|
TjyvTompa posted:Probably not exactly what you are looking for but I found this video interesting: That looks really cool, looking forward to the release. PittTheElder posted:one of which remains an unannounced placeholder. You know it'll be a Roman one
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2022 20:33
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:54 |
|
|
That's what I thought about the first two.  I mean I want it to be, but only if it's to rework it into an actual centralized Imperial state, and dispensing with the antiquated ideas of Anatolian Magnates acting just like western feudal rulers. Yet I fear it will actually be about Roman meme history, triumph events, ejecting Muslims etc.
|
|
#
?
Feb 4, 2022 21:00
|
|
Yes, it's like a lava lamp.
|
Was playing my usual Ireland game of Crusader Kings 2, ended up with all of Ireland, all of Scotland and a claim on England through the king's wife. Which was going well, until she ate a Mysterious Assassination right before victory that cancelled out the war. Which led to me getting mad enough to immediately press her daughter's claim to England, and...yeah, now 10 year old Nuala runs England with an iron fist, no regent in sight. I wanted England myself to round out the empire, but Nuala can't be landed because lol Catholic laws and she can't be assassinated because she's my king's kid. Whoops 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 09:29
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:That's what I thought about the first two. It really stung seeing the Byzantines modelled so poorly on release, especially when it was a clear step back from CK2, which was already very poor. I told myself at the time that it must mean they were going to model them much better in a future DLC, but I didn’t expect to be waiting anywhere near this long. Even beyond the Byzantines, pretty much every tag in the game is modelled very generically and simplistically, which I forgave at release because I was expecting frequent DLCs to deepen and complicate those systems, and I find it a tad frustrating that the first major DLC a year and a half into release is a fancy room with some extra events and the artefact system that, frankly, always felt like a “game-y” element completely detached from reality and was one of my least favourite things about CK2. I know there’s been a pandemic and all, but it’s crazy to think that by this point in CK2’s release cycle, we’d already had Sword of Islam, Legacy of Rome, Sunset Invasion, the Republic, and the Old Gods, and were on the run-up to the release of Sons of Abraham. If the next DLC is Rome and it takes as long as Royal Court, it’ll be out, what, 3 years after release of the base game? So in CK2 terms, after Sons of Abraham, Charlemagne, Rajas of India, and Way of Life. I’d hardly expect that sort of content cycle under the circumstances, but I really was hoping we’d have things fleshed out for at least some places by now.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 14:22
|
|
|
Disclaimer: I no longer work on CK3, nor even at Paradox. But I can assure you that the team shares your frustrations re: not getting stuff out the door. CK3 is several orders of magnitude more complex to develop for than CK2, the quality floor is significantly raised, and the organizational complexity is greater than anything PDS has dealt with before. There are mitigation strategies being worked on for all of the above, but I can't say when you will start seeing results.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 16:42
|
|
|
For what it's worth, the third DLC is supposed to be another flavour pack, so smaller in scope and likely in time frame (Northern Lords came out like six months after release and half of that was vacation time). I would be Deeply Surprised if a) it wasn't out this year and b) it wasn't about Byzantium/Rome. I just hope it fixes the right things. In the meantime, from what I can tell of the culture rework it should do a lot to differentiate tags from each other, and it's even mostly free (ie, paid for by Viewers Like Me that bought the DLC early I guess). Dallan Invictus fucked around with this message at 19:17 on Feb 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 17:24
|
|
|
Honestly I would expect that a Byzantine rework (and the new Government type it will require) would be well outside the scope of a flavour pack
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 17:36
|
|
|
LordMune posted:Disclaimer: I no longer work on CK3, nor even at Paradox. A cool post, always appreciate the (former) insider perspective. Is there anything you can share about why it's so complex? Like is that organizational complexity a quality management thing (understandable given that there are almost no bugs at all in the releases that I've noticed)? Or is there something particular to the CK3 engine that makes it difficult to develop on? Reveilled posted:It really stung seeing the Byzantines modelled so poorly on release, especially when it was a clear step back from CK2, which was already very poor. I told myself at the time that it must mean they were going to model them much better in a future DLC, but I didn’t expect to be waiting anywhere near this long. Even beyond the Byzantines, pretty much every tag in the game is modelled very generically and simplistically, which I forgave at release because I was expecting frequent DLCs to deepen and complicate those systems, and I find it a tad frustrating that the first major DLC a year and a half into release is a fancy room with some extra events and the artefact system that, frankly, always felt like a “game-y” element completely detached from reality and was one of my least favourite things about CK2.  I'm holding my judgment for Tuesday since we don't actually know how much of the changes are graphics for the room and random artifacts (which feel like the wrong direction entirely to invest in) and how much is the court splendor/offices and culture changes, which certainly have the potential to be extremely good additions. At the very least the flashy parts they've been advertising in the dev diaries are not at all the parts I'm interested in. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Feb 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 17:55
|
|
|
