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JBP posted:You just get in that rear end against anything bigger than a man and stay there rallying if you make a mistake until it dies. I've spent all these years clowning on Souls games for the tried and true "just circle around and get up in that rear end" without once thinking about what I'd do if one of my friends' smaller, faster kids suddenly went postal on me with a knife. The first few are gonna get dropkicked, but the others are gonna watch and learn, and I'm bound to get tired eventually.
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Jan 31, 2022 22:02
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Lexorin posted:It loses 1x times fun every time you have to do it over again because you didn't anticipate something or kinda hosed up. My solution to that was playing the game slowly and methodically, studying my surroundings, being over-careful and not rushing myself. It created a tension that's not found in many other games outside of roguelikes (which are probably my favorite and most played genre). I loved DeS, DS1 and DS2 because they were all games that supported that slow-crawl playstyle and it made them completely unique - there aren't many slow-paced, thoughtful third person action games. The levels were long and dangerous and there was a lot at stake as you explored them which heightened the sense of tension and made every encounter feel impactful. Resource scarcity was meaningful because there was no telling when you'd see the next bonfire (especially with many of them being hidden). DS1 & 2 both let you easily hide behind giant tower shields and the games felt largely about that moment of being a wimpy knight taking shelter behind a huge wall of a shield while dragon's fire rained around you and thinking "well poo poo, what do I do next?" DS3 took the game in a different direction and to me it felt like that entire theme was stripped out of it. The enemies and bosses are harder to turtle and be contemplative against, everything is a bit more fast-paced, the environments feel short and gamey and like clearly-directed videogame environments instead of weird places full of trouble that you want no part of. It made me feel more like an action hero who dies and comes back to life a lot than a wimpy knight shaking in his boots because he's been fighting this dragon over and over and keeps getting roasted. That could in some part just be from getting better at the games overall and being less scared of the enemies, but I still get that feeling when I play the first three. I never played Bloodborne much because both times I tried I had my save ruined after 4-5 hours by weird hacked/glitched multiplayer chalice dungeons I tried to join that trapped me in empty rooms beneath the level geometry with active bosses I couldn't see or fight, and finding a way to die would just respawn me in that room. But I got much the same feeling from it that I did from DS3 - I felt like a hunter instead of the hunted and it totally wrecked what drew me to the series originally. They're still objectively good games but they just really were not my thing. It feels like DS2 was the last traditional *Souls game to me. I liked Sekiro because it leaned hard enough into that different direction to become a thing of its own but it never captivated me the way DeS/DS1/DS2 did I'm mostly hype for Elden Ring because it looks like a fresh take either way. deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 22:27
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DS3 was the first good souls game, Sekiro was mostly an improvement with a few sidegrades (mostly the loss of multiplayer, which is huge but also allows it to be far more focused in its mechanics) and I suspect the same will be true of Bloodborne if it ever comes to god's own platform e: "the levels feel like a video game" is a good thing. they're actually designed to function as environments for play, that's what makes them interesting! it's hard enough making something that works well as both as a PvE gauntlet and a PvP arena without adding further priorities because someone's verisimilitude wasn't tickled enough. Tuxedo Catfish fucked around with this message at 22:37 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 22:30
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I think I have in large part played way too many videogames in my life and have become jaded enough w/r/t them that environments feeling gamey is not a good thing IMO. Being gamey makes them predictable which takes all of my fun out of exploring them, the encounters start to feel like mechanical processes instead of dangerous threats, the world stops surprising me, and I start skipping a lot of exploration because what's the point of exploring when loot I don't need to beat the game is all I get out of it? I loved the sense of being hopelessly lost in an area that made no sense to me or exploring just to see what the hell is out there in DS1/DS2 specifically because it's not something I get to experience in heavily gamified games that I've played too much of. In DS3 I felt like I always knew what was out there even before taking a closer look because things were pretty clearly earmarked and it was designed like I would naturally expect a videogame environment to be designed. That's a fair point about PvP arenas but I've never engaged with PvP in any of these games and sacrificing the interesting aspects of the PvE arena for the sake of becoming a better PvP arena is exactly the kind of thing that made me like BB/DS3 less deep dish peat moss fucked around with this message at 22:40 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 22:35
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yeah i don't actually disagree with any of your characterization at all, i just think all of that stuff owns lol like just a few pages ago i was praising what you call "predictability" as a major contributor to fairness and a counterpoint to people who says souls games are just about trial-and-error memorization 
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Jan 31, 2022 22:39
