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Ras Het posted:I've got a week in April to get from Zürich to Copenhagen by train and go wherever in between. No car, but I'd like to get some small towns & hiking in there. Right now my only idea is Besancon because I love Stendhal's Red & Black which is set there, interested in any suggestions. There is a lot to do between Zürich and Copenhagen! What places have you already been to? Besançon is a cute little city but I'm not sure if it really is interesting enough to spend lots of time there instead of a bigger destination such as the Alps, unless you already made a shortlist of everything you'd want to see there?
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Feb 3, 2022 11:49
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An alternative would be to go up along the French/German border (the ICE can take you from Zürich via Basel, Freiburg etc. to Frankfurt, from where you could go to Hamburg and then take either the slow option via Jylland, or the ICE via Lübeck and ferry to Copenhagen). This would naturally lead you through Freiburg (which is pretty and good for half a day or a day), open Colmar and Strasbourg as stops, and you could hike in the Schwarzwald. If you base yourself in Freiburg for more than a day, all of these options are easy day trips doable via public transport. On your way up, you could then either spend a bit of time in Frankfurt or Hamburg, or take a detour somewhere (Cologne perhaps?), or go straight up, and spend a night or so in Lübeck. If you take a slower train via Jylland, you could instead also visit Aarhus.
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Feb 3, 2022 12:24
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Yeah basically Denmark & Hamburg are just boring stopovers, and I'm really trying to decide whether to do a few places in SW Germany or E France. I speak neither and neither area is familiar to me so it's pretty equal. The French side is a bit more interesting culturally but Freiburg indeed looks like the easiest base for some nice hikes in Schwarzwald. But I feel like in early April the weather can be basically anything, especially in the Alps, so idk how much to focus my plans on outdoor stuff
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Feb 3, 2022 12:56
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I find bescancon a very pleasant city, but there's not that much to do, it's just pretty good at being a city.
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Feb 3, 2022 14:04
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Hollow Talk posted:An alternative would be to go up along the French/German border (the ICE can take you from Zürich via Basel, Freiburg etc. to Frankfurt, from where you could go to Hamburg and then take either the slow option via Jylland, or the ICE via Lübeck and ferry to Copenhagen). Yeah going up the Rhine seems like the nicest option to me, and then from Dusseldorf you can just high tail it to Hamburg and then Copenhagen. Alsace is really nice, especially the eastern side of the Vosges like around Kayserberg, Riquewehr, Ribeauville ("most beautiful village in France") and castles like Haut Konigsberg. Might be kind of a PITA to get to some of those places without a car, but by public transport you can easily do Colmar and Strasbourg and from Colmar you could do a daytrip to Kayserberg etc if you wanted, although on your schedule I guess you don't have that much time. The Mittelrhein is also lovely, which runs pretty much between Wiesbaden and Bonn. Neither Wiesbaden or Bonn is quite in the Mittelrhein, but they're like just on the doorstep of it. The Moselle between Trier and Koblenz is also really nice although not quite as on your route so I'd go for Mittelrhein over it. April is a little early but it should be nice enough and for sure everything is open by Easter; not sure if everything opens earlier (e.g. mid-March), like Burg Eltz or whatever. I'd also agree yeah, April is not really a good time to spend in the hills of the Black Forest or Vosges or whatever. Maybe if you're really lucky with the weather you can adapt last minute, but I wouldn't plan a trip around it in that season. Snow will almost certainly be 100% gone in the Black Forest in April, even by the first of April.
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Feb 3, 2022 16:20
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Thanks a bunch, that's a lot to consider. Colmar looks nice and I hadn't thought about it before. I need to pick a three-night stay somewhere because I've got a bunch of ferries and night trains and one night stays before in the trip, and I need to chill out a bit at some point. Maybe I'll just flip a coin between Colmar & Freiburg and focus on the Rhine
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Feb 3, 2022 20:30
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optimistically, my wife and I are currently entertaining the idea of taking a train from Oslo to Vienna this summer. are there any scandigoons with that kind of experience in here? like, realistically, what would the actual travel time be like? and how easy is it in practice? the online plans I've seen says the trip will take a combined 19,5 hours or so from Gothenburg, but that, I assume, is if, and only if, you get to immediately hop from one train to the other in Copenhagen and Hamburg without delay.
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Feb 6, 2022 14:51
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Always count on the ICE trains being significantly delayed in Germany, because they are. If you do have close transfer times, make sure there is a backup option (they'll let you use your ticket on another train at least). I did go by train from Groningen via Bremen to Vienna, largely through Germany, and I think it took about 13-14 hours. I had one transfer between two ICEs in Würzburg, but I took more than an hour for it. I was able to have lunch in the city in that time, there were no delays. But I would guess that in over half of such trips there are delays of 15 minutes or more and they easily go up to an hour too. German train punctuality is severely overrated at least for the high speed trains.
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Feb 6, 2022 15:30
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Entropist posted:Always count on the ICE trains being significantly delayed in Germany, because they are. If you do have close transfer times, make sure there is a backup option (they'll let you use your ticket on another train at least). Doubling-down on this. Don't believe poo poo about your German train schedule. If you get anywhere on time with them, you're lucky. Look at the next connections after yours that could also get you to your destination, and just back-pocket the info somewhere. Just in case.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:20
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lol thanks. this transnational train thing isn't quite as idyllic as one could imagine apparently the norwegian ticket planner was extremely lampshady wrt transfers as well, at bahn.de the majority of trips between gothenburg and wienna has up to ten goddamn transfers, some as late as 3 at night. there's a high probability of us caving and just going for a plane instead 
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Feb 6, 2022 17:24
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ulvir posted:optimistically, my wife and I are currently entertaining the idea of taking a train from Oslo to Vienna this summer. are there any scandigoons with that kind of experience in here? like, realistically, what would the actual travel time be like? and how easy is it in practice? the online plans I've seen says the trip will take a combined 19,5 hours or so from Gothenburg, but that, I assume, is if, and only if, you get to immediately hop from one train to the other in Copenhagen and Hamburg without delay. Best resource by far is this website: https://www.seat61.com/international-trains/trains-from-Oslo.htm Oslo to Vienna sounds tricky tbh. If you make it a slower journey with some nice stopovers it could be fun but would require the right mindset. Seat61 suggests Oslo -> Copenhagen then has a few options including a night train.
