam it during inner release would go a long way, I think

I feel like paladin might have it the worst since you need to count your casts during requiscat since you need to finish with the other ability.

With warrior you can just spam till you run out. (Also 3 is easy enough not to lose track of.)

Gnashing fang in GNB feels mostly fine to me since you alternate back and forth with continuation.

Magres
Jul 14, 2011
the best part about old dungeons is when you can pull 4+ packs and make your healer friend screech in panic over voice comms

its not wall to "however much i can handle" and im gonna find that second wall come hell or high water

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice
I actually think paladin in shb got the 1-1-1-1 rotation right. Four casts of holy spirit is enough that counting provides a similar mental load to running your fingers along the combo bar, and the fact that you're watching your MP bar instead of a buff feels different even if it amounts to the same thing.

Blueberry Pancakes
Aug 18, 2012

Jack in!! MegaMan, Execute!
I am farming cards for the Triple Triad mount and Field Notes for the mount.

I have developed a seething hatred for RNG that will continue to burn for all eternity. I never want to see Ghimlyt Dark ever again once I get this lousy Prometheus card.

rantmo
Jul 30, 2003

A smile better suits a hero



cheetah7071 posted:

I actually think paladin in shb got the 1-1-1-1 rotation right. Four casts of holy spirit is enough that counting provides a similar mental load to running your fingers along the combo bar, and the fact that you're watching your MP bar instead of a buff feels different even if it amounts to the same thing.

Having the buff that shows your Requiescat stacks has been massively helpful for me, if I lose track, I can confirm where I am really easily.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Mr. Nice! posted:

I'm i585.
WAR: 2135 crit, 2205 det, 400 dh, 400 skill speed, 1149 tenacity - 2.5 GCD
PLD: 2111 crit, 2205 det, 400 dh, 436 ss, 1137 tenacity - 2.49 gcd

I'm coming up with 300 dps difference on the Stone Sea Sky for the Final Day. I've done it multiple times on both jobs. WAR finishes 5-6 seconds faster and ACT reads 4.9-5k for war vs 4.6-4.7k dps for PLD.

I might be able to up the PLD dps if I were melded with DH instead of tenacity, but I don't know that it closes that gap still.

You are very likely missing 11 GCD Fight Or Flights with a 2.49 GCD. It is technically still possible, but you only have 0.04ish seconds of leeway, so it's going to be very difficult to get consistently. More Skill Speed is going to be a bigger increase than anything else you could do and even if you play both WAR and PLD, WAR is perfectly fine running a 2.44-2.46 GCD.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

WrightOfWay posted:

You are very likely missing 11 GCD Fight Or Flights with a 2.49 GCD. It is technically still possible, but you only have 0.04ish seconds of leeway, so it's going to be very difficult to get consistently. More Skill Speed is going to be a bigger increase than anything else you could do and even if you play both WAR and PLD, WAR is perfectly fine running a 2.44-2.46 GCD.

I hit FoF right before goring blade and it was still up every time I hit resquiat through that test. I would have bumped up the SS if I was missing it. I will say there was one time I circle of scorned early instead of waiting a few seconds to hit it under FoF, but it isn't 300 dps worth of difference.

Getting more from raid buffs that boost DH is definitely a thing, though, and looking at FFlogs PLD and WAR are pretty much neck and neck at the top.


I also went from 2.41 gcd to 2.5 on my war because I do more damage that way. I don't benefit at all from skillspeed on war, and I'm currently parsing in the upper 80s without an upgraded weapon. The tenacity increase on warrior is worth much more than any skillspeed, at least in my personal experience.

If I were remelding for PLD I wouldn't add much (or any) speed and would just drop in DH unless I noticed I wasn't getting resquiat in with FoF.

I am gonna run PLD some with my static to see how it goes.

Mr. Nice! fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jan 28, 2022

cheetah7071
Oct 20, 2010

honk honk
College Slice

rantmo posted:

Having the buff that shows your Requiescat stacks has been massively helpful for me, if I lose track, I can confirm where I am really easily.

yeah it's helpful but, I like it when classes are a bit tough to keep track of

Steelion
Aug 2, 2009

Mr. Nice! posted:

I hit FoF right before goring blade and it was still up every time I hit resquiat through that test. I would have bumped up the SS if I was missing it. I will say there was one time I circle of scorned early instead of waiting a few seconds to hit it under FoF, but it isn't 300 dps worth of difference.