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I can recognize that DS3 (and probably BB though I have minimal experience with it) are objectively better "games" because that stuff is all way more tightly designed, yeah. I just wish more games focused on being interesting adventures like the first few Souls games did. Elden Ring seems like it's a big step in that direction and I'm excited to find out just how far it steps 
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Jan 31, 2022 22:42
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deep dish peat moss posted:I can recognize that DS3 (and probably BB though I have minimal experience with it) are objectively better "games" because that stuff is all way more tightly designed, yeah. Yeah this has me excited as well. Watching Zullie/Illusory Wall videos exploring level geometry and I always get a feeling of “ooh I wonder what’s behind there…oh, obviously nothing really because the player was never meant to see the level from that direction.” Not that it’s a knock against From’s games just because there isn’t like an a fully modeled abandoned shopping complex just out of sight right around the corner in Yarhnam. I always wanted to explore the “skybox” town in Boletaria and Eleum Loyce and now in Elden Ring there are a lot more places you can see that you can actually go to. (Of course that no doubt impacts the level design. Can’t create a an entire low poly town that looks good from a distance because the player could actually walk right up to it. Either it has to be fully fleshed our, or more likely cut.) I also imagine the 1.0 version will probably have some pretty crazy sequence breaks because of jumping. Even the best team of QA testers can’t compete with millions of players jumping at every conceivable angle of every piece of level geometry.
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Jan 31, 2022 22:59
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DourCricket posted:This dev is fuckin brilliant. Do we know how much of the game this covers? I believe it's just up through Gascoigne, but she also added some original content
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Jan 31, 2022 23:21
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deep dish peat moss posted:I never played Bloodborne much because both times I tried I had my save ruined after 4-5 hours by weird hacked/glitched multiplayer chalice dungeons I tried to join that trapped me in empty rooms beneath the level geometry with active bosses I couldn't see or fight, and finding a way to die would just respawn me in that room. But I got much the same feeling from it that I did from DS3 - I felt like a hunter instead of the hunted and it totally wrecked what drew me to the series originally. This is an extremely strange and rare thing to happen not just once, but twice to someone. My recommendation if you decide to play Bloodborne in the future is to not do that again
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Feb 1, 2022 00:53
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Tuxedo Catfish posted:I suspect the same will be true of Bloodborne if it ever comes to god's own platform But we're never getting a Switch port...
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Feb 1, 2022 00:58
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I just remembered that for DS1 was so difficult for me that I ended up following a guide that I'm sure I found on SA. It was something a poster created and I think it was in pdf form. It described how to kill the hellkite drake with arrows in order to get the drake sword. Also it explicitly stated that it wouldn't be effective for very long because it couldn't be upgraded. Does anyone remember this? edit: it was done by forums user sheep-goats huh fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 02:59
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Goons, we now live in the month of Elden Ring!
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Feb 1, 2022 04:56
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CottonWolf posted:Goons, we now live in the month of Elden Ring! Been living in it for near 15 hours. I feel jittery.
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Feb 1, 2022 04:57
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deep dish peat moss posted:My solution to that was playing the game slowly and methodically, studying my surroundings, being over-careful and not rushing myself. It created a tension that's not found in many other games outside of roguelikes (which are probably my favorite and most played genre). I loved DeS, DS1 and DS2 because they were all games that supported that slow-crawl playstyle and it made them completely unique - there aren't many slow-paced, thoughtful third person action games. The levels were long and dangerous and there was a lot at stake as you explored them which heightened the sense of tension and made every encounter feel impactful. Resource scarcity was meaningful because there was no telling when you'd see the next bonfire (especially with many of them being hidden). DS1 & 2 both let you easily hide behind giant tower shields and the games felt largely about that moment of being a wimpy knight taking shelter behind a huge wall of a shield while dragon's fire rained around you and thinking "well poo poo, what do I do next?" this is great, and spot on. It's the great shame that as fromsoft has refined the formula and created some of the best fights ever in videogames, they've lost the mystery element. I often think about how the pendant in Dark Souls 1 inspired all this speculation, because the world of Dark Souls 1 feels so immersive and real that it's not hard to believe that there's some obscure spot you perform some emote with the pendant equipped and get brought to the world where the triforce is hidden. The latter games did away with that and focused more on ultra tight combat and cinematic boss fights. You should give Bloodborne another chance though, I think it's really the only game that can compete with DS1 in terms of creating a compelling and immersive world.
