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Regretful Humming posted:Throw me in as one of the people who thought we were gonna get Force-Ghost Luke in the last movie, haunting Kylo. 
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Jan 31, 2022 22:51
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I swear there was a plan to have Hayden be an Anakin/Vader force ghost with his appearance shifting back and forth.
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Jan 31, 2022 22:58
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TLJ could have been a good movie if: 1. The standout star of the force awakens wasn't sidelined to a support character for clearly racist reasons 2. The idiotic conflict between Poe and Holdo which made no sense didn't exist. 3. Uncle luke didn't all of a sudden decide to murder his nephew because of a bad dream <- absolute dog poo poo right here. 4. The following movie actually continued the themes established in TLJ, instead all of its bold choices of making the first order / resistance conflict the result of a galactic wealth class fueling the conflict and making money in the process, as well as the idea that anyone can be a jedi. G-III fucked around with this message at 23:22 on Jan 31, 2022 |
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Jan 31, 2022 23:20
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G-III posted:3. Uncle luke didn't all of a sudden decide to murder his nephew because of a bad dream <- absolute dog poo poo right here. They needed to cut in flashes of Han getting stabbed, Leia getting spaced, and the Republic blowing up in order to make sure the average movie-going public got it that Luke was seeing all the horrible poo poo that was going to happen at Ben's hands and he had a chance to prevent all of it, but doing so meant falling to the dark side himself and he pulled himself back from the brink albeit too late, thus ensuring his visions did indeed come to pass. I STILL don't get how people find this scene so hard to parse, but whatever. G-III posted:4. The following movie actually continued the themes established in TLJ, instead all of its bold choices of making the first order / resistance conflict the result of a galactic wealth class fueling the conflict and making money in the process, as well as the idea that anyone can be a jedi. Duel of the Fate was a whole different carnival of bad compared to Rise of Skywalker, but it would have at least been a better ending to the trilogy and I think it would have soothed a lot of mind burns caused by The Last Jedi. But to quote my main man Sheev, good old Star Wars fans, in their anger they... killed it.
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Jan 31, 2022 23:59
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John Boyega was already sidelined in his own movie when he became the silly quip man and then we learned he was a janitor, lost the lightsaber and ended up in a coma
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Feb 1, 2022 00:03
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CelticPredator posted:John Boyega was already sidelined in his own movie when he became the silly quip man and then we learned he was a janitor, lost the lightsaber and ended up in a coma Boyega and Isaacs got to re-enact the opening of ANH playing the parts of Threepio and R2D2. Those are the scenes they are mirroring at the start of the film
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Feb 1, 2022 01:10
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The new trilogy was bad because there was no coherent plan going in. Each director got free reign to drive the story as they saw fit and it suffers highly for it. The first two movies have a lot going on for them but without the narrative throughline they just end up going nowhere. Kazy fucked around with this message at 01:49 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 01:45
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There wasn't a coherent plan when making the original trilogy either, just a lot of strange and half-baked ideas that eventually got melted down into something less interesting but more filmable. https://screenrant.com/star-wars-luke-skywalker-sister-leia-retcon/2/  However The prequels clearly had more coherency going into them just by virtue of having a known starting point and known end point, and Star Wars fan expectations adjusted accordingly. And hell, audience expectations changed over the years too, with numerous adaptations of fantasy and scifi novel series taking up the pop culture landscape, each presenting fairly clear narrative throughlines and high thematic and visual coherency. To the point that the first reference point for Rey everyone leapt to was "YA Protagonist" because outside of those big YA novel adaptations Hollywood doesn't give a gently caress about young woman protagonists. And you know, on top of all that, having the films 3 years apart instead of 2 gives you 50% more time to think, react, and plan accordingly. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te98Uig3DbI Assepoester fucked around with this message at 02:26 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 02:20