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Feb 6, 2022 17:38
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Railplanner and the DB app give you all necessary information except prices. There should be a Nightjet from Hamburg to Vienna so that's pretty simple. You'd only need to stay overnight in CPH
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Feb 6, 2022 17:42
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ulvir posted:apparently the norwegian ticket planner was extremely lampshady wrt transfers as well, at bahn.de the majority of trips between gothenburg and wienna has up to ten goddamn transfers, some as late as 3 at night. there's a high probability of us caving and just going for a plane instead bahn.de is quite comprehensive, it knows trains everywhere even if it doesn't know the prices. Do keep in mind that it will always try to find a route, even in the middle of the night, without considering the possibility of an overnight. So you will get things like 2 hour transfers between a bunch of slow local trains at 3am because there is nothing else running at night, while there would probably be more sensible options. And indeed, night trains are making a comeback and they are awesome, so probably your best option is to find a useful one on the route and try to plan around that. Basically you pay the price of a hotel but it also moves to your destination.
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Feb 6, 2022 18:47
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So knowing that a bunch of stuff is still up in the air, it looks like me and my lady are going to keep our flight in to Amsterdam because it's too expensive to do anything else at all. We are looking at then taking a trip into the UK and are just wondering if there are any restrictions or things to be aware of if we head from The Netherlands to the UK?
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Feb 8, 2022 19:54
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MEIN RAVEN posted:So knowing that a bunch of stuff is still up in the air, it looks like me and my lady are going to keep our flight in to Amsterdam because it's too expensive to do anything else at all. We are looking at then taking a trip into the UK and are just wondering if there are any restrictions or things to be aware of if we head from The Netherlands to the UK? The UK is not in Schengen so it has completely separate visa arrangements. It's also not in the EU so it's completely doing its own thing regarding entering the country during covid. Find out what the UK's visa arrangements are for your country of origin, make sure to get your papers ready way ahead of time, and go read whatever covid info the UK government has put up online. E: Looks like you have to fill in something called a "passenger location form" up to 48 hours before you enter the UK. Carbon dioxide fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 20:01
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I’d like to plan a trip between Zurich and Zermatt for this summer, about 10 days, and would like it to include as much hiking/backpacking as possible. I’ve planned Europe trips but not any that focus mostly on being in nature and using my legs/trains as primary transportation. Are there online communities or sites where I can seek out itineraries that could help me lay out the framework? I’m having trouble getting started.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:33
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Rolo posted:I’d like to plan a trip between Zurich and Zermatt for this summer, about 10 days, and would like it to include as much hiking/backpacking as possible. I’ve planned Europe trips but not any that focus mostly on being in nature and using my legs/trains as primary transportation. First: what season? That changes a LOT of what routes are possible. For a forum: Camp to Camp, maybe? Nope, looks like the English part of that forum is super dead - it's good in French though if you speak French. You should also download the Swiss hiking route map, called "SwitzerlandMobility" ( https://www.schweizmobil.ch/en/switzerlandmobility-app-e.html ) which shows all hiking routes in the country. Routes are very well signed on the ground as well. Normal hiking routes have a red band between two white bands, "Alpine" routes have a blue band between two white bands. Alpine routes can be difficult and dangerous if you're not sure of your footing or if conditions are bad. Routes that don't have either are just walks ( e.g.  . The website that's from actually has a pretty good summary of the info: https://livingingeneva.wordpress.com/2013/08/10/swiss-hiking-trails-an-overview/ . I would just use that to plan things out. There are public transit routes literally everywhere in Switzerland so if there's a leg you want to skip, then that can be easily done.If you want to start in Zurich, then I would walk along the "Planetweg" which goes up Uetliberg and then follow the ridge past Felsenegg towards Albispass, then either take the bus to Luzern or continue to the Bürglen peak. I'd then skip quite a bit and go towards Melchsee Frutt and do the hike over there to the Bern Oberland to go in from Melchsee-Frutt to Hasliberg, or if you're short on time then I'd go directly to the high Alps. There are VERY few mountain passes that you can go from the Bern Oberland to Valais that don't follow the road, barring technical skills. There's a pass way east near Kandersteg at Lötschenpass or Gemmipass and another near Lenk at Rawilpass that go to Valais, but otherwise you have to go through Grimselpass which is not (IMHO) as nice for hiking since it's a major road. Alternately you can do a pass way east of the road, for instance at Elm at Panixerpass, which is one of the routes Napoleon used. You'd then have to follow the road to Andermatt and then Obergoms and it's way out of your way though, so IMHO I'd recommend either the road at Grimselpass, or Lenk or Kandersteg. If you have any specific questions let me know, I've hiked or driven pretty much every major pass in central Switzerland except not Lötschen pass.
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Feb 13, 2022 18:59
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Fantastic. As for season, I'm thinking mid June. I'm not planning to get stuck outside but I'd like to not die if that happens as I'll be going solo.
