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Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Time continuity isn't a thing, yeah.

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StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

Hector Delgado posted:

For me, the companions went from "alright, not bad" straight to "shut the gently caress up Mirri" even with the option for their dialogue on minimum

Hang out with Bastian for awhile, you'll be looking back fondly on those good times with Mirri

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.
Bastian is a massive weenie and I keep forgetting that Mirri hates me taking bugs for some reason.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

QuantaStarFire posted:

I was extremely weirded out earlier this evening when I just randomly stumbled upon the quest that takes you to the original tutorial area. I had been under the impression that it had been removed, but nope, still exists. Kinda weird, too, since it teleports you to your alliance starting zone which may or may not be occupied by one of the enemy factions depending on how you've progressed.
That's the main quest, yeah. Only the tutorial aspect was removed. And yes it's weird that you can avoid it unintentionally for an incredibly long time.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

PTS is up, account wide achievements are fully account wide. Progress for counting achievements (kill x things, learn x things, do x dailies) is account wide. So the grindy achievements are much less grindy for people who play multiple characters.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

Hector Delgado posted:

For me, the companions went from "alright, not bad" straight to "shut the gently caress up Mirri" even with the option for their dialogue on minimum

Miri is sufferable. The dude is just oh my god, you are the least interesting character of all time, and actively hinders me when all I'm trying to do is my dailies (HOW CAN YOU BE A STRAIGHT EDGE???).

jeezus a vaguely human shaped chunk of driftwood would be better than him.


Can't wait for someone else.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

PTS is up, account wide achievements are fully account wide. Progress for counting achievements (kill x things, learn x things, do x dailies) is account wide. So the grindy achievements are much less grindy for people who play multiple characters.

I feel like I don't like this, although I'm new so maybe I'm missing something. Why would anyone want this? It seems like it takes a lot of the fun out of multiple characters if when you start up a new character they've already accomplished everything.

Also, I just hit 300. Is there really that much difference between a 300 character and like a 2000 character. There doesn't seem to many big leaps with the champion points to make you that much better. But again, I know very little.

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

1glitch0 posted:

I feel like I don't like this, although I'm new so maybe I'm missing something. Why would anyone want this? It seems like it takes a lot of the fun out of multiple characters if when you start up a new character they've already accomplished everything.
It is being quite badly received. There are multiple things people want, this implementation does one of them while obliterating the rest. Right now one time rewards are (skins, dyes, etc), but titles and the achievements aren't.

Some people want accountwide titles to be able to say "I did X" on an alt. A lot of people (including me) want accountwide achievements as a summary of what you've done, something over the top of the current character level achievements. Some people want the really grindy achievements to be account wide, especially the RNG ones, because getting that random monster trophy on an alt sucks.

None of those people really wanted this, although not everyone in those categories is annoyed by this extreme implementation. There is a fraction of the userbase who wants this because they don't view replayability for achievements as meaningful and want that finality.

I really don't know where this is going to go, because ZOS does not generally make significant changes from PTS to live, but this has some really strong pushback beyond the usual.

1glitch0 posted:

Also, I just hit 300. Is there really that much difference between a 300 character and like a 2000 character. There doesn't seem to many big leaps with the champion points to make you that much better. But again, I know very little.
Big leaps, no, but significant yes, though only up to about 1600. 300 is where you can get enough to be noticeable, 750-900 is around where you get most of the power, 1400-1600 is where you get max power out of the system. Past that it's just flexibility. Overall CP gives meaningful but not game changing bonuses.

Synthwave Crusader
Feb 13, 2011

Anything on the PTS is pretty much final, it's basically one giant out of town preview for the DLC.

Private Speech
Mar 30, 2011

I HAVE EVEN MORE WORTHLESS BEANIE BABIES IN MY COLLECTION THAN I HAVE WORTHLESS POSTS IN THE BEANIE BABY THREAD YET I STILL HAVE THE TEMERITY TO CRITICIZE OTHERS' COLLECTIONS

IF YOU SEE ME TALKING ABOUT BEANIE BABIES, PLEASE TELL ME TO

EAT. SHIT.


