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Unsinkabear posted:That leaves me with only one more question: what do you guys use your rotary encoders for? I know I want one encoder for volume on the Quefrency's left half, but I'm thinking I may skip the second one on the right half in favor of an extra regular key unless someone has a compelling use case for it. I don't really use the encoders that much anymore after I moved to a MIDI controller + Voicemeeter for volume control shenanigans (then ditched all of that for a GoXLR afterwards) Nowadays I use it to toggle between system volume control, page up and page down for super fast scrolling and mouse wheel left and right for horizontal scrolling.
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Jan 31, 2022 01:04
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wolrah posted:Let's have a race. I'll swap my hot swap keys, you solder. How many missions deep do you think I can get in Hitman 3 after completing my swap before you're done? i'm in this to play around with building stuff and Adult Legos is a lot less fun than doing more of the work myself. don't really care about speed of the result, care about the fun to be had in the process. Midjack posted:lmao if I had to solder stuff at work I definitely wouldn't care to do it for fun but doing some hand work is part of the appeal to me redeyes posted:Eat a dick. I did this on a 104 key. With Leds. That is loving 424 desolders. Id rather never do that again. nobody made you do that
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Jan 31, 2022 21:21
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i'm in this to play around with building stuff and Adult Legos is a lot less fun than doing more of the work myself. But some people don't care for that, ie a lot of people in this thread. I mean poo poo, I got into building computers because it was literally expensive, adult LEGO and I didn't have to learn any skills I'll never use again. I do, however, understand the appeal. For instance, I got into flying FPV drones, but I didn't care to learn all of the bullshit that comes with it so I just got the DJI FPV that cut out a ton of that bullshit and tinkering required. My life already has enough hobbies and I want to keep them as simple as possible.
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Feb 1, 2022 03:11
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Both solder and hotswap builds are good, that's my opinion thanks please enjoy this hot take
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Feb 1, 2022 03:50
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interrodactyl posted:Both solder and hotswap builds are good, that's my opinion thanks please enjoy this hot take hosed up if true
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Feb 1, 2022 06:32
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How many people in here use split keyboards? I have a Moonlander and I like it mostly, but there are a couple issues I have with it and I'm curious to see what's out there. After initially liking the "ortholinear" layout I'm starting to sour on it a bit, I'm not convinced it's better overall. It definitely has strengths and the more grid-like setup makes an intuitive kind of sense, but overall I feel like my fingers actually move more, especially my index fingers on both hands which have two columns of keys to contend with compared to the (mostly) one of other fingers. Typing on the KBD67 I got my partner (thanks for the recs on that, btw) made me feel like staggered is probably better, even if I did hate not having a split. The thumb cluster was always the weakest part of the moonlander and even many many months of using it exclusively I can't effectively make use of any but the inner-most keys during normal typing, the rest are relegated to less-frequent functions and hotkeys which, while useful, is not what I was hoping for out of the thumb keys. Problem is... from what I've seen there's not much out there that'll be much different. There's the ergodox, which is almost the same as the moonlander with a slightly better thumb cluster but that's about it. The Dygma Raise whose gimmick is... being able to stick the split halves together, but that kind of defeats the purpose and also makes it impossible for there to be useful inner keys on each half which other splits have. I'd have a hard time losing those. The "ultimate hacking keybard" seems about the same in that respect. So mostly I'm just looking for what other options are out there and what peoples experiences have been. I'd like to experiment a little bit more. All that said I do like this board and don't regret moving to a split even for a second. I'll never, ever go back. Also it has the most god-like wrist rests a keyboard could have. I know I'm going to be let down by anything else I use in that respect, no question.
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Feb 1, 2022 06:35
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Taffer posted:How many people in here use split keyboards? I have a Moonlander and I like it mostly, but there are a couple issues I have with it and I'm curious to see what's out there. After initially liking the "ortholinear" layout I'm starting to sour on it a bit, I'm not convinced it's better overall. It definitely has strengths and the more grid-like setup makes an intuitive kind of sense, but overall I feel like my fingers actually move more, especially my index fingers on both hands which have two columns of keys to contend with compared to the (mostly) one of other fingers. Typing on the KBD67 I got my partner (thanks for the recs on that, btw) made me feel like staggered is probably better, even if I did hate not having a split. I never got used to ortho, miss my staggered regular board but I'll never go back to a single board. Too much relief on the shoulders and back with the split. And also like, those knobs at the thumb are dope as hell Maybe it's not the worst thing in the world to slow down a bit, I mean I used to get so sore and cramped up with the fullsize (writer/coder that stumbled into management). Got my macropad for things I do often, so I can replace tons of typing with one keystroke.