Getting more from raid buffs that boost DH is definitely a thing, though, and looking at FFlogs PLD and WAR are pretty much neck and neck at the top.


I also went from 2.41 gcd to 2.5 on my war because I do more damage that way. I don't benefit at all from skillspeed on war, and I'm currently parsing in the upper 80s without an upgraded weapon. The tenacity increase on warrior is worth much more than any skillspeed, at least in my personal experience.

If I were remelding for PLD I wouldn't add much (or any) speed and would just drop in DH unless I noticed I wasn't getting resquiat in with FoF.

I am gonna run PLD some with my static to see how it goes.

Requiescat isn't affected by FoF anymore, it's unaspected non-physical damage. This doesn't change anything, since you're using it under FoF in any sensible situation, but it is something to remember.

Also yeah more sks lets you squeeze in an extra buffed Riot Blade every rotation, which is almost certainly worth more than extra tenacity.

Mr. Nice!
Oct 13, 2005

bone shaking.
soul baking.

Steelion posted:

Requiescat isn't affected by FoF anymore, it's unaspected non-physical damage. This doesn't change anything, since you're using it under FoF in any sensible situation, but it is something to remember.

Also yeah more sks lets you squeeze in an extra buffed Riot Blade every rotation, which is almost certainly worth more than extra tenacity.

That would definitely make a difference for sure. I may throw together a SS gearset for PLD to mess around more with this.

Kazy
Oct 23, 2006

0x38: FLOPPY_INTERNAL_ERROR

Keep Living Dead as is, but add Blood Weapon from FFXI and you have to deal enough damage to drain enemies to heal yourself back up to full.

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Kazy posted:

Keep Living Dead as is, but add Blood Weapon from FFXI and you have to deal enough damage to drain enemies to heal yourself back up to full.

It's so weird to me that blood weapon doesn't give you HP drain, it really seems like it should. That would certainly solve DRK's lack of self healing buttons.

Pollyanna
Mar 5, 2005

Milk's on them.


Wait, it doesn't? I could have sworn it did.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
I am not an expert on DRK history; maybe it did at one point but it doesn't now. And yes, that's weird.

Begemot
Oct 14, 2012

The One True Oden

Pollyanna posted:

Wait, it doesn't? I could have sworn it did.

Nope!



It's only 600 MP and 10 blood gauge with each hit. Abyss Drain is the only self-healing they have.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
The 3rd hit of the single target melee combo has a little heal attached to it (same for WAR).

Edit: Souleater.

Clarste fucked around with this message at 01:00 on Jan 29, 2022

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
Souleater drains hp too.

Clarste
Apr 15, 2013

Just how many mistakes have you suffered on the way here?

An uncountable number, to be sure.
Looking it up, Paladin is the only tank that doesn't have a small heal attached to their basic combo.

GiantRockFromSpace
Mar 1, 2019

Just Cram It


Clarste posted:

Looking it up, Paladin is the only tank that doesn't have a small heal attached to their basic combo.

Yeah, cause it's attached to their spells, although only in the late 80s.

Orcs and Ostriches
Aug 26, 2010


The Great Twist
It was initially because they just have higher passive mitigation.

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


Orcs and Ostriches posted:

It was initially because they just have higher passive mitigation.

Though in practice, having one fewer cooldown and no OGCD heal meant they were generally a bit frailer than GNB and especially WAR in ShB.

Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

I usually go for 10 gcd FoF instead of 11 and im on a 2.42 GCD. I lose dps but the flex I have while doing mechanics and stuff so that I always get 2 FoF Goring Blades is worth it IMO. Also on my ping it's kinda hard to get all 11 in even on a training dummy.

The Black Stones
May 7, 2007

I POSTED WHAT NOW!?

Clarste posted:

I am not an expert on DRK history; maybe it did at one point but it doesn't now. And yes, that's weird.