Rolo fucked around with this message at 19:06 on Feb 13, 2022 |
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Feb 13, 2022 19:04
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Rolo posted:Fantastic. As for season, I'm thinking mid June. I'm not planning to get stuck outside but I'd like to not die if that happens as I'll be going solo. TLDR: Don't go in mid-June. Put it off at least until early July; mid June is really too early for a lot of routes to do safely. In mid-June, anything above ~2200m will still be covered in snow unless it's north facing and exposed. Even a single spot on a hike that is covered in snow in a bad spot (like a river crossing) can be very dangerous even if 99% of the hike has melted snow. The other thing to keep in mind is that quite frequently fixed mountain torrent crossings are NOT SET UP that early in the season. Keep in mind that the worst place to have snow is also most likely the place that DOES have snow later in the season, as these tend to be in the narrow canyons where you have to cross torrents, and these will be the last thing that the route keepers set up. Unfortunately it is nearly impossible to find out if torrent crossings are (a) permanent or (b) if they are seasonal, when are they established. The high road passes, like Grimsel pass, are not necessarily open by mid-June although they usually are. Some lifts are also not open until early July, which has good sides (way fewer hikers) and bad sides (no fast way out in case you're exhausted/cold/miserable, and no supplied huts on the route if the lifts aren't active). You can wild camp most places in Switzerland above ~1800m. Don't poo poo everywhere. Here are the huts run by the SAC, many open in June and almost all the rest all open by early July: https://www.sac-cas.ch/en/huts-and-tours/sac-route-portal/?type=hut&sortField=display_name You might want to actually pay for the Swiss Mobility app too - otherwise if not, make sure to take screenshots of the route because they cripple the free version of the app intentionally and make it not load if you're not connected to the Internet (it won't let you cache, at all). If you do go in the off season (i.e. mid June), make sure to have microspikes / crampons and go with good hiking poles too, for in case you cross an ice patch. ——— rest of the post with a potential itinerary: So let's see, one possible route/itinerary: • Day 1: Zurich to Luzern: Hiking Trail #47: Start in Zurich, go up Uetliberg from the "Triemlispital" bus stop. Walk as far along that as you think you can do in one day; it's not much vertical (maybe 600m for the full day, and that almost entirely in the first hour) but a significant walk anyway. I suggest "skipping" some here as the walk/hike from e.g. Hausen am Albis to Zug is not going to be particularly interesting, nor is the walk from Zug to Luzern; both are long and by Swiss standards, very dull. Tent camping will be illegal this day; stay in a hotel somewhere. • Day 2: If you're very fit and want to bivouac, then go from Stans to Stanserhorn; this is about 1400m vertical gain, it doesn't have a trail # but you can see it obviously on the SwissMobility app and it's easy to follow - just very steep (not dangerous, just tiring). Continue along the hiking paths #88/57 (which go together here) and camp when you get tired, which will probably be not long after Stanserhorn. Alternately if you aren't crazy fit, then talk the lift to Stanserhorn and follow the #88/57 from there. The Stanserhorn lift opens early as it's a very popular tourist site. If you're not crazy fit, then take a train/bus to Stöckalp and go to the Day 3 suggestion already. • Day 3: Go from wherever you stopped the day before until you get to Melchsee-Frutt; stay in a hotel there. This day goes up and down a lot, not sure how many cumulative meters that is but it'll be a lot even though it never goes up or down by more than like 400. • Day 4: Take hiking route 88 to hiking route 1, go over to Hasliberg then to Meiringen. • Day 5: Hike up route #40 to Grimselpass. IMHO this is a mediocre hike since it follows close to the road, personally I would take the bus to Grimselpass if it's running, or as far up the route as I could go if it's not yet running. It looks like from Räterichsbodensee the hike starts to get nice as it diverges from the road there. (I've driven this area, never hiked it.) Depending on where you started, continue Route #40 as long as is reasonable for your fitness. Stop somewhere like at the Grimsel hospiz or slightly further, the Grimselpass hotel. • Day 6: Continute route #40 to Ulrichen, then IMHO take the bus/train down to Stalden. Spend the night there, most likely. • Day 7: If you go late enough in the year, then hike up to Grächen and do hiking route #27 to Zermatt. This will be more than one day as it is a LOT of ascent, so stop whenever is appropriate for your fitness. Note: mid-June will 100% be way too early for this route which regularly goes above 2500m. • Day 8-9-10: Do the famous hikes in Zermatt which you can find a billion guides about online or in the tourist information center. They are famous and they are worth it. That's just one idea I had while going through the map, how far the distances are and how realistic it is to do this 10 days in a row depends totally on your fitness. I could do any one of these days but probably couldn't keep this pace up for more than like 3 days, for instance. Mid-June is really early to reiterate as I look at this route, and - not trying to be a dick - but since you suggested mid June I'm guessing that you don't have a ton of experience with higher mountains or you wouldn't have suggested hiking to Zermatt at that time of year. (Alternately, you have a poo poo ton of experience and can do whatever and don't GAF about crossing torrents without fixed bridges). I'd say like 90% of the time on this route - or any similar route - you will have cell phone signal, but keep a good eye on weather forecasts especially if you're bivouacing. If the weather forecast predicts a storm, then hike down ASAP and do not camp out if any significant weather is even remotely predicted. Use meteosuisse.ch for that info. Go to "Aperçu de la meteo" and then down to "Prévisions locales" and put in the name of the closest village. I'm not sure if there's a more accurate way to get mountaintop weather forecasts, except for mountaintops which have ski resorts like Melchsee Frutt. It sounds like you are going solo, so take safety super seriously and tell someone exactly what route you're going on. I've known a couple people who died doing standard hiking routes when weather suddenly turned and they didn't take care in time. I think things to keep in mind are: (a) hiking from Albishorn to Luzern is pretty dull so you'll want to take a bus/train, and (b) hiking over the main Bernese mountain range is not feasible in mid-June except for Grimselpass, and (c) even if you go later in the season it's still hard to cross except at Grimselpass and two passes much further west; and (d) mid-June is still too early for a lot of the hikes to or around Zermatt.
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Feb 13, 2022 22:00
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You’re awesome. This is really helping me gather a list of things to research deeper. It’s so hard in the beginning when everything is an unknown unknown. As for the season, I’m flexible and plane tickets for mid July aren’t worse in comparison. The thing pushing me to June was impatience, so if waiting another 3 weeks for a better experience is what it takes then I’m gonna wait.