DeathChicken posted:Was playing my usual Ireland game of Crusader Kings 2, ended up with all of Ireland, all of Scotland and a claim on England through the king's wife. Which was going well, until she ate a Mysterious Assassination right before victory that cancelled out the war. Which led to me getting mad enough to immediately press her daughter's claim to England, and...yeah, now 10 year old Nuala runs England with an iron fist, no regent in sight. I wanted England myself to round out the empire, but Nuala can't be landed because lol Catholic laws and she can't be assassinated because she's my king's kid. Whoops Just make sure she marries matrilineally or marries a relatively close relative to keep the throne within the dynasty. A couple generations of inbreeding at most and you're securely in for throne
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 17:58
|
|
|
AnEdgelord posted:Honestly I would expect that a Byzantine rework (and the new Government type it will require) would be well outside the scope of a flavour pack Considering that the way religion and culture have been worked in CK3 I'd like to see them take the kind of thing they've done with the Tenets/Pillars system and expand it to governments. Also allows them to create different mechanics for nomads as well as the Romans at the same time, which can then be further expanded on in Flavour Packs.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 18:20
|
|
|
Whorelord posted:Considering that the way religion and culture have been worked in CK3 I'd like to see them take the kind of thing they've done with the Tenets/Pillars system and expand it to governments. Also allows them to create different mechanics for nomads as well as the Romans at the same time, which can then be further expanded on in Flavour Packs. Yeah, a government rework in a free update (along the lines of this culture rework) coupled with some Byzaboo Red Meat in a flavour DLC seems plausible, though maybe I'm just being overly optimistic. I absolutely agree it's needed, though. CK3 is a newbuild house with decent and expandable structure but limited character.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 19:19
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:Just make sure she marries matrilineally or marries a relatively close relative to keep the throne within the dynasty. A couple generations of inbreeding at most and you're securely in for throne Yeah, unfortunately I didn't betroth her prior to giving her England, so now she rejects all betrothal options as not important enough. Whoops And just to make it more fun, right after the war King Cormac was approached by the devil worshippers and now answers to our Lord Lucifer. They gave him a neat cloak 
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 20:10
|
|
|
A favorite tactic of mine is to find random unlanded and unmarried claimants to something I want and marrying them to someone from my family to assure their kids will be my dynasty and then pressing their claims. If they don't lose to a revolt or other claimant right after it will be under the control of my dynasty within a generation.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 20:26
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:A cool post, always appreciate the (former) insider perspective. Is there anything you can share about why it's so complex? Like is that organizational complexity a quality management thing (understandable given that there are almost no bugs at all in the releases that I've noticed)? Or is there something particular to the CK3 engine that makes it difficult to develop on? Sort of all of the above. Higher-quality code, script, and text all take longer to write than lower-quality equivalents (not to mention the R&D going into e.g. DNA for lineages of 3D character models, for a studio traditionally concerned with nominally flat maps as the chief visual element), doubly so if you're pushing for increased flexibility and design ambition at the same time. The increase in complexity and time needed translates into more developers for "less" output, which strains organizational processes and know-how. It also makes QA more resource-intensive while the tolerance for bugs has plummeted, et cetera and so on. The version of the Clausewitz engine CK3 runs on isn't more difficult to develop on, but the possibility space it allows coupled with internal and external demands on the product make the game incompatible with the development practices (and release schedule) of CK2-era PDS games. But the organization is evolving to, hopefully, strike a better balance going forward. EDIT: I should note that the above isn't PDS-specific in any way. Many (successful) game dev studios have gone or and will go through similar experiences. The growing pains of ambition. LordMune fucked around with this message at 21:50 on Feb 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 21:44
|
|
|
Oh definitely, I'm in SW myself, and was even involved in defining a lot of the processes for compliance with the standard we aspire to comply with. I say aspire because it requires a lot of extra work, and the execs are (not unjustifiably) endlessly delaying the implementation of any of it, because it would slow down the release schedule a lot, particularly during the first few attempts to follow it. Don't suppose you're willing to spill the tea on how much - if any - effort is spent on grounding features historically? Expecting the game devs to be reading history books on the side is probably too much to ask, but is there any other approach? The DNA system is something that had completely slipped my mind, it works so well that it just slides into the background, which I mean in the best way. PittTheElder fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Feb 5, 2022 |
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 22:54
|
|
|
FreudianSlippers posted:A favorite tactic of mine is to find random unlanded and unmarried claimants to something I want and marrying them to someone from my family to assure their kids will be my dynasty and then pressing their claims. If they don't lose to a revolt or other claimant right after it will be under the control of my dynasty within a generation. I enjoy this as my extremely weak attempt at the dynasty of many crowns achievement. It doesn't work out though, even if their original title is good they end up with some podunk duchy after a generation or two.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 23:10
|
|
|
pidan posted:I enjoy this as my extremely weak attempt at the dynasty of many crowns achievement. It doesn't work out though, even if their original title is good they end up with some podunk duchy after a generation or two. Yeah but do it consistently and you'll end up with either a bunch of vassals who are your relatives and thus fairly peaceful or a lot of independent allies.
