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Fame Douglas posted:Or maybe shoplifting is an actual problem and that's why companies are closing stores and backing stronger laws? Tons of shoplifting not being reported to the police isn't surprising, either. I really don't get this attempt at trying to force people into not believing their lying eyes about shoplifting being a growing problem. If the profitability of these stores is less than it would cost to provide security for them, well, the free market has spoken.
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Jan 30, 2022 01:19
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FLIPADELPHIA posted:If the profitability of these stores is less than it would cost to provide security for them, well, the free market has spoken. Maybe it's a problem for society (stronger laws as well as a social security net) to solve, I don't think store security is the answer here. the_steve posted:Closing the stores let's them put pressure on getting the other poo poo that they want. They're clearly not making "record profits" at stores that are being closed, though. And they're not angling for tax incentives, either. I don't get this post. Maybe just accept that retail theft is up? It's pretty weird people have a need to invent alternative facts. Fame Douglas fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 01:36
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shoplifting is forcing our hand and that's why we have to jack up our prices. You should definitely blame an external factor like that and not look at our billions in record profits and start asking inconvenient questions. And hey, we might be persuaded to stay if you offer us some sweet tax incentives on top of it all."
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Discendo Vox posted:Why does it make it easier? Do you see why telling people that you can more easily probate people if they do or if they don't engage with trolls causes a problem? You know there's a mod feedback thread going on right now, right? It's tailor-made for all your pressing modding concerns.
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Jan 30, 2022 01:52
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Yeah, come on, of course we need more laws and more money for police. You think corporate PR departments would just lie like that?
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Jan 30, 2022 01:55
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Fame Douglas posted:They're clearly not making "record profits" at stores that are being closed, though. And they're not angling for tax incentives, either. I don't get this post. Maybe just accept that retail theft is up? It's pretty weird people have a need to invent alternative facts. Lol. "The Walmart in Bumfuck Iowa lost a few bucks from shoplifting, ergo the Walmart corporation did not make billions in profits."
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Jan 30, 2022 02:08
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The world we've built has overcome what we'll call the natural world, and it's momentum and capture is so great that even nations cannot stop it. It's a machine, an algorithm, that produces objectively bad products, and nobody is truly in control. Does that encapsulate this shoplifting debate?
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Jan 30, 2022 02:18
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Fame Douglas posted:Maybe it's a problem for society (stronger laws ) to solve Are you really suggesting increasing the policing and incarceration rate of the poor? This is straight up "tough on crime" rhetoric.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:22
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Bottom Liner posted:Are you really suggesting increasing the policing and incarceration rate of the poor? Are you really suggesting letting violent offenders roam free? BRJohnson posted:The world we've built has overcome what we'll call the natural world, and it's momentum and capture is so great that even nations cannot stop it. It's a machine, an algorithm, that produces objectively bad products, and nobody is truly in control. Does that encapsulate this shoplifting debate? It's a California problem, not some kind of "natural world" issue.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:23
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Fame Douglas posted:Are you really suggesting letting violent offenders roam free? Shoplifting isnt a violent crime
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Jan 30, 2022 02:33
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Retail theft itself isn't a major crime, but to be fair, the major organized retail thefts are different than someone sneaking a candy bar or 12-pack of soda past the self checkout aisle. Retail theft is also one of those things where a single incident has no real impact at all in a vacuum, but if everyone did it, then it would actually make it impossible for anyone else to function normally. As mentioned earlier, most retail theft is done by either people with addictions/mental health issues, employees, or organized groups and not people stealing bread to live. The solution is to both fix the root causes and also not allow so much theft that it actually impacts people's lives, jobs, and access to goods. Leon Trotsky 2012 fucked around with this message at 02:57 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 02:55
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https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1487107786609676289?t=8qP6OChmIb79ILWlgL5Jlw&s=19 If anyone ever needs ammo to disregard Candace Owens in the future. Here it is.
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Jan 30, 2022 02:59
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guy picking up a single .556 round in a division-level weapons stockpile 'we've finally found some ammo!'
