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Covok posted:Out of curiosity, how many less hours does it sound I work compared to other people here? Part of the decision making process. To be honest, my boyfriend said if I do look for a new job, maybe consider one without a busy season. I'm also a tax preparer on Long Island, off season I'm rarely hitting 40 hrs a week, busy season I'm doing between 40 and 60 hours a week depending on how behind we get or how close to the deadline we are. I absolutely avoid Sundays, I need one day to do chores like laundry and grocery shopping and my partner doesn't drive so it has to be me. I pretty much decide my hours. Finally hit $60K this past year but I've been doing this longer than you, this will be my 10th tax season. It's a little bullshit but I also get an incentive commission that added up to about $15k on top of that last year, and that should increase this year as it's based on billings I specifically bring to the firm.
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Feb 1, 2022 06:37
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Covok posted:Out of curiosity, how many less hours does it sound I work compared to other people here? Part of the decision making process. To be honest, my boyfriend said if I do look for a new job, maybe consider one without a busy season. When I previously worked for a small CPA firm, the norm during tax season was 60-65 on average with 38-40 during the offseason and my role was similar to yours but with less downtime in the offseason. Most of my corporate accounting career was a relaxed 40, except for month/year end which would usually be an honest 45, allowing me to start a practice on the side. It was great until the owners started arguing. I turned my solo practice into the main job 2 years ago, and I supplement my practice with remote per diem work for another firm. I expect to be 55-60 hours a week total from next week through the rest of tax season but in the offseason it drops to around 20 including administrative tasks and CPE. With busy seasons, you either love them or hate them. If this busy season is less stressful on hours due to better staffing at your firm, your boyfriend might have a different thought on whether you would be better off at a stable 40 hours/week job. At least you have some time to think about where your career will go.
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Feb 1, 2022 16:04
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Ugh, got a few gut punches today. First, a client that I wanted my new co-worker to take today canceled. We are telling people who will be handeling the account up front to avoid issue over the phone. The guys appointment wasn't until March, however, and our cards don't have a place for preparer's names. So we planned to tell people as we confirmed appointments, which we do two weeks in advance. It's not perfect and we all knew some people would be mad but we didn't really have a better option because our clients are used to getting a postcard with a preappointment and they've never had a spot for preparer's names on these cards. Why? According to my boss, it was because when they were a small firm on LI they had a bad year where a guy quit right before busy season and it caused confusion. So now they just tell people their preprarer over the phone when they confirm the appointment to avoid the kerfuffle since the cards go out in November. They like the cards because they belive the preappointment helps retention and most people actually do cancel if they plan to go somewhere else so it does help adequately gauge workload months in advance. I suggested calling everyone now but that ended up dying on the vine because the receptionists were busy doing other things to prep for the season and calling 500 people took a back seat. Not my decision to make, unfortunately. We informed him about the change when he called to reschedule. It was due to capacity and scheduling. He fliped. I offered to just take him back but he took it as a personal offense that we even considered giving him to my co-worker and said he was gonna tell all his friends about this and make a big deal. He wasn't a big client and someone actually gave him to me a while back because they couldn't deal with him. But that anti-referal thing hurts me in light of the news. Then, three clients for my FA cancel, all saying they found a friend who does it for a lot cheaper and weren't interested in using us anymore. They all had decent fees. The former was bad. Especially when he went off on us just being data entry people who know nothing. Which like ignores all the calls I make to the IRS and all the stuff I actually do. He was also offended I charged him a deminis fee of $150 last year to amend his 1040 because he forgot a w-2 and "it was a ten second fix and should have been free" for me to amend his return, despite it entirely being his error. Normally, this wouldn't bug me so much but in light of yesterday's news this really hurts.
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Feb 1, 2022 17:14
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Maybe I shouldn't care? Yesterday, I got a dentist office as a $2,150 account. And the day before I got a doctor's office as a $800 account for just payroll, not even the tax return yet. It's hard to say.
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Feb 1, 2022 17:22
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Covok posted:Maybe I shouldn't care? Yesterday, I got a dentist office as a $2,150 account. And the day before I got a doctor's office as a $800 account for just payroll, not even the tax return yet. It's hard to say. gently caress that guy, annoying clients are not worth the billing. There's always more clients. Always a ton of folks thinking the grass is greener with a different accountant. The cheapskate clients can gently caress off as well. Either their friend really can handle it for cheaper in which case good luck to him or they'll come crawling back in a year or two when they don't get the same quality of work that you provided.
