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signalnoise posted:i'm retroactively annoyed at everyone who ever told me the steam controller trackpads were something like "weird and bad" instead of telling me they could work like trackballs If it makes you feel any better everything else about the controller sucked. Edit: except the grip buttons, those were cool
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Feb 5, 2022 23:34
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QuarkJets posted:it's because we were hoarding all of the steam controllers for ourselves you gullible fool 
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Feb 6, 2022 00:17
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How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ All the Civilization games are terrible. They’re cute for the first half hour or so but then you’re just left with busy work that’s no fun at all. I start to feel so lame when I realize all I’m doing is trying to outsmart AIs that aren’t really playing to win - they’re just role playing their civ. It feels like maybe one decision out of every 1000 decisions actually matters. The last point about decisions mattering is the most important I think. I had the same beef with many tactics rpgs, then Into the Breach came and solved it. I wonder what a ItB equivalent for 4X games would be like (maybe there already is one?)
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Feb 6, 2022 00:52
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is pepsi ok posted:If it makes you feel any better everything else about the controller sucked. it's a fun toy to mess around with but the build quality loving SUCKS
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Feb 6, 2022 00:59
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MrQwerty posted:it's a fun toy to mess around with but the build quality loving SUCKS Eat my loving rear end the steam controller RULES.
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Feb 6, 2022 01:03
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Another problem with the Civ games is they're usually over about half way through, then you're just mashing next to get to the end. I can't think of a civ game where the late game mechanics mattered at all. ItB is a genius game where every turn seems like an intricately setup puzzle of cause and effect. It would be really easy to have it just be complete bullshit that constantly lands you in unwinnable scenarios, but it seems like there's always a way out if you think hard enough. It would probably be harder to pull that off in a larger scope.
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Feb 6, 2022 01:07
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giogadi posted:How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ Have you tried playing Civilization with a steam controller though? I don't know of a ItB equivalent for 4X games but I think the equivalent for RTS games is Tooth and Tail, that game rocks. It was designed as a simplification of RTS concepts, it's so straightforward that playing it with a controller is actually fun and not awkward. The campaign ending is extremely satisfying, too
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Feb 6, 2022 01:29
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It took me a long time to get a controller for my PC but I was first playing Dead Cells with a keyboard and mouse for like a month before I decided to buy one. Oh my god.
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Feb 6, 2022 03:23
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I only play PC games with a laptop that has a touchscreen.
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Feb 6, 2022 03:25
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giogadi posted:How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ i like civ not as like a strategy simulator but as, sim city with less ground-level micro and more global in scope. i just want to grow my cities in a way that feels optimal to me. i've also played plenty of just normal sim city, and hold very strong opinions about which ones are good. civ really isn't that good of a strategy or tactics game, but it's a fun builder  might i recommend an rts. actually maybe you would like xcom or uhh there were some warhammer tactical rpgs too i think that were a weird mix of turn based and real time. i have no interest in playing against human opponents, because they're playing to win. i like playing against AIs because i can just play zen gardens with an rng v i don't keep a backlog. there are games i'm playing, and games i am not playing. sometimes there are games i'd like to play, and i'll plan to but if i don't then so be it; and other times, there are games i haven't even heard of but am immediately pumped for and have to start playing right-now-immediately. be like water Fur20 fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 03:30
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I don't like the term backlog.
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Feb 6, 2022 03:33
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Fur20 posted:
if you like that you might even like the sequel!!!
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Feb 6, 2022 03:40
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I don't remember what it's called though
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Feb 6, 2022 03:41
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Xcom something I think. Xcom.... xcom.... Nope, not remembering either.
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Feb 6, 2022 04:13
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Probably Ycom?
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Feb 6, 2022 04:14
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Devils Affricate posted:Probably Ycom? No, that was what we called exalt when they were just theoretical and weren't known as the exp pinatas.
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Feb 6, 2022 04:24
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Xcum
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Feb 6, 2022 04:30
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QuarkJets posted:It's weird and nonsensical, like making fun of a formula 1 driver for driving a car because commuters also drive cars. And I bet you've used a keyboard and mouse to watch quite a few pornos and never once thought that the experience was worse for people who use a keyboard for work. When I'm watching porno I usually use a joystick, if you know what I mean.
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Feb 6, 2022 04:33
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syntaxfunction posted:I only play PC games with a laptop that has a touchscreen. Touch screen controls can be good but almost always aren't.
