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For tube amps they're great, just make sure you get an actual attenuator like a Weber and not just a volume pot that goes in your fx loop
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Jan 24, 2022 02:11
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It depends on your amp and the sound you want. If you are after power tube distortion, an attenuator can get you that. They're also pretty useful on old Fenders even if you're playing clean; the amp sounds fuller at lower volume if you get the power tubes working a bit, but the base volume for that is still kind of loud. If your amp gets distortion from the preamp and has a master volume, then an attenuator may not be necessary, though I had a Marshall 2204 that sounded best to me attenuated with the master on 10 and the gain set low, and a Distortion+ for more grit. Basically if you're after vintage power tube tone attenuators can be pretty useful. If you don't care about that, there are lots of other ways to go, such as good preamp distortion. I like and use both.
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Jan 24, 2022 02:53
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2204s have a bright cap in the circuit which means they aren't operating at full potential at low master volumes I believe.
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Jan 24, 2022 14:04
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It's on the gain knob. When you turn a simple volume pot down, the high frequencies are the first to go. Adding the bright cap lets high frequencies bypass the volume pot entirely, so they're not affected. This means that at low volume (in this case, gain) settings, the signal consists mostly of the unattenuated highs. Edit: Funnily enough the classic Fender treble-middle-bass tone stack is wired such that the treble pot blends between preset high frequencies and the signal from the mids and bass filters. So when you do the classic Marshall thing of turning all the knobs to 12, you're actually cutting out most if not all of the mids and lows. Siivola fucked around with this message at 14:11 on Jan 24, 2022 |
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Jan 24, 2022 14:06
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Anyone have an attenuator recommendation for a 200 watt amp?
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Jan 30, 2022 02:17
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Extremely pricy but this is all I could think of that would do it off the top of my head https://www.fryette.com/power-station-integrated-reactance-amplifier/
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Jan 30, 2022 02:24
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Kvlt! posted:Extremely pricy but this is all I could think of that would do it off the top of my head I have one of those. Its great, I really love it but it will color the sound of the amp to some degree. Just something to be aware of. Personally, I like the sound it has but I'm using it mostly as a power amp for rack preamps.
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Jan 30, 2022 04:20
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Good to know! I love Weber attenuators but I don't think they make one for 200 Watt amps Out of curiosity what amp is it?
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Jan 30, 2022 04:26
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Kvlt! posted:Good to know! The first thing I found was the Weber 200, which despite the numeric in the name only handles half the wattage. I was so disappointed lol My amp is a Quilter Tone Block 202. I love the little thing! Currently I only run it into a Harley Benton G212 Vintage cabinet, which is a pair of celestion V30's which can run at 120 W at 8 ohms, so by necessity I have to dial the amp back (literally the wattage is controlled by a dial). . But I'm looking to upgrade my speaker setup to better suit my baritone guitar, so I think I combination of 12's with a 15" might be great. I'm going to have to research though to figure out how best to do that.
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Jan 30, 2022 07:14
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Just a heads-up, attenuators are pretty specifically designed for tube amps, so you might have to take a different route. What kind of stuff are you looking at playing with the bari? That's basically become my main instrument over the past few years. It mostly seems happy with 10" and 12" speakers and doesn't have enough low end to get a 15" really moving - even with an EQ pedal. It's tuned B-b, though, so ymmv. When I need to tame the volume, a compression pedal usually does the trick. So far, the best amp I've found for it is also my most impractical: the Fender Super Six - basically a Twin Reverb through six 10" speakers... which I guess is like 2/3 of an SVT cab when you think about it.
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Jan 30, 2022 08:06
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Don't buy an attenuator for a modeling amp... e: just turn up the gain on your Tone Block. That's what it's for. the tingler fucked around with this message at 18:08 on Jan 30, 2022 |
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Jan 30, 2022 18:04
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The Demilich posted:My amp is a Quilter Tone Block 202. I love the little thing! Currently I only run it into a Harley Benton G212 Vintage cabinet, which is a pair of celestion V30's which can run at 120 W at 8 ohms, so by necessity I have to dial the amp back (literally the wattage is controlled by a dial). . You aren't going to get any benefit out of an attenuator with that amp- it basically has one built in already anyway. The whole point of an attenuator is to be able to slam the power stage of a tube amp harder so it sounds better at a lower volume. It's not gonna do anything for that amp, in fact solid state amps actually sound worse if you drive them too hard, they need headroom.
