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biracial bear for uncut posted:There's a sci-fi series with a similar question running in the background (starts with a book called "We are Legion, We Are Bob") and the conclusion there is that the only way the copied/cloned personality is the original one is if there is an unbroken chain of experiences and memories for the subjective self. If the chain is broken, the new personality that wakes up is a different--even if very similar--person. I don't really buy the 'he only superficially resembles Alex' part. He acts more like Alex did when poo poo wasn't exploding 24/7 bit he still acts like Alex and Luna treats him like Alex. He died and was reborn but that is a far cry from "isn't the same person." Even if you ignore the concept of a soul it seems like Anne in particular would be pretty sensitive to 'person is replaced' stuff.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:07
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ImpAtom posted:I don't really buy the 'he only superficially resembles Alex' part. He acts more like Alex did when poo poo wasn't exploding 24/7 bit he still acts like Alex and Luna treats him like Alex. He died and was reborn but that is a far cry from "isn't the same person." Even if you ignore the concept of a soul it seems like Anne in particular would be pretty sensitive to 'person is replaced' stuff. That last bit ignores the fact that Anne was stupid and unreliable even before her personalities were haphazardly combined. If anything, throwing all of Dark Anne's impulsiveness and disregard for long-term consequences into the mix of current-Anne's personality just strengthens my argument. I'm also convinced that Anne at the end of the book is literally a different person than she was throughout the rest of the series, but I don't give a poo poo about her character or plotline so I haven't argued about her or used her in an argument.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:11
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I think regardless, we're left with either a fundamentally changed Alex or a new being that thinks he's Alex and I'm not really sure there's a difference there that matters much.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:12
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docbeard posted:I think regardless, we're left with either a fundamentally changed Alex or a new being that thinks he's Alex and I'm not really sure there's a difference there that matters much. The difference is that in the former case there is some chance that Alex can retain control of the Fateweaver and not gently caress everything up again at a later date while in the latter case things are definitely going to get hosed up in the not-too-distant future as the dominant Alex personality is subsumed by the other memories the Fateweaver contains and goes mad, and not even the new version of Anne would be able to stop him.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:17
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biracial bear for uncut posted:That last bit ignores the fact that Anne was stupid and unreliable even before her personalities were haphazardly combined. If anything, throwing all of Dark Anne's impulsiveness and disregard for long-term consequences into the mix of current-Anne's personality just strengthens my argument. I'm also convinced that Anne at the end of the book is literally a different person than she was throughout the rest of the series, but I don't give a poo poo about her character or plotline so I haven't argued about her or used her in an argument. I mean at this point you are arguing that everything the book says is wrong. Which is cool because I agree that character is the worst but it doesn't really work if you don't buy the initial concept. I agree your concept is more interesting, it just doesnt work for me. docbeard posted:I think regardless, we're left with either a fundamentally changed Alex or a new being that thinks he's Alex and I'm not really sure there's a difference there that matters much. I would say it matters because The idea that you are yourself even as you change is pretty important to the series. Young Alex is the same person as Dark Apprentice Alex is the same as Shopkeeper Alex, etc etc. They are all parts of the whole. it kind of loses something if at the end Alex isn't still Alex.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:24
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ImpAtom posted:I mean at this point you are arguing that everything the book says is wrong. Where does the book ever explicitly say Alex is not a different entity entirely? Luna's POV walks right up to the edge of asking if Alex is still even Alex, but stops short because the thought scares her. But that's Luna's whole personality by the end of the series. She runs from problems until forced to confront them or until someone else orders her to. It's not even subtext, it's literally right there in the text.
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Jan 25, 2022 22:34
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Where does the book ever explicitly say Alex is not a different entity entirely? Where does it say he is?
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Jan 25, 2022 22:41
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ImpAtom posted:Where does it say he is? Literally the Epilogue that lists all of the physical and personality differences?
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Jan 26, 2022 10:23
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docbeard posted:There was a Greg Egan novel (Schild's Ladder, I think) that had a somewhat different take on a very similar question. It's been a long time since I've read it but I think the gist was, among post-human not-entirely-corporeal beings, how you could tell if you were still the same person after abandoning body after body. And being a Greg Egan novel the answer took the form of a complicated mathematical equation but the gist of it was that as long as you could draw some kind of line between who you were and who you are, you're probably still the same person in some sense. I think you're thinking of Diaspora which is one of my favorite early-Egan works. I'm behind on Verus so I can't participate in chat but I did see some spoilered text quoting this post and I should probably catch up because this bit of discussion is very interesting.
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Jan 26, 2022 17:23
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Happiness Commando posted:I think you're thinking of Diaspora which is one of my favorite early-Egan works. I'm behind on Verus so I can't participate in chat but I did see some spoilered text quoting this post and I should probably catch up because this bit of discussion is very interesting. It's possible, yeah. I read like three or four of his books in quick succession about ten years ago and they all kind of ran together in my head since then. Was Diaspora the one that had the subplot where they spend a lot of time and effort trying to develop wormhole travel only to discover that it doesn't actually save them any time over conventional spaceflight?
