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Leon Sumbitches posted:A dead person can't subscribe and save though? The capitalist eventually will not need the labour of the common man to conduct his persuit of profit. I mean this bleed into climate but honestly if we can't get this under control reducing the resource consumption may be the other fascist option that will be pursued.
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Feb 6, 2022 19:34
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Main Paineframe posted:Looks like the algorithm hasn't identified a product that people are using to commit suicide. It's just noticing that a fair number of people buy certain things together, and suggesting that anyone who buys one of those things should also buy the other things. The algorithm has no idea these things are being used for suicide, and it's not treating them specially at all. It's sodium nitrate. It has too much normal use to get banned or restricted, but is niche enough a change could shift the recommendations
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Feb 6, 2022 20:10
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Baronash posted:There are aftermarket remote start systems, some of which even use your existing key fob. Indeed, however that's adding remote start system, not re-enabling the one the manufacturer disabled because they are trying to send a message.
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Feb 6, 2022 20:51
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Hm, yes, let's see... a tank of helium, 2 rolls of duct tape and an air tight duffel bag. Check. People Who Bought this Also Purchased: Ammo, rope, razor blades, knives, contractor bags, Dark Side of the Moon CD, Bible, ammonia, air fresheners Proceed to Checkout? Y/N? *ads for estate planners displayed* *No red flags raised by algorithm*
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Feb 6, 2022 21:06
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BiggerBoat posted:Hm, yes, let's see... a tank of helium, 2 rolls of duct tape and an air tight duffel bag. Check. The algorithm doesn't know what things are used for. How could it raise a red flag? However, it's the responsibility of Amazon to blacklist certain combinations of products/categories. Especially when it's an issue that's been raised within the platform already.
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Feb 6, 2022 23:36
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Kyte posted:The algorithm doesn't know what things are used for. How could it raise a red flag? The same way it determines and knows everything else I might want to buy or what my habits are. You just have to put as much as effort into identifying problematic combinations as you do "man, this buyer sure does purchase a lot rope and books on lynchings". So instead of automatically suggesting instructional manuals on building a gallows, maybe program it to identify serious issues like the article talked about. It was popping up suggestions for other products that help facilitate suicide. Yes? Not sure I follow you here.
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Feb 7, 2022 00:20
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BiggerBoat posted:The same way it determines and knows everything else I might want to buy or what my habits are. You just have to put as much as effort into identifying problematic combinations as you do "man, this buyer sure does purchase a lot rope and books on lynchings". So instead of automatically suggesting instructional manuals on building a gallows, maybe program it to identify serious issues like the article talked about. It was popping up suggestions for other products that help facilitate suicide. Yes? I am 99% certain the suggestion algorithm is much simpler than you think it is. It's just correlations between product IDs (and possibly their descriptive text), it doesn't have any understanding of the meaning of the products. If a number of people buy a bunch of products together, then the algorithm will consider them correlated (might do two or three degrees of separation, who knows) without understanding why they're being bought together. If it's a low-traffic product, then it'd need only a few purchases to influence the suggestions.
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Feb 7, 2022 01:29
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BiggerBoat posted:The same way it determines and knows everything else I might want to buy or what my habits are. You just have to put as much as effort into identifying problematic combinations as you do "man, this buyer sure does purchase a lot rope and books on lynchings". So instead of automatically suggesting instructional manuals on building a gallows, maybe program it to identify serious issues like the article talked about. It was popping up suggestions for other products that help facilitate suicide. Yes? Contrary to what Silicon Valley wants you to think, computers are incredibly stupid and the sorts of inferences and leaps of intuition that seem easy or even infantile to humans are completely beyond the capabilities of any computer, no matter how powerful. The computer cannot make value judgments, speculate on possibilities, or consider risks in any remotely human way. Ambiguity, interpretation, and empathy are completely beyond algorithms, no matter how seemingly elementary. If they weren't, many of the problems with the tech industry wouldn't be problems. tl;dr: nobody knows how to do this and algorithms are an unholy abomination
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Feb 7, 2022 04:08
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:As things get worse the ofference of suicide will get more prevalent. You'll just be able to buy kill yourself pills OTC because bezoz and the likes benefit from humans Killing themselves more frequently. Children of Men looking more likely every day, yeah yeah. Woolie Wool posted:Contrary to what Silicon Valley wants you to think, computers are incredibly stupid and the sorts of inferences and leaps of intuition that seem easy or even infantile to humans are completely beyond the capabilities of any computer, no matter how powerful. The computer cannot make value judgments, speculate on possibilities, or consider risks in any remotely human way. Ambiguity, interpretation, and empathy are completely beyond algorithms, no matter how seemingly elementary. If they weren't, many of the problems with the tech industry wouldn't be problems. Yeah, algorithms at best launder the biases of their designers. Otherwise they're basically the inhuman impulses of unfettered capitalism.
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Feb 7, 2022 04:49
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isnt this why the classic "Garbage In, Garbage Out" line of wisdom is said in the intro chapter of most CS/programming textbooks?