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Jan 30, 2022 18:21
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Sounds like you're mostly interested in protecting your speakers from the amp being rated for a higher wattage, is that correct? Not looking for any kind of special power amp distortion (which the Quilter can't do anyway)?
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Jan 30, 2022 18:52
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Dr. Faustus posted:Sounds like you're mostly interested in protecting your speakers from the amp being rated for a higher wattage, is that correct? Not looking for any kind of special power amp distortion (which the Quilter can't do anyway)? Bingo
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Feb 1, 2022 02:06
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After The War posted:What kind of stuff are you looking at playing with the bari? That's basically become my main instrument over the past few years. It mostly seems happy with 10" and 12" speakers and doesn't have enough low end to get a 15" really moving - even with an EQ pedal. It's tuned B-b, though, so ymmv. When I need to tame the volume, a compression pedal usually does the trick. Doom, blues, crusty sludge, and stoner jams in A1 are my game these days. With my MXR 10 band I cut 31 & 62 when playing with a bass friend so we're not stepping on each other's toes, but I'm not playing with people anymore so  Given attenuators apparently aren't the tool I thought I needed (I wanted a safe way to max my amp and not damage speakers), I guess the other option is to just upgrade the cabinet I play with to be able to handle the Quilter's max output. Instead of replacing speakers in my 2x12 I'll just make a new cabinet. I love woodworking so building an actual cabinet is the easy part for me, but I know gently caress all about proper speaker compatability when picking them out and putting them together though. I think you need to keep each speaker within a few dB of each other so no speaker is overpowering another, but in terms of wattage calculations and serial/parallel stuff I'm a bit out of the loop. Actually thinking about it, its there a speaker search engine with a great filter? Do cabinets have an equivalent website to pcpartpicker.com?
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Feb 1, 2022 03:43
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The Demilich posted:Doom, blues, crusty sludge, and stoner jams in A1 are my game these days. With my MXR 10 band I cut 31 & 62 when playing with a bass friend so we're not stepping on each other's toes, but I'm not playing with people anymore so I think you're over thinking it. Most speakers and amps are rated very conservatively. Don't look at the numbers, trust your ears, if it feels and sounds like your speakers are gonna blow up, they probably are. If keep turning your amp up and, you're not getting enough volume, it feels hot enough to fry an egg, your amp if probably being gonna blow up first. In the end, all of it can be fixed and replaced. Most things sound the best on the edge of destruction, the key is knowing when you're close, and dialing back 10 percent. Also I will say about the my advice, I've blown up about 20 amps, and 30+ speakers, but I also push everything that touches my hands to the absolute limit it was ever designed for, I'm sure you will barely scratch the limit of what you come across. Not a dig at you, just don't worry about the ratings, and make your equipment sing! If you kill it, it usually is about $200 and you're back in business.
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Feb 8, 2022 06:19
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Pokey Araya posted:I think you're over thinking it. Most speakers and amps are rated very conservatively. Don't look at the numbers, trust your ears, if it feels and sounds like your speakers are gonna blow up, they probably are. If keep turning your amp up and, you're not getting enough volume, it feels hot enough to fry an egg, your amp if probably being gonna blow up first. This is extraordinarily stupid in a surprisingly broad number of ways.
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Feb 8, 2022 10:59
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Pokey Araya posted:
This alone explains why you absolutely should not take this persons advice.