I remember DRK having healing spam HP attack when I played during Stormblood. So levelling it to 90 was odd for EW because I felt so weak doing FATE’s. Doing FATE’s as a WAR? I’ll pull the whole drat FATE mob, I can’t die! Pull as DRK “oh no. I couldn’t possibly pull that much. I could hurt myself”

WrightOfWay
Jul 24, 2010


The Black Stones posted:

I remember DRK having healing spam HP attack when I played during Stormblood. So levelling it to 90 was odd for EW because I felt so weak doing FATE’s. Doing FATE’s as a WAR? I’ll pull the whole drat FATE mob, I can’t die! Pull as DRK “oh no. I couldn’t possibly pull that much. I could hurt myself”

Back in HW and StB when Abyssal Drain was a GCD Dark Arts gave it HP drain. It was expensive, but if you dropped Grit and used Blood Weapon Quietus you could basically instantly restore a full MP bar in one GCD . It was a lot of fun.

Hogama
Sep 3, 2011
Souleater used to heal a percentage of the damage dealt (it's strictly a 300 potency cure now) and in Stormblood DRK still had Sole Survivor, which would heal 30% HP/MP if the target died and 20% HP/MP if the duration expired first. Abyssal Drain was also spammable (you just needed Dark Arts for the drain effect). That's three pretty strong healing tools that are greatly neutered or gone by now.

Mad Science
Jul 23, 2013
Dark Arts Abyssal Drain in huge dungeon pulls back then is what doing dungeons on WAR now felt like. I miss it. :smith:

Vargs
Mar 27, 2010

Finally finished Endwalker after starting ARR several months ago. Kinda glad that my prior attempts to get into it failed since it was certainly an experience going through the entire story without having to wait years between expansions. Honestly one of my all-time favorite games now.




Unfortunately it is now going to be impossible to give a poo poo about GW2 or WoW ever again.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012

Eukrasia proves that something like Dark Arts can still work with how the game is currently designed so they should bring it back in some form for DRK in 7.0

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?


Harrow posted:

Eukrasia proves that something like Dark Arts can still work with how the game is currently designed so they should bring it back in some form for DRK in 7.0

I just want the sick guitar lick that played whenever you used it back

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

Harrow posted:

Eukrasia proves that something like Dark Arts can still work with how the game is currently designed so they should bring it back in some form for DRK in 7.0

what you're gonna get is Unmend 2

Chillgamesh
Jul 29, 2014

What's the JP community make of 6.0 DRK? I know they hated 6.0 NIN big time so I was wondering if they thought DRK also needed some changes.

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.

cheetah7071 posted:

I think fell cleave was a lot more impressive when it wasn't like, a full 30% of the buttons you press, but something that came up two or three times a minute

I think paladin has the right idea for classes whose rotations do involve segments of 1-1-1. You need to at least change the animation to keep it more engaging, as the bare minimum (even though I'd prefer in general to be pressing a different button every GCD). Fell cleave getting increasingly over-the-top as you spam it during inner release would go a long way, I think

IMO that's why I like the Gunbreaker continuation combo better. It serves the same purpose as warriors rounding the corner into Fel Cleave alley while being a lot more visually interesting. It helps that I rank gunbreaker on par with warrior in terms of good sound and animation design.

Antaris
Feb 18, 2011

I'm considering the move to the new Oceanic data center just because that latency is too good to pass up. Did the Oceanic FC end up moving to a new server over there or are they still on Elemental?

Badger of Basra
Jul 26, 2007

did the 6.08 changes to blm make the weird transpose/paradox rotation nonviable

admanb
Jun 18, 2014

Badger of Basra posted:

did the 6.08 changes to blm make the weird transpose/paradox rotation nonviable

Not sure how pure buffs could make something that was viable nonviable.

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.

admanb posted:

Not sure how pure buffs could make something that was viable nonviable.

Fire3/4 got buffed and the cursed paradox spam rotation didn't use either of those. It's an indirect nerf as a means to get people to stop doing the cursed paradox rotation.

DeathSandwich
Apr 24, 2008

I fucking hate puzzles.
Quote is not edit

Xun
Apr 25, 2010

DeathSandwich posted:

Fire3/4 got buffed and the cursed paradox spam rotation didn't use either of those as a means to get people to stop doing the cursed paradox rotation.

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Ibblebibble
Nov 12, 2013

Antaris posted:

I'm considering the move to the new Oceanic data center just because that latency is too good to pass up. Did the Oceanic FC end up moving to a new server over there or are they still on Elemental?

Breaking of the fellowship, basically. People who didn't move over are still with the FC on Elemental. I think most people who moved to Materia joined pubbie FCs.

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