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Feb 1, 2022 05:55
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deep dish peat moss posted:That could in some part just be from getting better at the games overall and being less scared of the enemies, but I still get that feeling when I play the first three. It's that, but it's also that they had to design games for people who have played souls games before. Resurrecting skeletons might have been an ohshit moment in DS1 but you just stood there waiting for them to pop up again in DS3. You see a bonewheel and you know how to react. No one will be shocked by a second gargoyle. Most importantly, barring some dick moves in DS2, everyone knows you can just run past everything. So the focus shifts onto the bosses. I'm sure ER will have plenty of new surprises and fun exploration but if you've played through all these games dozens of times already Man With Sword and Spooky Dungeon aren't going to rattle you.
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Feb 1, 2022 08:46
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I have only finished BB and Demon's souls. I hated them so much but they were bloody fantastic. The Swamp of Sorrows made me and my brother in law go mad.
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Feb 1, 2022 09:26
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DS3 takes the level design philosophy of DS1 and just makes the environments bigger and more intricate than before and crucially doesn't totally fall apart in the last 1/3 of the game. its level design rules idk what people are talking about the only thing it lacks is the same sort of interconnected world as DS1, but that's an understandable absence if you think about what actually went into making that work in DS1. the levels all loop back on themselves more intricately so it makes up for it in some ways
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Feb 1, 2022 10:20
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I'm playing through DS3 for the first time since it was released and I remember so little of it (probably because I used to play games stoned) and it is way harder than I remember it. Also the world is so much smaller than I remembered.
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Feb 1, 2022 10:48
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dodgeblan posted:Dark Souls 1 inspired all this speculation, because the world of Dark Souls 1 feels so immersive and real that it's not hard to believe that there's some obscure spot you perform some emote with the pendant equipped and get brought to the world where the triforce is hidden. Isn't that literally how you reach the dragon level in DS3? I think the speculation is just resolved online much more quickly nowadays because the games are crazy popular, so instead of guesses on day 3 there are just guides and answers. I'm sure ER will have some obscure stuff that many people will end up just reading about in the wiki rather than "risk" missing things. It's probably hard to be surprising when people are expecting those Souls-isms more now too.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:00
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I wanted to grab a replay on Dark1 at 60fps, but the ps5 is in another room. I'm never going to try playing souls over remote play again because that was the hardest souls game I've ever played.lih posted:the only thing it lacks is the same sort of interconnected world as DS1, but that's an understandable absence if you think about what actually went into making that work in DS1. the levels all loop back on themselves more intricately so it makes up for it in some ways There's a bit more elegant take on this in Sekiro, which kind of splits the difference by being interconnected but without the massive areas. The paths themselves are still very videogamey and linear but there are so many viable routes that open up you can complete large chunks of the game in between a couple of roadblock bosses.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:15
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CottonWolf posted:Goons, we now live in the month of Elden Ring! The greatest month in human history? Perhaps so! And yes definitely.
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Feb 1, 2022 12:30
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lih posted:DS3 takes the level design philosophy of DS1 and just makes the environments bigger and more intricate than before and crucially doesn't totally fall apart in the last 1/3 of the game. its level design rules idk what people are talking about DS3 is super linear, which is the biggest strike against it in my opinion. Some of the levels themselves were very well designed — but there was no sense of exploration in the world itself. DS1’s interconnected world was part of its unique experience, but not the core of it. The more careful curation of the experience in DS3 strips it of a sense of experimentation and mystery. Mailer posted:It's that, but it's also that they had to design games for people who have played souls games before. Resurrecting skeletons might have been an ohshit moment in DS1 but you just stood there waiting for them to pop up again in DS3. You see a bonewheel and you know how to react. No one will be shocked by a second gargoyle. Most importantly, barring some dick moves in DS2, everyone knows you can just run past everything. So the focus shifts onto the bosses. While this is true, I don’t think it necessarily has to be so. It would be quite rash to say no developer could ever surprise a player again with a similar formula; it’s just difficult and perhaps unlikely. Whether or not Elden Ring is just Big Dark Souls (which would be enough to place it among the very top tier of games alone) is largely up to whether From can shake things up enough to surprise us.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:15
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CottonWolf posted:Goons, we now live in the month of Elden Ring! Patiently waiting for the Elden Ring backlash to begin.
