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ImpAtom posted:The most serious mainline game is probably 13 and they veered incredibly hard in the opposite direction for its sequels and 13 *still* has a scene where a man with a chocobo in his afro gets his kickin' rad new car and then prepares to shoot himself in the face.
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Feb 3, 2022 13:56
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Gaius Marius posted:
lol
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Feb 3, 2022 14:31
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ff6 is an ensemble cast and life goes on
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Feb 3, 2022 14:46
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Harrow posted:VideoGames also recently played FF7R, with no previous Final Fantasy experience at all, and loved it so much that it made him want to play JRPGs, a genre he had never enjoyed before. He went on to stream FF7 and now he's streaming FF8 and is well on his way to becoming a professional Triple Triad player. Do you have a link to the streams?
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Feb 3, 2022 15:18
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Final Fantasy has always had wildly shifting tones from scene to scene, with 7 probably having the most whiplash. It legit goes from meeting Aerith to Wall Market guy in dress shenanigans to 9/11 times a hundred to climbing a million stairs to President Shinra bloodily skewered on a katana to a motorcycle chase scene, all in the span of MAYBE an hour. 7's the big example, but most of them have this too. Especially 9 and 10, with the former's cartoony chibi artstyle contrasted with hilariously dark actual plot content, and the latter having weird comic relief from Wakka that even in-universe is tone-deaf and offensive sometimes. This was less an issue in the NES games because they barely had the ability to express ONE tone, let alone several in quick succession. In terms of tonal consistency the winners might be 5 and its saturday morning adventure cartoon vibe, and 8 with its unrelenting surreal weirdness being inflicted on attempted teenage angst. e: and this weird tonal shifting isn't a BAD thing really, the contrasts add texture and gives things a weird sorta feeling of realness because real life never has a consistent tone either
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Feb 3, 2022 16:08
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Alitur posted:Do you have a link to the streams? I think the VODs for his FF7R playthrough are gone now, but he streams at twitch.tv/videogamessa and you can definitely find the FF8 VODs there.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:32
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Asterite34 posted:Final Fantasy has always had wildly shifting tones from scene to scene, with 7 probably having the most whiplash. It legit goes from meeting Aerith to Wall Market guy in dress shenanigans to 9/11 times a hundred to climbing a million stairs to President Shinra bloodily skewered on a katana to a motorcycle chase scene, all in the span of MAYBE an hour. In my opinion 2 wins the consistency medal. If I remember right I don't think any portion of that game is presented as anything other than constant sorrow, struggle, and tragedy (except maybe when you talk to beavers? I can't remember much about that part)
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Feb 3, 2022 16:39
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pretty soft girl posted:In my opinion 2 wins the consistency medal. If I remember right I don't think any portion of that game is presented as anything other than constant sorrow, struggle, and tragedy (except maybe when you talk to beavers? I can't remember much about that part) "Hey you got an airship! Remember all those towns you visited? Haha my tornado GG'd them gently caress you."
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Feb 3, 2022 17:27
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Interesting thing about 2's cut music tracks. This theme is speculated to be like FF1's shop theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L0dmWqU5K9o This dungeon theme was recycled into 6's Jidoor mansion. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=po0iQkspISw The airship theme was cut, probably for being too uplifting. By the time you get the airship half the world gets merked and there are no new places to go, because the game hates you. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PewVCFyqNnA
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Feb 3, 2022 17:41
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pretty soft girl posted:In my opinion 2 wins the consistency medal. If I remember right I don't think any portion of that game is presented as anything other than constant sorrow, struggle, and tragedy (except maybe when you talk to beavers? I can't remember much about that part) Leila and Paul were pretty cool. Not exactly comedy characters but they were cool and likeable. Too bad Leila is a temporary character and Paul isn't playable. Paul should've been playable.
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Feb 3, 2022 17:50
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Leila is the inspiration for my NIN glam in FF14. It’s pretty cool, she’s got kind of a weird look for a pirate queen
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Feb 3, 2022 17:54
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Elephant Ambush posted:Leila and Paul were pretty cool. Not exactly comedy characters but they were cool and likeable. Too bad Leila is a temporary character and Paul isn't playable. Paul should've been playable. Honestly I hope ff2 gets the stranger of paradise treatment some day, it's by far my favorite setting/cast/storyline/vibe but it's such a slog to get through and the only way to fix it is to completely replace the gameplay systems
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Feb 3, 2022 18:30
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Honestly, "2 shields/back row for casters" and "don't wear armor in most cases" were really the only 2 bits of advice I adhered to with any consistency, and I had no trouble with 2PR. I don't know if they improved/fixed how stats displayed with equipment in the PR vs the original but it all seemed pretty straightforward for the most part!
