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aperfectcirclefan posted:Nah thats fair and i'll do it. If they make a offer what should I say, "I need to think about this a bit more and consult with the wife"? I mean, if you're going to be evicted I'd say "I'll take it" and keep looking for a better job. Totally depends on what your BATNA is, and you should probably take this job if it's better than the alternative. You're the only one who can say if it is or not. However, if they offer I'd probably try to drive their price up and see where they go, or if you have a significantly better alternative you can just walk away.
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Jan 31, 2022 22:59
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aperfectcirclefan posted:No its as a full time employee. I forgot the best part, Huge red flag.
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Jan 31, 2022 23:16
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Yeah in retrospect it was kinda odd. He also said "we let you still contract so you'll be making up a majority of your pay through your ability to sti contract" or something along those lines lmao. I'm not desperate, and I'm actually interviewing with another company that same day. Both companies are in person though and would require a 1.5 hour commute each way 
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Jan 31, 2022 23:18
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aperfectcirclefan posted:Both companies are in person though and would require a 1.5 hour commute each way I would not take these jobs if I had any other option. They are effectively asking you to work an 11 hour day, every day, and only paying you for 8. And not even good rates for those 8 hours, by the sounds of it. Interview, get to the offer stage, then demand full remote and a reasonable pay, just to get practice with how much you can push in negotiating.
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Jan 31, 2022 23:53
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Jabor posted:I would not take these jobs if I had any other option. The second job would be more in the 70k range I believe so at least thats beneficial. I might try to talk them into a hybrid as a compromise.
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Jan 31, 2022 23:55
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aperfectcirclefan posted:The second job would be more in the 70k range I believe so at least thats beneficial. I might try to talk them into a hybrid as a compromise. ask for full remote. let the compromise come from them.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:11
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aperfectcirclefan posted:Nah thats fair and i'll do it. If they make a offer what should I say, "I need to think about this a bit more and consult with the wife"? yeah if you want to negotiate, there's no harm in getting the offer, taking a day to do some research (and telling them you need to think), then come back with a well-researched counter. that's what i did for my last company and ended up with 5k more and 5 more PTO days of course you could just counter right there on the spot too. either way is valid.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:13
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teen phone cutie posted:yeah if you want to negotiate, there's no harm in getting the offer, taking a day to do some research (and telling them you need to think), then come back with a well-researched counter. I'll take this tactic with the $20/hr job for sure. I'm interestd in the other one, yeah the commute sucks. Do you goons think they might actually compromise on being remote? Sorry for all the questions. I was employed with the same company all my life until I got let go so this is all new to me! 
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Feb 1, 2022 00:34
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It depends on the company. Some will, some won't budge. Is this your first dev job?
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Feb 1, 2022 00:37
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I've been self-employed as a developer and marketer for the past two years, although mostly in PHP and WordPress. It would be my first "official" development job, I guess.
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Feb 1, 2022 00:40
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You will most likely not be able to swing full remote as a newbie because middle and upper management is generally distrusting. But I absolutely wouldn’t accept either of those offers - that commute will grind you down. Of course if you really need the cash you gotta do what you gotta do, but I would definitely keep looking if you can.
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Feb 1, 2022 01:20
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bombed yet another live coding interview despite having 6 years experience doing what i do. and would have been able to solve the problem no sweat if i had more than 30 minutes to do it and wasn't being watched by 3 people. rejection letter just came in gotta love it.
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Feb 4, 2022 07:29
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teen phone cutie posted:bombed yet another live coding interview despite having 6 years experience doing what i do. and would have been able to solve the problem no sweat if i had more than 30 minutes to do it and wasn't being watched by 3 people. Same!!!!! It fuckin' sucks major big!!!! The time constraints don't really bother me, but I never really realized how badly being watched affects me until I started interviewing recently. 5 years and I'm just like "Uhhhhhhhhh what's the index argument for map??? Reduce does...gently caress, what, again???" It's killin' me, smalls.
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Feb 4, 2022 11:17
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Just try and keep in mind that there will always be another company. I bombed a simple interview and felt like an idiot but got a lot better when I began caring less. There's a lot less pressure when you act like it doesn't matter. I'm good at what I do and if some company wants to ask dumb questions or sniff their own farts during an interview then that sucks for them, not me. Interviewing is like dating.
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Feb 4, 2022 13:00
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I mean, yeah, but the worst part of every job I've ever had by a wide margin is having to interview for it. Every failed interview means I have to set up another one and ugh.
