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I feel like the whole child indoctrination thing -- whether it's Jedi, clones, Mandalorians, or any other faction -- is a really loaded Thing that has kind of gotten a bit out of hand in this universe, like actually kinda gotten away from the writers at this point and they don't really know what to do with it all.
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Jan 31, 2022 07:09
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BrianWilly posted:I feel like the whole child indoctrination thing -- whether it's Jedi, clones, Mandalorians, or any other faction -- is a really loaded Thing that has kind of gotten a bit out of hand in this universe, like actually kinda gotten away from the writers at this point and they don't really know what to do with it all. oh man you should see the poo poo that goes on in PTA board meetings, I tell you what
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Jan 31, 2022 07:46
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Hellbore posted:"The Road Not Taken" by Harry Turtledove I love that story because among other things it features alien teddy bears. Conquistador teddy bears.
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Jan 31, 2022 09:08
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BrianWilly posted:I feel like the whole child indoctrination thing -- whether it's Jedi, clones, Mandalorians, or any other faction -- is a really loaded Thing that has kind of gotten a bit out of hand in this universe, like actually kinda gotten away from the writers at this point and they don't really know what to do with it all. The road to hell is paved with child soldiers.
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Jan 31, 2022 09:28
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As far as the Jedi are concerned it feels like the  At first Yoda says Luke is too old and it's like, sure, it makes sense they would generally start younger than him. But then they say nine year-old Anakin was too old and it's like, uh, alright. Now Ahsoka says Grogu is too old when he's functionally a toddler. Just how young do you want them?? I know they took babies but like, it had never really sunk in before that the cut-off age is basically "understands object permanence."
BrianWilly fucked around with this message at 09:47 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 09:44
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Is it ever addressed how they find force-sensitive kids, and if they want them so young they're still on the tit, how much time is there usually between finding them and taking them? It seems like with how young they want them there wouldnt be a need for a list, they'd just snatch them as soon as they got a whiff of midichlorians
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Jan 31, 2022 09:48
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Jan 31, 2022 10:06
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Cartoon Man posted:Also, somebody figure out a new thread title that has Jawa Fucker in it. Strangers With Jawabreakers
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Jan 31, 2022 10:09
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Everyone posted:I love that story because among other things it features alien teddy bears. Conquistador teddy bears. And that has made all the difference
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Jan 31, 2022 10:19
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Bismuth posted:Is it ever addressed how they find force-sensitive kids, and if they want them so young they're still on the tit, how much time is there usually between finding them and taking them? It seems like with how young they want them there wouldnt be a need for a list, they'd just snatch them as soon as they got a whiff of midichlorians In Clone Wars (and Fallen Order) the Jedi have a list of force sensitive kids who have not become younglings.
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Jan 31, 2022 10:28
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Doctor Spaceman posted:In Clone Wars (and Fallen Order) the Jedi have a list of force sensitive kids who have not become younglings. Yeah I know they have a list, but how did they make it? Who? Did they somehow get the list before the kids were even born? Because the age they seem to want them doesnt leave a huge window for them to be discovered before being 'too old'
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Jan 31, 2022 10:40
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BrianWilly posted:As far as the Jedi are concerned it feels like the I mean yeah that's basically it right? like they wanted them young enough that they haven't been able to form any real attachments to/memories of anyone or anything. so that's basically gotta be like, a newborn. it's insanely hosed up. I found it interesting that even as the Good Jedi who understood how flawed and dogmatic the Order was, Ahsoka in adulthood still evidently believed in the attachment/age thing. Presumably in her case because of the very direct trauma from Anakin's fall, maybe it would be a bit of a blind spot
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Jan 31, 2022 10:47
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Dexter jettster made the list
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Jan 31, 2022 10:47
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Bismuth posted:Yeah I know they have a list, but how did they make it? Who? Did they somehow get the list before the kids were even born? Because the age they seem to want them doesnt leave a huge window for them to be discovered before being 'too old' The lists seem to be on Holocrons which I've always understood as having some degree of consciousness hoodoo magic spookiness involved, so maybe it involves some sort of communing with the will of the Force or something
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Jan 31, 2022 10:48
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Mandrel posted:I mean yeah that's basically it right? like they wanted them young enough that they haven't been able to form any real attachments to/memories of anyone or anything. so that's basically gotta be like, a newborn. it's insanely hosed up. 
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Jan 31, 2022 11:07
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ahsoka babies just look like that ok
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Jan 31, 2022 11:36
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Mandrel posted:ahsoka babies just look like that ok https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkYlQLMvWz8
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Jan 31, 2022 13:32
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Mandrel posted:I found it interesting that even as the Good Jedi who understood how flawed and dogmatic the Order was, Ahsoka in adulthood still evidently believed in the attachment/age thing. Presumably in her case because of the very direct trauma from Anakin's fall, maybe it would be a bit of a blind spot I thought it was the opposite, she recognises the connection the two have with each other and tries to use the party line to keep the two together because she recognises the flaws of the Jedi.