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Feb 3, 2022 19:03
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Snow Cone Capone posted:Honestly, "2 shields/back row for casters" and "don't wear armor in most cases" were really the only 2 bits of advice I adhered to with any consistency, and I had no trouble with 2PR. The changes in most of the ports take out anything that makes the gameplay interesting, same problem with most ports of 1 2NES is a brutal slog of a game but I have to admit there wasn't a single combat encounter I didn't have to put actual thought into
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Feb 3, 2022 19:18
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pretty soft girl posted:Honestly I hope ff2 gets the stranger of paradise treatment some day, it's by far my favorite setting/cast/storyline/vibe but it's such a slog to get through and the only way to fix it is to completely replace the gameplay systems The encounter rate and dungeon design would also have to be modernized. My only playthrough of FF2 was the GBA version on an emulator so that I could abuse save states and have a 4x speed up button. Even with those features all the dungeons were huge annoying slogs and the last 1/3 to 1/4 of the game was such a slog that I never would have finished it if I had to play it at normal speed. After I finished it I vowed to never play it again unless the whole thing was overhauled. They especially need to get rid of all those rooms in dungeons where there are multiple doors and only one of them takes you to the next area and the rest are just extra encounters to waste your time and resources.
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Feb 3, 2022 19:18
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Elephant Ambush posted:The encounter rate and dungeon design would also have to be modernized. My only playthrough of FF2 was the GBA version on an emulator so that I could abuse save states and have a 4x speed up button. Even with those features all the dungeons were huge annoying slogs and the last 1/3 to 1/4 of the game was such a slog that I never would have finished it if I had to play it at normal speed. After I finished it I vowed to never play it again unless the whole thing was overhauled. I could really see FF2 being reinvented as a tactics style game and being much better off for it since it could dump all the dungeon/overworld design problems too. the setting is more akin to what you'd see in FFT or Ogre Battle than a mainline FF so I think it'd be a natural fit
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Feb 3, 2022 19:27
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ImpAtom posted:Uh, I don't know if you remember FF7 but right after Sector 7 you have the climb up the Shiny Golden Wire Of Hope followed by the Shinra building which is 95% silly minigames and puzzles and weird jokes. Right after Sector 7 is Aerith's entire backstory which is both serious and emotional, the first time we hear her theme, and the climbing the wire is part of an epic "we're taking down the main villain" segment so again pretty serious. quote:Also this is true of basically every Final Fantasy game. That is in fact part of the appeal that the game is frequently funny as often as it is serious. The most serious mainline game is probably 13 and they veered incredibly hard in the opposite direction for its sequels and 13 *still* has a scene where a man with a chocobo in his afro gets his kickin' rad new car and then prepares to shoot himself in the face. It's called balance or good writing. FFVI is lacking in that (pun unintended) in the early World of Balance. Just because XIII went the opposite route and was also bad doesn't mean some games can't actually do both comedy and tension well. FFX is far darker and more depressing than XIII but it still has lots of humor in it. Again, it's all about good writing. This is reminding me how when I tried to talk about VII's serious themes several posters in here were like "lul did you remember [x]?" Yes, yes I did. That in no way negates the serious themes of the game. Unlike FFVI which does in fact trip over itself and ruin its tone for a lot of the early game. Thankfully the game gets better as I'm trying to encourage Gaius to continue. The tone becomes far more consistent and powerful. NikkolasKing fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Feb 3, 2022 |
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Feb 3, 2022 20:18
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NikkolasKing posted:Right after Sector 7 is Aerith's entire backstory which is both serious and emotional, the first time we hear her theme, and the climbing the wire is part of an epic "we're taking down the main villain" segment so again pretty serious. FF6 does not ruin its tone lol
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Feb 3, 2022 20:33
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In the same way breaking your leg technically doesn't stop you from running a marathon
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Feb 3, 2022 20:34
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NikkolasKing posted:It's called balance or good writing. FFVI is lacking in that (pun unintended) in the early World of Balance. Just because XIII went the opposite route and was also bad doesn't mean some games can't actually do both comedy and tension well. FFX is far darker and more depressing than XIII but it still has lots of humor in it. Again, it's all about good writing. Yeaaaah, this sounds very much like, "I like VII more so all those examples you guys gave of tonal whiplash don't matter, but they totally do in FFVI!" Why even make the argument when it's clearly an incredibly subjective opinion.