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Feb 13, 2022 22:09
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Rolo posted:You’re awesome. This is really helping me gather a list of things to research deeper. It’s so hard in the beginning when everything is an unknown unknown. Yeah I would definitely push it back until early July. By first week of July you can be pretty sure that almost every seasonal crossing is set up, the seasonal trail markers will all be in place, almost every SAC hut will be open, almost every lift will be running, and most routes will be safe to do up to about 2400m and possible to do up to about 2600m with hiking poles and (ideally but not necessarily) microspikes. The higher up snow is usually less of a safety issue as there aren't really any torrents or snow bridges to cross above about 2200m; snow at lower elevations is much more dangerous. Crossing a snowfield, the worst that happens is you get soaking legs, crossing a snowbridge above a torrent, that can be much worse. This can cause real safety issues too, like if you're 4 hours into a hike and there's a small snowbridge above a torrent to cross - you don't want to go back so you will feel pressured to try the bridge, potentially with bad consequences (especially for a solo hiker). You can do really nice hikes in the shoulder off season and you have everything to yourself, but I'd really only do it if I already knew the route. I almost got my wife killed crossing a steep snowfield in early June when we tried the Rawilpass and she lost her footing and slid down several meters on a very steep slope, and fortunately caught herself by using the shoe/handholds that I had hacked out when going first. I have heard many similar stories for people doing early season hikes. Would not recommend. Anyway if you have something more specific in mind, or if you know exactly what your fitness level is (e.g. how many km distance / vertical can you do in a day, how many could you do in back-to-back days, etc) then post it here and I can suggest some specific itineraries depending on whether or not you'd want to bring a tent and camp, or only stay in huts/hotels. Of course, everything might have to change last minute depending on weather so keep flexible - which in Switzerland is fortunately very easy to do, as public transport runs absolutely everywhere. I guess basically: (0) Have you done any solo multiday hikes? (If not, this is a good place to start.) (1) Do you want to do lower pre-alpine hiking like near Zurich? (I would recommend yes to do the Uetliberg and Planetweg hike to Albispass; good warmup and it's fairly nice scenery, and doubly recommend it if you will be jetlagged.) (2) How much do you want to do a continuous hike for bragging rights, versus skipping "boring" parts by taking public transit? (3) How hard do you want it to be, how isolated do you want to be? (4) Are there any "must see" stops*? (5) Do you want to bring a tent at all and camp, or do you want to do the entire thing staying in huts and hotels**? (6) How much time do you want in Zermatt at the end? *Note that the famous area of the Bern highlands near Jungfrau is absolutely impassible; there is no way across between Kandersteg and Grimsel pass, either by foot or by public transit. **Also be aware that for huts, they need to be booked in advance, especially on weekends. If you go before mid-July then it's a bit easier as school vacation has not yet started, but don't expect to get a spot if you show up on the day of. Hotel rooms will be fine to find, just be aware that it will be at least US$100/night for a basic room. Here are some photos I've taken at high altitude at that season - here is from Arosa, June 24, 2021:  This is west-facing at around 2550m elevation with a lot of sun exposure. You can see that a route keeper trampled down the route already and placed rocks for better traction, but if that was a virgin snowfield that would be dangerous to cross without microspikes and poles. It is steeper than it looks in the photograph - you would die if you fell down it and couldn't catch yourself immediately. It's not really snow - that is rock hard and super slippery ice in this season.  That's what I mean by "fixed points not there" -- often they are just lying down, but now you can't tell which direction to go. Temporary torrent bridges will also often be nearby - but not set in place, and too heavy to move yourself. Small markers on the route (little wooden poles) are also often not set up yet by so early in the season - June 24th. This doesn't really matter, but you just need to know how to read terrain and follow the Swiss Mobility app.  This was the "route back" on the way to Arosa, going down to about 2250m (the lake is Urdensee, at 2249m), and it faces northwest. You can still see there's a lot of snow - nothing particularly dangerous here but e.g. at the top right you see the trail crosses snow patches, so you'd need poles and ideally microspikes.  This is the exact same spot shown in the photo above - but now we're down in the valley. PIZOL, July 5-6, 2019  This is our camp site on July 5, at the Schottensee. Elevation 2335m. It faces due west - you see there is still a ton of snow and ice even for an exposed, west facing spot in early July.  This is an ice bridge - this is July 6. While this particular one is not especially dangerous to cross, it would be super dangerous for a solo person - you fall in there, there's no cell reception and if your ankle is broken you'd have a loving hard time getting out, and no one is walking by. We saw literally not a single other person that entire day. You wouldn't die crossing that particular bridge if it collapsed, but it would be a bad time. Yes the photos are beautiful and you'll have an awesome time. But, the mountains really don't gently caress around, so don't play loose with safety, especially if you're going early in the season when there are more dangers, fewer hikers, and you're solo. Mountaineering is the #1 cause of death for people I know or have known under like 70 years old. Most of them are real professionals doing gnarly poo poo, but I've personally known a couple people who died during "mundane" hikes like the ones I showed in these photographs. Saladman fucked around with this message at 12:35 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 12:10
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These are the questions I've been asking myself so here we go: (0) Have you done any solo multiday hikes? (If not, this is a good place to start.) I've done solo 2 day hikes in western NC, the worst conditions in late Fall. Temps down to the 20's F and moisture but I haven't camped on top of snow yet. I have hiking experience with and without crampons/poles on packed ice out west in Wyoming and Colorado so I know to bring those things. I've done days of 15 miles or so above 10k' but this has always included a long car ride either in or out. I've also gotten lighter gear since. (1) Do you want to do lower pre-alpine hiking like near Zurich? (I would recommend yes to do the Uetliberg and Planetweg hike to Albispass; good warmup and it's fairly nice scenery, and doubly recommend it if you will be jetlagged.) Yes. I'd like to find some day hikes in Zurich while spending the nights in civilization. I've never been but I've always wanted to go, so I'll be tourist-ing the first couple nights. I travel for work so I'm used to how jet-lag affects me and 48hrs is usually when I start feeling fine if I'm in a nice hotel bed. I'm open to making this a 12-14 day trip if It helps with the lag and seeing the city a bit. I also plan to get back the day before my flight to be safe, so there will be another night on the tail end. (2) How much do you want to do a continuous hike for bragging rights, versus skipping "boring" parts by taking public transit? I'm fine mixing in public transit if it lets me stop and smell the flowers along the way. (3) How hard do you want it to be, how isolated do you want to be? If I'm camping I'd like to not see too many others, but I think I answered this a little in #1. I have experience hiking above 10k' and going up stairs with a pack that weighs way too much but I don't want to completely hate myself lol. If you have to really push yourself for some solitude then I'd be ok making friends. (4) Are there any "must see" stops*? Just Zurich and the Matterhorn. It's at the top of my "I just want to stop and stare at this mountain" mountain list. Any and all chill villages and beautiful peaks are welcome. The more times I do that thing where you stop, take a deep breath and take in the view while silent the better. (5) Do you want to bring a tent at all and camp, or do you want to do the entire thing staying in huts and hotels**? answered already I think. I'm ok wild camping but not more than 1 night between huts and hotels. (Do huts sell food?) (6) How much time do you want in Zermatt at the end? Two full days would be nice. Then a day to ensure I get back to Zurich to relax for a night before the flight home.