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Feb 6, 2022 05:20
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I wish I had kept my Fairchild Channel F so I could hand someone one of these abominations and tell them to play. They are like a loving Bop-It, you can use it like a normal joystick, but also push it down, pull it up and twist to do different things.
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Feb 6, 2022 06:30
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Basically every controller after the Atari 2600 and before the NES was absolutely garbage. For some reason everyone wanted their controller to be a phone and they were all built shoddily.
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Feb 6, 2022 09:06
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galagazombie posted:Basically every controller after the Atari 2600 and before the NES was absolutely garbage. For some reason everyone wanted their controller to be a phone and they were all built shoddily. In Japan, both of these consoles were released in the same year (the NES actually came a few months earlier) 
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Feb 6, 2022 09:20
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giogadi posted:How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ This is how I feel about many 4x games. The first part is all important and micro intensive and everything feels small, every decision feels important. Then late game it’s all homework. Early civ this was really bad. Chariot #1 was crucial. Chariot #10 was just a red shirt. Later when they added unit experience that helped somewhat but not enough. Most 4x games are a study on the trivial many vs vital few and how they are presented/weighed. Too many decisions feel meaningless (tech selections in gal civ for example). There has got to be a game that figures out the way to present decisions without making it feel like a chore. Stellaris is probably the biggest victim of this in the late game. You get a crisis and you either realize you can stomp it but it will take a week, or it’s going to stomp you.
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Feb 6, 2022 09:34
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Betty Wight posted:This is how I feel about many 4x games. The first part is all important and micro intensive and everything feels small, every decision feels important. Then late game it’s all homework. It would be interesting to have a game that became more abstract as the scale grew. First you control individual units, later you deal with larger fronts and in the end you just set some priorities for your generals. I know that this is impossible, because it would mean that you'd need to basically make multiple games in one package and have unique challenges for each, but it's one of those fantasy concepts that's fun to think about. In some ways Spore tried that kind of approach but it ended up as just a collection of mini games. And the RTS part was just bad and you didn't carry over any features of the species you evolved up to that point. I still love the original Civ but I agree with your comments about the end game. You have tons of units and every turn takes ages.
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Feb 6, 2022 10:00
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giogadi posted:How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ I feel like the problem is exactly the opposite. I'd much rather the AIs roleplay their civs more because in reality how things play out is that every single one has a countdown clock to when they'll decide they hate your guts and the only real differentiation is that war-happy civs attack you 50 turns sooner than everyone else, who will then join in because wah wah wah you settled a city on the same side of the planet as them, you won't give away all of your luxuries, and you have the gall to not surrender all of your cities to them because they asked nicely, guess you gotta die now. Really the problem is that they play to win...but often not towards any particular victory type for the first 300 turns or whatever. Then suddenly at the 11th hour somebody will suddenly remember they're supposed to be a science civ and start pumping out spaceship parts.
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Feb 6, 2022 10:59
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Betty Wight posted:This is how I feel about many 4x games. The first part is all important and micro intensive and everything feels small, every decision feels important. Then late game it’s all homework. IMO, 4x games are tuned to be way too long for what they're bringing, but the game would get hammered in media if they made a civ game designed to be like 100 turns long. CivRev was something closer to this ideal and, yeah, it got slammed for being a baby game because it didn't have all the cruft for the role players. Most board games are tuned to end once someone's has time to get an advantage, they don't wait another three hours while everyone else gets dunked on by the person with the advantage. People can talk about wanting comeback mechanics or whatever, but imo, that's just starting a new game, win or lose. Unfortunately, 'narrative' and 'story' has seeped into how these games are designed in a way that is really destructive to their design. Anyway, gently caress king of dragon pass, that linear piece of poo poo. Panzeh fucked around with this message at 11:46 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 11:39
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John Murdoch posted:I feel like the problem is exactly the opposite. I'd much rather the AIs roleplay their civs more because in reality how things play out is that every single one has a countdown clock to when they'll decide they hate your guts and the only real differentiation is that war-happy civs attack you 50 turns sooner than everyone else, who will then join in because wah wah wah you settled a city on the same side of the planet as them, you won't give away all of your luxuries, and you have the gall to not surrender all of your cities to them because they asked nicely, guess you gotta die now. I find the "AI does not play to win, it plays to block player from winning" even more aggravating. Sure lets let the AI Mongols take over half the planet, and at the same time get pissy when player culture bombs one tile, or that border city middle of nowhere which the AI built to block a resource access 200 turns before player could even see that resource on the map. I am also quite certain that Civ3 had a rule that new resources almost always are placed outside human player's countries since you can own half of the planet and 'nope only AI-side of map gets oil and aluminum". Or in older total war games, lets give AI unlimited amount of money and possibility to recruit stacks and stacks of armies out of their rear end. That surely makes a *strategy game* fun, when only the human player has to follow the rules and a strategy.