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CelticPredator posted:The story wasn’t that though. JJ set it up. He didn't just fail. He hosed up so bad that it broke him. One moment of weakness and a horrible mistake he could never take back. And he simply couldn't deal with it. Honestly, it was probably the most realistic thing in the entire sequels. CelticPredator posted:John Boyega was already sidelined in his own movie when he became the silly quip man and then we learned he was a janitor, lost the lightsaber and ended up in a coma Boyega was done so loving dirty. In episode IX, Abrams didn't even let him reveal that he was force sensitive. He practically spent the whole movie making fun of his character. "Ray, I have something to tell you!" over and over. But Abrams never let him say the words. Megillah Gorilla fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 04:59
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Megillah Gorilla posted:He didn't just fail. He hosed up so bad that it broke him. The CCP didn’t want Jedi Finn running around as a main character
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Feb 1, 2022 05:17
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noted CCP asset; JJ Abrams
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Feb 1, 2022 05:26
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To be fair, Boyega has been a vocal defender of JJ, and doesn't seem to hold him responsible for the shitshow Finn's role became. The impression he gives is that the problems start with the TLJ production and JJ was left picking up the pieces both where it left the story, and the insane reaction to it. I got the feeling he was way more positive about working with Abrams than he was about working with Johnson. Agreed, the janitor reveal is not great, an ill conceived way to make him innocent of having done anything objectionable while a Stormtrooper but the moment he picks up the lightsabre and steps up to take on Kylo is far and away my favourite, most hype moment of the ST. Proper Neo beginning to believe poo poo, that should have led to better and brighter things instead of the garbage fire that followed for him.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:25
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Megillah Gorilla posted:He didn't just fail. He hosed up so bad that it broke him. Boyega got a little of his own back by basically ignoring the romance they were trying to foist on him with the black storm-trooper girl. Then she met her father/grandfather, Lando who was clearly leading up to trying to gently caress her.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:26
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Sentinel Red posted:To be fair, Boyega has been a vocal defender of JJ, and doesn't seem to hold him responsible for the shitshow Finn's role became. The impression he gives is that the problems start with the TLJ production and JJ was left picking up the pieces both where it left the story, and the insane reaction to it. I got the feeling he was way more positive about working with Abrams than he was about working with Johnson. Nothing about fixing TLJ requires Finn to constantly be running after a Rey that doesn't give a poo poo about him, nor does it require introducing a race appropriate love interest for him. Nothing about the narrative of I completely forgot the name of the movie while typing this Rise required it either. It didn't walk back anything from TLJ, it didn't address any of the concerns that people had, it doesn't even serve the interests of the film itself taken on it's own. Finn is a joke because everyone wrote him as a joke. If they didn't want that to be true, they could have written him differently. They didn't. People like Boyega, but Finn isn't a good character. He's the loving bumbling C3PO of the movie, he's not a Han or Luke. Nobody in the trilogies is particularly compelling except....maybe Ben? At least he gets an arc.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:48
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There will come a time when Disney revisits sequel trilogy land in TV format and hopefully Boyega gets a redemption tour under Filoni and Favreau.
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Feb 1, 2022 14:53
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G-III posted:TLJ could have been a good movie if: This is my number one reason I don’t like it. Finn was going to be one of the main characters and even a Jedi, but was suddenly made into a side character at best. It even would have fit in perfectly with Johnson’s whole “you don’t have to be some special chosen one” theme.
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Feb 1, 2022 15:00
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Mulva posted:They didn't. People like Boyega, but Finn isn't a good character. He's the loving bumbling C3PO of the movie,
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Feb 1, 2022 15:33
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I kinda got the feeling that JJ may have said to Boyega "look I'm sorry I just don't have time to give your character an arc when I'm fixing this mess of a project they've parachuted me in for, how about we just make it an in-joke that you keep trying to be relevant and keep getting shut out of the scene?"
