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It does seem like one war where a major fighter got knocked out and pinned to the ground only to get pissed off and turn into the hulk while everyone else was thinking it was done
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Jan 31, 2022 16:06
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Turns out different people had different school experiences
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Jan 31, 2022 16:09
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AlbieQuirky posted:We were taught that the whole thing was a disaster and we had to read a bunch of poems from Wilfred Owen and Siegfried Sassoon and so on I think I read here on the Military History thread an idea I've always found convincing: That if it were not for the Nazis unique evil, if they had just been bent on European conquest rather than extermination, we would treat the period from the Franco-Prussian war to the end of WWII as a long fight between France and Germany for economic and political domination of Western Europe.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:19
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I learnt a lot about the cold war but being Australian it was basically all Asia. Including two full years on China. The Berlin situation was still a surprise. Like even if you have a good history teacher and a good school you can miss poo poo. History is BIG. My main memory of learning about Germany in history class was the holocaust and then back to the WW2 Pacific. Basically dialh is full of poo poo I was into history and had a great teacher and it didn't come up. What chance do people with a way worse education system have. A Sometimes Food has a new favorite as of 16:23 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 16:20
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Improbable Lobster posted:Turns out different people had different school experiences Yeah I think that may be the discussion topic at present
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Jan 31, 2022 16:30
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Why would they teach us about the space race that clearly didn't happen according to known correct person Candice Owens. Idiot content: https://twitter.com/fawfulfan/status/1487963810182881285
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Jan 31, 2022 16:40
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dialhforhero posted:Okay. This is an extreme circumstance, though, and unfortunate. I can almost guarantee your teacher WOULD have taught it. This very similar issue is actually a very big deal to schools and universities right now with regards to the pandemic and the trickle-down results of learning loss due to school shut-downs, extreme amounts of absences, and online learning, will be felt for years.
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Jan 31, 2022 16:50
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OPAONI posted:the Nazis unique evil, sexpig by night posted:Like, we do it for WW2 too but at least with that there's kinda a more agreed upon narrative of 'well...yea but gently caress the Nazis, it's good we kicked their asses' and we stick to just erasing the Soviets basically carrying all of the 40's european campaign on their backs. WW1 is pure us looking at arguably one of the west's greatest tragedies and going "WHOOOO WE WON" It's good that we kicked the Nazis' asses, but we didn't do it out of altruism, and the reason it was good is because fascism is an inherently evil ideology, not because those particular fascists happened to be German
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Jan 31, 2022 16:53
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Borrovan posted:This is a pet peeve of mine, the Nazis were not "uniquely" evil, they were by-and-large ordinary people making a bunch of incredibly heinous mistakes that could very easily happen again if we do not learn from them Anybody waving a Nazi flag or spouting Nazi ideology today deserves a very swift and very hard blow to the mouth and to have all of their Nazi memorabilia destroyed, though. 
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Jan 31, 2022 16:58
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Anybody waving a Nazi flag or spouting Nazi ideology today deserves a very swift and very hard blow to the mouth and to have all of their Nazi memorabilia destroyed, though. I was in this play as Capt. Von Trapp and got to do this Very satisfying
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Jan 31, 2022 17:01
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Borrovan posted:This is a pet peeve of mine, the Nazis were not "uniquely" evil, they were by-and-large ordinary people making a bunch of incredibly heinous mistakes that could very easily happen again if we do not learn from them The were doubly not "unique" due to how most of their machinations were inspired by, adopted from, or outright copied from the rest of the world. Hitler saw the US's treatment of Native Americans and Henry Ford's antisemitism as an inspiration and guidebook for their attempt at exterminating Jews and other "undesirables" from Germany. They took concentration camps from the British tactics in the Boer war, and looked historically at exiling the "unwanted" populations to far off lands (Australia) as an option for getting rid of Jews by dumping them in Madagascar. The "Third Reich" was a weird amalgamation of ideas, technologies, and inspirations from around the world that it's basically "Original the Character, do not steal, Fascism edition....which was also Italian in origin". It also crazy to my how many Americans went over to fight against German in WW2, only to come back and try to restart their ideas at home. George Lincoln Rockwell was a Navy pilot and also the progenitor of the American Neo-Nazi movement. I just don't get how you square that circle.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:04
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Anybody waving a Nazi flag or spouting Nazi ideology today deserves a very swift and very hard blow to the mouth and to have all of their Nazi memorabilia destroyed, though. Sure, but it's dangerous to pretend the Van Trapps of the world weren't often actual fascists, just from different flavors than nazi who then went on to work with Gladio. Hell, the western powers helped actual nazis rebuild the West German government and staff its security & intelligence orgs, since they were so good at murdering commies. Like to the point that the German equivalent of the CIA was run by nazis and murdering student protestors well into the 70's.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:09
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Anora posted:Why would they teach us about the space race that clearly didn't happen according to known correct person Candice Owens. I love how Fauci remains this bogeyman for conservatives when every vaguely left person I know largely stopped paying attention to him months ago.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:09
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Data Graham posted:My World Cultures & History teacher (who had a doctorate and encyclopedic knowledge of every country and was incredibly entertaining and I went to Russia on an EF trip he organized in 1991 to bring an expat back home to the countryside near St. Petersburg, but was also kind of a kook, he taught us firmly that human beings have Five Sexes, and "homosexual" and "asexual" were among them, and he put this question on exams) wanted us to believe that in the future WWI and WII would come to be thought of and studied as one single conflict, called the Great War. It sounds like he had a different source, but a five-sex model was an accepted academic theory at the time: https://www.nytimes.com/1993/03/12/opinion/how-many-sexes-are-there.html. I’m linking the NYT as it’s easily accessible but Fausto-Sterling did plenty of peer reviewed writing and wasn’t a kook (did admit the model was wrong years later though).