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Feb 1, 2022 18:43
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If a client walks and they’re under like $10,000? Whatever lol And to help you figure out the market Covok, I was making $60,000 base my second year in Big 4 tax working on private equity and real estate clients in Atlanta (think my NYC colleagues were getting like $70kish in 2016 for similar situations). No idea how that translates to working on small fry clients like you got, but if you’ve got like 5 years experience you could certainly be making more money, but it seems like you don’t enjoy working Big 4 type hours, so do with that what you will.
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Feb 1, 2022 20:03
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I’m out of the public accounting game, but I think these were reasonable pay bands for Texas, maybe low for CPAs at Big 4. Tax staff: $55k Tax senior: $75k Tax manager: $95k
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Feb 1, 2022 20:35
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Covok posted:He was also offended I charged him a deminis fee of $150 last year to amend his 1040 because he forgot a w-2 and "it was a ten second fix and should have been free" for me to amend his return, despite it entirely being his error. I work for myself and therefore don't have anyone giving me targets to hit, but any client who said this to me would be told good luck, and I would not take them back in the future.
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Feb 2, 2022 03:41
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Yeah client turnover is normal, honestly you want to drop these low value clients. Where you really make money is value add services for your better clients, like tax planning. Anyway, to add to the thread, 5+years at 60k is under market. Stop using tax preparer as a comp, that is a data entry position, you are not doing data entry. In NYC public, at 5+year senior you should be over 90k+ base, although you can certainly make more. Long Island is probably a little lower, I'm guessing. I work constantly, always on call, emergencies and deadlines every week, 70 plus hours all January so far, all live deal consulting work. When it's not crazy, it's more like 40 a week. Tax busy season in Spring is like 50, plus consulting fire drills. Late summer through fall I'm working 60 65 a week to cover extended deadline returns (international, so it always gets extended). After October through December is usually not too bad. That said, I make more than 200 base, so it all comes down to priorities. Not really sure it's worth it honestly.
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Feb 2, 2022 18:18
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For those of you in public who do entity returns, how are you dealing with the change from the IRS regarding the filing of Schedules K-2/K-3 with partnership and S corp returns? The original instructions led me to believe that they only needed to be filed if if the entity had foreign activities, so given the clients I deal with I didn't worry much about it during my year-end CPE, but the update effectively means that if any owner of the entity is required to file Form 1116 or 1118, then the entity needs to do K-2/K-3 for everyone. What a nice thing for the Service to drop in January. https://www.currentfederaltaxdevelopments.com/blog/2022/1/29/bd3pl7lnn5ruf2ylkei8jefx2bxkey is a good write-up on the issue. The brainstorming within the firm I per diem for has us thinking that if we prepare all of the owner returns, we can safely skip K-2/K-3 if we know there aren't 1116 issues, but for everyone else it would just be easier to prep it than to try to get the client to get certifications from the owners and we'd be answering a lot of questions from the non-client partners. We're also assuming that the IRS is about to get yelled at a lot for this change and will give us new transition guidance way too late to be helpful  We're fortunate that UltraTax at least has these schedules working, but unfortunately it's all manual entry on the K-2.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:48
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I’m in London doing US private equity tax so our approach is raise fees by 15-20% and assume we have to do it (we absolutely do). That said, it’s ultimately an investor/partner relations matter. Tell them that given the guidance you’ll need them to confirm that they do not require K-3 reporting with their investors/partners, or else their fees are $X,000 more this year. Hell if you were real greedy you could charge them for “K-3 testing” if you want. Another thing to consider is that even with the guidance, it’s not like you’re remotely going to need to fill out the whole thing if you happen to have a partnership with a guy who needs apportionment factors for foreign tax credit. Doesn’t sound like a big deal now but you’ll appreciate not having to fill out the PFIC or BEAT parts when you go to fill it out.