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Feb 14, 2022 16:20
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Sounds good, you have some experience walking on ice so I wouldn't worry about it much in early July. Your fitness sounds like it's good so there's nothing really else to keep in mind besides things like the collapsing snowbridge in the photo I showed ^above^. I don't think there was any way around it and ~7 hours into a 11 hour hike we weren't going back either. It wasn't that deep but I was glad to have the drone to check it out, but the ~3 meter drop would have been extremely unpleasant, even though we would have lived. I've only crossed situations like that four or five times, but two of those times would have potentially been very dangerous if it had collapsed. Camping is allowed but it's surprisingly pretty uncommon and if you camp at sunset and get up at sunrise you won't bother anyone so long as you're reasonably off-trail (you don't have to hide though). Almost everyone is doing daytrips or staying at huts. I've literally never come across a tent, and maybe 1% of people I see hiking have obvious tents on their bags. Just make sure to poo poo far away from the trail or where people would stop to eat. Huts are pretty much all staffed and sell food. Usually that is "hot meals" but occasionally they sell food you can take away like snack bars. It will always be expensive. Usually when you reserve the room you tell them if you want to eat or not, but I suspect that if you show up and they DO have space, they will have food too, so long as you're there early enough (~5-6pm). I've never not reserved though. They will almost certainly not take credit card at the huts, except the modern ones at tourist sites connected to lifts. Take cash. The best dayhike in Zurich is going from the Triemli hospital up Uetliberg (~45-60 min) and then Planetweg until you get bored and go back. The hike up Zurichberg sucks (no views). The best view point of the city is on Käferberg, specifically near the restaurant Die Waid. I don't know how to search posts here but if you look back in the past 5 pages I wrote a long writeup on Zurich pretty recently, so just search for Zurich and you should find it pretty quickly (EDIT: it's on page 344, check that out for suggestions... although looks like it's more "for living in" rather than "for visiting" and it's a "winter" post rather than "summer" post which dramatically changes my recommendations for Zurich). Zurich is my favorite city that I've ever lived in, by a mile. I left recently and really miss it. It has no "must sees" really, but it's a great place. There are no other real hikes in or near Zurich really. There's the Zurich Oberland like at Hornli but it's pretty far and it's not spectacular. Rolo posted:(3) How hard do you want it to be, how isolated do you want to be? Swiss people don't really 'make friends' with strangers. If anyone talks to you, it will either be to ask you to take a photo of them, or it will be a tourist or someone that moved recently to Switzerland and hasn't been Swissified yet. I am always taken aback when strangers speak to me when I go to the US. Mayyybe that will change if you're by yourself at a mountain hut, but I doubt it. I think I might have never exchanged more than 20 words with someone I ran into while hiking. If you are outgoing you can talk to other people certainly, just try to take social cues if they don't want to keep talking to you. Some people also might be fine with you invading their private space, but they definitely won't come to you first. I'll think of something and reply here in a couple days. I've always kind of wanted to do something like that, but in the end have just done a bunch of weekend trips as I don't want to take a week off work and have it be poo poo weather and then have to plan something else last minute. Saladman fucked around with this message at 18:07 on Feb 14, 2022 |
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Feb 14, 2022 17:58
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If it's possible and common to not camp then I'll probably just save the tent space in my pack. Is bedding provided at a hut if I reserve or should I bring a pad and bag? Also I misused the word "crampons" earlier. I use microspikes, not full blown mountaineering crampons. Am I good with just those in July or do I need something I could walk up a telephone poll with? Getting kinda stoked here as I learn more  . I really appreciate your help.
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Feb 14, 2022 18:38
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Rolo posted:If it's possible and common to not camp then I'll probably just save the tent space in my pack. Is bedding provided at a hut if I reserve or should I bring a pad and bag? Also I misused the word "crampons" earlier. I use microspikes, not full blown mountaineering crampons. Am I good with just those in July or do I need something I could walk up a telephone poll with? Usually you need to bring a sleeping bag, it depends on how high-end the hut is. Mattress and pillow are there. Yeah microspikes are fine. You won't need them in July but better safe than sorry for a single day hike, but I wasn't really thinking in terms of 10 days of hiking where you might want them like... twice. . You could also just go with two hiking poles, depends on how much you want to minimize your weight.
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Feb 14, 2022 19:01
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I don't have much to add on top of Saladman's comprehensive advice except maybe think about downloading the Twint app, it's the Swiss digital payment service (you scan a QR code or enter a phone number to send money). It links directly with all Swiss banks but there's also a prepaid version that you might be able to use: https://www.twint.ch/en/faq/how-do-i-register-in-the-twint-prepaid-app/?audience=private_customer You'll probably come across some honesty boxes with cheese and dried sausages in the Alps in the Berner Oberland and I've seen more than a few with Twint QR codes on them so I imagine they might take Twint in the mountain huts too. If you prefer cash then all of this is moot. Plus I just wanted to repost this photo I took of the Matterhorn on the 5 lakes walk a few years back. It was seriously one of the nicest walks we've done anywhere: 
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Feb 15, 2022 10:29
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greazeball posted:I don't have much to add on top of Saladman's comprehensive advice except maybe think about downloading the Twint app, it's the Swiss digital payment service (you scan a QR code or enter a phone number to send money). It links directly with all Swiss banks but there's also a prepaid version that you might be able to use: https://www.twint.ch/en/faq/how-do-i-register-in-the-twint-prepaid-app/?audience=private_customer You'll probably come across some honesty boxes with cheese and dried sausages in the Alps in the Berner Oberland and I've seen more than a few with Twint QR codes on them so I imagine they might take Twint in the mountain huts too. If you prefer cash then all of this is moot. Oh that's awesome, I was going to suggest Twint but I thought you had to have a Swiss bank account to use it. Yeah every mountain hut and many of the hofladens accept Twint now. The hofladen concept doesn't really translate ("farm shop" isn't quite right) but essentially they're boxes, refrigerators, or even full rooms set up in the countryside that sell local products on an honor system, and are thus open 24/7. You can almost provision yourself just by the ones you pass in the countryside, assuming you can subsist on nothing but honey, sausage, mountain cheese, and occasionally sodas and beer. Often they even have the cash box fully accessible and you can take your own change, although more frequently the cash box is locked and deposit-only. I wouldn't count on seeing them though, sometimes there are hofladen deserts and sometimes you pass a ton of them. They're definitely not something I'd expect to come across much or at all in other countries, especially the ones that have liquor which are 100% not legal but then again, the Swiss countryside is, culturally, like if Montana and rural Texas had a baby.