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Jan 30, 2022 03:02
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Artonos posted:If anyone ever needs ammo to disregard Candace Owens in the future. Here it is.  add it to the pile e:f;b (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2022 03:04
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Artonos posted:https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1487107786609676289?t=8qP6OChmIb79ILWlgL5Jlw&s=19
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Jan 30, 2022 03:24
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Discendo Vox posted:
Going from rhetorical ammunition to a pile of firearm ammunition in reference to a public figure is a bad look.
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Jan 30, 2022 03:28
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Discendo Vox posted:
That is a loaded image But for real name change to BRJurgis please just for posting in this thread is that a service?
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Jan 30, 2022 03:31
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BRJohnson posted:That is a loaded image You don't have PMs so I'll respond briefly here- Huh? You'd like your username changed to BRJurgis? Best bet is to PM an admin, that's not something mods can queue or do. edit: try Hand Knit oh woops I guess you can't because you don't have PMs. "New Username" is a paid feature. Try that unless there's a good reason you need a name change that we can justify to the admins and Jeff. Fritz the Horse fucked around with this message at 03:39 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 03:35
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Fame Douglas posted:Are you really suggesting letting violent offenders roam free? CommieGIR posted:Either call out the trolling, refute the trolls points, or just ignore the obvious. I'm calling this out as more than trolling. They are continually posting disingenuous bigotry and a 6'er did nothing to stop or slow it.
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Jan 30, 2022 03:47
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Bottom Liner posted:I'm calling this out as more than trolling. They are continually posting disingenuous bigotry and a 6'er did nothing to stop or slow it. I don't think the previous petercat posts or the one from fame douglas that you quoted were good posts, but what's the line for bigotry that those posts crossed? What was so bad about those views that they can't be tolerated?
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Jan 30, 2022 04:00
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Fame Douglas posted:Are you really suggesting letting violent offenders roam free? Back this: Show how shoplifters are 'Violent Offenders' especially since some of the most shoplifted items include Meat, Razors, Baby Products, and Food products to name a few. How is incarcerating these people going to make this better? Shoplifting in most cases is a sign of a system that has failed to provide the necessities and your solution is....what, to call them violent offenders and expand police presence? When has increasing incarceration and police enforcement ever resulted in fixing crime issues? If it did Louisiana would be the safest state in the Union.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:01
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Fame Douglas posted:Or maybe shoplifting is an actual problem and that's why companies are closing stores and backing stronger laws? Tons of shoplifting not being reported to the police isn't surprising, either. I really don't get this attempt at trying to force people into not believing their lying eyes about shoplifting being a growing problem. Read those articles, it's not your lying eyes, you're just being prideful about being lied to. Do you really want to be so dumb you got tricked by Walgreens, the third tier pharmacy?
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Jan 30, 2022 04:02
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Bottom Liner posted:I'm calling this out as more than trolling. They are continually posting disingenuous bigotry and a 6'er did nothing to stop or slow it. Dissenting political opinions and lazy disingenuous arguments while frustrating does not constitute trolling. I would know. I have credentials.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:12
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Fame Douglas posted:Maybe it's a problem for society (stronger laws as well as a social security net) to solve, I don't think store security is the answer here. They're owned by rich people who are reacting to current social events and are working up crimes to then back bills to further criminalize being poor. Hey look, more evidence it's a manufactured narrative. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/shoplifting-holiday-theft-panic/621108/ this also gets into how shoplifting laws even have gotten tougher and it's done nothing.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:20
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Gumball Gumption posted:They're owned by rich people who are reacting to current social events and are working up crimes to then back bills to further criminalize being poor. Hey look, more evidence it's a manufactured narrative. https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/12/shoplifting-holiday-theft-panic/621108/ this also gets into how shoplifting laws even have gotten tougher and it's done nothing.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:32
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CommieGIR posted:Back this: Show how shoplifters are 'Violent Offenders' especially since some of the most shoplifted items include Meat, Razors, Baby Products, and Food products to name a few. You don't remember the "A 13 year old stole a Twix" massacre of 94?
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Jan 30, 2022 05:03
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the_steve posted:You don't remember the "A 13 year old stole a Twix" massacre of 94? This zinger is not actually a substantive response to the request to provide support for a claim that shoplifters are "violent offenders." Unless you're referencing an actual historical event in which case I would invite you to elaborate.