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Feb 1, 2022 06:41
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God speed to anyone who kickstartered the keystone keyboard, they're still discovering poo poo like this in their pcb design:
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Feb 1, 2022 06:54
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Adult Legos ahem. https://www.shapeways.com/product/5Y45ER4ED/kego
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Feb 1, 2022 07:49
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Taffer posted:split kb's I'm kind of with you on split ortho for now. Though to be fair I never gave it a fair shake. I probably only used my keeb.io Iris for about 2 weeks before I just used the left side for gaming keypad duty. Then just went back to regular keyboards. I always want to go back and try again with an actual tenting kit though, might give it another shot someday. I'm currently trying to daily drive a split staggered board (keeb.io Sinc) and the experience is much better. I like how my wrists feel without the ulnar deviation on a regular keyboard. Though with the way I'm using it, I might be better off with an Alice style keyboard or something.
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Feb 1, 2022 07:51
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Taffer posted:How many people in here use split keyboards? I have a Moonlander and I like it mostly, but there are a couple issues I have with it and I'm curious to see what's out there. After initially liking the "ortholinear" layout I'm starting to sour on it a bit, I'm not convinced it's better overall. It definitely has strengths and the more grid-like setup makes an intuitive kind of sense, but overall I feel like my fingers actually move more, especially my index fingers on both hands which have two columns of keys to contend with compared to the (mostly) one of other fingers. Typing on the KBD67 I got my partner (thanks for the recs on that, btw) made me feel like staggered is probably better, even if I did hate not having a split. I use a split ortholinear and like it. I think it has been about a year? My board is basically a Planck chopped in half though, so no thumb clusters and I don't have the function keys in the middle like on the Moonlander. I also use "home-row modifier keys", so ctrl, alt, shift, and winkey are under the home row keys. I was also conscious of the stretching when I first started. I think a huge part of it is muscle memory, but I also think the staggered qwerty layout is actually not all that bad--the stagger seems to put some often used keys like T and N in convenient spots, while the ortholinear layout erases those advantages. On a layout like colemak-dh, which is what I actually use when I type on the ortho board, the stretching is not an issue, but who is to say whether that is because of the layout or because I've just stuck with it and picked up the muscle memory? To be honest I'd say there is not that much advantage to the ortholinear layout in terms of typing. I think where it really shines is when you use lots of special layers, because it makes it very easy to keep track of where everything is, and makes doing things like using one half as a numpad or special function buttons a breeze. I think the split and tenting makes by far the biggest difference if you are typing a lot. Then maybe stuff like macros for things you do a lot, using the modifier keys on both sides of the board, not stretching or twisting your wrist for keys or combos, etc. Ortho or staggered, I don't think that part really matters all that much.
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Feb 1, 2022 11:13
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Taffer posted:How many people in here use split keyboards? I have a Moonlander and I like it mostly, but there are a couple issues I have with it and I'm curious to see what's out there. After initially liking the "ortholinear" layout I'm starting to sour on it a bit, I'm not convinced it's better overall. It definitely has strengths and the more grid-like setup makes an intuitive kind of sense, but overall I feel like my fingers actually move more, especially my index fingers on both hands which have two columns of keys to contend with compared to the (mostly) one of other fingers. Typing on the KBD67 I got my partner (thanks for the recs on that, btw) made me feel like staggered is probably better, even if I did hate not having a split. I have a keeb.io Iris 2 as my daily driver at work, and I really like it. I haven't tried something similar but with staggered, but I don't mind the ortho. It was a bit of a learning curve to get used to, both muscle-memorying the regular letters and learning where I had various specials and what my layers did, but it didn't take too long and switching between it and regulars feels seamless. Compared to an Ergodox EZ i touched a bit I found the thumb cluster far more useable, and easily hit the buttons. It does feel a bit...flimsy? It doesn't really have a case, just two plates connected by screws. I also don't have any tenting hardware. I think getting at least sidepanels and some tenting stuff would make it even nicer. I would like to try something like the kinesis advantage 2, but split, like https://github.com/adereth/dactyl-keyboard. Generally I'm not really sold on ortho, but I don't mind it. I just don't think either staggered or ortho layouts are really designed based on "how do hands and fingers work". One is from mechanical considerations of a typewriter and the other is "straight lines are nice, I think". So not really any great tips, besides "I like my iris but haven't tried much else".