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Feb 8, 2022 13:23
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I mean dont get me wrong I'm absolutely seeing Pokey Arayas band live if I ever get the chance but I'm going to be standing near the fire exit when I do.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:16
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Anyone here build their own tube amps? I’ve been an electronics hobbyist since I was a kid and have done several pedals so I’ve decided to try my hand at a low wattage amp. The only parts I’m having trouble trying to source are quality transforms so I was hoping the thread had some sources. I’ve been looking at tube depot and don’t mind the prices but they’re out of stock for what I want.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:21
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stoopidmunkey posted:Anyone here build their own tube amps? I’ve been an electronics hobbyist since I was a kid and have done several pedals so I’ve decided to try my hand at a low wattage amp. The only parts I’m having trouble trying to source are quality transforms so I was hoping the thread had some sources. I’ve been looking at tube depot and don’t mind the prices but they’re out of stock for what I want. Fwiw there's a worldwide shortage of transformers rn (or at least thats why the folks at mojotone claim to be delaying my order 😡)
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Feb 8, 2022 15:34
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Hey maybe Pokey Araya is actually Tom Araya and blowing only 20 amps over his career might be pretty conservative.
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Feb 8, 2022 15:59
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Pokey loving rules you nerds. I baby my amps tho, I haven't got $200 laying around like goddamn.
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Feb 8, 2022 18:44
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Kingo Ligma posted:This is extraordinarily stupid in a surprisingly broad number of ways. Edit: He's what I told him in another thread, more specific for you. Weber makes awesome speakers, and a whole range of high power ones. https://www.tedweber.com/speakers/high-power-series/12-models-5/ceramic-5/ And the Tone Cvlt series made for drop tunings. https://www.tedweber.com/speakers/tonecvlt/12-models-9/ I play guitar in Open A and I use 6x12's most the time, an Orange 2x12 and 4x12, same Celestion v30''s you have, and they work for me. Kvlt! posted:This alone explains why you absolutely should not take this persons advice. My bass cab has been through a ton of speakers, it has 6, and I've dragged it through in every state in the USA, minus Hawaii and Alaska. Any by my last count I think I've played 600+ concerts with it. I've owned about 50 amps, and played just about every one of them at literally full blast, for hours at a time. I've worked front of house, monitors, designed and programed light shows, set up entire PA's, backlines, and been stage manager at multiple festivals. I helped record 10 live albums, worked on 20 studio albums, and written 3, in the last 2 years. I earn my living working in a recording studio at the moment. But yeah, what are yalls credentials? I guess a second edit is in order to better answer his original question. As far as speaker sensitivity is concerned, for the most part you won't be able to tell from normal hearing distance. Speakers will naturally blend together and even out. Now if you have to microphone right on them, yeah there will be a difference, but just adjust the gain of the preamps to match, and it's fine. As far as wattage calculations go, as a rule of thumb if they are equal wattage, add them together and you're fine. If your mismatching them, rate it more conservatively. For instance you put a 40 watt speaker with a 75 watt speaker, which is 110 total watts. If you push 100 watts into both of them, figure 50 is going to each of them, it doesn't exactly work that way, its easier to think of it like that. The 45 watt speaker is at it's limit, while the 75 watt is just fine cruising along. As a guideline, think of the rating of the cab at 80-90 watts so you never push the 40 watt too hard. This actually gets into a bunch of physics and bullshit you don't really want to worry about so just... Try not to mismatch speaker wattage. Two 100 watt speakers, you can 200 watts into. How you do it depends on how you wire them, series, parallel, or a combination of both ( more than 2 speaker configurations). At this point your worried about the impedance. Read this. https://geoffthegreygeek.com/understanding-speaker-impedance/ And play with this calculator to get a handle on it. https://geoffthegreygeek.com/speakers-in-series-parallel-calculator/ The practical side of what your asking is what Ohm rating you're looking for to build a new cab. I don't think you ever specified what amp you were using (you did, sorry), except that it was 200 watts, but most guitar amps will do 4, 8, 16 ohms. If your v30 cab is 16 ohms, build the new one with the same rating, so when you connect them together you get 8 ohms. Again for me, I usually go for maximum volume, so I would rewire your current cab to 8 ohms, and build and 8 ohm cab, totalling 4 ohms, and your amp will put out maximum power. Pokey Araya fucked around with this message at 06:50 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 05:56
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The rest of us are hobbyists who don’t have a hookup for a dude who will replace a melted transformer for $200.
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Feb 9, 2022 06:03
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Pokey Araya posted:Edit: He's what I told him in another thread, more specific for you. Apart from designed recording studios, PA's, and live sound systems for a living, my main credential is playing loud, angular, obnoxious music with extremely destructive stage performances for twenty years without so much as blowing a tube. I've thrown combos off stages and jumped on them, then used them again the next night without an issue. Doing the damage you're doing is a result of basic technical incompetence.