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Jan 31, 2022 14:00
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WhiskeyWhiskers posted:I thought it was the opposite, she recognises the connection the two have with each other and tries to use the party line to keep the two together because she recognises the flaws of the Jedi. If Ahsoka's goal was to just keep Grogu and Mando together, she wouldn't have told him about the Jedi temple. Ahsoka recognized that Grogu needed to be trained in the Force. She just didn't think she was the one to do that because Grogu was already attached to Din. And also she clearly had her own poo poo going on ("Where is Grand Admiral Thrawn?!") and probably didn't really want to stop to train Grogu.
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Jan 31, 2022 14:55
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Bismuth posted:Yeah I know they have a list, but how did they make it? Who? Did they somehow get the list before the kids were even born? Because the age they seem to want them doesnt leave a huge window for them to be discovered before being 'too old' The Jedi have a Cerebro-type thing that Writ Listo uses to scope out the galaxy and find potential Padawans.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:30
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This makes the Jedi look even worse because it shows they know it's wrong and destroys families. But 'greater good' and all that. Plus it's such a 'huge honour' for the families. And everything else the Jedi tell themselves when they remove infants from their parents in a totally voluntary way where saying no is not an option.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:31
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Are there schools in star wars? Like, if you aren't kidnapped by the Jedi/Empire/Mandalorians/ya ya, how do you learn anything? Sure everyone is illiterate but you still seem to need to know spoken languages, technical skills, maybe they want kids to know the arts or sciences
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Jan 31, 2022 16:32
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Lobok posted:The Jedi have a Cerebro-type thing that Writ Listo uses to scope out the galaxy and find potential Padawans. Pretty much. Some of them have Precognition as a Force power and all of them can sense "disturbances in the Force." Figure a kid who's a potential Force user will "disturb the Force" in a detectable way and the Precogs can determine when/where those disturbances will occur and have a Jedi kidnapper there and waiting.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:34
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Mameluke posted:Are there schools in star wars? Like, if you aren't kidnapped by the Jedi/Empire/Mandalorians/ya ya, how do you learn anything? Sure everyone is illiterate but you still seem to need to know spoken languages, technical skills, maybe they want kids to know the arts or sciences The Mandalorian dropped Grogu off at a school on Nevarro in S02E04 while he got up to Mandalorian things, and there was also one shown in The Clone Wars on Mandalore https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Sundari_Mandalorian_school galenanorth fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 16:36
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Mameluke posted:Are there schools in star wars? Like, if you aren't kidnapped by the Jedi/Empire/Mandalorians/ya ya, how do you learn anything? Sure everyone is illiterate but you still seem to need to know spoken languages, technical skills, maybe they want kids to know the arts or sciences There's Dagobah Tech. The Emperor's grandson went there.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:41
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The United States posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ihWYL0cBTSo They need to do way instain jedi> who kidnap thier babbys, becuse these babby cant fright back
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Jan 31, 2022 17:06
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Mameluke posted:Are there schools in star wars? Like, if you aren't kidnapped by the Jedi/Empire/Mandalorians/ya ya, how do you learn anything? Sure everyone is illiterate but you still seem to need to know spoken languages, technical skills, maybe they want kids to know the arts or sciences What do you think droids are for? That's why everyone knows how to talk to them! Stressed parents just sit their kids in front of droids all day and make them learn algebra though beeps, boops, whistles, and—if you've got a more expensive droid model—an occasional hologram.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:12
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Servetus posted:On the other hand, how would we feel about a military officer just starting a war without any government approval? That's essentially what it would be if the Jedi drew the Republic into an invasion/liberation of the outer rim without senate approval They did have government approval. An agent of the Republic was investigating the attempted assassination of a sitting member of the Senate by a breakaway faction of the state. They capture the agent and sentence the Senator and agent to public execution. At this point, the Senate authorizes the executive to use whatever military power is required to meet the actions of the Separatists. The execution order for a senate member is the red line. Use of force by the breakaway faction is a common go/no go moment for the parent government. The Jedi didn't go off rogue to start a war. Up to this point, everything was part of a perfectly reasonable security operation that was taking place under what appear to be the normal powers of the executive. It isn't until the execution order comes that things change. The legislature approves the use of force with the Military Creation Act and the emergency powers passage. The executive gives the green light for the extraction. But, extracting the agents and Senator is going to require substantial force and will undoubtedly lead to severe escalation.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:13
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clicked this thread by accident thinking the trek thread changed its name to include something about janeway genitals
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Jan 31, 2022 17:33
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Mameluke posted:Are there schools in star wars? Like, if you aren't kidnapped by the Jedi/Empire/Mandalorians/ya ya, how do you learn anything? Sure everyone is illiterate but you still seem to need to know spoken languages, technical skills, maybe they want kids to know the arts or sciences  galenanorth posted:The Mandalorian dropped Grogu off at a school on Nevarro in S02E04 while he got up to Mandalorian things, and there was also one shown in The Clone Wars on Mandalore  feedmyleg posted:What do you think droids are for? That's why everyone knows how to talk to them! Stressed parents just sit their kids in front of droids all day and make them learn algebra though beeps, boops, whistles, and—if you've got a more expensive droid model—an occasional hologram. 