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Feb 1, 2022 15:57
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Mulva posted:Nothing about fixing TLJ requires Finn to constantly be running after a Rey that doesn't give a poo poo about him Yeah, it was a whole thing in the second and third sequels where Rey would run off, giving no shits about Finn or Poe. Honestly, pretty much all her scenes were about her doing her own poo poo. Compare it to Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi. Luke, Leia and Han are apart for about 90% of both films. But those moments could not feel more different to what we see in the sequels. In the sequels, you don't get the impression they even really care about each other beyond plot mandated meet up and hug moments. "Yay, we're finally together! You're all my best friends in the galaxy!" */hugs/* "Flynn, Moe - I have to leave now, don't try to come with me." GATOS Y VATOS posted:This is my number one reason I don’t like it. Finn was going to be one of the main characters and even a Jedi, but was suddenly made into a side character at best. It even would have fit in perfectly with Johnson’s whole “you don’t have to be some special chosen one” theme. Finn was all set up to lead a rebellion in the First Order ranks. They even had him meet up with other deserters when they went to the death star ruins to show how he had inspired others. But nope, they were only there to lend Rey a loving boat. Rise Of Skywalker ended with Lando magically finding a million ships in the space of less than a day. It was stupid and contrived, even for Star Wars. We could have had the rebels fly to Exegol and fight off the penis star destroyers thinking they were all alone. Then suddenly see a thousand First Order ships appear out of hyperspace and everyone thinks they're doomed, sandwiched between vastly superior forces. But then the scene cuts to Finn on the bridge of one of the First Order SDs and, no, he's brought the entire goddamn enemy fleet over to his side and now there's going to be a star destroyer versus star destroyer space battle. 
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Feb 1, 2022 16:10
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Megillah Gorilla posted:But then the scene cuts to Finn on the bridge of one of the First Order SDs and, no, he's brought the entire goddamn enemy fleet over to his side and now there's going to be a star destroyer versus star destroyer space battle. I still feel a little cheated we didn't get to see more ex-Imperial equipment in New Republic colors.
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Feb 1, 2022 16:33
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Alchenar posted:I kinda got the feeling that JJ may have said to Boyega "look I'm sorry I just don't have time to give your character an arc when I'm fixing this mess of a project they've parachuted me in for, how about we just make it an in-joke that you keep trying to be relevant and keep getting shut out of the scene?"
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Feb 1, 2022 16:39
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I'm going to be honest I don't remember a single thing about TRoS.
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Feb 1, 2022 16:58
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Idk man it’s just weird to me that Boyega talked poo poo about TLJ and then you see TFA and TROS and it’s like, but they hosed with Finn there more? The moment he got slashed by Kylo I knew they weren’t gonna give him the lightsaber back. And if it was Johnson’s idea and his idea alone to do that then why didn’t he get it back in rise?
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Feb 1, 2022 17:10
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Its almost 100% due to Disney interference and RJ probably just went with it because he is an agreeable type of director and JJ also went along with it but probably griped to Boyega about it and was acted like he was on his side. Ultimately both directors wrote him as the same type of character.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:09
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nine-gear crow posted:They needed to cut in flashes of Han getting stabbed, Leia getting spaced, and the Republic blowing up in order to make sure the average movie-going public got it that Luke was seeing all the horrible poo poo that was going to happen at Ben's hands and he had a chance to prevent all of it, but doing so meant falling to the dark side himself and he pulled himself back from the brink albeit too late, thus ensuring his visions did indeed come to pass. I STILL don't get how people find this scene so hard to parse, but whatever. It's not hard to parse it's just lovely. The guy who threw down his lightsaber and was prepared to die in front of the emperor even if it meant all his friends were going to die so as not to succumb to the darkside would not have been swayed by a magic dream. It's totally out of character and just bad writing. The audience is expected to throw away what they've already learned about the character and believe that in THIS moment somehow he forgets everything he learned out of a moment of temporary weakness. G-III fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 18:26
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G-III posted:It's not hard to parse it's just lovely. The guy who threw down his lightsaber and was prepared to die in front of the emperor even if it meant all his friends were going to die so as not to succumb to the darkside would not have been swayed by a magic dream. It's totally out of character and just bad writing. The audience is expected to throw away what they've already learned about the character and believe that in THIS moment somehow he forgets everything he learned out of a moment of temporary weakness. Sorry it's poo poo and it deserves to be poo poo on. He also attacks his own father in a blind rage before calming down. Mastery over the dark side is not a "do it once and gain 100% immunity" it is a constant battle with yourself and your emotions. If he saw everything coming to pass with Ben as a force vision, why would he not hesitate for a BRIEF second? Its a great misunderstanding. He falters for a brief moment before his mastery comes back into play, but Ben awakes at that very moment.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:36
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G-III posted:It's not hard to parse it's just lovely. The guy who threw down his lightsaber and was prepared to die in front of the emperor even if it meant all his friends were going to die so as not to succumb to the darkside would not have been swayed by a magic dream. It's totally out of character and just bad writing. The audience is expected to throw away what they've already learned about the character and believe that in THIS moment somehow he forgets everything he learned out of a moment of temporary weakness. Luke, who has been nothing but blandly heroic, finally gets a personality.