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Feb 1, 2022 13:46
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deep dish peat moss posted:My solution to that was playing the game slowly and methodically, studying my surroundings, being over-careful and not rushing myself. It created a tension that's not found in many other games outside of roguelikes (which are probably my favorite and most played genre). I loved DeS, DS1 and DS2 because they were all games that supported that slow-crawl playstyle and it made them completely unique - there aren't many slow-paced, thoughtful third person action games. The levels were long and dangerous and there was a lot at stake as you explored them which heightened the sense of tension and made every encounter feel impactful. Resource scarcity was meaningful because there was no telling when you'd see the next bonfire (especially with many of them being hidden). DS1 & 2 both let you easily hide behind giant tower shields and the games felt largely about that moment of being a wimpy knight taking shelter behind a huge wall of a shield while dragon's fire rained around you and thinking "well poo poo, what do I do next?" I mostly agree with this. I still love Dark Souls 3 the most out of all the souls games, but I don't like how you have to rely much more on dodge rolling than shield blocking for everything. That's mostly for aesthetic reasons though. I think rolling through everything looks loving stupid. If you could replace your roll by a Bloodborne/Sekiro style quickstep more easily, I wouldn't mind it as much. For this reason, I'm very excited that Elden Ring will both have a quickstep (although maybe only as a weapon art) and make shields good to use again. I'm not sure I agree with you about the environments of DS3 however. It has some weak levels but also some of the best individual levels of the whole series. The Undead Settlement is huge and has some lovely environmental storytelling. Then you have Irithyll, the High Wall, the Grand Archives. My favorite level in all Souls games, which nobody seems to talk about that much, is the Cathedral of the Deep. It's ingenious how it's essentially built around a single central bonfire that you loop back to. I find it also remarkable how close the whole construction feels like a "real" cathedral while still working brilliantly as a videogame level. BTW, for those of you who've played the network test, how does parrying work in Elden Ring? Is it Sekiro style parrying where you have to parry exactly as the attack connects with you or DS2/3 style parrying where your parry has a windup animation and you have to parry some time in advance?
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Feb 1, 2022 13:47
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Electromax posted:Isn't that literally how you reach the dragon level in DS3? I think the speculation is just resolved online much more quickly nowadays because the games are crazy popular, so instead of guesses on day 3 there are just guides and answers. Not quite. There's a prompt if you have the emote unlocked. And on a "normal" run (not killing the Dancer early) you would be backtracking, but it's a very distinctive spot with a great view of the peak and all those corpses doing the pose next to it. Bloodborne does have a place where you can use an emote unprompted to get something, though. You can Make Contact with the Brain of Mensis. You have to let it play out for a really long time to get a reward, too.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:20
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KonvexKonkav posted:BTW, for those of you who've played the network test, how does parrying work in Elden Ring? Is it Sekiro style parrying where you have to parry exactly as the attack connects with you or DS2/3 style parrying where your parry has a windup animation and you have to parry some time in advance? Reports and videos online indicate that ER parrying is very similar to DS3, complete with windup timing. The parry animation itself is lifted entirely from DS
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Feb 1, 2022 14:22
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If I wanted to pick up one of the older games to re-familiarize myself with the controls and menu navigation leading up to Elden Ring, based on what you guys know about the new game (I've gone dark), which one do you think would be the best one to kind of get warmed up? Because I suck at these games and want to suck less at this new one.
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Feb 1, 2022 15:36
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BiggerBoat posted:If I wanted to pick up one of the older games to re-familiarize myself with the controls and menu navigation leading up to Elden Ring, based on what you guys know about the new game (I've gone dark), which one do you think would be the best one to kind of get warmed up? Dark Souls 3 would be your best bet since it's using the same engine.