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Feb 3, 2022 18:54
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I'm pulling my god drat hair out is what I'm doing. I'm leading a task force on K-2/K-3 for my firm and I've been trying to send the message since November that we are going to have to do this for the majority of our 1065s and 1120-S returns unless we can confirm no one is filing an 1116 or 1118. I've given 20 trainings and developed a flow chart for whether a given partnership has to file and what sections to complete. This is complicated by the fact you have to look through pass-throughs, so if you have a big fund as a partner, you basically have to assume you need to complete Parts I through IV, IX, and X. Mostly it will just be a matter of throwing income and expenses in the US source column, but it gets complicated with interest expense for example, which is typically sourced by partner, or personal property sales, and average asset values for apportionment of interest have to be reported on ADS basis, when we mostly run MACRS in the return. We're trying to charge hours and rates for the extra work, but idk how well that is going to work for a lot of our clients.
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Feb 4, 2022 00:27
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[I clearly deal with very small potato clients compared to you and PatMarshall. On the ones I've been seeing, there would definitely a lot of blank pages, so the time it takes to do the K-2/K-3 would only be annoying compared to season-destroying as you guys are facing.
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Feb 4, 2022 01:21
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Lolololol. Love to see people get a taste of what expats who run a foreign business have to deal with every year.
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Feb 4, 2022 02:04
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We are pretty much extending anyone that has this issue. Nowhere near enough time to get our hands around this effectively.
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Feb 4, 2022 05:01
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I have hit the point where I tell loan providers who ask for income verification to politely gently caress off. I did a letter today where I put an entire paragraph explaining I won't verify solvency under any circumstances whatsoever and I cited the NYS DOS website database of corporations to give them the incorporation date and owner.
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Feb 4, 2022 18:34
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I always wonder why they ask for that. All I can tell you is what we put on the return, I'm not auditing my clients financials.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:40
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PatMarshall posted:I always wonder why they ask for that. All I can tell you is what we put on the return, I'm not auditing my clients financials. Liability. They want to be able to say you told them everything was fine so they don't get sued if the client defaults. Its about shifting legal burden away from their company. It's especially common in lovely lender places that do anything for comissions since they have high chance of a lawsuit for their shoddy work.
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Feb 4, 2022 21:42
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The only times I've gotten calls like that were basic "Does X own Y company" or "Is X company still operating" and that's been a simple "to the best of my knowledge yes/no" answer from me.
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Feb 4, 2022 22:44
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PatMarshall posted:I always wonder why they ask for that. All I can tell you is what we put on the return, I'm not auditing my clients financials. Funny enough, while writing this response, I got a call from a person who self-prepares their return. They're trying to get a mortgage and the loan processor says they require a CPA to sign a statement that taking money out of their business to make a down payment on a house will not impact the business. So they're Googling local CPAs and calling them until they find one dumb enough to agree to do this. I only have problems with the third-party brokers. It's a combination of liability shifting (like what Covok said), that the loan is being packaged and sold to third-party investors, and that the person at the lending company is not properly trained to do this. Due diligence is easy when the client is a W-2 employee; just call up the employer and annoy them. Some business clients usually have audited financial statements to rely on, or already have a good working relationship with a bank who does their own due diligence, or both. But if you're outside those fact patterns it's a mess. Over the years I've been asked "Why can't you sign off on this letter; don't you stand behind the quality of your work?" and "If you don't write this letter, I'll have to tell your client that they can't get the loan because of this." I've had loan processors contact me on a Friday claiming that the letter is necessary for Monday's closing. I've had one loan provider try to get my client to forge a letter for their file -- that one was a doozy. At this point, when I find out a business client is trying to get a loan, I have a quick chat about the situation. I also try to lead them to the local banks and credit unions who don't pull this sort of garbage.
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Feb 4, 2022 23:59
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One thing I will say nice about my job is that, today. I noticed that my first appointment was 11am and my last was 2pm. So I asked if I could just come and go at 10:45 and leave at 3:15 and she thought it was a good idea. And I left work all week at 5pm. But still, I want my loving money. Covok fucked around with this message at 00:48 on Feb 5, 2022 |
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Feb 5, 2022 00:45
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Also, it has not been hard at all to raise fees. No pushback so far and I have raised some 20%. We found out some local firms are dumping clients by doubling their minimum fees. We aren't going 200% since we just have to hit 10% so we are getting some excess. With the new CPA, so far we are moving along fine.