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Feb 15, 2022 10:57
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One day I'm going to find the flyer I got from the absinthe distillery I toured with friends that marked something like 75 spots around forests in the Jura where you could find bottles of absinthe in tree stumps and poo poo. I was told it was all on the honour system and each bottle had a phone number you should call if you finished it off so the distiller could come and replace it. All of my quick google searches today unfortunately just come up with walks plus distillery tours.
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Feb 15, 2022 12:33
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Saladman posted:
Out of curiosity, what is the actual ice bridge on that photograph? I can't even grasp the size - this could've been taken with a drone or a microscope, as far as my layman, non-mountaineering eyes are concerned. Doctor Malaver fucked around with this message at 16:58 on Feb 16, 2022 |
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Feb 16, 2022 16:55
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Doctor Malaver posted:Out of curiosity, what is the actual ice bridge on that photograph? I can't even grasp the size - this could've been taken with a drone or a microscope, as far as my layman, non-mountaineering eyes are concerned. The two black lines directly left of the collapsed part are me and my wife. It was taken at around 8am maybe two hours after sunrise and I’d guess our shadows are around 2m long - it looks a little taller than I would be lying down. I could open in photoshop but I’d estimate just by eye that the photo scale is around 50 meters from top to bottom. I can’t really tell the scale of how deep the hole is from this photo but I remember it being about 3-4m as I flew the drone to check the depth and estimate if there was anywhere safer to cross. Iirc there was another collapsed part just left off frame so we went just in the middle of the two holes. Yeah, it sure does look abstract without knowing the context. Saladman fucked around with this message at 18:47 on Feb 16, 2022 |
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Feb 16, 2022 17:05
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Thanks, very interesting.
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Feb 16, 2022 17:32
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Hey Saladman, one more quick one before I start committing to Zurich flight times, are there any local holidays or anything that would make me go “oh no why did I come on THIS day?!” As of this moment I’m planning 12 days, starting around July 14, give or take 2 days on either end based on prices at the moment of purchase. Hoping to have it booked this week. You’ve been totally awesome by the way. Rolo fucked around with this message at 17:38 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 17:36
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Rolo posted:Hey Saladman, one more quick one before I start committing to Zurich flight times, are there any local holidays or anything that would make me go “oh no why did I come on THIS day?!” Not really. The last day of K-12 schooling is July 15th in Zurich, which varies by a week or so in the other cantons and basically all of the rest of Europe. University ends a little earlier. The only national holidays in Switzerland in summer are National Day which is the 1st of August. In practical terms, this means that mountain huts are going to be more full, not really because of families but because everyone in Europe takes off from mid-July to late August so you'll see a lot of people in their mid to late 20s in the mountain huts from all over Europe at that time. So you'd either want to call in advance to make sure that your target hut has a place to stay, or come up with an alternative--either camping, or taking the gondola down to the valley to stay in a normal hotel. The majority of those huts are either directly at, or no more than half an hour walk from, a public lift, since they have to supply it, but sometimes they're on a mountain track road and are resupplied only by private car. You'll probably have good odds if you call the night previous, but the longer in advance you can plan the better as you will occasionally get groups who book out the entire hut for parties, which is something that I've done a handful of times. You can usually (always?) camp nearby if they are full in terms of beds, but I guess ideally you'd want to avoid lugging around a tent for 12 days that you only need as a contingency plan. But even in July, your actual hiking route is unlikely to encounter any significant number of people if you do a route that isn't highlighted on Instagram. So just take a look for like "top 10 hikes in Switzerland" and avoid those areas, as they will be packed in July. It's usually not toooo bad if it's a difficult hike, like the 5 Lake Walk at Pizol (not near your route), but "top 10 Swiss hikes" that are relatively easy hikes like Oeschinensee will look basically like Disneyland if you visit it on a nice weather day in July or August. Those "top 10 hikes" are more like "these 10 hikes that I saw someone else post, who saw someone else post" and they are far, far, far from being uniquely beautiful. The absolutely unknown mountain lakes like Iffigsee are just as nice as Oeschinensee, and they will have 3 people there per day instead of quite literally 3000. I wouldn't bother with bringing the microspikes given your new dates btw, unless you want to do a route that spends significant time going over like 2800m. Snowpack has also been significantly less this year and I expect it will melt way, way earlier than usual; we're already in solid mid-spring in the lowlands, about 4 weeks earlier than normal. Saladman fucked around with this message at 20:03 on Feb 22, 2022 |
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Feb 22, 2022 20:01
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Fantastic. Thanks again. I’ve kinda always wanted an excuse to splurge on an ultralight-ish tent and may use this as an excuse. Same for an ice axe but it sounds like I definitely won’t need that yet… someday though 
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Feb 22, 2022 21:02
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BTW I went with three nights in Sélestat and three nights in Oberwesel for my Rhine trip. I'm mostly just going to hike, hence the towns no one has heard of, but if anyone has any must sees to tell me, do go ahead. Saladman's stuff about the prettiest villages in France already noted, that kinda sold Sélestat to me
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Feb 22, 2022 21:31
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Ras Het posted:BTW I went with three nights in Sélestat and three nights in Oberwesel for my Rhine trip. I'm mostly just going to hike, hence the towns no one has heard of, but if anyone has any must sees to tell me, do go ahead. Saladman's stuff about the prettiest villages in France already noted, that kinda sold Sélestat to me I probably already wrote this, but Ribeauvillé is gorgeous and I think was voted "most beautiful village in France" at some point. It is also surprisingly large for a perfectly maintained 1500s-style village. Hiking up to Haut Konigsberg is also worth it, even if you don't go in (but if you like castles, you definitely should go in), as it has a great view over the whole Rhine valley, which is presumably why they built a massive castle there. I've been over most of the middle Rhine within the last couple years on 2 or 3 long weekend trips too. The youth hostel at Bacharach (Chateau Stahleck) is really neat and has a great view, definitely worth a walk up and a bretzel stop. There are a million castles to check out, of which the most famous is probably Marksburg, but there are so many castles that at least when I visited they were basically all private visits -- but I went during COVID. Unlike the Vosges none of the hikes are really very long - it's maybe half an hour from the river to the top of the hill. Alternatively you could rent a bike - there's a safe, separated bike lane running along the Rhine (both sides I think? can't remember for sure), but unfortunately it's also like 1 meter from the main car road, so you'll be inhaling exhaust the entire time. I didn't personally find Koblenz nice or interesting fwiw, I think it must have been destroyed in WW2 and it was not really rebuilt with style like the smaller villages along the middle Rhine. The spot with the merger of the Moselle and Rhine is mildly interesting as the water colors are hugely different but since you're going by public transport it's a significant detour.