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Feb 1, 2022 13:59
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mewse posted:God speed to anyone who kickstartered the keystone keyboard, they're still discovering poo poo like this in their pcb design: Good lord that is a nightmare rats nest. It looks like they dropped everything in and just left the auto trace function to come up with whatever it wanted.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:30
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Taffer posted:Problem is... from what I've seen there's not much out there that'll be much different. There's the ergodox, which is almost the same as the moonlander with a slightly better thumb cluster but that's about it. There are enough options out there that I feel like surely I must be misunderstanding what you're saying here. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Matias Ergo Pro (programmable edition only, the older ones had QA problems) are both very popular options that come with wrist rests. I can only attest to the wrist rests on the Kinesis, but to me they were perfect. There's also the Keebio Sinc or Quefrency, depending on whether you like 75% or 65%. Each of those have hotswap and kit options, as well. I've even seen some decent clones of older models on AliBaba Imo you're right about ortho not being better than staggered, but I think you're also going to struggle to get the value you pictured out of thumb clusters no matter what. That isn't just something I've heard about the Moonlander.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:56
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mewse posted:God speed to anyone who kickstartered the keystone keyboard, they're still discovering poo poo like this in their pcb design: Same Input Club that designed the K Type and its auto routed crap PCB.
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Feb 1, 2022 15:35
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The Electronaut posted:Same Input Club that designed the K Type and its auto routed crap PCB. Lmao, I didn’t notice it’s an I:C cuckstarter. You’d surely expect better from them.
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Feb 1, 2022 16:10
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Opioid posted:Good lord that is a nightmare rats nest. It looks like they dropped everything in and just left the auto trace function to come up with whatever it wanted. lol, that looks like pretty near exactly what they did
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Feb 1, 2022 16:39
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So I only found that update because I was curious, the beam spring hall effect keyboard seemed like really interesting tech. This is the story of the keystone PCB so far:quote:Project launches quote:Project funds successfully  December 2019 posted:PCBs went through several revisions over the past few months. February 2020 posted:Full-Size PCB Effectively Complete March 2020 posted:PCB Development May 2020 posted:Full-size and TKL sample PCBs should arrive soon (a couple of weeks). They’ll undergo testing and evaluation — these may be the final revisions. July 2020 posted:Full size and TKL PCB prototypes are validated for final firmware development. October 2020 posted:Both PCB designs are finalized. We’re going to order components soon, which typically have their own lead times and minor production challenges. The parts can’t be ordered too early because (oddly enough) humidity in Southern China can affect solder adhesion. Ah yes, the old "can't order components because of the humidity in China" excuse December 2020 posted:Remaining TODO: May 2021 posted:The full size pre-production prototype just arrived at our office and initial testing is happening now! August 2021 posted:The plate doesn’t require any changes, so it’s only the circuit board that needs attention. Thankfully PCB adjustments are easy before large scale “spins” begin. November 2021 posted:Case and PCB designs are confirmed for Keystone! January 2022 posted:It turned out that we had not specified a sufficient keep-out buffer for the switch alignment pins. This is just the PCB, the firmware is a total mystery being written in embedded rust and there's a part about the beam springs failing to metal fatigue where they say "we're not metallurgists" lol
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Feb 1, 2022 17:04
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never kickstart
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Feb 1, 2022 17:07
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what's supposedly good about that thing in the first place?
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Feb 1, 2022 17:13
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:what's supposedly good about that thing in the first place? Hall effect keyboards are a historical curiosity using magnets to determine switch actuation (ie contactless switching). I think chyrosan has some videos on old hall effect keyboards. Beam spring are also a historical curiosity like the old IBM model F switches which many swear are the best keyboard switches ever made. Input club decided to collaborate with kailh and produce a hall effect beam spring switch called SILO, that's the concept behind the keystone. The switches are essentially dumb sliders with magnets in them and the PCB does all the sensing, basically just like optical switches, but hall effect can have analog sensitivity (like the wooting keyboards)
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Feb 1, 2022 17:23
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Anyone who has ever spent more than an afternoon looking at a blueprint would know you need to specify tolerances and relationships between components... especially for an application like this. I wouldn't count on getting anything from those people soon. I bet the manufacturer is doing most of the heavy lifting pointing out all the crap wrong with the design.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:02
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These kickstarters are amazing schadefreude.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:50