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Feb 5, 2022 00:46
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PatMarshall posted:
seriously, how are there multiple posters stuck that low? My comp history, which is almost entirely at market for west coast HCOL at every step: Year 1 - Staff - 60 base + overtime Year 1.5 - Staff II (switched firms) - 67 base + OT Year 2 - Senior - 72 base + OT Year 3 - Senior II - 80 base + OT Year 3.5 - Manager - 120 base Year 4 - Manager (midyear comp adjustment because the big 4 all did) - 132 base
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Feb 9, 2022 23:25
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I have a theory. 1) Work for a smaller regional firm and not the big 4 or a major accounting company. Promotions are not guarnteee and you don't make senior or manager automatically. Instead someone usually has to quit reitre or get fired for a big promotion to open up. 2) Work on less specialized, less intensive field that is valued less, like personal returns for middle to low income earners and smaller corporations 3) Live in the state with some of the most CPAs per capita in America, ironically devaluing the entire profession in the area. I mean you should see the fees in the state. Most start at just $250 for a 1040. My boss moved to NJ and suddenly she found that most people charge $500 minimum for a 1040, with most people paying way more. And I seriously think the difference in fees comes down to abundance of choice in NY causing people to undersell each other and keep prices down. I charge more but I get so many people who gawk at my prices and come in with prior year invoices as low as $150, which is insane considering how loving extra difficult these last few years were. Though, ironically, COVID has been making this easier slowly as a lot of cheap accountants seem to be retiring or leaving the industry. But like I don't touch a corporate return for less than $750 and that's like an absolute basic one with that only covering the literal return itself with them supplying bookkeeping and I have people telling me they are paying just $300 for theirs. I think a lot of older accountants never up their prices much when they get established and the recent deaths and retiring are throwing all these really cheap clients out who are getting shocked how much people charge. I have been standing firm on my prices and its heen working out. Either going to use my higher fees for a raise or I am popping out and getting a better job elsewhere later this year or next. 4) Work for someone else and not yourself. That seems to be the commonality. I mean even the director of the entire division at my company only makes 150k a year and she is 76 years old and came in by selling her business to the company. And her real salary is only 100k and shr has to earn the remaining 50k by doing acquisitions. She makes more because they are still paying for the business she sold to them but that runs out in a few years. Covok fucked around with this message at 03:21 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 02:46
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That’s like a whole different universe to me. We won’t take new clients for under 5k and really look at 10k+ as the goal My firm fired tons of 3-7k clients the last year or so
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Feb 10, 2022 04:25
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Ungratek posted:That’s like a whole different universe to me. We won’t take new clients for under 5k and really look at 10k+ as the goal Chances are those are massive companies. The average fee for a 1120S in America is about $800 in 2021. Heck, the average cost of a 1040 in America is $294 if you itemize and $188 if you don't. There are only so many massive clients to go around in the country. Most clients are not that big. CPAs are raising their fees this year but like the highest I heard was like $750 for a 1040 minimum. I mean I have access to the books for the office because my manager doesn't understand software so I managed the book software during lockdown when we didn't have a office admin. She also showed me the P& L for the year. The entire office billed out 500k-550k last year in tax prep and got like 1 million from financial planning by our advisor, which he gets a cut. Last year, I only billed out roughly 250k to 350k (I'll check the exact figure tomorrow) and normally I split that figure with another CPA. I was understaffed since 2020 because my coworker went to their own firm. This year I do have another CPA so it's been really easy so far. So, for example, my base salary of 60k is 24% of what I billed out all of last year before my bonus. Well, if I am right it was 250k. If we evenly split the work this year, for example, my base salary would actually be 47% of what I bill. But we are a little skewed. We inherited like 900 clients from a guy whose average fee was $150 dollars. That's who I was hired to replace and asked to find ways to keep the clients while also increasing fees. Every year I have been bumping them up but it skews the figures since their fees are so low compared to clients I take. Like, I got a 1040 today that was a married couple with two rental properties and two W-2s and my fee was $600. The old accountant would have done it for $250-300. For the record, we don't still have all 900 of them. We basically told all the clients under $150 that their fee was going to at least $150 and a lot of them bolted. We considered it good riddance. $150 is low but it can be raised to something decent over time. But less than $150 is an insult unless it only takes you 5 minutes to do and nothing is that fast. Covok fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 07:46
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I guess it's worth noting I am only mentioning the actual prep fees for the companies tax returns and not the fee for our complete package of bookkeeping, sales tax and payroll tax. So our fees may seem lower with how I described them. Like, I charge one client $700 a month for the complete package and an extra $2,000 for the return. So that actually is $10k. But that was a client I got. A lot of the old guys rates were like 200 twice a quarter and $700 for the return so like 2.3k. And that's the businesses, not the personal. Personals are usually just the return and a once in a bluemoon consulting fee. We've been raising them but still. Covok fucked around with this message at 08:09 on Feb 10, 2022 |
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Feb 10, 2022 07:56
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Sounds like a tough practice. My practice is destroying my soul, but we are very profitable. Mostly money from the gulf states right now looking for real estate investment opps in the US. Plenty of by the hour structuring work to be done, then recurring fees around 10k for the ongoing compliance for the blockers. We're also dealing with K-2/K-3 which has been a nightmare, but we should get some additional fees out of it. I'm trying to get to 1.5M revenue under my name this year, should be doable.