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Feb 23, 2022 09:06
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Rolo posted:Fantastic. Thanks again. Alright let's see how this turns out and I'll probably map out some ideas for the rest of the route tomorrow when I'm on a long train ride. Here's a map of Zurich and the best hiking or views in the area. Above the city, the Die Waid area on Kaferberg next to ETH's increasingly-main Honggerberg campus has the best view of the city by far - it looks like a little miniature city you'd find in a brilliant but obsessive billionaire's basement, like if Howard Hughes had been into making model cities. The views from the "Clouds" bar in Hardbrücke district and Jules Verne in the Bahnhofstrasse district are also great, and appreciably different from one another if you like views. There are also nice views directly at the lake of course. A little further, the main hike to the biggest hill above Zurich, the Uetliberg, can start from a number of places - the most common is from the Triemli hospital which is on Hiking Route #47, but there are other nice routes like from Albisgütli. Signage goes from good for the Route #47 hiking paths, to poor for the local paths like Albisgütli, to non-existent for the hardest routes (which are not really hard, but are steep enough to have fixed ropes). From the top, you can start/continue Hiking Route #47 which after Uetliberg, follows the ridge south, and then follows a stream to the city of Zug. This would take an entire day for a dedicated, fit person (~35km, 1000 m ascent/descent).  Hike #47 details: https://www.schweizmobil.ch/en/hiking-in-switzerland/routes/route-047.html I'd suggest bailing out at either Albis pass or Felsenegg, and then taking public transport to the Lucern area. To be continued! E: There aren't any other realistic options for hiking from Zurich towards Zermatt here; it's either this specific route, walking along the lake (which blows - too much traffic in way too many spots - and anyway it starts quickly to go in the wrong direction), or taking public transport from Zurich to somewhere more like Lucern directly. Saladman fucked around with this message at 09:53 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 09:50
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Alright here's some suggestions for the Lake Lucern area: The blue dashed lines are public transport, mostly either lifts or trains that run basically nonstop from 8-9am until 5-6pm (sometimes later), but e.g. the route from Gersau to Rigi Hochflue is a bus that only runs probably like 8x/day.  I would only do the Mount Rigi ("Rigi Kulm") hike if you want to go to the spa there, which does have an absolutely incredible view. The summit is just too easily accessible and will likely have thousands of foreign tourists screaming and throwing trash everywhere. It has great views, possibly the best in the area that also lets you see both north and south. Rigi Hochflue is a great "Alpine" hike (more difficult, potentially dangerous if you trip over your own feet or go in bad weather) and it too has unparalleled views of the area but it requires a little more planning to access by public transport, or a lot of relatively boring walking. Grosser Mythen, from Schwyz, is a super popular hike with Swiss, which you can either take the lift up 90% of the way or hike the whole way. Niederbauen Chulm is one of my favorite hikes in the area for its views, either a very long hike from Emetten, or you can hitchhike to the end of the valley going up to 1000m making it a moderate hike, or you can take the lift up to the parachute point at 1500m and then it's an easy hike to the top (~1900m) from there. Pilatus is just as famous as Rigi and also packed with foreign tourists, but the summit is more interesting and the hike is very difficult (very steep, quite long) so as soon as you're off the direct lift area of the summit, it will be nearly private. From here, you could follow Route #57 into the Bern Oberland. Stanserhorn is another site that is more popular with Swiss than foreign tourists, so it will be busy but it will be less aggressive in terms of people eating takeaway food and throwing their trash on the ground in front of you. It has a similar Volcano-like profile to Pilatus, although is a couple hundred m less, but it's a very steep and tiring hike. You can take a lift if you need a break, which I would call lazy for a day hike but not for a 10-12 day hike. You can follow Route #88 and #57 which are here the same down towards Melchsee Frutt, then cross over Hasliberg into the Bern Oberland. Route #57 would be somewhat slow after Melchsee Frutt -- check the Swiss Mobile app and follow any of the red-marked trails that would be more direct (imho) for instance going directly from Seefeldsee to Melchtalalp instead of doing the weird loop that the marked #57 trail does. The Rigi, Grosser Mythen, and Niederbauen hikes would all be self-contained single day hikes that you'd have to get to/from your next leg by public transport. The Pilatus and Stanserhorn hikes can be (would need to be) combined with a multi-day effort, unless you take the lifts up to the top at the start of the day and jog the entire way to the Bern Oberland at either Brunig Pass (if coming from Pilatus) or nearby Meiringen (if coming from Stanserhorn). Going up from Stans to Stanserhorn and then to Melchsee would be a long rear end day if you don't take the lift at the start and I don't see any mountain hotels or SAC huts along the way, so you'd either have to wild camp (totally OK), take the lift to start, or be more fit than I am. Alternately you could hike there and then down to Kerns which would be also quite long but not quite as rough. If you do the hike from Pilatus, there are some huts that I see on route #57 in that way, like the Tripolihütte. There is also a unnumbered ridgeline hike from Pilatus going by the Mittaggüpfi to the Triploihütte which is probably beautiful but probably harder since it follows the high ridge. I haven't done any of that route beyond Pilatus. There's another option too to get from this area to the Bern Oberland, going to Engelberg then going over Jochpass towards Melchsee-Frutt and then and over to Hasliberg then Meiringen (following Hiking Route #1 the entire day; could be done in one long day if starting in Engelberg first thing in the morning). I didn't highlight that here because I do think it's worth doing one of the hikes that actually overlooks Lake Luzern, which is probably the most beautiful large lake in Switzerland, with Lake Leman coming a close second. E: If you get tired while hiking, hitchhiking is normal in the mountains, especially if it's a route that's not served by a "post auto" bus, or if it's beyond the times those run (they rarely run past 4-5pm for dead-end roads that are really only used by hikers and the few locals). Even if it's a place that is served by public transport people will probably pick you up if you look tired and not like a murderer, and someone will definitely pick you up if it's stormy. English is ubiquitously spoken in Zurich, to the extent you can straight up just address someone in English without "sprechen Sie Englisch"ing at them first, but once you get into the mountains it's more of a dice roll and you should probably try in German if possible. Otherwise you can just gesticulate wildly and people will probably figure out what you want. Saladman fucked around with this message at 15:00 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 14:54