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Jan 31, 2022 17:09
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Crain posted:It also crazy to my how many Americans went over to fight against German in WW2, only to come back and try to restart their ideas at home. George Lincoln Rockwell was a Navy pilot and also the progenitor of the American Neo-Nazi movement. I just don't get how you square that circle. Heavy metal poisoning.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:10
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lol fox news is literally destroying the country
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Jan 31, 2022 17:10
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Henchman of Santa posted:I love how Fauci remains this bogeyman for conservatives when every vaguely left person I know largely stopped paying attention to him months ago. Conservatives think everyone left of them is some variation of Rachel Maddow.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:11
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hawowanlawow posted:lol fox news is literally destroying the country Fox News (or rather, it's predecessor) literally distributed Hitler speeches in pre-WW2. They've always been evil.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:13
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Coolness Averted posted:Sure, but it's dangerous to pretend the Van Trapps of the world weren't often actual fascists, just from different flavors than nazi who then went on to work with Gladio. I know you said "of the world" but I won't hear anyone say boo about the actual von Trapps. They ran from the Nazis and then spent the rest of their lives singing, running a fun lodge, and now they make incredible beer.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:16
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Henchman of Santa posted:I love how Fauci remains this bogeyman for conservatives when every vaguely left person I know largely stopped paying attention to him months ago. Wait till he takes his glasses off, and we find out it was George Soros all along.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:19
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Samovar posted:Fox News (or rather, it's predecessor) literally distributed Hitler speeches in pre-WW2. They've always been evil. Say the who what? I've not heard this one.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:23
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Crain posted:The were doubly not "unique" due to how most of their machinations were inspired by, adopted from, or outright copied from the rest of the world. Hitler saw the US's treatment of Native Americans and Henry Ford's antisemitism as an inspiration and guidebook for their attempt at exterminating Jews and other "undesirables" from Germany. They took concentration camps from the British tactics in the Boer war, and looked historically at exiling the "unwanted" populations to far off lands (Australia) as an option for getting rid of Jews by dumping them in Madagascar. My feeling is that tons of people buy into the "the Nazis were uniquely evil" framing for no better reason than that it gives us a nice unequivocal bad guy to have fought against in order to earn our good guy badge in history, and it excuses us from having to know anything else about them or what other guises they might appear in, because that's hard. People have no idea what or who the Nazis were, they just appeared one day from space. Nothing like that could happen here. And if something with fascist characteristics arises, well they're not Nazis, those guys had the funny mustaches and the swastikas and they were in Germany! A whole different country! This is something completely different! Plus people think being called a Nazi or racist is way worse than being a Nazi or racist. Magic words and symbols poo poo.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:39
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turns out we are all the idiots on social media, including a bug dumb gay dead comedy website that I still love to bits and will always love to bits
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Jan 31, 2022 17:45
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dialhforhero posted:I just want to say that you probably WERE taught this properly but your attitudes towards history probably didn’t give many fucks so you are misremembering a lot of your school experience because it was 20 years ago. No we just didn't cover the cold war at all, we didn't cover a lot of things, in fact I consider myself quite lucky because I somehow managed to miss covering any english history at all apart from a little bit of tudors, but zero general history of the monarchy at all, which is very welcome.
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Jan 31, 2022 17:54
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Yeah, we spent like maybe a week at the end of the school year covering the cold war. We spent like 5 times as much time covering American history between the revolution and the Civil war, which, aside from the build up to the civil war and also the genocide of the Native Americans is largely pointless information. At least compared to learning about the cold war and the factors that lead to the current war on terror. Like, I think understanding what we did to Iran and then the fall out from that is much more useful information for a 21st century American than knowing about the Louisiana purchase.