|
|
#
?
Feb 5, 2022 23:24
|
|
|
pidan posted:I enjoy this as my extremely weak attempt at the dynasty of many crowns achievement. It doesn't work out though, even if their original title is good they end up with some podunk duchy after a generation or two. If you really want the achievement, start as a Tribal somewhere where there's loads of small-ish Kingdoms (Sub-Saharan Africa, Russia, India) and use your crazy Tribal CBs to rampage all over the place. Just allow your realm to break up into different Kingdoms each succession, never ever form an Empire. In my Duara run I was making like 20+ Renown/mo by like 950
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 05:13
|
|
|
So I just started playing this a few days ago, but have a lot of experience with other Paradox games. What I want to do is play as one of the off-shoot Christian religions, the messalianism sect. It seems that this automatically gives all adjoining countries a Holy War CB against me. I take it that it is pretty much impossible to play as any of these like 20 heresies that they have available? First game I started in Italy and was war decc'd within the first year. Second game I started on Ireland and had absorbed a few more counties then William the Conqueror and all 20k of his troops declared on me. I am getting the feeling that if you want to play with any of their neat religions you have to start as vanilla catholic, get to a point where you are pretty untouchable/won the game effectively, then switch religions?
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 05:28
|
|
|
Or just have strong military friends of the same religion. Or have Catholic hard alliances of your immediate neighbors via marriage. Playing a Christian heresy when starting small is absolutely putting a 'kick me' sign on your own back.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 05:50
|
|
|
Yeah if you wanna be a Christian sect you either better have the Ecumenism tenet, or you have to be able to defend yourself. Luckily the latter is generally not too hard. Men at Arms are your friend.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 07:15
|
|
|
Whorelord posted:Considering that the way religion and culture have been worked in CK3 I'd like to see them take the kind of thing they've done with the Tenets/Pillars system and expand it to governments. Also allows them to create different mechanics for nomads as well as the Romans at the same time, which can then be further expanded on in Flavour Packs. I mean, the culture system does get massively expanded to be more customizable with Royal Court, and it's going to surpass anything CK2 ever did with it. It wouldn't surprise me the least if governments would be next in line to get this. Reveilled posted:It really stung seeing the Byzantines modelled so poorly on release, especially when it was a clear step back from CK2, which was already very poor. I told myself at the time that it must mean they were going to model them much better in a future DLC, but I didn’t expect to be waiting anywhere near this long. Even beyond the Byzantines, pretty much every tag in the game is modelled very generically and simplistically, which I forgave at release because I was expecting frequent DLCs to deepen and complicate those systems, and I find it a tad frustrating that the first major DLC a year and a half into release is a fancy room with some extra events and the artefact system that, frankly, always felt like a “game-y” element completely detached from reality and was one of my least favourite things about CK2. I'm heartened by this message from one of the CK3 mod discords: quote:In other news, Way of Kings is recruiting! The Royal Court is a huge expansion (Seriously; I don't think you'd realize just how huge it is from the official teasers) so be it by art, programming, or just relieving the pressure by doing the simplest database tweaks and localization: any help is welcome! And as I wrote above, the culture framework will be brought up to the level of the religions framework, which is far more than just a fancy room and an artefact system. So I'm just hopeful that Royal Court will be a positive surprise in how much it changes. That said, I do agree that overall, CK3 so far hasn't been as engaging as CK2 had been at least since the Old Gods release.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 08:59
|
|
|
Yeah I don’t think they anticipated it being this long, but they did say they wanted to do bigger/less frequent expansions. And if they’re all as massive as this one seems to be I’m more than happy with that decision, because I think that’s how you get high quality systems that are well integrated with the rest of the game rather than a ton of weird vestigial things. What I’d love is if they had a team doing expansions and one that was similar to the Stellaris curator team. Quarterly patches addressing base game issues. I could stay engaged even with infrequent expansions if there are frequent updates keeping the game that little bit fresh in between.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 17:51