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Feb 9, 2022 06:14
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Kingo Ligma posted:Apart from designed recording studios, PA's, and live sound systems for a living, my main credential is playing loud, angular, obnoxious music with extremely destructive stage performances for twenty years without so much as blowing a tube. I've thrown combos off stages and jumped on them, then used them again the next night without an issue. Doing the damage you're doing is a result of basic technical incompetence. drat I stand corrected. You give the guy some advice about speakers and building a cab. Ok last edit for me, I come on these forums about once every six months, but heres how you blow an amp. 1. 3 months: Practice 3 times a week, 8 hours per session, turn amp all the way up to compete with your loud rear end band mates. Write new record. During those 3 months you load it out of the practice space, into the van, out of the van, into a venue, then on a stage, blast again for 45 mins, to an hour full blast, set it aside in the venue. Drink beer, wait a couple hours, throw it back in the van, then back to the space, unload. Repeat 3 times a month. 2. Practice tour set, record new album. 3. Tour the next 20-30 days: Repeat this process every night, into the van, out of the van, into a parking lot, into a venue, then on a stage, blast 45 -hour full blast, set it aside in the venue. Drink beer, wait a couple hours, throw it back in the van. It bounces around for an average of 6 hours every day through rough highways and byways. You encounter stairs every 8th venue. You cover 9000 miles average. Finish tour. 2 weeks : rest and find someone to have sex with. GoTo 1 and 2 if band is equal to and/or happy as last tour GoTo 3 if you just wanna get it over with and start a new thing. If winter, GoTo 2. If not GoTo 1. If amp dies at any stage in this process, buy new one, or rent right now. GoTo 1, next 6 years, replace amps and speakers with money you saved from by eating ramen, and not having a real life. Thats why I blow poo poo up, touring bands you see put their stuff through hell. Again, why I seem dismissive about people's amps that sit at home all day. Your stuff will be fine, just have fun with it! You're not gonna hurt it. Match the wattage, correct impedance from what your amp puts out, into the cabs you have, and let it rip. ------------------------ Well, I guess I'm going off tonight, so I'll just let it all out. During this pandemic thats been going on for the last couple years, I've mixed a bunch of hobbyist bands, and they're worry so much about the technical detail, I can tell they aren't having fun anymore. We all started picking up instruments because we hear something that was cool, or someone that inspired us, or we just needed to get some emotions out. So embrace that, don't worry about your speakers being within 3db +/- sensitivity, turn it up and just loving play what's in your heart. If you destroy something, no problem, learn from your mistakes, and work from there. It's just a piece of gear! In the end we're all just trying to create music, and resonate our emotions with the people that hear it. Or we do it for ourselves, which is also fine. I guess what im saying is just play whats in your heart my dudes. But also in the future I'll try to be more technical in my information. Pokey Araya fucked around with this message at 09:16 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 06:26
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tell us more about how you had sex and blew up amps on tour mr cool rock star This is the amplifier thread. People literally come here for technical talk/advice. It is the place for technical questions.
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Feb 9, 2022 17:52
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Kvlt! posted:tell us more about how you had sex and blew up amps on tour mr cool rock star Post technical advice then, you didn't help out The Demilich with his speaker question at all. Share your knowledge with us. I'm here for it.
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Feb 9, 2022 18:01
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Pokey Araya posted:Post technical advice then, you didn't help out The Demilich with his speaker question at all. Share your knowledge with us. I'm here for it. I don't have the answer to his questions. That's why I come to this thread. To learn technical stuff. I am failing to see how "blow up your poo poo" and have someone replace the components that failed or the amp itself is anything close to good advice. Let's assume that everyone can afford that, which is absolutely not true, even then I don't want to blow up my amps, I want to learn how to AVOID blowing them up. I have amps that sit at home all day. I play through them every single day, I enjoy the hell out of them. Just because someone's not touring doesn't mean they aren't legit musicians or something. And even if they're just hobbyists, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with enjoying your amps at home and having fun with them and taking proper care of them?