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Jan 31, 2022 19:23
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a lot of that stuff is better covered through AP and U level history courses in places that are a bit more geared to uni prep. The programs carry whatever bias and institutional issues of the board, textbook, college prep, or university they are offered through, but also whatever educators, editors and test markers who have more current to progressive perspectives on society covid really busted up the 2021 AP exams, as a lot of teachers weren't able to get past unit 7 (roughly turn of the cent. to ww2 for world and u.s.) so students were either told to read hundreds of pages and understand 1945-2015 or just hope the board would basically avoid those questions, luckily they did Douche Wolf 89 has a new favorite as of 19:48 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 19:42
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All you need to know about the Cold War was it was started because Russia was jealous of the US beating Hitler and it ended with Rocky punching Ivan Drago into submission.
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Jan 31, 2022 19:42
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Play Twilight Struggle a few times and you'll get it.
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Jan 31, 2022 19:45
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My 10th grade history teacher said the war in Vietnam ended in a tie.
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Jan 31, 2022 19:49
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We spent 30 minutes on the civil rights movement as an AP History class.
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Jan 31, 2022 19:50
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Zil posted:We spent 30 minutes on the civil rights movement as an AP History class. "America used to be really racist but then MLK made a speech and got shot and racism was over."
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Jan 31, 2022 19:55
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MLK was racism Jesus, gave his life that we might not see color
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Jan 31, 2022 19:56
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Byzantine posted:Play Twilight Struggle a few times and you'll get it. A better understanding of countries, conflicts, and history is probably play Paradox games from beginning to end on any historical settings. Start at Imperator, then Crusader Kings, then Europa Universalis, then Victoria, and end with Hearts of Iron and you'll probably have an unironic grasp of the various hegemonies and wars and formation of nation-states, etc. I mean, I say this jokingly but...like, not. There's lots of real history embedded in the games so for many it may actually be a way to learn something, even if it is gamified. At the very least, you'll have a REALLY good understanding of geography. Okay class, your syllabus is to play Hearts of Iron IV on historical iron man mode through 1946 and tell me about each civil war, faction and their leaders, major sea battle, invasion, peace conference, and general you encounter and what their effect on the game was. You will then write a 10 page paper on your course of action and reflect on the causes and effects of each faction focus. dialhforhero has a new favorite as of 20:05 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 19:56
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when i was in k-6 grade school the white music teacher would teach the 90% white student population spirituals as part of the curriculum with some historical contextualization but sometimes there was a dance which felt really weird especially because i later learned at least 3 were minstrel show standards
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Jan 31, 2022 19:58
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Andos El Pantos posted:My 10th grade history teacher said the war in Vietnam ended in a tie. Mine wouldn't recognize it as a true "War" since it was a 'conflict'. This, as well as Korea, was how he justified America never losing a WAR. 
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Jan 31, 2022 19:58
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dialhforhero posted:Teaching about the Berlin Wall and teaching about the Civil War and slavery are not the same though. gosh I sure am glad we have this dumb weird loser telling a bunch of people they don’t know how wrong they are about their lived experiences
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Jan 31, 2022 20:10
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Rockman Reserve posted:gosh I sure am glad we have this dumb weird loser telling a bunch of people they don’t know how wrong they are about their lived experiences He's like that guy from quantum leap but only for history teachers when they're about to teach the cold war so these criticisms are all very personal.
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Jan 31, 2022 20:20
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Bismuth posted:Same here, we got some pilgrim poo poo to revolutionary war in elementary school(avoiding the pesky genocide parts) then hopped straight over to wwi, wwii, and then the war on terror in highscool This is weird to me because War on Terror is decidedly Post-History for me (in the sense of history class, not the 90s idea of us being at the "end of history" or whatever). Being in high school when 9/11 happened, it was basically a loop of Pilgrims->1776->1812->Civil War->Nothing Happened Here We Promise->World War I->Great Depression->World War II then back to pilgrims. The latter years got somewhat into civil rights and the cold war, and we may have even talked about the 1980s by senior year.
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Jan 31, 2022 20:27
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christmas boots posted:He's like that guy from quantum leap but only for history teachers when they're about to teach the cold war so these criticisms are all very personal. one of the two major standardized tests doesn't even have a history section and the other one is only 60 minutes with a heavy bias towards us history pre-1899, and schools generally teach to the tests these are publicly available facts but i think the one guy frantically telling us all that we're clearly misremembering might be on to something
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Jan 31, 2022 20:28
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I meant specifically high school history, because that's the only courses I can remember how much was taught to me at school and not poo poo from like watching an episode of Histeria! Question for younger Americans in this thread (I'm 38, so I'm guess I'm asking for people in the under 28 crowd?) how did they teach you about the civil war growing up? I very much remember being told as a child it was absolutely about slavery, then as I got older they did some more "well, there were a lot of complex things" then in high school (At my high school and I think this was either a school district policy or a maybe a state law) you took American history your junior year (so age 16 or 17 mostly) they were actually very much back into "yeah, it was about slavery" which is the elevator pitch truth, there's other factors, but none of those factors would have mattered near as much if not for slavery also being a thing.
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Jan 31, 2022 20:39
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