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Feb 1, 2022 15:45
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Magitek posted:Reports and videos online indicate that ER parrying is very similar to DS3, complete with windup timing. The parry animation itself is lifted entirely from DS drat this sucks. I hate DS3 parrying
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Feb 1, 2022 16:39
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BeanpolePeckerwood posted:Patiently waiting for the Elden Ring backlash to begin. the elden ring contrarians will rise from the swamps in due time. their anguished cries, oozing disgustingly “dark souls 2 had better combat” “the music is not nearly as memorable as DeS” “the open world feels bland compared to horizon forbidden dawn” and i will ignore them, so i can enjoy a cool game, so the world might be mended
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Feb 1, 2022 16:57
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i'm starting elden ring forwardlash. i hate the horse system where you need to feed it every 10 minutes or it dies. i hate how ghosts steal your money when you're not looking. i hate that the moonlight greatsword is in the game but it's in a museum as a prop and you can't use it.
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Feb 1, 2022 17:01
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punished milkman posted:the elden ring contrarians will rise from the swamps in due time. their anguished cries, oozing disgustingly Yuuuuuuuuup. Exhibit A: The open world is going to be pure trash. Unfounded comparisons abound. I trust Fromsoft to do it right. How long has ER been in proper development? How does that compare to the amount of time for their other stuff? Very curious about that but i have no clue.
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Feb 1, 2022 17:12
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punished milkman posted:“the music is not nearly as memorable as DeS” The only things I remember about Demon's Souls (original) soundtrack was that it sucked, and one or more of the boss themes just sounded like he was farting a bunch
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Feb 1, 2022 17:15
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enojy posted:The only things I remember about Demon's Souls (original) soundtrack was that it sucked, and one or more of the boss themes just sounded like he was farting a bunch Yeah but it had the original Maiden Astrea's theme which is like top 3 of all Souls tracks
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Feb 1, 2022 17:27
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DeS OST rules dude you're out of your mind. Souls of Mist (character creation) https://youtu.be/C7Xv0mJkHpw Maiden Astraea https://youtu.be/9piElENpvmM Tower Knight https://youtu.be/mIW7Ho4xMa4 One Who Craves Souls (bad ending) https://youtu.be/6ESqvGzdnvs
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Feb 1, 2022 17:39
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yeah i love the demons souls soundtrack. there’s a sad, ambient kind of vibe to the tracks that just hooks into me. the bombast of the later game soundtracks also rule, but DeS evokes that mysterious forlorn feeling so well
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Feb 1, 2022 18:05
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Big Bizness posted:DeS OST rules dude you're out of your mind. The main theme leitmotif is also burned into my skull. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AGDY4r951Zc https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BnZc5FAojRs I still remember when the first trailer released and the bahn bahn first started going with the dragon flying in and the narration telling you humanity only lasted 2 days in this universe.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:05
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Mailer posted:It's that, but it's also that they had to design games for people who have played souls games before. Resurrecting skeletons might have been an ohshit moment in DS1 but you just stood there waiting for them to pop up again in DS3. You see a bonewheel and you know how to react. No one will be shocked by a second gargoyle. Most importantly, barring some dick moves in DS2, everyone knows you can just run past everything. So the focus shifts onto the bosses. That's a pretty fair analysis of how the series has shifted, even though personally I love the quality and quantity of boss design in DS3 and Sekiro. For what it's worth, for better or worse from reading the big Game Informer preview, I got the impression Elden Ring will be very very dense with boss battles. While the author said some are less elaborate than others, it sounded like there was one at the bottom of just about every single cave.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:16
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This'll be the first Souls game I play on release instead of after the world has had plenty of time to write out boss guides and item tips and tricks and all the rest of it. I'm excited to have that different experience of not having a fallback ability to look up a boss after a couple frustrating tries. I'm also determined not to go into the game as an armchair game dev but instead to try to take the game for what it is and presume that I need to get better at the game, rather than writing about how the game needs to change to accommodate me.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:20
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if you just run past everything in your first play through of a dark souls game you are truly cursed
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Feb 1, 2022 18:22
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