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:Don't suppose you're willing to spill the tea on how much - if any - effort is spent on grounding features historically? Expecting the game devs to be reading history books on the side is probably too much to ask, but is there any other approach? I mean, gameplay comes first. But the USP of the game kind of requires that designs have sufficient grounding in history in order to provide an appropriate level of verisimilitude. PDS does not employ historians — though they do employ developers with history degrees — but some modicum of research is expected when e.g. a content designer writes events about subject x, and so on.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 20:21
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:So I just started playing this a few days ago, but have a lot of experience with other Paradox games. What I want to do is play as one of the off-shoot Christian religions, the messalianism sect. It seems that this automatically gives all adjoining countries a Holy War CB against me. I take it that it is pretty much impossible to play as any of these like 20 heresies that they have available? First game I started in Italy and was war decc'd within the first year. Second game I started on Ireland and had absorbed a few more counties then William the Conqueror and all 20k of his troops declared on me. I am getting the feeling that if you want to play with any of their neat religions you have to start as vanilla catholic, get to a point where you are pretty untouchable/won the game effectively, then switch religions? As others have said it's far from impossible. One of my favorite playthroughs was starting as a 1 county Messalian in Italy. You will learn quickly who you need to have an answer for and it ads a ton of challenge. Being a heretic doesn't mean you can't form allies with christians, it's just harder. In that playthough I ended up getting a hook on the Byzantine empreror, swearing fealty and getting religious protection and building up and undermining them from within. It was super fun.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 21:23
|
|
|
IncredibleIgloo posted:So I just started playing this a few days ago, but have a lot of experience with other Paradox games. What I want to do is play as one of the off-shoot Christian religions, the messalianism sect. It seems that this automatically gives all adjoining countries a Holy War CB against me. I take it that it is pretty much impossible to play as any of these like 20 heresies that they have available? First game I started in Italy and was war decc'd within the first year. Second game I started on Ireland and had absorbed a few more counties then William the Conqueror and all 20k of his troops declared on me. I am getting the feeling that if you want to play with any of their neat religions you have to start as vanilla catholic, get to a point where you are pretty untouchable/won the game effectively, then switch religions? There was a video released recently where a really good player does this, play as a messalian character in the heart of the HRE. Even he had to concede defeat several times as it is really hard but it can be done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uTE4bus03w8
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 21:31
|
|
|
SlothBear posted:As others have said it's far from impossible. One of my favorite playthroughs was starting as a 1 county Messalian in Italy. You will learn quickly who you need to have an answer for and it ads a ton of challenge. Being a heretic doesn't mean you can't form allies with christians, it's just harder. Heh I did the same with house Karen for the tahirids. Joined their war against the guys in the middle of persia, managed to get religious freedom and then fought all the other vassals while marrying my sister. In two generations the guy was down to a single settlement and vibin while everyone in the countryside was building fire altars and roasting smores on them.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 22:04
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:Yeah if you wanna be a Christian sect you either better have the Ecumenism tenet, or you have to be able to defend yourself. Luckily the latter is generally not too hard. Men at Arms are your friend. One other possibility here (the last two posts allude to this) is that if you aren't independent, your neighbours don't get the Holy War CB against you (unless they are foreigners that would get it against your liege, sure, but then they'd have to fight your liege). Your liege may try to revoke/imprison you for heresy, or convert your territory back to their faith, but if you butter them up and/or get a hook on them and get religious protection and/or title revocation protection into your contract then they're much less of a threat while you build yourself up via inheritance/intrigue.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 22:20
|
|
|
I recently got the expansion pass and started messing with the Norse stuff. Is it just me or does having concubines actively hurt your game? Between the wife and 2 captured concubines, I have like 5 sons and my heir will inherit exactly one county. Not exactly conducive to holding much of anything together. I am ok with some partitioning, its part of the game especially early on but going from King of the Danelaw with 5 personal holdings with 2 jarls as vassals and then instantly going down to 1 county seems like a recipe for game over.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 23:25
|
|
|
