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I haven't played Kingdom Death but have watched some campaign play through vids while I paint. It's an interesting concept but the campaign is super grindy and involves a lot of random outcomes. It is basically an MMO approach to boardgaming. Kill monster for loot drop, craft items, kill same monster again because you didn't get the materials you needed. Fight tougher monster or get screwed by bad draws, lose entire party and their gear, repeat lower level monster hunts to build back up. It seems to lack a fail forwards approach, and risk taking is probably a bad idea. Some people will probably the harshness of it, others don't have time for it. I get the impression most of the die hard fans end up playing it mostly solo, because you are going to need a dedicated and like-minded group to stick through a long campaign. Then there is the art direction and actual narrative, which is infamous and threadworthy. Gloomhaven on the other hand I have played almost all of the way through. I joined a group a couple of sessions in pre-covid and we carried on playing the campaign on TTS throughout. It is huge and each scenario feels different. There is some randomness but it always feels fair. There is a huge amount of tactical choice and character customisation. And you can play it all in public without being put on a register.
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Feb 2, 2022 14:16
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Ugleb posted:It seems to lack a fail forwards approach, and risk taking is probably a bad idea. Some people will probably the harshness of it, others don't have time for it. I have a nasty suspicion the game is "hard" as a feature, not as merely bad design. So the player base can get off on imagining their characters being beaten up and raped.
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Feb 2, 2022 15:48
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neonchameleon posted:What confuses me about these jackasses is why they never say "The Hugo Boss uniforms look spiffy. And I hate to lose but I cheer when Nazis lose - so it doesn't feel bad if I lose while playing the Nazi side. Which makes the game more fun for me." Because they don't believe that second part
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Feb 2, 2022 16:05
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Loxbourne posted:I have a nasty suspicion the game is "hard" as a feature, not as merely bad design. So the player base can get off on imagining their characters being beaten up and raped. Jesus Christ dude
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Feb 2, 2022 16:11
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Considering that there's a bunch of sexual violence at least implied in the minis and art, they've got a point. There was a thread for the game 5 years ago Ego Trip fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Feb 2, 2022 |
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Feb 2, 2022 16:14
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Asphyxious posted:Jesus Christ dude The game is neither subtle nor respectful about the treatment of women in its models.
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Feb 2, 2022 16:22
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Isn't there a table or a card or an event or something in which female characters can get pregnant?
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Feb 2, 2022 16:33
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kingdom death could be great if its miniatures, rules and fans were completely different
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Feb 2, 2022 16:45
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The cardinal sin of KD’s gameplay is the game is actively geared to gently caress you over. There’s nothing inherently wrong with a hard game, but much of KD is just “you rolled a 6 lol u hosed”. The intersection of difficulty, unmitigated randomness, and a campaign/progression system is an antiquated design and makes it a hard sell as a game. Sure you could call it an experience generator, but then that immediately starts creeping into the problematic material. To summarize: Nebalebadingdong posted:kingdom death could be great if its miniatures, rules and fans were completely different
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Feb 2, 2022 16:49
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sasha_d3ath posted:Isn't there a table or a card or an event or something in which female characters can get pregnant? The campaign is set over years and has your starting survivors (I think that's the term) establishing a settlement. Your characters have kids who when they reach maturity become new playable characters. The original characters retire/die of old age if I remember right, but are more likely not to make it that far. Pregnant characters have to miss a game or so while they are off having kids.
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Feb 2, 2022 17:07
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Asphyxious posted:Jesus Christ dude That isn't uncommon in porn "games"
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Feb 2, 2022 17:33
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Asphyxious posted:Jesus Christ dude The miniatures designers go out of their way to denigrate women at virtually every turn, it is beyond cheesecake into active, vicious, misogyny. The theme is sexual violence presented as soft core miniature porn. Edit: for clarity lenoon fucked around with this message at 18:24 on Feb 2, 2022 |
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Feb 2, 2022 18:20
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Ugleb posted:The campaign is set over years and has your starting survivors (I think that's the term) establishing a settlement. Your characters have kids who when they reach maturity become new playable characters. The original characters retire/die of old age if I remember right, but are more likely not to make it that far. Not anywhere close to as bad as I thought this game mechanic was going to end up sounding at the start of the description and for that, I'm actually pleasantly surprised.