1glitch0 posted:

I feel like I don't like this, although I'm new so maybe I'm missing something. Why would anyone want this? It seems like it takes a lot of the fun out of multiple characters if when you start up a new character they've already accomplished everything.

Also, I just hit 300. Is there really that much difference between a 300 character and like a 2000 character. There doesn't seem to many big leaps with the champion points to make you that much better. But again, I know very little.

I've wanted it, the game is far too big anyway and it's nice to be able to say "yeah I've done all that" without caring about which character did it.

Much like champion points.

SplitSoul
Dec 31, 2000

Rapport grinding with companions. :suicide:

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


There's a pretty drat wide gulf between a 300cp and 1200cp character

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

SplitSoul posted:

Rapport grinding with companions. :suicide:
For Miri you can grind the fighter's guild quests. Find someone who can share the quests with you and it takes like 3 hours over 3 days. Never did Bastian, but you can do the same with Mages guild dailies.
Grinding them to level 20, on the other hand, does take forever.

valuum
Sep 3, 2003
ø
Rapport is dumb, but the levelling is ridiculous and feels more like they never play-tested or thought through.

g0del
Jan 9, 2001



Fun Shoe

valuum posted:

Rapport is dumb, but the levelling is ridiculous and feels more like they never play-tested or thought through.
From what I remember reading, when they were released on the test shard you could instantly level them up, and pick up free purple companion gear from a vendor. Which was great for testing how useful fully powered companions could be and trying out different builds, and useless for getting any feedback on the leveling/gearing process as it exists in the live version.

Trastion
Jul 24, 2003
The one and only.
My Bastion is level 20 but his Rapport is around the middle because I don't try to level it. I always forget the things he doesn't like and I don't put him away when I do them.

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem
I haven’t even bothered to get a companion yet, I never felt like I needed one. Am I missing out on anything cool?

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

It is being quite badly received. There are multiple things people want, this implementation does one of them while obliterating the rest. Right now one time rewards are (skins, dyes, etc), but titles and the achievements aren't.

Some people want accountwide titles to be able to say "I did X" on an alt. A lot of people (including me) want accountwide achievements as a summary of what you've done, something over the top of the current character level achievements. Some people want the really grindy achievements to be account wide, especially the RNG ones, because getting that random monster trophy on an alt sucks.

None of those people really wanted this, although not everyone in those categories is annoyed by this extreme implementation. There is a fraction of the userbase who wants this because they don't view replayability for achievements as meaningful and want that finality.

I really don't know where this is going to go, because ZOS does not generally make significant changes from PTS to live, but this has some really strong pushback beyond the usual.

Big leaps, no, but significant yes, though only up to about 1600. 300 is where you can get enough to be noticeable, 750-900 is around where you get most of the power, 1400-1600 is where you get max power out of the system. Past that it's just flexibility. Overall CP gives meaningful but not game changing bonuses.

Good to know. Also I might not be using my champion points correct. My main character is just a hodgepodge of whatever I think is good. My alt is the one where I'm actually following a guide and trying to optimize. But I still haven't gotten to any of the dlc or anything so everything I'm doing is still basic.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


remigious posted:

I haven’t even bothered to get a companion yet, I never felt like I needed one. Am I missing out on anything cool?

You're missing out on...5-8k dps? DPS you can't bring into trials and dungeons?

remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

Potato Salad posted:

You're missing out on...5-8k dps? DPS you can't bring into trials and dungeons?

Good to know! I’m at like 900 ish cp so I never felt like I needed any extra help, but I may as well stop being lazy and recruit someone!

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

remigious posted:

I haven’t even bothered to get a companion yet, I never felt like I needed one. Am I missing out on anything cool?

Getting to play fashion Barbie with another character , setting up coordinating outfits, and mounts, the usual.

DoriDori240
Aug 1, 2003

Needs more Anna Ohura

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

It is being quite badly received. There are multiple things people want, this implementation does one of them while obliterating the rest. Right now one time rewards are (skins, dyes, etc), but titles and the achievements aren't.