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Jan 26, 2022 17:32
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I'm not familiar with that one at all. It might be one of the books in the Orthogonal series - I noped out of the first one pretty quickly after it became clear that he was very explicitly writing a thin veneer of novel over uninteresting-to-me math/physics, whereas in his earlier works he was writing thicker veneers of novels over interesting-to-me ideas. Schild's Ladder was about the collapse of all space time to a lower energy ground state that didn't support life as it currently existed. Diaspora was about inter-dimensional travel to determine how to save the Earth from a galaxy-sized supernova, or something, and the punchline of the book as I remember it is the adventure is it's own reward, keep on exploring. You've succeeded in identifying a place for people to flee to, but you can't go back, just keep going. It's also notable in the Egan-verse (I guess?) in having an encounter with Wang tile life forms, which were the subject of a short story he had written previously (and was also very interesting-to-me). quote:The short story Wang's Carpets, later expanded to the novel Diaspora, by Greg Egan, postulates a universe, complete with resident organisms and intelligent beings, embodied as Wang tiles implemented by patterns of complex molecules.[18] Happiness Commando fucked around with this message at 18:22 on Jan 26, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 18:17
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I know everyone that has read them probably has a sour taste from the Iron Druid books, but has anybody looked at the new series Kevin Hearne started in the same world that opens with a little book called Ink and Sigil? Just finished reading it and it's an... interesting approach to further exploring the fantasy elements of the Iron Druid world without the Iron Druid himself (except for one cameo in a flashback that really added nothing to the book). Also some really strong Twenty Palaces magic system elements in it (the primary character uses magic by drawing sigils on paper with inks that are basically alchemical/magical potion compounds for different effects and stores a bunch of the sigils in coat pockets). I don't know if it's going to be a better series than Iron Druid yet but it was a much better story without such a lovely protagonist. EDIT: Book Two brings the Iron Druid back as a side-kick character. loving hell. Some Pinko Commie fucked around with this message at 14:05 on Jan 27, 2022 |
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Jan 26, 2022 22:21
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So in Summer Knight (Dresden, book 4), what exactly was Aurora's plan if Mother Winter hadn't given Harry the unweaver? Also, why did Mother Winter give Harry the unweaver? Seems like waiting to give it to him after the seasons switched over would have been less risky.
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Feb 1, 2022 20:50
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mastajake posted:So in Summer Knight (Dresden, book 4), what exactly was Aurora's plan if Mother Winter hadn't given Harry the unweaver? Also, why did Mother Winter give Harry the unweaver? Seems like waiting to give it to him after the seasons switched over would have been less risky. Exactly what happened when Harry foiled the sacrifice of Lily, Aurora would have sacrificed herself and accomplished the same thing she intended (royally loving up the balance of things).
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Feb 1, 2022 21:31
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Yeah, I guess that makes sense.
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Feb 3, 2022 02:22
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That bit makes a lot more sense when you get more info on what the Courts are for later on.
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Feb 3, 2022 03:44
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Gnoman posted:That bit makes a lot more sense when you get more info on what the Courts are for later on. There's stuff Jim Butcher is bad at. Editing. Writing women without sounding like John Cena from Peacemaker. But he's pretty good at logical world-building. In his worlds poo poo makes sense and pays off. That was even true of Roman Pokemon world.
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Feb 3, 2022 05:06
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Everyone posted:There's stuff Jim Butcher is bad at. Editing. Writing women without sounding like John Cena from Peacemaker. But he's pretty good at logical world-building. In his worlds poo poo makes sense and pays off. That was even true of Roman Pokemon world. Well, until he abandoned the original premise and went full into power fantasy and having a Horde enemy as the main threat.
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Feb 3, 2022 11:41
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biracial bear for uncut posted:Well, until he abandoned the original premise and went full into power fantasy and having a Horde enemy as the main threat. Just a really disappointing way for that series to go. I enjoyed the books up until they became that stupidity all the time. There some of that same stupidity in Nemesis but at least he’s used it sparingly thus far.
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Feb 4, 2022 03:21
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I didn't really like the zergs but they were there from the start
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Feb 4, 2022 04:52
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Nihilarian posted:I didn't really like the zergs but they were there from the start The origin bits for a singular enemy were there in the first book, but not the zerg aspect (that was added a few books later).
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Feb 4, 2022 16:47
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Finally got around to finishing the last Verus book. It stuck the landing for me even if it didn't hit the highs I was hoping for. The good news is it didn't ruin the series for me and I would absolutely re-listen to my audiobooks somewhere down the line in the future. I guess there's no new hotness around given how slow this thread has gotten.  Guess I'll patiently wait for the next Rivers of London and Dresden books. I'm glad to hear a third Rook book is coming as well though.