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Feb 6, 2022 12:04
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Symmetrical games against ai suck. Computers are obviously way stupider than humans at a lot of stuff, and still very alien and different even in the stuff they're good at. It's pretty much always a mistake to make a "single player" mode by just taking the pvp multiplayer and replacing a player with a robot. And yet for some reason "be the one human in a fake multiplayer match" is like the only game mode in a lot of 4X games. RPATDO_LAMD fucked around with this message at 12:26 on Feb 6, 2022 |
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Feb 6, 2022 12:24
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Betty Wight posted:This is how I feel about many 4x games. The first part is all important and micro intensive and everything feels small, every decision feels important. Then late game it’s all homework. Sid Meier specifically noted in interviews that the "one more turn" phenomenon that made Civilization so addicting for people was an accidental creation that came about by having many small goals such that at least one seemed right around the corner from completion.
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Feb 6, 2022 14:07
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This is all sort of making me want to replay civ 3
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Feb 6, 2022 14:19
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Popoto posted:This is all sort of making me want to replay civ 3 Pay them no heed, your majesty 
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Feb 6, 2022 14:23
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WILDTURKEY101 posted:when I was a kid at arcades I liked to put coins in for both the guns and dual wield. I tore up Area 51 like that. this is one of the two optimum arcade shooter strategies. the other is single gun, but you hold your hand over the sensor so you can reload without firing off screen
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Feb 6, 2022 15:05
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giogadi posted:How are we still talking about controllers, Jesus Christ Civilization single player isn't a game, it's a toybox simulation. Like anything that Paradox makes, winning isn't the point
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Feb 6, 2022 15:07
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Betty Wight posted:This is how I feel about many 4x games. The first part is all important and micro intensive and everything feels small, every decision feels important. Then late game it’s all homework. The only 4x game with a good single player balance is Master of Orion 2. none of the other ones get it right
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Feb 6, 2022 15:11
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Rutibex posted:The only 4x game with a good single player balance is Master of Orion 2. none of the other ones get it right Moo1 has better balance and design  E: death to micro!
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Feb 6, 2022 15:28
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Popoto posted:Moo1 has better balance and design Moo1 is interesting because you can actually lose if you just sit around in a way that isn't an AI attacking you, too. You actually need to actively break up big alliance blocs, and the game can end a lot sooner than when you paint the map. The galactic emperor vote is a very good mechanic and it was a cop out when they let you defy it. You lost, hit new game and git gud.
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Feb 6, 2022 15:35
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Popoto posted:Moo1 has better balance and design I just hate SVGA graphics. I love the graphics in Civ 1 and Moo 1 but really hate Civ 2 and Moo 2 graphics. The slightly higher resolution just always looked bad to me. Like 320x200 2D pixel graphics were pure hand made artistry where every pixel was hand placed but 640x480 resolution used shortcuts where it became ugly to me. In the early 2000s graphics evolved to a point where I could accept them again.
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Feb 6, 2022 15:42
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kntfkr posted:I don't like the term backlog. I prefer the term backforest.
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Feb 6, 2022 16:09
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My hang up with 4X games is the bizarre concept that I’m in charge of this growing expanding empire - but I can only make 1 unit at a time. I really don’t get why all 4X limit you like this - especially when a single unit can cost several turns to produce in the beginning. I can understand starting small and working up to bigger/better tech - but one unit at a time is lame AF and it’s in every 4X game. Wouldn’t the barracks ‘creating’ soldiers have nothing to do with building other things in my empire?
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Feb 6, 2022 16:10
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Cracker King posted:My hang up with 4X games is the bizarre concept that I’m in charge of this growing expanding empire - but I can only make 1 unit at a time. Have you tried Sins of a Solar Empire? That game is realtime instead of turn-based, so your output is less abstracted and although I don't remember if you can build more than one thing at a time on a planet (I don't think you can) if you have a shitload of output you can crank ships out fast as hell
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Feb 6, 2022 16:11
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