Some people want accountwide titles to be able to say "I did X" on an alt. A lot of people (including me) want accountwide achievements as a summary of what you've done, something over the top of the current character level achievements. Some people want the really grindy achievements to be account wide, especially the RNG ones, because getting that random monster trophy on an alt sucks.

None of those people really wanted this, although not everyone in those categories is annoyed by this extreme implementation. There is a fraction of the userbase who wants this because they don't view replayability for achievements as meaningful and want that finality.

The account-wide achievement system is such a amateurish mess, it boggles my mind that they thought this was a good idea, and that is saying something for Zenimax. I am all for things like the creature slayer achievements, or "do X number of Y quests" yeah share that poo poo 100 percent. I absolutely disagree that solo arena, 4-person dungeon/arenas, and trial achievements/titles should be account wide. Same goes for PVP titles. My main is my main, but I am fine that I don't have Dro'mathra Destroyer on that character, because I have it on three others. If I want to push clears on my DPS rather than supports, I have a reason to do so. Same for solo arenas. Flawless Conqueror and Spirit Slayer are things to get per character, as it gives you a reason to replay the content. I am just completely baffled that they think this is a good idea.

If you can stomach the stupidity of the official forums, the longest thread in there is on this topic, and the reaction is fairly mixed and increasingly negative. I think people like the general idea of shared progress on one account, but this implementation basically kills 6 years of individual character progression for me and it sucks. Like Scy said, I am sure they have the code ready and this is going to happen (likely as a buggy mess) and basically no one will be happy (except for those few people that essentially see no point in revisiting content that they have already done)

QuantaStarFire
May 18, 2006


Grimey Drawer
It's kind of weird to make achievements account-wide and then carve out exceptions for Skyshards and Lorebooks. I feel like those are the kinds of things you want to make account-wide before titles and poo poo.

kirbysuperstar
Nov 11, 2012

Let the fools who stand before us be destroyed by the power you and I possess.

QuantaStarFire posted:

It's kind of weird to make achievements account-wide and then carve out exceptions for Skyshards and Lorebooks. I feel like those are the kinds of things you want to make account-wide before titles and poo poo.

The skyshards is probably because you buy completed skyshard zones for other characters with crowns

QuantaStarFire
May 18, 2006


Grimey Drawer

kirbysuperstar posted:

The skyshards is probably because you buy completed skyshard zones for other characters with crowns

lol. lmao. Seriously? They do this? Nah, I think I'll stick to the world tour.

Is there a way to find specific types of reagents out in the wilderness? I find alchemy/enchanting/provision dailies kind of suck because they ask you to go gather X ingredient, and it seems RNG if you'll ever actually find what you need. Meanwhile, the other crafts' materials are piss easy to locate because you're only ever dealing with one type of node with one type of material and they appear in specific places. It just seems bizarre to design half your crafts one way and then take a completely different direction with the others that's way worse. :psyduck:

Peaceful Anarchy
Sep 18, 2005
sXe
I am the math man.

QuantaStarFire posted:

Is there a way to find specific types of reagents out in the wilderness? I find alchemy/enchanting/provision dailies kind of suck because they ask you to go gather X ingredient, and it seems RNG if you'll ever actually find what you need.
Other than the two water ones (Nirnroot and Water Hyacinth) no. Pretty sure any flower node can give any flower. The key to them is that they're hard at the beginning, but they give back more than they take, so eventually you get enough to not need to search things out.

By far the best way is to invest some gold in getting a small reserve from guild traders to start. Once you get going, most mats aren't an issue. I haven't had a provisioning mat issue since my first week. Oko is the only enchanting mat I've had to buy, because I slack on the surveys. For alchemy it took longer, but I haven't had to buy anything except Mudcrab Chitin in a long long time. (I've given up on the Violet Coprinus master writ once my supply finally ran out, that thing is almost as expensive as cornflower no). Hirelings help with enchanting and Provisioning.

For alchemy it's worthwhile to buy a stack of the ingredients to start you off. I would also recommend buying a stack of Fleshfly Larva and a stack of stinkhorn/Luminous Russula/Emetic Russula (whichever is cheapest) and power leveling up to 20 so you don't have a Cornflower writ.