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Feb 9, 2022 18:13
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Kvlt! posted:I have amps that sit at home all day. I play through them every single day, I enjoy the hell out of them. Just because someone's not touring doesn't mean they aren't legit musicians or something. And even if they're just hobbyists, what's wrong with that? What's wrong with enjoying your amps at home and having fun with them and taking proper care of them? There is nothing wrong with being a hobbyist and playing amps at home, I never said that. If you read my original post, I said that I push everything to the limit, and most people will never push their amps to the way I do. I also said about my advice, take it with a grain of salt. It's really easy to not blow poo poo up, use the proper resistance, and wattage from your amp to your speaker cab. Should I just say that in the future? Did you really need to come here to learn that? We all have the whole internet at our finger tips. He's asking about pumping 200 watts into 2 speaker cabs, with a drop tuned guitar. An incredibly loud experience, and what I've learned from blowing poo poo up is trust your ears, and monitor your amp. It becomes a feel thing, as abstract as that sounds. All the theory in the world isn't going to help you, I'm here to give practical, lived through advice. If he wants to play a Fender Champ at home halfway up, I'm sure you can chime in.
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Feb 9, 2022 19:41
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Pokey Araya posted:All the theory in the world isn't going to help you, I'm here to give practical, lived through advice. If he wants to play a Fender Champ at home halfway up, I'm sure you can chime in. Actually it will help you its called electrical engineering and is the science we use to make amps. Its not like music theory where its all subjective to taste, there are actual laws of science governing here. My home rig is an Orange Rockerverb MKIII 100 and a Mesa Boogie MKV 35, but tell me more about how cool and massive your rigs are and how hard you push them mr cool rock star. I bet Matt Pike wishes he had your backline.
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Feb 9, 2022 19:53
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It's even funnier now that it's obvious you know literally all you have to do is match impedance and wattage. This is like going into AI for car advice and having some dude back up their terrible advice by going "just use the accelerator instead of the brake, there's no rules here it's all about feel man. I've crashed my car like 400 times so I'm pretty much a rally driver". Giving advice you objectively know is unhelpful and stupid because "everybody knows that poo poo already" is arrogant, condescending and a loving dick move. You don't know where someone else is on their journey or where their knowledge gaps are. No one thinks you're a legend for deliberately being a dumbass. gently caress unless there is fire involved blown amps don't even look cool to the audience, you're just quieter or silent for at least ten minutes if you have a backup
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Feb 9, 2022 20:26
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Dang you're cool
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Feb 9, 2022 21:02
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Kingo Ligma posted:It's even funnier now that it's obvious you know literally all you have to do is match impedance and wattage. You said it better than I could
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Feb 9, 2022 21:17
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Thanks for taking the posting time to keep replying to me. Yall could of said instead.... The Demilich, your Quilter amp puts out 4 and 8 ohms. Your current cabinet is rated at 8 ohms, 120 watts. If you want to add a cabinet, and run your amp at full volume, I suggest you add another 8 ohm cab, totaling 4 ohms in your system. If you are worried about one being louder than the other, use the same speakers, V30's in your case, in your new build, and they will be the same volume. A system of two 120 watt cabs, 8 ohms each, for a total of 240 watts power, at 4 ohms. Happy, everyone happy now?
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Feb 9, 2022 22:46
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Literally yes. I apologize for being rude and standoffish but if you had just posted that from the beggining Demilich wouldve gotten the info he needed.
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Feb 9, 2022 23:30
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I don't blow speakers, only groupies  I've legitimately been terrified of blowing speakers to the point that my Night Train 50 came with a 212 with G12H Anniversary speakers, 30W each. I actually emailed Celestion asking if it was safe cause I'm so paranoid.
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Feb 9, 2022 23:57
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Dr. Faustus posted:Sounds like you're mostly interested in protecting your speakers from the amp being rated for a higher wattage, is that correct? Not looking for any kind of special power amp distortion (which the Quilter can't do anyway)? The Demilich posted:Bingo jfc Pokey is cool af but goddamn IT IS A SERIES OF TUBES
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Feb 10, 2022 10:44
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Pokey Means Business
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Feb 10, 2022 21:58
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