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Feb 7, 2022 05:15
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PhazonLink posted:isnt this why the classic "Garbage In, Garbage Out" line of wisdom is said in the intro chapter of most CS/programming textbooks? It's correctly doing the general & simple "After somebody buys Thing X, show them ads for stuff other Thing X-buyers also bought" it was intended to do. But whoops, people actually buy problematic combinations of stuff and that algorithm will faithfully parrot those combinations to new people. What they actually wanted was "show ads like that, except not for all these special case groupings which we may or may not have thought up yet" (which is also much much harder to do because now you need to care about what the things they are buying actually are instead of just keeping track of how opaque SKUs cluster together)
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Feb 7, 2022 07:57
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Reactive changes are still easy, just have a post process filter than removes known bad combination. Proactive checks are basically impossible though.
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Feb 7, 2022 08:55
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It's in Amazon's best interest to fix this issue, because people that have committed suicide do little to no repeat business at Amazon. This is the only reason why this will be addressed.
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Feb 7, 2022 09:24
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Sagacity posted:It's in Amazon's best interest to fix this issue, because people that have committed suicide do little to no repeat business at Amazon. This is the only reason why this will be addressed. I couldn't find any sodium nitrite when searching beyond curing salt that includes "X% sodium nitrite" in the title so I guess they did something. Kyte fucked around with this message at 10:06 on Feb 7, 2022 |
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Feb 7, 2022 09:26
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Sagacity posted:It's in Amazon's best interest to fix this issue, because people that have committed suicide do little to no repeat business at Amazon. This is the only reason why this will be addressed.
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Feb 7, 2022 09:32
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People killing themselves will affect the immediate quarterly profits, so they care. Amazon doesn't care about getting long term business seeing as no one can afford to have children, ensuring they won't have customers years from now. Hell, they're so anti-children they programmed Alexa to teach kids how to kill themselves.
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Feb 7, 2022 13:23
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As long as the profits don't dry up before Jeff dies, why would he care? 
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Feb 7, 2022 16:31
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Detective No. 27 posted:People killing themselves will affect the immediate quarterly profits, so they care. Amazon doesn't care about getting long term business seeing as no one can afford to have children, ensuring they won't have customers years from now. Hell, they're so anti-children they programmed Alexa to teach kids how to kill themselves. No they didn't, Alexa just did the google thing where it sifts through search results and answers based on whatever sounds related based on keywords. Sometimes those results are awful. Also, it relies on Bing. For the electrocution one, the kid asked for "a challenge" and Alexa returned with a TikTok challenge and those are like 10% legit 40% stupid and 50% self-destructive so it was just a matter of odds really. For the greater good one, the person asked about the cardiac cycle and Alexa returned with Wikipedia which had, at the moment, been vandalized. You can even see copycat vandalism in the page's history. E: some of you need to understand that, in the majority of cases, companies like Amazon aren't actively malicious, they just don't loving care. And their algorithms don't understand enough to be able to care either way.
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Feb 7, 2022 16:40
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malicious indifference is still malicious
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Feb 7, 2022 16:58
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I can not imagine this thread's reaction if the story was flipped. If instead of a totally dead simple neutral "people that by X also buy Y" got replaced by amazon scoring your mental health in some quantifiable way to try and decide if you are allowed to buy pork curing supplies or not.
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Feb 7, 2022 17:05
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You're right, Amazon is poo poo and evil no matter what they do. edit: it's almost as if capitalism was inherently evil
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Feb 7, 2022 17:13
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Owlofcreamcheese posted:I can not imagine this thread's reaction if the story was flipped. I'd be impressed by any toddler who could teach their Alexa to kill itself.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:07
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Tuxedo Gin posted:malicious indifference is still malicious It's not even indifference, the people building it probably care a lot about this kind of thing (even in the most cynical view because it causes bad PR). It's just impossible to predict what an open ended system that takes arbitrary inputs will do in all situations, especially since it is searching the internet for answers and the internet is constantly changing
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Feb 7, 2022 18:21
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Tuxedo Gin posted:edit: it's almost as if capitalism was inherently evil Is it even a capitalism thing? It seems like even under some sort of luxury space communism the website you got your free stuff on would still implement the functionality of "people that ordered this also ordered this". Like if you ordered a lot of gardening supplies it popping up "hey people that ordered a lot of geraniums also tend to order peonies" It seems like a broadly useful functionality for a website beyond a profit motive. Like even if all music is free I think people would still gravitate to a website that said "people that like this music often like this other music" It feels like the most neutral type of algorithm.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:36
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Foxfire_ posted:More that specifications are hard. And you just described how, without active malice, social media first turned into an echo chamber. At this point it's known so yeah, it's actual malice. But it started with the same very banal type of algos.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:48
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WAR CRIME GIGOLO posted:The capitalist eventually will not need the labour of the common man to conduct his persuit of profit. I mean this bleed into climate but honestly if we can't get this under control reducing the resource consumption may be the other fascist option that will be pursued. Now wait until people start being unable to live in parts of the planet, and the pressures involved in a sea of humanity trying to migrate somewhere, anywhere bette- ah poo poo, here we go again.