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Feb 11, 2022 01:07
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Does anyone know what Friedman LLP is? I just did taxes for an auditor who interned here two years ago. She's younger than me and was making a little less than me at her old job at a local firm but she jumped to Friedman LLP and got a 30k raise.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:07
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I quit my job to become partner at another place and I'm having weird emotions and feelings. We've arranged that I'll continue to work on a contract basis through April 15 so they're slightly less hosed.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:53
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lol I haven't even looked at K2/K3 yet. I should probably get on that. lol.
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Feb 12, 2022 17:54
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Hellblazer187 posted:I quit my job to become partner at another place and I'm having weird emotions and feelings. We've arranged that I'll continue to work on a contract basis through April 15 so they're slightly less hosed. Why what's happening?
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Feb 12, 2022 18:27
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I think you'll get a kick out of this. I had to tell a client off today. The guy is a CBS technician. Making about 120k. Real pain in the rear end too. He said I should do his 20 year old daughter's return for free because she only makes 30k and it only took me 5 minutes. Yeah, I didn't do it for free. I made it pretty clear that wasn't how things worked. He got the point at me asking him if he'd film a commercial for free because it's not a full episode of a show. That was not the only thing I said.
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Feb 12, 2022 23:44
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Covok posted:Why what's happening? It's just a difficult transition for me. I think my bosses at the other firm are good people. But, as my posting over the last few years might indicate I have been deeply unhappy. How much of that was my work, how much was my marital problems, and how much was the pandemic (and of course how each of those things impacted each other). I believe that this move will be good for my mental health. Smaller firm, less complex clients. But I'll be my own boss more or less (will have one partner). I'm really not super duper good at processing my own emotions either.
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Feb 13, 2022 00:22
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Covok posted:Does anyone know what Friedman LLP is? I just did taxes for an auditor who interned here two years ago. She's younger than me and was making a little less than me at her old job at a local firm but she jumped to Friedman LLP and got a 30k raise. Well regarded public accounting firm, middle market, based in NYC.
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Feb 13, 2022 19:34
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I don't suppose any of y'all happen to work at Mazars and feel like filling us in on the behind-the-scenes chatter that led to this masterpiece of how to fire a tax client https://twitter.com/nycsouthpaw/status/1493324645583441922
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Feb 14, 2022 22:42
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Blotto_Otter posted:I don't suppose any of y'all happen to work at Mazars and feel like filling us in on the behind-the-scenes chatter that led to this masterpiece of how to fire a tax client Funny enough, that auditor I did who went to Friedman? They worked at Mazars.
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Feb 15, 2022 02:52
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That's hardly the biggest scandal at weisermazars, the tax partner I interviewed with once stabbed his wife to death shortly thereafter. Glad I didn't take the job.
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Feb 15, 2022 04:02
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PatMarshall posted:That's hardly the biggest scandal at weisermazars, the tax partner I interviewed with once stabbed his wife to death shortly thereafter. Glad I didn't take the job. My father was a partner in that office. Basically couldn’t answer the phone for a month after that happened.
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Feb 15, 2022 04:36
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PatMarshall posted:That's hardly the biggest scandal at weisermazars, the tax partner I interviewed with once stabbed his wife to death shortly thereafter. Glad I didn't take the job. HOLY PISS
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Feb 15, 2022 19:11
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