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Feb 1, 2022 19:07
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G-III posted:It's not hard to parse it's just lovely. The guy who threw down his lightsaber and was prepared to die in front of the emperor even if it meant all his friends were going to die so as not to succumb to the darkside would not have been swayed by a magic dream. It's totally out of character and just bad writing. The audience is expected to throw away what they've already learned about the character and believe that in THIS moment somehow he forgets everything he learned out of a moment of temporary weakness. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFu2IFdjCaw Best thing about last jedi is hamill bringing back the whiny farmboy luke that has always been there underneath the bluster. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3lbWba7xjQ Assepoester fucked around with this message at 19:19 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 19:17
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Whilst I initially really disliked Luke's reaction after he probes Kylo's mind I've come to if not like it (because I still have the Luke I imagine in my head, or I've taken from the EU) at least accept the idea behind why his character would do it. For one thing it's something he says he literally does just on instinct, a subconscious thing where he turns on his lightsaber and instantly realises his mistake, he tells us that for a good 10 seconds or so this force vision shows the future, we hears lightsabers, screams etc so likely it's of his students being slaughtered by Kylo (so a lot of children I assume under his care) as well as the billions of people killed when he becomes Kylo Ren, so he pops out of all of that probably disorientated and boom ignites the saber as a reaction to the pure evil he felt, a natural Jedi reaction against evil but also any good persons reaction against what is essentially a genocide they witness and know they can prevent, but only for a split second. It's practically guaranteed if Kylo hadn't have woken up Luke would have done his utmost to do what he did for Vader and try to save him. Secondly Luke has never been perfect, he's still on a journey, he's founded his academy but he's very likely still learning as he goes, he's not some grand old wise master. We assume he would grow into one but that's all fan fiction, he never had proper Jedi training and learned the discipline someone like Yoda would have, it's practically all self taught. He never had those years of learning how to detach himself from others that all other Jedi went through seeing as they were trained that way from the ages of like 5 or something ridiculous so why wouldn't he be prone to lapses in judgement when it came to his emotions, his fear? Especially since he's likely scared about, or even sees what Kylo will do to Leia and Han, Luke's family, so again he lacks that detachment from them that he'd have had he been raised a Jedi. Lastly i've seen people say "but this is the guy who tried to save Vader yet he tries to kill Kylo straight away!?" Vader was a manipulated and corrupted person desperate for redemption even if he buried that as he fell further to the dark side, but that awakened once he became aware of Luke and saw his only chance to be free from Palpatine's grip on him, Luke sensed that, it was clear to him his Father perhaps had been a monster but unlike what others could see, he sensed through the force there was good in him. When Luke for that split second sees Kylo's secret side/ dark side/ potential for harm or what have you I imagine it's the opposite of Vader where he's seeing zero good in his head at that moment and it's again, the pure instinct to stop all of that evil and hurt before it happens that just takes over. Yoda wouldn't have reacted like that but Luke is no Yoda. Just Chamber fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Feb 1, 2022 |
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Feb 1, 2022 20:45
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TLJ was chock full of decent ideas that just were not executed well (and maybe those ideas couldn't be since we're dealing with a megabucks Hollywood action blockbuster franchise) and then it was further let down by TROS trying to forget that TLJ existed. What was a waste of a good cast. Those were very good actors left to twist in the wind. I think they will have to find a way to ignore the sequel trilogy altogether unless they just plan to have prequels and fill-ins for the rest of time. If I was a writer on a show like the Mandalorian or any other TV or film spinoff, I'd find having to tie back to the sequels to be incredibly frustrating and limiting.