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Here's my suggestion for the Bern Oberland: The purple line is Hiking Route #1, mentioned before, which here cuts through the gooey touristic center of the Swiss Alps, particularly focused on the Jungfrau region between Lauterbrunnen and Grindelwald. There are not very many ways to cross the Alps from Bern to Valais -- I have shown all four possible passes in this region (each has small variants) and each would be a pretty full day's hike - not very far but it's a lot of vertical. The fifth line I drew is south of that chain and runs along the Alestsch Glacier (hike #39) which is impressive, if you have the time and energy for it and if you went the far east pass through Grimselpass (imho #40 is the worst route since it is within a few hundred meters of a reasonably busy road basically the entire time although I have only driven, not hiked, it). Route #1 is very long here, probably 4 days at a reasonably brisk pace. You can skip legs of it whenever you want, although keep in mind this won't save you much time, e.g. the last two passes at Lenk and Adelboden, it's like 3 hours to get from Lenk to Adelboden by public transport, and I can run from the end of the last bus stop in Lenk to the first bus in Adelboden in about 2.5 hours, so taking the train can literally be slower than jogging since it has to go around the universe to get from A to B, while you can walk directly. If lifts are running (and they should be), then this whole area is connected pretty well by ski lifts and you can skip legs pretty easily that way, with the only notable exceptions that I can think of being that there's no lift between Piz Gloria/Schilthorn and Oeschinensee/Kandersteg, and that there's no lift from Meiringen to Grindelwald at the start of the route as I've drawn it. I'd highly recommend doing some of Route 1 and then taking one of those 3 passes, of which Gemmipass is the easiest (by far) if you're tired by then. There's also a much harder route which is just to the west of Gemmipass that summits over the Schwarzhorn which I haven't done and then it cuts over to a place literally called the "Montagne du Sex" which I have been to, but it's been like 10 years. I haven't been to the south half of Valais since 2015 and I never really exhaustively hiked out any of it, so I won't make a post about that - I wouldn't really know much more than you can figure out by looking at the Suisse Mobile hiking app, e.g. taking Hiking Route #27 - or just taking the train direct to Zermatt and doing the famous hikes around there. Since you are already going to Zermatt i would suggest skipping the Jungfrau area (either going around by train entirely, or taking the lifts to skip through it quickly and taking a rest day but still getting scenery). There are surprisingly not all that many routes if you want to do through-hikes, I think I've pretty much covered all the major routes here from Zurich to central Valais, although there are often small variations here and there (e.g. like going over Schwarzhorn instead of Gemmipass) that make the day's hike easier or harder. I drew some of the public transport lines but not all of them - if you get too tired it's easy to take a breather, skip a leg, and continue when you feel better or when the weather clears up. In many of these places there are cool sites that would warrant time if the weather is lovely, e.g. the Lucern city, the Trummelbachfälle near Lauterbrunnen, skipping to Bern for a day or two while it rains in the mountains, whatever. You can easily leave the region and come back when things clear up – it'll just cost you like $40 each way on the train. Alternately if the weather is really poo poo in the Bern Oberland/central Alps area, you can check out way east in Graubunden (e.g. Saint Moritz) which usually has different weather, or down south in Ticino, which also usually has different weather. So anyway, download the Swiss Hiking App and/or look online. The legend is: Green highlighted line == main numbered hiking routes Red thin line == regular hiking routes (conceptually identical in every way to the numbered ones; no clue why they bother labeling them separately); these will be signposted regularly and are generally hard to get off of unless you are a terrible navigator Blue thin line == "Alpine" hiking route; steeper and potentially more dangerous than a red line Black dashed line == hiking routes that are probably more poorly maintained / less well signed, probably need to keep a closer eye on your GPS and route Black dotted line == similar, but even harder to follow Yellow lines == I've never noticed before. They look like very easy walking paths? Red straight, solid line, with red hollow dots == Lifts that are publicly accessible Black straight, solid line, with black hollow dots == Lifts that are not publicly accessible (e.g. military lifts, farmer lifts) Sometimes there are routes that look like hiking routes but end up being cow paths, and I've been tricked a couple times on black-lined routes, to find out it's not actually an unmarked walking path, but actually just where cows have been walking. /end of Effort Post. Saladman fucked around with this message at 17:03 on Feb 23, 2022 |
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Feb 23, 2022 16:51
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What's a good city to check out for a night while traveling from Amsterdam to Berlin by train? Hanover seems like the obvious option based on location, but should I make it a point to see Düsseldorf or Cologne instead if I only have one night? Would like to limit the number of transfers if possible.
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Feb 24, 2022 04:45
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