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Buck Turgidson posted:To be honest I'd say there is not that much advantage to the ortholinear layout in terms of typing. I think where it really shines is when you use lots of special layers, because it makes it very easy to keep track of where everything is, and makes doing things like using one half as a numpad or special function buttons a breeze. Yeah I definitely feel this, I use layers for things like numpad and arrow keys and things being on a grid definitely helps everything be in order. In terms of muscle memory I definitely have it, I've been using the Moonlander exclusively since march and have my normal typing speed somewhere in the 70-80 range. I just think a normal qwerty arrangement on a ortho layout requires more finger movement, on a standard staggered board I'd have no trouble getting 100-120 wpm and I've never been able to come close to that after almost a year using ortho. Phosphine posted:Generally I'm not really sold on ortho, but I don't mind it. I just don't think either staggered or ortho layouts are really designed based on "how do hands and fingers work". One is from mechanical considerations of a typewriter and the other is "straight lines are nice, I think". This is a good way of putting it. Now that I've put the time in to learn it properly and any sheen of newness is gone, I think I actually like the grid layout but I think it's too big. Like, I think the keys are physically too large and far apart, and I say that as someone with larger than average hands - I don't think you feel this in a staggered layout as much because your fingers are criss-crossing more and the extra space helps with that, but on an ortho layout your fingers never really fight with each other, just how far they have to go. And your index fingers definitely feel that. Probably doesn't help that I did stick with a qwerty layout instead of learning something more optimized for finger movement like colmak or whatever. If there was an ortho layout where everything was like 20% smaller and closer together I think I'd enjoy it a lot more. Unsinkabear posted:There are enough options out there that I feel like surely I must be misunderstanding what you're saying here. The Kinesis Freestyle Edge and Matias Ergo Pro (programmable edition only, the older ones had QA problems) are both very popular options that come with wrist rests. I can only attest to the wrist rests on the Kinesis, but to me they were perfect. There's also the Keebio Sinc or Quefrency, depending on whether you like 75% or 65%. Each of those have hotswap and kit options, as well. I've even seen some decent clones of older models on AliBaba I'm looking through the Keebio stuff, I hadn't seen all of these before so thank you! I guess I'm spoiled for choice - I actually do quite like my moonlander and it's pretty clearly top-of-the-line in a lot of respects compared to others in the same category, it's just little things where I feel like... I want a moonlander but with slight adjustments. That's partly why I'm just asking for what people have used and what they liked about it, basically trying to get an idea of what's out there in a more useful way than a list of products. 
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Feb 2, 2022 02:21
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Just want to say that I really appreciate the ortho impressions on this page; was always a curiosity to me, but now I think I'm definitely not going to get one anytime soon if it makes my fingers more tired, since I don't use layers that much (so far)
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Feb 2, 2022 02:41
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Artelier posted:Just want to say that I really appreciate the ortho impressions on this page; was always a curiosity to me, but now I think I'm definitely not going to get one anytime soon if it makes my fingers more tired, since I don't use layers that much (so far) Ymmv, but for me it doesn't really feel like tiredness (much of that is just a matter of training anyway), it's just.. a little slower because you have to move further. There are some cases where it's actually closer (like the distance between J and N on qwerty), but some motions become a little more awkward. Like I feel like every time I press T my whole hand has to move, and that just slows everything down. I could probably refine some of that with more training though. But if you've ever thought about it you should definitely try a split board! Life-changing for someone who basically types for a living. The thing that I've been bummed about (hence my posts) is a bunch of keyboards seem unwilling to embrace the fact that the standard space in the middle of the keyboard is liberated and that you can put more stuff there, most of them just... cut it right down the middle and that's it. I guess it's also a big trend for boards to have less keys in general so it's not surprising, but kind of disappointing. The moonlander feels like one of of the few that just throws a bunch of extra keys all around the standard character keys and they're really, really useful, I use all of them.
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Feb 2, 2022 03:00
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I use an ortho for my day-to-day non-work stuff, and it's fine. Part of that is that I use Colemak for my layout. QWERTY was designed not for finger movement but to stop typewriter arms from hitting each other. I think that ortho works best with layouts designed to mostly stay on the home row and utilize the pointer and middle fingers the most. Colemak and its variations, Workman, etc. But learning a new layout can take a while. It took me about 2 or 3 months to get Colemak ingrained in my brain.
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Feb 2, 2022 03:01
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I switched to a Moonlander last March and ortho was a way bigger adjustment than the split or the thumb clusters. The main ergonomic gain was split, then thumb clusters, then tenting. Split on its own was massive though, I was flirting with hand numbness before switching and now I'm back to just gravelly wrist joints. Ortho is either marginal or a wash from an ergo perspective but aesthetically ortho looks way better on a split than staggered in my opinion. Taffer is right that most split keyboards just don't have enough keys. If you want One Weird Trick for better ergo but don't want to leave qwerty entirely, swap ' and ;
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Feb 2, 2022 07:25
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Dawning Horror posted:If you want One Weird Trick for better ergo but don't want to leave qwerty entirely, swap ' and ;  Even if you use semicolons a lot (programming) it's still a lot better. Also set up a layer for arrow keys that doesn't require to move your hand position anywhere. I hold a thumb key below M in the standard layout, and arrow keys are where I J K L are. It's wonderful.