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Feb 3, 2022 20:36
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grieving for Gandalf posted:FF6 does not ruin its tone lol Schwartzcough posted:Yeaaaah, this sounds very much like, "I like VII more so all those examples you guys gave of tonal whiplash don't matter, but they totally do in FFVI!" Why even make the argument when it's clearly an incredibly subjective opinion. Maybe the reason I like VII more is because it does this better. Also I've been very clear from the start of VI chat that I only mean early VI. VI absolutely finds its feet and starts to really care about the plot later, and notably the game gets way, way better. I like VI just fine but it's a game with a very rough beginning, a good middle, and a great end.
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Feb 3, 2022 20:42
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an incredibly subjective statement. glad you found things to like about it overall though
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Feb 3, 2022 20:47
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NikkolasKing posted:Maybe the reason I like VII more is because it does this better. FF6 has a way more tonally consistent first half than FF7 does. I love both games but FF7 gas *massive* tone whiplash. You go from saving a girl fron drowning to riding a dolphin to sneak into a guarded military base where you participate in a parade so bad someine sends you a bomb to a cargo ship where a horrifying monster slaughters people while one of your party members is a dog standing on two legs in a costume. It is cool to like FF7 more but tonally consistent It is not. ImpAtom fucked around with this message at 21:18 on Feb 3, 2022 |
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Feb 3, 2022 21:09
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As an old man, I came to 6 at a formative time and it kinda set in my conciousness to the point where I adore it without question. The progression from 1 to 2 to 3 as released was more pronounced than if we had got the intervening installments. Even when 7 came out, other than the clear graphical shift, at the time it felt like they were doing 6 again, but with a more powerful piece of hardware. The perspective is different if you're just a couple years younger, or you didn't have a console or didn't play roleplaying games until 7. My opinion of both games has improved over time with the context of what subsequent games have tried to attempt and mostly failed in respect to the games that came before. I enjoy 6 more now from the standpoint of it being presented as grand musical theater, more than a traditonal roleplaying game. The size of the ensemble cast, the structure of the narrative, the melodrama and pomp of the soundtrack all meld together once you make that perspective swap. The tonal whiplash suddenly becomes a strength of the presentation when recontextualized as exaggeration for theatrical sense, which gets doubled up on in the actual Opera scene. The characters are playing roles while playing roles, Celes is mirrored as Maria, Ultros steals the scene. The end of that scene can neatly tie off Act 1 although you can argue that Kefka at Narshe also serves for this, which works better if you fit it into a 4 act structure. Act 2 is far more serious until you hit the end and lowest point with the floating continent. Act 3 is all rising action until the culmination at the tower of kefka. I might wright more thoughts later.
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Feb 3, 2022 21:37
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I've been slowly replaying 7 since the beginning of the year, and the thing that's struck me the most is how much more I like the plot than I thought I did from vague, 20 year old memories, while the dialogue itself is often (imo) awful. Most of the times it's fine enough, but sometimes you really have to be willing to gloss over what is literally being said and vibe with what is being implied. I'm still enjoying it, but a retranslated/rewritten version would go a long way, especially since the gameplay has held up much better than I thought it would, even if I don't particularly like materia. Honestly it just makes me appreciate FF7R more, I absolutely loved the writing (and performances!) in that.
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Feb 3, 2022 22:02
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I feel the cast dynamic of the original 7 feels kinda thin. Vincent and Yuffie are optional, and Aerith gets shish-kebbobbed halfway through. That leaves Cloud, Barret, Tifa, Cid, Red XIII, and Caith Sith. Strip off the two wacky animals and the domestic-abuser and that leaves you only three dynamic characters who are in the story from beginning to end. The game works because its about Cloud's perspective first and foremost, but when you take him out of the action and later Tifa, then you see how flat the rest of the cast feels.
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Feb 3, 2022 22:03
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pretty soft girl posted:The changes in most of the ports take out anything that makes the gameplay interesting, same problem with most ports of 1 Like what? Most of the stuff that made NES2 a brutal slog, such as being able to lose stats after fights, was straight up garbage game design. The monster rooms in dungeons didn't make the game interesting either. Beating yourself up for HP so you weren't super fragile sucked too. Even with the crude and bad design 2NES is arguably easier because of the level grind glitch making it possible to max out a spell/weapon skill after 16 fights and a ton of repetition.
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Feb 3, 2022 22:18
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I mean it might be interesting for some, but I enjoyed my 2PR playthrough vs not being able to get more than a couple hours into the original
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Feb 3, 2022 22:26
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Supposing FF2 ever got a hypothetical sequel:
In other words you'd get a saga game.