For Provisioning, buy or steal a bunch of apples and buy some fish, make apple baked fist to level to 50, then you can make the three drinks and three foods and never worry about other things.

The provisioner hireling can get you some mats regularly. The return in ingredients on provisioning writs is super high, so you'll make back what you need really quick.

For enchanting the enchanter merchant sells the blue runes you need. The only other ones you need are oko, makko, deni and ta. The latter three are cheap and oko is 100-120, which is still cost effective for the writ. Buy some stacks, get the hireling and go.

As you get surveys you'll be able to get runes and alchemy ingredients from those.

1glitch0
Sep 4, 2018

I DON'T GIVE A CRAP WHAT SHE BELIEVES THE HARRY POTTER BOOKS CHANGED MY LIFE #HUFFLEPUFF

Peaceful Anarchy posted:

Other than the two water ones (Nirnroot and Water Hyacinth) no. Pretty sure any flower node can give any flower. The key to them is that they're hard at the beginning, but they give back more than they take, so eventually you get enough to not need to search things out.

By far the best way is to invest some gold in getting a small reserve from guild traders to start. Once you get going, most mats aren't an issue. I haven't had a provisioning mat issue since my first week. Oko is the only enchanting mat I've had to buy, because I slack on the surveys. For alchemy it took longer, but I haven't had to buy anything except Mudcrab Chitin in a long long time. (I've given up on the Violet Coprinus master writ once my supply finally ran out, that thing is almost as expensive as cornflower no). Hirelings help with enchanting and Provisioning.

For alchemy it's worthwhile to buy a stack of the ingredients to start you off. I would also recommend buying a stack of Fleshfly Larva and a stack of stinkhorn/Luminous Russula/Emetic Russula (whichever is cheapest) and power leveling up to 20 so you don't have a Cornflower writ.

For Provisioning, buy or steal a bunch of apples and buy some fish, make apple baked fist to level to 50, then you can make the three drinks and three foods and never worry about other things.

The provisioner hireling can get you some mats regularly. The return in ingredients on provisioning writs is super high, so you'll make back what you need really quick.

For enchanting the enchanter merchant sells the blue runes you need. The only other ones you need are oko, makko, deni and ta. The latter three are cheap and oko is 100-120, which is still cost effective for the writ. Buy some stacks, get the hireling and go.

As you get surveys you'll be able to get runes and alchemy ingredients from those.

I'm really enjoying the stories my hirelings tell me. An unexpected treat.

Diephoon
Aug 24, 2003

LOL

Nap Ghost

Doctor Zero posted:

Miri is sufferable. The dude is just oh my god, you are the least interesting character of all time, and actively hinders me when all I'm trying to do is my dailies (HOW CAN YOU BE A STRAIGHT EDGE???).

jeezus a vaguely human shaped chunk of driftwood would be better than him.


Can't wait for someone else.

Remains-Silent would be the perfect companion.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Diephoon posted:

Remains-Silent would be the perfect companion.

:eyepop: :prepop: :gowron:




(actually I do like Miri)

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Diephoon posted:

Remains-Silent would be the perfect companion.

Thread title.

Trastion
Jul 24, 2003
The one and only.

QuantaStarFire posted:

lol. lmao. Seriously? They do this? Nah, I think I'll stick to the world tour.

Is there a way to find specific types of reagents out in the wilderness? I find alchemy/enchanting/provision dailies kind of suck because they ask you to go gather X ingredient, and it seems RNG if you'll ever actually find what you need. Meanwhile, the other crafts' materials are piss easy to locate because you're only ever dealing with one type of node with one type of material and they appear in specific places. It just seems bizarre to design half your crafts one way and then take a completely different direction with the others that's way worse. :psyduck:

Peaceful Anarchy already said it great but one thing you might not notice is that the nodes will give you whatever is equal to what your skill is. If you need Ancestor Silk because your skill is that high that is what the node drops. If your newbie friend sees the same node they will get (and see) whatever their skill level is.

When you are still leveling up your skills before you sink a skill point into a new stage of Woodworking or whatever make sure you already have some of the next type of wood. Otherwise when you switch you will have to gather before you can complete the next few dailies.