Some people really like having many sons and then murdering, disinheriting or otherwise removing the less preferred ones. Others enjoy conquering everything back each generation. I don't, so I also like monogamy best. That said, you can always fill your needed wives and concubine slots with post menopausal women, or chaste lesbians, or just generally people who are unlikely to have many children.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 23:28
|
|
|
Also sometimes you get situations like my recent Ireland game where you start out with several heirs, then they all drop dead of smallpox and it's suddenly like "Yes, legitimizing my sole surviving bastard daughter is a great idea"
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 23:31
|
|
|
Starting as a wrong-religion vassal is definitely safer. As far as religious protection or title revocation protection, it depends upon what your liege thinks of your religion. If it's a crime to reject a conversion demand but your religion isn't criminal, definitely take the religious protection since you'll have protection from being declared a criminal. Your liege might hate you, but he probably won't demand your land if you're not a criminal. Otherwise, take the title revocation protection. You can reject the conversion demand and then let him imprison you, and either escape or ransom yourself afterwards. Unless your liege is a vengeful zealous rear end in a top hat, he's very unlikely to execute you instead of ransoming you.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 23:35
|
|
|
pidan posted:Some people really like having many sons and then murdering, disinheriting or otherwise removing the less preferred ones. Others enjoy conquering everything back each generation. I don't, so I also like monogamy best. I prefer having way more kids than I know what to do with, and then watching the ensuing chaos after an inheritance. I also go out of my way to make sure as many of my sons as possible are landed. In our last Mapgoons multiplayer game we were using the Ireland mod, and it was extremely funny (for me) to be a powerful vassal under another player and watching him have to deal with my rear end in a top hat family. Out of 15 hours worth of sessions I think he spent more than 10 of them dealing with revolts from my dynasty. Meanwhile I was just getting more and more powerful from building cities and buildings in my personal holdings, while making sure to install my sons into ever more holdings inside the kingdom.
|
|
#
?
Feb 6, 2022 23:58
|
|
|
https://twitter.com/ElderKingsCK3/status/1490007561633992705?s=20&t=iJorlQHyZ4LxD0DAEijyRg The Elder Kings team is wild. Their mod isn't even out yet, Royal Court isn't even out yet, but they've already recreated the White Gold Tower.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 00:52
|
|
|
MikeC posted:I recently got the expansion pass and started messing with the Norse stuff. Is it just me or does having concubines actively hurt your game? Between the wife and 2 captured concubines, I have like 5 sons and my heir will inherit exactly one county. Not exactly conducive to holding much of anything together. I am ok with some partitioning, its part of the game especially early on but going from King of the Danelaw with 5 personal holdings with 2 jarls as vassals and then instantly going down to 1 county seems like a recipe for game over. You're tribal, go conquer more stuff and hand it out to your sons. And partitioning is actively good, you actually want realm splits in order to generate Renown faster.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 01:07
|
|
|
Marry all your daughters matrilineally to 3rd and 4th sons, unless you really need a powerful ally right now and need to do a normal marriage for one. Have a load of sons and land the ones who don't die in battle, or land one whenever you are over your domain limit. Have the dynasty map bear no resemblance whatsoever to whatever you borders are at the moment. It's a game of dynasties as much as proto-states, so spreading your bloodline over as large a territory as possible strengthens you and gets those crazy dynasty perks. Always Be Breeding.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 01:34
|
|
|
Are you close to death and your wife to old to have kids? Get the Pope to make her go away and marry a 16 year old to pump out some more kids before you shuffle lose the mortal coil. You deserve it.
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 01:52
|
|
|
really looking forward to playing with the expansion this tuesday, think I'm gonna try my "migrate to india as a norseman" game for real this time to see how much I can mess with the new culture system
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 02:03
|
|
|
PittTheElder posted:You're tribal, go conquer more stuff and hand it out to your sons. And partitioning is actively good, you actually want realm splits in order to generate Renown faster. you mean hand out titles to the kids pre-emptively? How does that work with partition?
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 02:35
|
|
|
|
| # ? May 30, 2024 11:54 |
|
|
MikeC posted:you mean hand out titles to the kids pre-emptively? How does that work with partition? If you give them titles like.... equivalent to what they wouldve inherited normally I THINK it'll stop them from auto-inheriting poo poo, so you can like, avoid a lot of title distribution randomness
|
|
#
?
Feb 7, 2022 02:45
|
|