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Feb 16, 2022 04:11
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Xtanstic posted:Finally got around to finishing the last Verus book. It stuck the landing for me even if it didn't hit the highs I was hoping for. The good news is it didn't ruin the series for me and I would absolutely re-listen to my audiobooks somewhere down the line in the future. I guess there's no new hotness around given how slow this thread has gotten. There's no new hotness right this second, but April 12 will see the release Ben Aaronovitch's Amongst Our Weapons, which is Book 9 in the Peter Grant series.
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Feb 16, 2022 05:41
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I'm 'rereading' The Lies of Locke Lamora since I'd never listened to the audiobook, and it's very well done. It's sort of Urban Fantasy, thieves in magical preindustrial Venice.
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Feb 16, 2022 12:39
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If you don't frown on reading books intended for YA audiences there are a *lot* of urban fantasy adjacent fantasy books out there by authors like Claribel Ortega (with a novel called "Ghost Squad", plus several other things she's doing) and if you follow her on Twitter she tends to post a lot of links to works by other authors that are along similar lines, even some that aren't YA (when she isn't posting memes about BTS or What We Do In The Shadows or promoting her latest book).
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Feb 16, 2022 14:26
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I don't mind YA, but sometimes I bounce off them if the beginning is uneven. Glad to hear that I only have to wait until April for a new Peter Grant book though.
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Feb 16, 2022 22:42
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Maybe not urban fantasy exactly, but I liked Brandon Sanderson's "Reckoners" trilogy. Basically superbeings exists but they're all evil, so the Reckoners learned they're weakness and kill them. It's like a YA version of "The Boys."
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Feb 17, 2022 16:55
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Everyone posted:Maybe not urban fantasy exactly, but I liked Brandon Sanderson's "Reckoners" trilogy. Basically superbeings exists but they're all evil, so the Reckoners learned they're weakness and kill them. It's like a YA version of "The Boys." I also liked the conceit that there was no such thing in that version of Earth as a benevolent super. And the more they use their powers the more they become malevolently psychotic.
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Feb 18, 2022 06:14
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Proteus Jones posted:I also liked the conceit that there was no such thing in that version of Earth as a benevolent super. And the more they use their powers the more they become malevolently psychotic. Replace super with billionaire and powers with money. His Divine Shadow fucked around with this message at 15:01 on Feb 18, 2022 |
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Feb 18, 2022 14:58
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His Divine Shadow posted:Replace super with billionaire and powers with money. 
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Feb 18, 2022 19:34
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His Divine Shadow posted:Replace super with billionaire and powers with money. 
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Feb 18, 2022 20:24
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His Divine Shadow posted:Replace super with billionaire and powers with money. I was more pointing out most Superhero fantasies don't have every super being an evil jack hole. But sure, we can go with the Obvious Symbolism of Obviousness too I guess.
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Feb 20, 2022 03:30
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M_Gargantua posted:I'm 'rereading' The Lies of Locke Lamora since I'd never listened to the audiobook, and it's very well done. It's sort of Urban Fantasy, thieves in magical preindustrial Venice. I really enjoyed that series, kind of wished he'd actually finished it.
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Feb 24, 2022 18:24
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I really liked it too. One of his last blog posts in 2016 was talking about delays in his next book being due to extreme anxiety. And I know he talked about depression messing up his writing before #3 got published. He's super active on Twitter though. Posts a bunch about politics and jokes. Probably would fit in around here but doesn't seem to be actively working on anything. Hopefully the guy made his money and can relax a bit.
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Feb 24, 2022 22:39
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I really liked the first one, but I thought they sequels were a lot less interesting. Sad to hear he wasn't able to finish them though.
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Feb 26, 2022 00:47
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Darkrenown posted:I really liked the first one, but I thought they sequels were a lot less interesting. Sad to hear he wasn't able to finish them though. I look at it like it's hard to recapture that magic of first getting introduced to the whole world in those books. So any follow ups are going to be lackluster in comparison. Personally, I really liked all three books. While I would welcome more, if this is all he has in him to give us I'm fine with that too.
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Feb 28, 2022 19:55
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Darkrenown posted:I really liked the first one, but I thought they sequels were a lot less interesting. Sad to hear he wasn't able to finish them though. I thought they were vastly less interesting and by the time the two boys were rigging an election or whatever I was just bored. Did the fourth book ever come out? Thorn of emberlain or something? Edit: Lies of Locke Lamora is v v v good.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:01
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Thorn of Emberlain got delayed indefinitely while Scott Lynch deals with some issues. Though unlike Rothfuss he is at least up front about his work/life balance.
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Feb 28, 2022 21:14
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The twist about Locke's backstory in the last book basically ruined everything interesting about the series anyway
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Feb 28, 2022 21:43
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ImpAtom posted:The twist about Locke's backstory in the last book basically ruined everything interesting about the series anyway What was the twist?
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Mar 1, 2022 19:57
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