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Jan 30, 2022 05:18
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Fritz the Horse posted:This zinger is not actually a substantive response to the request to provide support for a claim that shoplifters are "violent offenders." Lol maybe take a breather
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Jan 30, 2022 05:53
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Fritz the Horse posted:This zinger is not actually a substantive response to the request to provide support for a claim that shoplifters are "violent offenders." Performative decorum or parody, honestly can’t tell at this point.
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Jan 30, 2022 05:55
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Fritz the Horse posted:This zinger is not actually a substantive response to the request to provide support for a claim that shoplifters are "violent offenders." This is an absolute parody of D&D moderation (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2022 06:26
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the_steve posted:Closing the stores let's them put pressure on getting the other poo poo that they want. This is just an observation from my corner of the industry but in my experience most companies don't want to give the impression that shoplifting has run amuck. The news loves it because it makes people freak out and the cops love it, and conservatives love it, obviously, so any place where you have an overlap between an industry insider and one of those other groups they're going to make hay about it. But shoplifting as an issue actually depresses legitimate business; people don't really want to go to a store where people are flipping off employees and throwing things and stealing on a regular basis and yes all of those behaviors are common among shoplifters. Stores, for the most part, want to minimize the appearance of unsafety, individual exceptions notwithstanding. Shoplifting is a contributing factor to retail closure because retail has thin margins and always has. But a big box store could structure themselves to absorb more of those blows if they wanted to; they've been using the same business models they've been using since the 80's and only now have a few started to change by degrees while screaming and clinging to the past. Moving to smaller establishments with more focused products manned by fewer people with more experience is probably the model you'll see more of 10-20 years from now, assuming the industry doesn't just collapse, of course. Midwest areas with fewer downtowns will probably still have megastores though. Store security is never going to solve theft. This may surprise you, but civilians cannot stop retail theft. It is (and should be) illegal for a guy in a blue jumpsuit to physically stop a thief. A security guard may deter, record, and communicate; that is their job. In fact, police will never solve theft either, because the police will never be there when theft occurs. Again, shoplifting is a social ill and as a crime it happens in literal seconds. The police might be able to break up a truly huge theft ring but they aren't going to be stopping Target thefts unless they set up camp inside the electronics department. Shoplifting is a very curious crime that is very hard to stop. We mostly apply gentle social pressures where we can, making sure not to put people in danger if it can be avoided and letting things go when it becomes clear a thief is immune to those kinds of pressures. We record when possible to hopefully identify individuals in the future, since repeat offenders might (if you're lucky) get a legal trespass against them. What you don't do is let untrained people go off half-cocked chasing potentially dangerous and desperate people down the street to retrieve 129.99 worth of product. Fame Douglas posted:Are you really suggesting letting violent offenders roam free? Stronger laws do not help the problem. The turnaround on shoplifters is obviously problematic but I can tell you that over 50% of retail theft events are novel, meaning it is a person that store has never seen before each time it happens. The police cannot solve the shoplifting issue when it becomes a problem more broadly. Shoplifting is a handy excuse to shake people down, and it always will be, so 'stronger laws' will just make it easier for the police to stop people, not actually solve anything. Here is how most retail theft events go down: 10:15 - Someone enters the store who meets several obvious red-flag criteria. Visible signs of drug use, obvious attempt to conceal identity, multiple unnecessary bags, avoids contact, heads through multiple high-theft areas. Begins haphazardly gathering high theft product, behaving strangely. 10:17 - Subject is now being observed by store personnel. They have gathered several object, including at least on high ticket item. They will call for management. 10:18 - Management arrives, the subject has concealed several objects. Management attempts to record subject's likeness, subject heads for the doors. Original employee calls the police. 10:19 - The subject has left and proceeds on foot off of company property. Management will stop at the door to observe if the subject heads in any particular direction or gets into a vehicle. They note subject is headed vaguely eastbound on foot. 10:21 - Original employee has finished talking with the police, has given a description, and last known location. 4:51 - The police arrive for a report. Double Edit: gently caress the police, but I don't even fault the police for this. It isn't a funding or personnel issue. Unless they are literally in our parking lot, they are never going to find this person. They have changed, concealed the items, and are in the bushes before anyone can even get dispatched. You can't solve this problem with police. Mendrian fucked around with this message at 06:48 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 06:38
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some plague rats posted:This is an absolute parody of D&D moderation No. The post doesn't seem to be disqualifying for modship. If I understand the situation correctly, it was perceived that he wanted conversation to move on because Reade chat was politically embarrassing for him, but the actual cause seems to be that it wasn't producing good discussion and was hellish to moderate. That fits much better with what I've seen of moderators' motivations in private spaces. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jan 30, 2022 06:44
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Anecdotal evidence that is also local data, here is a sampling of the last 48 hours of reported crime in my neighborhood (along with a few larger crimes in Tacoma) and it seems to be more weighted towards violent crime than property crime. These are generated based on monitoring police and emergency radio bands as well as manual submissions. 