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Feb 3, 2022 22:42
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Evil Fluffy posted:Like what? Most of the stuff that made NES2 a brutal slog, such as being able to lose stats after fights, was straight up garbage game design. The monster rooms in dungeons didn't make the game interesting either. Beating yourself up for HP so you weren't super fragile sucked too. Off the top of my head, I haven't played 2 NES in a while so I know I'm missing a few: - Limited inventory space forcing you to decide when and where to use items - back row monsters/characters being unable to engage or be reached by melee - dual wielding not auto retargeting to next enemy mid-swing - no auto retargeting at all - overall difficulty level making it so you're not one shotting enemies all over the place Beating yourself up for HP is overblown as being some sort of necessity, in my playthrough I didn't even find max HP to be on my radar of things that made it challenging. If your point is that a JRPG can be made trivial by playing it for 40 times longer than you're supposed to idk if that's anything specific to 2 2NES is a bad game but the ports swing way too far in the opposite direction of being a slog by having almost nothing to engage with because they're too easy, which is the same problem I have with ports of 1
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Feb 3, 2022 22:44
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Inspector Gesicht posted:Supposing FF2 ever got a hypothetical sequel:  Whenever I think about playing through 2 again I end up playing romancing saga 1 instead and I'm much happier for it
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Feb 3, 2022 22:46
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I took one look at Romance 3 and felt lost. That game seemed like the polar opposite of every other 16-bit RPG in being so free-form you drown. I'd need to beat the first two games to even grasp what the formula is.
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Feb 3, 2022 22:55
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Inspector Gesicht posted:I took one look at Romance 3 and felt lost. That game seemed like the polar opposite of every other 16-bit RPG in being so free-form you drown. I'd need to beat the first two games to even grasp what the formula is. Honestly I bounced off of rs1 a few times before it really clicked for me. At the time the english patch was released there weren't any English guides so I was digging through ancient Japanese fansites using Google translate just to figure out how to play the drat thing but once I "got" it I was hooked. I think there are good guides on gamefaqs now to explain what the hell is going on but tbh it might require a certain level of broke-brainedness to enjoy (I voluntarily played ffxi for 7 years of my life) RS1 also continues the proud tradition of ff1 and ff2 where half the poo poo in it is probably broken. The game visibly churns once you have 6 party members and the game is trying to calculate your post-fight rewards
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Feb 3, 2022 23:01
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pretty soft girl posted:In my opinion 2 wins the consistency medal. If I remember right I don't think any portion of that game is presented as anything other than constant sorrow, struggle, and tragedy (except maybe when you talk to beavers? I can't remember much about that part) Borghen's kinda funny! Bumbling idiot gets owned, comes back, gets owned again Though it's not presented as funny, the final boss dying, going to Hell, fighting the Devil, then becoming the Super Devil is ridiculous and makes me laugh
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Feb 3, 2022 23:50
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Tae posted:FF4 has you genocide a village and then go on a friendly romp with the survivor after like 15 minutes not to overanalyze a joke, but for its time I'd say FF4 does a good job with the opening in general and specifically with Rydia. she first tries to kill you and only joins after you rescue her then save her from soldiers; the game remains fairly grim until saving Rosa / Mt Hobs, where Rydia overcomes her trauma and gains a useful spell. not bad for 1990!
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Feb 3, 2022 23:57
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I love how FF4 would use it's combat mechanics to help tell the story. Rydia doesn't learn fire for a while because she has trauma, Tellah only has 99 MP because he's old and tired, etc. Pretty cool for 1990.
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Feb 4, 2022 00:09
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The coin toss scene was well done. This game does not feel like the sixth mainline of a series. The way there's so many systems and minigame type things, and how completely unfocused the game feels, the game feels like something an overly ambitious new team would make. More like a Shadow Hearts than a Dragon Quest. I'm baffled at them not letting me at the whole Esper mechanic yet, Why would you keep the main mechanic of your game be inaccessible for so long? So far the Battle system has been beyond tedious. Bosses have two types of attacks one that does nothing, and one that will almost kill you. And the general encounters are pure busy work. You basically never want to be using the basic fight attack. But that means you have to engage with the incredibly tedious mechanics for people like Cyan and Sabine given even the most basic versions of their skills are a flat increase in damage over fight. And Gau's ability is very poorly implemented. Randomly using moves that don't get described at all is a huge liability, or it would be if anything was at all difficult.
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Feb 4, 2022 00:21
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Probably a dumb question but I can't find any release date for FF6 except this month. Is there an actual date we know yet?
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Feb 4, 2022 01:13
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Nope!
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Feb 4, 2022 01:14
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dolphinbomb posted:Nope! Boo I'm stomping mad I want to play the best now
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Feb 4, 2022 01:18
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