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Feb 1, 2022 21:12
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I was not prepared for how emotionally impacted I would be seeing Din again. I really missed him a whole lot! This episode felt weird, because I was really appreciating the momentum of the Boba Fett finally getting some traction not just being this long boring laurence of arabia drama. But then, I went from a character I'm lukewarm to to a character I love a lot and really was scared that were never gonna get to see the end of his story because the world SUCKS. Holy macaroni what a good episode, and the idea of a heavy and unwieldy lightsaber gives room for a lot more physical acting, which is good for our faceless protag.
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Feb 1, 2022 21:39
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There are no sins The Rise of Skywalker commits that can't be forgiven except for how it did Finn and Rose dirty.
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Feb 1, 2022 21:43
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Bust Rodd posted:I was not prepared for how emotionally impacted I would be seeing Din again. I really missed him a whole lot! This episode felt weird, because I was really appreciating the momentum of the Boba Fett finally getting some traction not just being this long boring laurence of arabia drama. But then, I went from a character I'm lukewarm to to a character I love a lot and really was scared that were never gonna get to see the end of his story because the world SUCKS.  I’ve been pushing through BOBF because, ultimately, I want more Mando in my life, and I can’t even be mad that they threw in a stealth Season 2.5 ep of Mando, even if it breaks the narrative flow of the series. BOBF has been slow, had some truly embarrassing moments like the “cool biker teens,” and hasn’t really given me much to be excited about beyond Krrsantan showing up. Hopefully the final stretch of BOBF is a good time and has some great payoff, but this whole show really just made me miss Mando.
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Feb 1, 2022 22:25
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BodyMassageMachine posted:
Hint that Aphra might be making an appearance, and I will watch any amount of this show to get it.
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Feb 1, 2022 23:17
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GATOS Y VATOS posted:This is my number one reason I don’t like it. Finn was going to be one of the main characters and even a Jedi, but was suddenly made into a side character at best. It even would have fit in perfectly with Johnson’s whole “you don’t have to be some special chosen one” theme. Finn should've killed Snoke.
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Feb 2, 2022 00:36
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Robot Style posted:Finn should've killed Snoke. Ah yes, the Thanos "I don't even know who you are." scene, with Finn and Snoke
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Feb 2, 2022 01:51
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Kazy posted:I'm going to be honest I don't remember a single thing about TRoS. I remember Kylo/Ben kissing Rey and then immediately dying at which point I laughed out loud with the rest of those in the theater.
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Feb 2, 2022 03:01
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Kazy posted:I'm going to be honest I don't remember a single thing about TRoS. Somehow, Palpatine Returned
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Feb 2, 2022 03:20
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Rev. Bleech_ posted:Somehow, Palpatine Returned I love that line. You can actually pinpoint the exact moment Oscar Isaac's soul leaves his body and he decides he's just loving done with Star Wars forever.
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Feb 2, 2022 03:31
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BodyMassageMachine posted:
The teens aren't bikers, they're scooters. And the Palpatine thing could have been done better if they had a hologram of him instead od Snoke in the first one leaving everyone to wonder how, then it turns out he really is dead and the entire First Order has been blindly following one of his Operation Cinder robots for 30 years.
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