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Feb 2, 2022 18:28
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To the extent that roguelike game experiences - with their punishing RNG events and the possibility of a total wipeout sending you all the way back to the start - are fun for a certain kind of computer gamer, it's because the failure state is followed by clicking the "play again?" button and getting right back into the game (only a little wiser, this time). It's a much, much harder sell when you've put in tens of hours across multiple sessions with a bunch of friends, only to have it all come crashing down because you drew a particularly nasty event card and then rolled two sixes in a row. Even if you stripped out all of the nasty misogynistic elements and replaced them with, I dunno, generic fantasy stuff, KDM would still have almost nothing to recommend itself as a long-run campaign game, especially compared to things like Pandemic Year Zero and Gloomhaven.
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Feb 2, 2022 18:37
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Some of the monsters (some) are cool and I'd like to use them in D&D or whatever, but not at the price they go for, and certainly not straight from the company. Because literally every female mini has something gross about it. I'm going through the wiki right now and the mildest examples are still really egregious because they have male counterparts that are wearing pants, aren't pregnant, etc. And as near as I can tell the anatomically correct monsters (that aren't made from disembodied woman parts) are all male, which has...implications. Edit: why is there a kingdom death sexy santa clause?!
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Feb 2, 2022 20:05
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Blue Footed Booby posted:And as near as I can tell the anatomically correct monsters (that aren't made from disembodied woman parts) are all male, which has...implications.
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Feb 2, 2022 20:34
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Kingdom Death is just "what if Dark Souls, but rapey?"
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Feb 2, 2022 20:47
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"Okay guys, we wanna stand out from the crowd. Get a really niche market going by selling products that people can't get elsewhere. We'll do that by primarily focusing on sexual violence against women." The worst part is that it worked. They are still in business after how many years now, because people are loving gross.
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Feb 2, 2022 20:53
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Fashionable Jorts posted:"Okay guys, we wanna stand out from the crowd. Get a really niche market going by selling products that people can't get elsewhere. We'll do that by primarily focusing on sexual violence against women." I've definitely been approached multiple times online to customize models I sell to have big anime titties
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Feb 2, 2022 21:30
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Terrible Opinions posted:The monster vaginas are all in expansion packs that require extra purchases. Which has different, still bad, implications. Curiosity is killing me but I've wasted enough time on this poo poo.
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Feb 2, 2022 21:54
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I know someone so obsessed with Kingdom Death that they proposed in front of the booth at Gencon. No, I don’t get it either.
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Feb 3, 2022 00:16
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"Darling, it would make me the happiest man on earth if you would be my Wet Nurse."
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Feb 3, 2022 06:31
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Silhouette posted:Kingdom Death is just "what if Dark Souls, but rapey?" Well, Dark Souls is fair, and you can learn to game the system. KD is notoriously unfair and out to screw you.
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Feb 3, 2022 08:08
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Mr. Sunshine posted:"Darling, it would make me the happiest man on earth if you would be my Wet Nurse." This post was unpleasant to read 
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Feb 3, 2022 08:20
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Well, thank you a for reminding me that for all the problems with WH40K, there is worse out there.
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Feb 3, 2022 09:26
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Hedningen posted:I know someone so obsessed with Kingdom Death that they proposed in front of the booth at Gencon. To quote The Kids These Days: "thats cringe bro"
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Feb 3, 2022 09:32
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Asphyxious posted:Jesus Christ dude Unfortunately their statement tracks, because Silhouette posted:Kingdom Death is just "what if Dark Souls, but rapey?" but specifically cargo culting dark souls without actually understanding its appeal or aesthetics hence the reliance on sexual violence. That and that's the designer's fetish.