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Feb 2, 2022 07:51
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I'm using an Ortho with QWERTY right now and after 2~ weeks I'm pretty proficient, almost up to my normal typing speed though when I have a flub it feels like my brain completely stops working and I have to stop and think a bit longer but I'm sure that'll go away with time. The hardest part about Ortho I found was my right had to completely readjust over the course of the last 2 weeks while the left picked it up actually quite quickly. Still, my right hand feels pretty stiff since it isn't "broken in," but another part of this is that I'm a guitarist and my left hand also has 17 years of nimbleness built into it due to it being my fretting hand. But yeah, the advantage of Ortho is in the layers (which I guess isn't quite an Ortho thing. Next to my tiny spacebar I have a modifier key that allows me to transition to Arrow Keys and a 10 key, both right under my fingers without having to move at all. It's loving wonderful for editing text or putting numbers down. I've actually found myself using the 10 key layer instead of the normal top keys since I technically have to move a lot less. I also set a layer where all of my keys are shifted to the right by 1 so in standard homerow position I have WASD where ESDF is on a normal keyboard, once again not requiring me to move my hand and not requiring me to rebind controls in games to set poo poo to ESDF. It's more fuckery because if I want to type in a game everything being shifted over throws all of that poo poo out of the window. I haven't messed with it much, but it was just a thought experiment I thought "Eh, why the gently caress not?"
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Feb 2, 2022 11:15
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Dimestore Merlin posted:I use an ortho for my day-to-day non-work stuff, and it's fine. Part of that is that I use Colemak for my layout. QWERTY was designed not for finger movement but to stop typewriter arms from hitting each other. I think that ortho works best with layouts designed to mostly stay on the home row and utilize the pointer and middle fingers the most. Colemak and its variations, Workman, etc. But learning a new layout can take a while. It took me about 2 or 3 months to get Colemak ingrained in my brain.
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Feb 2, 2022 11:41
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i think i have to buy a sinc
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Feb 2, 2022 19:03
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Speaking of which... Sinc update: 3d printed some knobs and matching wrist rests. Appropriate widths for both sides this time. So it works well split and if I ever want to connect up the 2. Also decided to sand and stain it a darker shade than before. Just waiting on Boba U4 Silents to come in and I should be done tinkering with this board.
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Feb 2, 2022 20:39
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Alpacas are good, I thought my kailh silvers were okay but comparing them side by side the silvers are lighter but noticeably less smooth. There's no audible scratch and it looks like they've improved their factory lube, some people were complaining about it previously but these seem good. SSJ_naruto_2003 fucked around with this message at 20:48 on Feb 2, 2022 |
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Feb 2, 2022 20:45
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:i think i have to buy a sinc Do it! I'm still waffling hard between Sinc (they just restocked the white plates!) or Quefrency  Constellation I posted:Speaking of which... Sinc update: New shade looks gorgeous. Where did you get the (seemingly) wooden case and knobs? I thought it was printed originally, but now I can't tell Unsinkabear fucked around with this message at 13:42 on Feb 3, 2022 |
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Feb 3, 2022 13:31
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Knobs, case and wrist rests are all 3d printed. The case itself is with a wood PLA material which I then sanded and stained.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:09
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https://keystonecaps.store/?product=game-roy-advance-full-keyboard-kit-group-buy-preorder Available until the end of today, thought you guys would appreciate this
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Feb 4, 2022 21:24
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I bought a Ducky One 2 skyline and I was really happy with it, but then I spilled something on it, so I read some directions online, used polydent to clean the keycaps and ultimately ended up just washing it with slightly soapy water, let it fully dry. But when I put it back together it feels "mushy" when I remember feeling like it was crisp. Should I get some keyboard lube and try lubing up the switches maybe?
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Feb 5, 2022 19:41
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I am very new to the awesome world of keyboards and want to buy a really pretty keycap set for mine, but have a question. My keyboard is this: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08B47K2CR/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1 Ergonomics is really important for me, and this keyboard feels really good for my wrists. Is it possible to customize the keycaps for this and its curved/raised positioning?
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Feb 5, 2022 21:06
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fawning deference posted:I am very new to the awesome world of keyboards and want to buy a really pretty keycap set for mine, but have a question. Probably not, but you can build a keyboard with similar height curve.
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Feb 5, 2022 22:23
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