You can keep getting exp without leveling up the skill.

Nerd Of Prey
Aug 10, 2002


Unless this has changed, resource nodes are randomly based on your skill points in the crafting line OR your character level, so if you have a level 50 character with no points sunk into crafting, you get a mix of level 50 and level 1 materials, so running around the world you'll see for example, both Jute and Ancestor Silk plants, but nothing in between. Or if you have been doing some crafting on a low-level alt you can get an interesting combo of mid-tier stuff. The mid-tier things can be hardest to find, but you can kind of engineer it by doing your harvesting on a character whose level or skill is right at that point.

the panacea
May 10, 2008

:10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux:
Account wide achievements are nice at first glance but it'll really bite off a large chunk of the active raiding population.

Trastion
Jul 24, 2003
The one and only.

Nerd Of Prey posted:

Unless this has changed, resource nodes are randomly based on your skill points in the crafting line OR your character level, so if you have a level 50 character with no points sunk into crafting, you get a mix of level 50 and level 1 materials, so running around the world you'll see for example, both Jute and Ancestor Silk plants, but nothing in between. Or if you have been doing some crafting on a low-level alt you can get an interesting combo of mid-tier stuff. The mid-tier things can be hardest to find, but you can kind of engineer it by doing your harvesting on a character whose level or skill is right at that point.

When I have done my alts crafting (on PS4/5) I never see anything higher than the level the skill is on. I always leave the skill on the lowest skill point level until its maxed at 50 then I sink skill points into it. On my main I only get the highest level stuff because it is maxed out on skill and cp1000+.

There may be a difference between Console and PC though.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


the panacea posted:

Account wide achievements are nice at first glance but it'll really bite off a large chunk of the active raiding population.

oof

the panacea
May 10, 2008

:10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux::10bux:
I mean who knows.

Nefas has actually a good video on it.

https://youtu.be/McXPumfoPYQ

TLDR: the reward system is lacking in general and has gotten worse over the years.

QuantaStarFire
May 18, 2006


Grimey Drawer
So the dungeon experience in this game is kinda poo poo.

People complain about FFXIV's speed clears, but like, it's two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss, and you actually get to spend time taking in the environment and poo poo.

Here though? I talk to a quest NPC in the dungeon and before I'm done with dialogue, my entire group has cleared the dungeon. It's like ESO looked at OG Praetorium in XIV and went "We can do worse; we can make *every* dungeon like that."

Absolute loving dogshit.

ASenileAnimal
Dec 21, 2017

ive been playing on and off for about 2 years and i still barely have any idea whats going on storywise in any of the dungeons. maybe try joining a guild and get a group together because the dungeon finder sucks rear end. especially if youre a dps and you have to wait like 40 minutes.

Doctor Zero
Sep 21, 2002

Would you like a jelly baby?
It's been in my pocket through 4 regenerations,
but it's still good.

QuantaStarFire posted:

So the dungeon experience in this game is kinda poo poo.

People complain about FFXIV's speed clears, but like, it's two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss, and you actually get to spend time taking in the environment and poo poo.

Here though? I talk to a quest NPC in the dungeon and before I'm done with dialogue, my entire group has cleared the dungeon. It's like ESO looked at OG Praetorium in XIV and went "We can do worse; we can make *every* dungeon like that."

Absolute loving dogshit.

To be fair, it's not the game's fault, it's the people who have cleared it 6 million times and don't give a poo poo if someone hasn't done it before.

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remigious
May 13, 2009

Destruction comes inevitably :rip:

Hell Gem

QuantaStarFire posted:

So the dungeon experience in this game is kinda poo poo.

People complain about FFXIV's speed clears, but like, it's two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss -> two packs -> boss, and you actually get to spend time taking in the environment and poo poo.

Here though? I talk to a quest NPC in the dungeon and before I'm done with dialogue, my entire group has cleared the dungeon. It's like ESO looked at OG Praetorium in XIV and went "We can do worse; we can make *every* dungeon like that."

Absolute loving dogshit.

That does suck. I always wait when someone says in chat that they have the quest, but I know some people just don’t give a poo poo.

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