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Jan 30, 2022 06:55
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how is this any different than any 48 hour period in any major city?
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Jan 30, 2022 07:12
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Bottom Liner posted:how is this any different than any 48 hour period in any major city? Seattle is notably low on average on the violent crime scale compared to comparably sized American cities. Property crime is the typical driver of stats here. Violent crime has been on the rise substantially the past 2 years. Prior to the pandemic starting that same list would have been much more heavily weighted towards petty vandalism and other property crimes like shoplifting and car break-ins.
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Jan 30, 2022 07:49
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  According to CDC murders increased 30% 2019 -> 2020. Still below historical norms, but in many places crime is up significantly.
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Jan 30, 2022 14:19
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Artonos posted:https://twitter.com/RealCandaceO/status/1487107786609676289?t=8qP6OChmIb79ILWlgL5Jlw&s=19 Is she actually this stupid or does she just really know her audience at this point? I guess it really doesn't matter I find it really interesting that conservatives not only believe Trump is God Emperor, but also any number of other conspiracies, like: MJ12, HAARP, Moon landing fake, flat earth etc. What causes this like conspiracy-ception in these people? Self selection?
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Jan 30, 2022 14:30
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TulliusCicero posted:
The desire to appear smug from having "secret knowledge", contrarianism, and the tendency to favor narratives that demonstrate human control over events.
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Jan 30, 2022 16:16
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Fritz the Horse posted:You don't have PMs so I'll respond briefly here- Thanks for the response, I was essentially just making this joke Fritz the Horse posted:Going from rhetorical ammunition to a pile of firearm ammunition in reference to a public figure is a bad look. Although considering the seriousness and scope of some of the conversations in here, and the fact that Johnson is a surname (could be anybody!)... I guess seeing a pile of ammunition posted in the thread where I routinely decry the state of our system and culture somewhat alarmed me, even if it did make me laugh and this is all nonviolent free speech. I'll go unlock PMs, I guess I should make a contribution to this site I read so often. Still hoping to earn a new av though. On the topic of shoplifting, I've been parroting some arguments from this very thread to people around me and already heard some "but there are so many job openings" and "Democrat DAs are going soft on crime letting criminals go unpunished", and these are not hateful trump supporters. Very discouraging, especially as a response to hearing police can't really deter shoplifting. Justice can only punch down in America.
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Jan 30, 2022 16:51
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freeasinbeer posted:
Do you know if this qualifies carjackings as the driver being forcefully removed from the car while driving it, or just car thefts? If it's just car thefts then I wonder if the Hyundai/Kia issue that we've seen here in Milwaukee is just spreading to the rest of the country. Basically Hyundai's and Kia's don't have immobilizer chips in their keys, which every other manufacture has been doing since the 90's. They also lack glass break sensors on the rear door windows. Someone here figured this out and a bunch of junior high and high school aged kids started stealing them for fun. Then a local new channel ran a piece on it where they essentially explained the easy steps to stealing a Kia/Hyundai and from there it became an epidemic to the point where we have seen more car thefts than Chicago in the last year - all because of one lovely automaker. I figure it's just a matter of time before this happens all over the country since I did hear it was happening in Denver (?) now too.
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Jan 30, 2022 17:05
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Benjamin Disraeli posted:Do you know if this qualifies carjackings as the driver being forcefully removed from the car while driving it, or just car thefts? If folks/sources are conflating hijacking and theft, that’s incredibly dishonest.
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Jan 30, 2022 17:19
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