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Feb 7, 2022 18:54
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When I bought a sewing machine one of the recommended purchases was a copy of The Bell Jar, which made me laugh.
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Feb 7, 2022 19:06
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Detective No. 27 posted:I'd be impressed by any toddler who could teach their Alexa to kill itself. 
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Feb 7, 2022 23:21
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Petition to refer to NFT'S as "Nifty's" from now on
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Feb 8, 2022 06:13
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Hey Alexa, play Kobayashi Maru for your old boss.
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Feb 8, 2022 06:26
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More urban planning than tech but I find the idea of "superblocks" as implemented in Barcelona pretty interesting: https://theconversation.com/superblocks-barcelonas-car-free-zones-could-extend-lives-and-boost-mental-health-123295 The idea is to restructure cities so that the dependency on cars is reduced and citizens have more public space to interact, boosting physical and mental health.
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Feb 8, 2022 20:18
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Any type of multi-use zoning typically increases liveability by a bunch. Or are you interested _specifically_ in the Barcelona-style superblocks?
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Feb 8, 2022 20:20
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Mister Facetious posted:Petition to refer to NFT'S as "Nifty's" from now on Denied
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Feb 8, 2022 20:26
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Mister Facetious posted:Petition to refer to NFT'S as "Nifty's" from now on Hard pass
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Feb 8, 2022 20:26
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Sagacity posted:Any type of multi-use zoning typically increases liveability by a bunch. Or are you interested _specifically_ in the Barcelona-style superblocks? No, if you have other examples of multi-use zoning or "micro-cities" to show that would be cool.
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Feb 8, 2022 22:10
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quarantinethepast posted:More urban planning than tech but I find the idea of "superblocks" as implemented in Barcelona pretty interesting: these are just pedestrian zones quarantinethepast posted:The idea is to restructure cities so that the dependency on cars is reduced and citizens have more public space to interact, boosting physical and mental health. its not really restructuring anything, you're just closing some streets to motorized vehicular traffic partially or wholly to encourage pedestrianism. this is a great idea in general but its hard to do in a lot of places, either because the underlying land uses don't really support pedestrianism, or because demand for vehicular traffic is too high. one problem which is essential to negotiate is goods delivery - all those shops need trucks to deliver the stuff they sell, even if it means restricting trucks to off hours or weekday only trips. still, there are plenty of places which have just closed off a block or two to vehicles. encouraging pedestrianism and boosting the viability of pedestrianism through urban design is one of the goals of progressive urban planning this works incredibly well in barcelona due to a quirk of history - in 1714, the city of barcelona was punished by spanish king charles V for backing the losing dynasty in the war of the spanish succession. in addition to other punitive measures, barcelona was forbidden from growing beyond the medieval walls. the time between 1714 and the 1850s was marked by the growing industrial revolution, which generally lead to rapidly increasing urbanization worldwide - and which packed barcelona incredibly densely, to the point of the city being a filthy heap of people. when the restriction on growth was lifted in the mid 18th century, there was plenty of land to develop on. the spanish crown approved a highly formalized master plan, as was the vogue at the time. around this same time downtown paris was being demolished and rebuilt from the medieval mess it used to be to the highly regimented splendor it is now. paris and barcelona didn't just happen, they were very deliberately architected in some of the last gasps of monarchical authority leveraging industrial methods and technologies anyway, the new expansion of barcelona came in the form of extremely regular blocks, cut through by grand avenues. in addition, the blocks were balanced by height restrictions to promote uniformity and density without being overcrowded. this is a perfect setup to create numerous pedestrian free zones by simply designating certain streets off limits to traffic. seriously, here's a map - it is easy to identify the old medieval/early modern core of the city versus the new industrial era expansion  and like i said, there are plenty of other places where pedestrian zones are implemented, even in america (malls, when you think about it, are just purpose built pedestrian zones). but barcelona is uniquely suitable for this kind of quality of life ordinance Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 03:04 on Feb 9, 2022 |
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Feb 9, 2022 03:02
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https://twitter.com/mjtech01/status/1491180890365775872?s=19
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Feb 10, 2022 13:42
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I'm guessing they might've planned to pair a data-mining app with this at some point?
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Feb 10, 2022 14:23
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Ooh, that's good enough to install Doom on it... https://screenshot-media.com/the-future/science/neuralink-animal-abuse/ quote:Elon Musk’s Neuralink allegedly abuses monkeys as part of its brain implant experiments
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Feb 10, 2022 15:07
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Mister Facetious posted:Ooh, that's good enough to install Doom on it... So we shoved some probes in a monkey brain and shock of shocks, they don't like it. ..They don't like the non-shocking part too.
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Feb 10, 2022 15:18
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