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Feb 4, 2022 13:26
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yeah i'm not that worried about it nor do i feel like an idiot. it's absolutely their loss. i'm just saying live interviewing is totally loving stupid and if you're one of those developers who thinks live coding is good because you "like to see how someone thinks" or say "the candidate does't *have* to solve the interview to get hired," you're probably lying and just regurgitating some poo poo you heard some other coworker say. at the end of the day, if someone solves it and another person doesn't, you're gonna hire the former unless they have a really crappy personality. honestly i wholeheartedly disagree with people who value live coding so much i actually would prefer not to work with those who think it's a good type of interview. it's specifically selecting for a certain type of person with minimal anxiety. e: ok i'm a little butthurt teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 20:21 on Feb 4, 2022 |
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Feb 4, 2022 18:43
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Live coding is valuable. Full on algo-hazing big tech live coding is often overkill(especially for the average dev job), but live coding in general is a reasonable way of judging both coding and communication skills. For live coding I usually prefer more debugging focused problems or ones that mimic a real task(add this feature to this thing) over algo problems. I've hired devs who didn't nail everything and not hired ones that did and how they think and problem solve is very important. For example I usually tried to weed out the ones who are just stubborn jerks about questions and feedback. Someone who can't even fake that through the 1 hour interview segment is going to be miserable to work with.
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Feb 5, 2022 00:18
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I had a candidate that was so impressive during the interview. He showed me a project he worked on that we didn't even ask of him where he discovered and hit one of our exposed APIs and built a page out of the data he found (I work in ecommerce). The position can be done by any junior dev using plain javascript. Based on his portfolio and projects he would have been an easy hire. I still decided to ask him a leetcode easy and thought he would ace that. I just wanted to see how he tackles a problem and codes through it. Turns out he was faking most of our interviews and couldn't walk through the issue. I decided to hold his hand and guide him through it but he still couldn't follow. Didn't even know how to split a string or see why that would help him get a solution. Live coding has been super helpful in weeding out candidates even if it sounds unnecessary or irrelevant to the position for me. I understand at higher levels maybe a system design might be more useful than showing me how to solve a graph problem but I still don't think coding challenges should be eliminated. For anyone here that's not great at this stuff, I took a coding interviewing bootcamp to help me through it. Was super helpful since I was really bad at all stages of the job hunt and really feared any type of interview. It was more useful to me than something like interviewing.io since it also provided a network, taught me how to approach the job hunt, how to answer the soft skills questions, plus plenty of live coding challenges.
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Feb 6, 2022 19:23
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Where was that boot camp? That sounds exactly what I need since I'm horrid at LeetCode type questions.
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Feb 7, 2022 04:37
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aperfectcirclefan posted:Where was that boot camp? That sounds exactly what I need since I'm horrid at LeetCode type questions. It's called Outco. I can send in a referral for you if you PM me your name and contact info, or if you just want to ask me anything about it.
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Feb 7, 2022 20:35
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i made it to the technical screening round for this one company. if i pass the tech screen, then i proceed to the virtual on-site--which is four loving hours of live coding HOMIE WHAT
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Feb 8, 2022 02:06
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durrneez posted:i made it to the technical screening round for this one company. if i pass the tech screen, then i proceed to the virtual on-site--which is four loving hours of live coding HOMIE WHAT Not unusual
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Feb 8, 2022 02:26
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durrneez posted:i made it to the technical screening round for this one company. if i pass the tech screen, then i proceed to the virtual on-site--which is four loving hours of live coding HOMIE WHAT my company does 4 hours of live coding. since being hired i've been begging that we don't do that, but nobody wants to hear it. developers just want to see you squirm and waste your time it's hopeless imo. it's not gonna change. developers are so wrapped up in spending more time watching someone code than having an actual conversation with words or pair programming a solution that you've had time to complete prior to the interview. go interview with a company who wants to get you onboarded instead of putting you through the ringer for a month, imo. seriously, it's totally loving broken teen phone cutie fucked around with this message at 02:58 on Feb 8, 2022 |
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Feb 8, 2022 02:56
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durrneez posted:i made it to the technical screening round for this one company. if i pass the tech screen, then i proceed to the virtual on-site--which is four loving hours of live coding HOMIE WHAT Be glad you didn’t have a phone screen before the tech screen! This is pretty bog standard, so as much as it sucks, buckle up and get used to it.
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Feb 8, 2022 05:03
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Harriet Carker posted:Be glad you didn’t have a phone screen before the tech screen! This is pretty bog standard, so as much as it sucks, buckle up and get used to it. i did have to do a phone screen. phone screens are fine. i smash behaviorals. but this one? drat son, luv2chat at someone while they're obviously not engaged in a conversation and more engaged in typing what i say verbatim. teen phone cutie posted:my company does 4 hours of live coding. since being hired i've been begging that we don't do that, but nobody wants to hear it. developers just want to see you squirm and waste your time yeah, what bugs me about their interview process is the 4 hours of live-coding ON TOP OF not meeting any of the engineers who i'd be working with. phone screen --> tech screen --> 4 hours of unpaid coding --> call with ceo and coo.
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Feb 8, 2022 09:25
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durrneez posted:i made it to the technical screening round for this one company. if i pass the tech screen, then i proceed to the virtual on-site--which is four loving hours of live coding HOMIE WHAT Better than four hours of behavioral interviewing horseshit.