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Feb 3, 2022 10:13
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Blue Footed Booby posted:Some of the monsters (some) are cool and I'd like to use them in D&D or whatever, but not at the price they go for, and certainly not straight from the company. Because literally every female mini has something gross about it. I'm going through the wiki right now and the mildest examples are still really egregious because they have male counterparts that are wearing pants, aren't pregnant, etc. I can't recall the name of it and I'm pretty sure it is way back in this thread somewhere, but there is a penis monster (made of dongs) with several nude pregnant women kneeling around it. And I'm pretty sure they are attached by umbilical cords. So, yeah.
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Feb 3, 2022 12:32
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Ugleb posted:I can't recall the name of it and I'm pretty sure it is way back in this thread somewhere, but there is a penis monster (made of dongs) with several nude pregnant women kneeling around it. And I'm pretty sure they are attached by umbilical cords. There's actually a couple of those.
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Feb 3, 2022 14:50
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Blue Footed Booby posted:There's actually a couple of those. ...of course there is.
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Feb 3, 2022 15:51
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Samovar posted:Well, thank you a for reminding me that for all the problems with WH40K, there is worse out there. I know they're probably just doing it to make it more marketable and profitable, but it's kinda nice to see some of 40ks gross stuff going away. Specifically with the Sisters, the repentia aren't centrefold babes anymore, they're loving jacked and exude an aura of "these women will destroy you" instead of being titillating. The penitent engines aren't weird anymore. That being said they still have boob plate and battle heels, but I'll take what I can get.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:27
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Ugleb posted:I can't recall the name of it and I'm pretty sure it is way back in this thread somewhere, but there is a penis monster (made of dongs) with several nude pregnant women kneeling around it. And I'm pretty sure they are attached by umbilical cords. iirc that one's more made of boobs. the thing made of dongs is the skirt of one of the transphobic satan twins.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:52
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Charming.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:54
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Come on now, would them being egalitarian in sexual violence really make it any more reasonable? Some mpreg dudes waddling besides a penis monster doesn't sound like it would make much difference. But along those lines, wouldn't we have to hold artists like HR Geiger to the same standard?
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Feb 3, 2022 17:13
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Panfilo posted:But along those lines, wouldn't we have to hold artists like HR Geiger to the same standard? He threw in a bunch of bio-mechanical aspects into his work, which I feel puts it in a distinctly different category - and most of his work, if there were any fuckin', the fucker and the fuckee were usually the same being. This isn't the case with the enslaved figures beside the dick-lions and booby-monsters. The sexual horror of Geiger's work doesn't seem so... Victimising? Or exploiting the position of the victim, unlike the Kingdom Death figures.
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Feb 3, 2022 17:36
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I see. Not trying to rationalize the overpriced creepy dick monster figurines or anything. But the closest association I got was Geigers xenomorph and the sexual and grotesque imagery associated with it.
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Feb 3, 2022 18:15
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LashLightning posted:The sexual horror of Geiger's work doesn't seem so... Victimising? Or exploiting the position of the victim, unlike the Kingdom Death figures. Yeah, Geiger's stuff often has everyone relatively on the same level (to a point). KD is entirely scantily clad women undergoing violence. Their few non-monster male models are empowered and idealized. Panfilo posted:I see. Not trying to rationalize the overpriced creepy dick monster figurines or anything. But the closest association I got was Geigers xenomorph and the sexual and grotesque imagery associated with it. If I remember correctly, the xenomorph was kinda designed to make dudes uncomfortable, and force them to feel the same sort of powerlessness that women often do in movies
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Feb 3, 2022 18:25
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Fashionable Jorts posted:If I remember correctly, the xenomorph was kinda designed to make dudes uncomfortable, and force them to feel the same sort of powerlessness that women often do in movies Isn't a central theme of the movies "pregnancy is awful?"
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Feb 3, 2022 18:37
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Giger was art, KD is a manifesto that should interest the police.
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Feb 3, 2022 18:39
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Cessna posted:Isn't a central theme of the movies "pregnancy is awful?" Also surprised that there are still people who don't know about Cursed City for Perverts.
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Feb 3, 2022 18:48
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