Assepoester fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 17:37
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There was also the Imperial Academy, mentioned in A New Hope, and an Imperial Academy for high school age students was depicted in Star Wars: Rebels
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Jan 31, 2022 17:46
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BrianWilly posted:I feel like the whole child indoctrination thing -- whether it's Jedi, clones, Mandalorians, or any other faction -- is a really loaded Thing that has kind of gotten a bit out of hand in this universe, like actually kinda gotten away from the writers at this point and they don't really know what to do with it all. The justification for taking toddlers is to prevent them from gaining emotional attachments because, hey Anakin Skywalker is an object lesson at least as far as the Jedi themselves are concerned. Lucas was clear that among their failures, none of the Jedi had anything to offer Anakin to help him get through visions of his mother's pain or Padme's death except the insistence of "Let go, stop feeling that way!" which shockingly didn't satisfy his emotional trauma and helped drive him away from the Jedi. A killer story could show an alternate Anakin Skywalker scenario going through similar circumstances but getting real help, whether it's a mentor going to the backwoods planet to help the kid confront torturers, or entertaining their visions of a love one's death, holding their hand, and helping them see them pass as not being realized. As the kid gets older, maybe they still struggle with those feelings, but through support and practice they grow and are actually stronger than the attachment-gimped toddlers. Like realizing that the New Republic Chancellor is trying to emotionally manipulate them, explore the reasons behind it, and hey, uncover another a Sith plot to take over the galaxy and stop it before it begins.
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Jan 31, 2022 18:18
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galenanorth posted:an Imperial Academy for high school age students was depicted in Star Wars: Rebels Two of them, even; one for troopers, and one for pilots The former had its plot resolved in the Servants of the Empire book series, which went into Project Harvester, where the Empire was collecting Force-sensitive individuals to turn into Inquisitors
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Jan 31, 2022 18:18
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if the academy in rebels is anything to go by it's not a school, it's boot camp
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Jan 31, 2022 18:20
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The Legends canon had a website with HoloNet news stories to flesh out the universe. One of them was the "Baby Ludi" case, about a woman trying to get her Force-sensitive child back after the Jedi found it during an earthquake rescue and took it. It turned into a huge court battle, with student protesters hacking the University of Coruscant's databanks to overwrite all the students' work with pictures of the kid and attempting to raid the Jedi Temple.
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Jan 31, 2022 18:45
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Khanstant posted:clicked this thread by accident thinking the trek thread changed its name to include something about janeway genitals In glad im not the only one.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:43
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Khanstant posted:clicked this thread by accident thinking the trek thread changed its name to include something about janeway genitals The season finale of Prodigy went in some really weird directions, didn't it?
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Feb 1, 2022 00:52
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Sash! posted:They did have government approval. I was referring to the situation in The Phantom Menace. Qui-Gonn had the authorization to broker talks between the Trade Federation and Naboo, then he interpreted his orders into protecting the Queen and getting her to Coruscant when the situation changed. He didn't try to start a slave uprising on Tatooine, which is where I usually see the Jedi criticized over slavery. But if he'd tried to start a conflict with the Hutts by destablziing a planet under their control, as an agent of the Republic he would be embroiling the Republic in that conflict without any instructions or input from the Republic's government. The Jedi taking babies thing is just messed up, I can't really defend that policy of the prequels-era order. In the KOTOR timeframe they are a lot more humane, with parents and siblings getting visits and calls with their Jedi family member.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:56
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I love that the EU/legends people fully went into there being anti-jedi groups and baby stealing court cases and poo poo, that genuinely delights me. Thinking of the bird people who consider the jedi baby-stealers, that reminded me of the sort of disdain(not sure if thats the right word, contempt?) that the jedi always had when they said other cultures/species had their own ways of using/interacting with the force. Like if they just pretend everyone else's force sucks they dont have to examine the fact that those other guys seem to be doing just fine with having feelings and the force at the same time. Khanstant posted:clicked this thread by accident thinking the trek thread changed its name to include something about janeway genitals I wish
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Feb 1, 2022 00:59
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Can't take credit for it, but honestly, it made me laugh hard. "Din will ultimately reject his cultist mom and his mean stepmom, and go move in with his weird uncle and aunt in their Nevada commune, with all their pets and the bunch of pot dealing teens his uncle hired.  "
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