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Feb 8, 2022 16:46
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durrneez posted:i did have to do a phone screen. phone screens are fine. i smash behaviorals. but this one? drat son, luv2chat at someone while they're obviously not engaged in a conversation and more engaged in typing what i say verbatim. Is it a 4 hour virtual onsite or a longer virtual onsite with 4 hours of coding? 4-5 hours is roughly what most of my onsites were in my most recent rounds but most were half or less coding. For example for my current job the onsite was a 1 hour algo/leetcode type thing, 1 hour of more regular work type coding(here's a project, add these features), 1 hour system design, 2 hours behavioral(one with a technical manager and the other with a product person). Most others were similarly laid out.
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Feb 8, 2022 17:06
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AlphaKeny1 posted:It's called Outco. I can send in a referral for you if you PM me your name and contact info, or if you just want to ask me anything about it. Sweet I'm going to do some research then I'll probably reach out to ya
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Feb 8, 2022 17:14
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4 hours live coding in person and anyone would reject me. Thank god I ever got a job.
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Feb 8, 2022 19:48
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Even just watching someone live code for four hours sounds miserable.
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Feb 8, 2022 21:16
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durrneez posted:yeah, what bugs me about their interview process is the 4 hours of live-coding ON TOP OF not meeting any of the engineers who i'd be working with. phone screen --> tech screen --> 4 hours of unpaid coding --> call with ceo and coo. don't be ridiculous. you get 10 minutes for questions - is that not enough for you to learn if you want the job or not?!?!
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Feb 8, 2022 21:19
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teen phone cutie posted:don't be ridiculous. you get 10 minutes for questions - is that not enough for you to learn if you want the job or not?!?! Is this serious? I've never seen a company not give the candidate as much time as they want to either talk to the manager or team members.
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Feb 9, 2022 00:05
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asur posted:Is this serious? I've never seen a company not give the candidate as much time as they want to either talk to the manager or team members. The interview slots only have so much baked in time for questions if it's a tech interview. If a candidate wants more time talking to people, they can reach out to their recruiter/HR and get more time scheduled for sure.
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Feb 9, 2022 00:17
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asur posted:Is this serious? I've never seen a company not give the candidate as much time as they want to either talk to the manager or team members. How many companies have you interviewed at? In dozens of interviews, I’ve only ever experienced getting about 5 minutes at the end of each 45 minute interview block to ask questions.
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Feb 9, 2022 00:23
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From the interviewer side, when we used to bring candidates in for a full day of interviewing, being the lunch escort was pretty explicitly the "this is where the candidate gets to ask a whole bunch of questions so be prepared to answer them" job. Now that interviews are happening fully remote, they're often not scheduled back-to-back any more. I'm happy to answer questions at the end until the candidate runs out of them even if it means going over time, I can't really speak to how other interviewers handle it.
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Feb 9, 2022 00:43
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Harriet Carker posted:How many companies have you interviewed at? In dozens of interviews, I’ve only ever experienced getting about 5 minutes at the end of each 45 minute interview block to ask questions. The lunch 'interview' was almost ubiquitous pre-covid and would have been around an hour to ask questions though that isn't what I meant. I meant after you've interviewed and if the company is moving forward with an offer then you can ask to talk to the manager or team members, if they don't offer it in some capacity. I've never had a company say no and it's not uncommon for the company to explicitly offer it if you're hesitant about the offer. You can probably even extend this to talk to other people as long as you can justify it and it doesn't seem absurd if that would help you make a decision.
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Feb 9, 2022 01:38
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asur posted:The lunch 'interview' was almost ubiquitous pre-covid and would have been around an hour to ask questions though that isn't what I meant. I meant after you've interviewed and if the company is moving forward with an offer then you can ask to talk to the manager or team members, if they don't offer it in some capacity. I've never had a company say no and it's not uncommon for the company to explicitly offer it if you're hesitant about the offer. You can probably even extend this to talk to other people as long as you can justify it and it doesn't seem absurd if that would help you make a decision. Ahh I see. That makes sense and I agree should be standard. If a company doesn’t offer this when asked for it is a big red flag.
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Feb 9, 2022 02:10
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I would be freaking ecstatic if a employer would let me spend time even an afternoon on-site hanging out with potential co-workers. I'd rather see what people's day to day looks like rather then some HR Drone talking about whatever or a simple one hour interview.
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Feb 9, 2022 02:33
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I don't do initial screens, so I see candidates during the system design / architecture bullshitting part of the interview cycle. I usually set aside the last 20 minutes of the time for the candidate to ask me questions. I also start it by saying "you can ask me anything you want, I will answer truthfully and I will not repeat any of your questions to managers or the interview panel". It's probably not a smart thing for me to do but candidates like it and I'm actually forthright in my responses. I also do it whether or not I'm the only interviewer cause if my fellow interviewer is a loving snitch I wanna know that, too.
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Feb 9, 2022 03:49
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chglcu posted:Better than four hours of behavioral interviewing horseshit. 4 hours is a fuckin' lot, but man those turned out to be wildly important. People talked down to our indian/female coworkers like it was a rule they had to follow. Never challenged us white guys on anything. Absolutely buck wild to me that people can't just rein it in for like 20 minutes.
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Feb 10, 2022 07:19
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